Post#1018 » by hardenASG13 » Mon May 20, 2024 12:04 pm
So..........yeahhhh.
I don't want to kick a guy when he's down, and let me preface this by saying Jokic is likely one of the best players in the league right now, if not the best.
BUT........Ya’ll talked so much crap to me and alot of other posters here all year, calling us stupid, unintelligent, not understanding of what we were seeing all because Jokic and Denver (Murray 26/7/6 in last years run) won a title last year.
I tried countless times to point out how weak the competition last year was. Pointed out how nobody Denver beat was as good as Minnesota, OKC, Boston, etc. this season, and thatd this would prove much more than anything last year. And it sure did.
It's not like Jokic is suddenly a bad player because he didn't win the title this year. But I've been told, repeatedly and with incredible smugness all season he was playing the best basketball we've ever seen, that he's comparable to prime LeBron and MJ! So with that, it's not that he didn't win another title, those are hard to win.....it's that he lost in the second round, with homecourt, to a team who had never been to the second round before, and blew a 20 point 2nd half lead to lose convincingly! All against the First quality opponent he faced in the last two years. GOATs dont do that. Post his stats all you want. He had 2 MVP level games out of 7. He wasn't able to take over last night at all, and shot the ball poorly. That godlike passing disappeared vs a good defense that took away alot of the cuts off him where he racks up assists on DHOs. He had a bunch of rebounds last night, mostly in the first half when Minnesota couldn't make a shot. Didn't rebound outside his area really at all, cleans up under the rim on misses. Andre Drummond can do that.
As I've said all along about this GOAT talk all season, it was premature annointing. He's got some flaws for a GOAT. Namely (watch how I do this without just posting a bunch of random advanced stats)
- for a guy who plays outside alot at the top of the key, his handle is weak. He rarely dribbles while covered in the half court, just backs in from the foul line area without facing the defense. That can only get you so far against a quality opponent, especially when your team is relying on you to score and break down the defense.
- As a rebounder, he's an elite position rebounder and great at boxing out, very physical. But he doesn't rebound outside his area (pursuing the ball) very well, and isn't overwhelming getting rebounds in traffic.
- His defense.....ugh. He got burned badly when his guy was crashing in for athletic put back dunks toward the end last night. He is in fact slow on that end, and and not being fast or able to jump high was a problem for him and Denver in this series. They enjoyed the layup line when they got past the perimeter defender/top of the zone like defense Denver resorted to, to try to prevent the layup line at the rim. He's a much worse defender than alot of the GOATs, especially big men, that he's compared to here. Then you have Lebron and MJ who were on a whole different planet than him defensively too.
- Lastly, Winning. They beat 0 quality teams last year (name one if you disagree). Again, we're not crushing him today because he lost in the finals or something. He lost in the second round, vs. a team making it's second round debut, on his homecourt, in embarrassing fashion. This was the first quality opponent faced in the last two seasons, and, gone!
These flaws were pointed out repeatedly by a few posters that didn't mind the arrogant attacks by this sites Jokics supporters all season. For guys to enter the GOAT debate, they need to beat quality playoff opponents repeatedly, show they can take over series repeatedly, be better two way players and quite frankly, look better than that. Doesn't face a defender with a live dribble or have the legs to post up all game (like Shaq). Leadership is questionable (doesn't bring energy, blew a 20 point 2nd half lead in a game 7, at home), and he simply hasn't proved enough to put him in those conversations. That was a rush job, prisoner of the moment stuff, all for beating an injured .500 twolves team last season (Edwards wasn't the same player, minus Reid and Mcdaniels), a Suns team who as we can see isn't/wasn't very good, an old Lakers team who isnt/wasn't very good, and the 8 seed heat, who rode hot shooting and a few injuries (Giannis, Tatum) to a finals they had no business being in. That wasn't a historical accomplishment, and as I've said, many players with 0 rings have beaten better playoff opponents.
He's a great player, but yall annointed him(in a smug, demeaning fashion) wayyy too quickly, which is what myself and a few others have been trying to tell you. 0 playoff series wins against a quality opponent (1 if you count the bubble clippers in front of 0 fans) doesn't make you a GOAT candidate, no matter how many MVPs you have because the analytics said so. He's going to be 30 next year. There are real flaws to his game that a good eye test can see that aren't encompassed when calculating his EPM, LEBRON RAPTOR Rapm score.
