Jokic is not the best in the world, and has been heavily overrated (NOW YOU CAN CHANGE VOTES)

[durden_tyler]

Still the best big in the world. And should be atop that list next 3-5 years (depends if he’s still interested in basketball).


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[JustBuzzin]

Still the best big in the world. And should be atop that list next 3-5 years (depends if he’s still interested in basketball).


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He's still the best player in basketball. He's just not invincible like everyone thought.

[Alatan]

Jokic needs a mobile PF that protects the rim and can hit a corner three. AG tries but he is too short for the role. He also needs a reliable PnR partner that can shoot and dribble penetrate. Not a Jekyll/Hyde player he has now. It would also help having a reliable 3 point threat on the perimeter instead of whatever MPJ is. And finally he needs a point of attack 3nd player in the mold of KCP.

Denver FO got 1 out of 4 players you need to win with Jokic.

[shza]

Let's put it this way, if it were Embiid, would you be defending him if he had the exact same stats?

If he'd played well throughout and the game was largely lost by his teammates, then yes.

He played well, but his poor shooting shows that he wasn't all there.

I'd say it's probably more a combination of his teammates than him for why they lost obviously, but the internet annointing someone the next GOAT with only 1 chip, and 3 MVPS, where 2 wee heavily contested was just gross.

Oof, post so thirsty. Sorry Joel can’t stay healthy.

[MavsDirk41]

Not really, just will be glad to see all these threads about him being the GOAT finally die. You can't lost a game 7 up 20, and have that on your resume.

I'm just excited that the Sixers have some assetts this summer to put an actual team around Embiid. Nuggets will need to decide what to do with Murray/MPJ because theyr'e in trouble.

Who said Jokic is the “goat” lol? Best player in the league? Yea! But nobody was seriously saying he is the greatest.

He’s not the best player in the league. Naz reid stole
His lunch money today .

Not sure who you think is better. Luka is top 3 or 4. Same with SGA. Embiid cant stay healthy. Neither can Giannis.

[Wallace_Wallace]

jokic is great, stop being stupid. shaq didnt win every year even if he had a healthy kobe and dwade. duncan didn't win every year even when he had a healthy ginobili and parker. if u can't watch the game and realize how skilled of a player jokic is, u need to stop having opinions and study more.

bruh Shaq went back to back to back. Jokic can’t even sniff anywhere close to that because he’s too busy putting up empty calorie stats

Jokic won with Jamal Murray.

This might be a crazy take but I’m sure he could win with Kobe too.

He probably could’ve won with Hardaway, Wade or a prime LeBron when Jokic is this imaginary 35 year old player.

Maybe he could snatch Wade’s finals MVP, Erick Dampier/Desagana Diop is BBQ chicken

[Wallace_Wallace]

The NBA is extremely talented. Tim Duncan didn't win a chip every single year. Jokic is still great and will bounce back, this lost does not take away from his greatness. At least he has 1 ring, most NBA players and stars even can't say that.

Duncan met or exceeded expectations every year of his prime (from 98 to 07). Jokic has not. This was a big fail.

Didn’t Dirk Nowitzki went to his house and stole game 7 in 2006 as well as closing another series in 2009 (vise versa, Duncan got him a couple times as well)? Respect both of them as much as anyone in history, but everyone has failed at some point.

[1993Playoffs]

Why are guys just assuming that Jokic will bounce back?

He may never reach a WCF or win anything ever again. No one knows.

[Chessboxer]

I never considered him the best. Top 3 absolutely, but not the undisputed best. I was never swayed by the analytics cult either. He had one of the easiest title runs ever, playing 3 play in teams, including an injured 8seed in the finals. He has yet to beat a 50 win team in the playoffs.

He is a supremely skilled big man profiting off the lack of real big men/low post defenders in the modern guard heavy NBA.

[Cubbies2120]

He's great, it's just the talk of putting him up there along with MJ is dumb. He's probably on pace to be in the top 10 all time discussion though.

Show me anyone in the top 10 who has never played with an all-star, all-NBA, or all-D teammate in their career. You can't. Most had the privilege of having 1-2 all-stars in their prime + one or two elite defenders and KG was the "closest" comparison and even he had 2 all-star teammates by their 8th season.

Jokic had Jamal Murray (souped up Jamal Crawford) and MPJ (equal to Tobias Harris) and managed to eeke out a title. It's time for him to demand changes and get a superstar or two around him. Hell, Embiid has been surrounded by 3-4 superstars in his career and hasn't gone even one season without an all-star teammate since what, 2017?

[ChipotleWest]

He's great, it's just the talk of putting him up there along with MJ is dumb. He's probably on pace to be in the top 10 all time discussion though.

Show me anyone in the top 10 who has never played with an all-star, all-NBA, or all-D teammate in their career. You can't. Most had the privilege of having 1-2 all-stars in their prime + one or two elite defenders and KG was the "closest" comparison and even he had 2 all-star teammates by their 8th season.

Jokic had Jamal Murray (souped up Jamal Crawford) and MPJ (equal to Tobias Harris) and managed to eeke out a title. It's time for him to demand changes and get a superstar or two around him. Hell, Embiid has been surrounded by 3-4 superstars in his career and hasn't gone even one season without an all-star teammate since what, 2017?

Blah blah nobody cares about excuses.

[One_and_Done]

The NBA is extremely talented. Tim Duncan didn't win a chip every single year. Jokic is still great and will bounce back, this lost does not take away from his greatness. At least he has 1 ring, most NBA players and stars even can't say that.

Duncan met or exceeded expectations every year of his prime (from 98 to 07). Jokic has not. This was a big fail.

dude has 3 MVPs !!! how has he not met expectations ?!!!!!! Duncan didn't make it to the WCF every single year lol what are you even saying ?!

Exceeding expectations is based on what you should have done given the talent around you. Duncan did that every year. The only reason he didn't make it to the WCF almost every year was because the seeding system was broken when he played.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Jokic as of now is still the best player in the world.

But the people who were saying the gap was insane and it hasn't been this big since LeBron now look dumb.

Its hard for me to see Tatum or Edwards taking the crown of best in the world just yet. MAYBE Luka.

[One_and_Done]

The NBA is extremely talented. Tim Duncan didn't win a chip every single year. Jokic is still great and will bounce back, this lost does not take away from his greatness. At least he has 1 ring, most NBA players and stars even can't say that.

Duncan met or exceeded expectations every year of his prime (from 98 to 07). Jokic has not. This was a big fail.

Didn’t Dirk Nowitzki went to his house and stole game 7 in 2006 as well as closing another series in 2009 (vise versa, Duncan got him a couple times as well)? Respect both of them as much as anyone in history, but everyone has failed at some point.

Duncan had a worse support cast in 06, and would have won if not for Manu fouling on the final play. Duncan went into God mode that series, he wasn't to blame. 09 Duncan wasn't in his prime any more.

[kveble]

Why are guys just assuming that Jokic will bounce back?

He may never reach a WCF or win anything ever again. No one knows.

Maybe because he's the best player in the league, is pretty much always healthy(enough to play at elite level) and always delivers.

If he has decent team around him, he's going to be a threat at least for the next 5-6 years, if he wants to.

He might not be the best player in the league for long though. Ant, Vic and Co. are coming fast. But he is still going to be a major threat.

[TinmanZBoy]

He is the best player in the league right now... otherwise, who is...
but being a historically great, he is not as clutch as others

[Wallace_Wallace]

Duncan met or exceeded expectations every year of his prime (from 98 to 07). Jokic has not. This was a big fail.

Didn’t Dirk Nowitzki went to his house and stole game 7 in 2006 as well as closing another series in 2009 (vise versa, Duncan got him a couple times as well)? Respect both of them as much as anyone in history, but everyone has failed at some point.

Duncan had a worse support cast in 06, and would have won if not for Manu fouling on the final play. Duncan went into God mode that series, he wasn't to blame. 09 Duncan wasn't in his prime any more.

The Spurs had the best record in the West (63-19) with the core of Duncan/Ginobili/Parker, the same core won the chip the year after. As a preference, I personally would take Duncan/Ginobili/Parker over Nowitzki/Josh Howard/Jason Terry. If it helps, this was also the year the Suns ran the whole season without Amare Stoudimare (more of a legitimate reason for them not winning).

Again, I respect these two legends as much as anyone (let me add Ginobili as well), but everyone has failed expectations at some point.

[Mephariel]

He's great, it's just the talk of putting him up there along with MJ is dumb. He's probably on pace to be in the top 10 all time discussion though.

Show me anyone in the top 10 who has never played with an all-star, all-NBA, or all-D teammate in their career. You can't. Most had the privilege of having 1-2 all-stars in their prime + one or two elite defenders and KG was the "closest" comparison and even he had 2 all-star teammates by their 8th season.

Jokic had Jamal Murray (souped up Jamal Crawford) and MPJ (equal to Tobias Harris) and managed to eeke out a title. It's time for him to demand changes and get a superstar or two around him. Hell, Embiid has been surrounded by 3-4 superstars in his career and hasn't gone even one season without an all-star teammate since what, 2017?

Jamal Murray is a big time playoff performer though. But at the end of the day, I don't care who your teammates were. Don't compare someone to Jordan when you only have 1 ring.

[UglyBugBall]

Where are all the Jokic fans now? LOL

[UglyBugBall]

I've been saying this since his first mvp. He's an incredible system player, but he lacks competitive fire and toughness to be an ATG player. His MVP as a 6 seed will be locked at as THE worst mvp season in history. It'll make the Rose and Nash wins seem unanimous.

Jokic is a guy that needs a superstar like Murray to make his game work. He can't take over without that second punch on the perimeter the way other ATGs could. Now that Murray has been exposed, so has Jokic. What's funny is that those really watching told you this year's ago when he only got the sixth seed without him.

To me he is the third best player in the NBA - Luka and Embiid are comfortably ahead of him. Last year he took advantage of an injured field, and a weakened conference in a transition year. He had Murray playing like a superstar and to his credit got it done. But his awards don't match his greatness and in a few years everyone will come around to what I'm saying here right now.

as a great PASSING great big he is only one of TWO, and that other was bill walton
a great big who passes great is rarer than rare. they change everything. they don't come along in a generation - they are rarer than that. that's two in FIVE DECADES

He's a great passing big. So what? Doesn't make him anymore historic than Westbrook who was a great rebounding guard. He might be an ATG passer, but he's not an ATG player.