Jokic's teammates failed him...AGAIN.

[Froob]

I'm sorry, but you're up 20 at home in the third quarter, you're the MVP, best player in the league. You can't lose that game. LeBron and Steph would be getting KILLED. Jokic is awesome, probably top 15 player all time. But, he has to be criticized if people want him to be in the goat debate. You can't lose that game, period.

[Johnny Bball]

How does he need more help than having a previous championship roster?

This year's roster is meaningfully weaker than last years. That's been a talking point since the summer. That's literally been the most discussed thing about the Nuggets all year is how they could figure out this bench and improve because without doing so most of us thought this would happen.

As usual, you missed the entire point.

[dhsilv2]

I'm sorry, but you're up 20 at home in the third quarter, you're the MVP, best player in the league. You can't lose that game. LeBron and Steph would be getting KILLED. Jokic is awesome, probably top 15 player all time. But, he has to be criticized if people want him to be in the goat debate. You can't lose that game, period.

Can't we just take all the bad takes on all greats, herd up all the people, and push them off the planet? Not that you can't criticize Jokic, he could have played better. But it's a team game. It would be a breath of fresh air if more people started treating it as such.

Saying that you want all players to be insulted and blamed by low IQ fans and the absolute human fecal matter that makes up ESPN is just silly. We don't need more trolls bringing up the 2011 finals with Lebron, who can't even explain what a zone defense is. Or why the Mav's defense played a key role in their win in that series. Or people who can't grasp that Curry's gravity was a real thing. Or that Jokic's teammates need to hit some shots when open. That you can't have everyone but 2 players have more fouls than points in a half of basketball.

[dhsilv2]

How does he need more help than having a previous championship roster?

This year's roster is meaningfully weaker than last years. That's been a talking point since the summer. That's literally been the most discussed thing about the Nuggets all year is how they could figure out this bench and improve because without doing so most of us thought this would happen.

As usual, you missed the entire point.

You don't make points by making false statements.

[Bergmaniac]

This is so tiresome. Every time a star loses his biggest fans claim his teammates suck and failed him and his haters overrate his teammates to make him look good.

[Wingy]

The LeBronification of Jokic

So he’s going to push himself to Dallas, or perhaps OKC?

[Johnny Bball]

This year's roster is meaningfully weaker than last years. That's been a talking point since the summer. That's literally been the most discussed thing about the Nuggets all year is how they could figure out this bench and improve because without doing so most of us thought this would happen.

As usual, you missed the entire point.

You don't make points by making false statements.

You're such a waste of time. There's a question mark. When is a question a statement.

Like I said... didn't even get the point.

[dhsilv2]

As usual, you missed the entire point.

You don't make points by making false statements.

You're such a waste of time. There's a question mark. When is a question a statement.

Like I said... didn't even get the point.

and this is why we can't have nice things folks.

[Ambrose]

Yeah, this is obvious.

Jokic didn't play amazing by any means, but he played well enough to win.

MPJ literally apologized for his play. Non-Murray guys combined for 21 points, and a lot of their misses were wide open. But that's basketball, anything can happen in game 7, which is why you don't want it to get there.

[basketballRob]

It was pretty embarrassing that none of his teammates were taking shots. They kept throwing him the ball back to him. AG had the ball a few times on the 3-pt line with no one around and never looked at the basket.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[tsherkin]

This is so tiresome. Every time a star loses his biggest fans claim his teammates suck and failed him and his haters overrate his teammates to make him look good.

Jokic's third quarter was rough. The supporting cast was brutal.

Jokic also played 47 minutes, shot 11/18 inside the arc, smashed the boards on either end and routinely couldn't get guys to buy a bucket on his passes. There's a limit to what you can do. Murray also sucked in the third and they had no bench contribution of consequence. He had a very good overall game, but Denver just couldn't get it done in the second half and Minnesota woke up offensively after the half.

Yes, Jokic didn't have a Lebron-Game-6-vs-Boston game. But he's been carrying this squad through this series while Murray has sucked. As has MPJ. As has Reggie Jackson. You don't one-man-vs a team playing the way Minny was playing. They needed to have put this away in Game 6, or not have crapped themselves to open the series, and neither of those things happened.

Denver is not a dynastic-level roster; those are comprised of better depth and secondary punch. It is what it is. But yeah, that aside, Jokic's scoring in the 3rd quarter was also rough, and that hurt them. But like, that's equivalent to complaining about Jordan in 88 versus the Pistons.

29 and 36 to open the series. Then 24, 23 and 26 (on 40%, 50% and 45.5% FG) to close the series in 3 straight Pistons wins. We don't hear about that a lot because of what happened later in his career. Or Kareem pre-Magic in L.A. They took their lumps at the time, as will Jokic now, but ultimately it's more about the team not showing up than the focal star.

In so many threads, people are hunting for reasons to push back against Jokic, which gets frustrating. They're acting like this is 84 Tragic Johnson, or Bird against Philly in 82 (or Milwaukee in 83), and it's not.

[Sedale Threatt]

I'm sorry, but you're up 20 at home in the third quarter, you're the MVP, best player in the league. You can't lose that game. LeBron and Steph would be getting KILLED. Jokic is awesome, probably top 15 player all time. But, he has to be criticized if people want him to be in the goat debate. You can't lose that game, period.

Can't we just take all the bad takes on all greats, herd up all the people, and push them off the planet? Not that you can't criticize Jokic, he could have played better. But it's a team game. It would be a breath of fresh air if more people started treating it as such.

Saying that you want all players to be insulted and blamed by low IQ fans and the absolute human fecal matter that makes up ESPN is just silly. We don't need more trolls bringing up the 2011 finals with Lebron, who can't even explain what a zone defense is. Or why the Mav's defense played a key role in their win in that series. Or people who can't grasp that Curry's gravity was a real thing. Or that Jokic's teammates need to hit some shots when open. That you can't have everyone but 2 players have more fouls than points in a half of basketball.

I can't remember the game or even the player, but I was watching an NFL postgame show about 10 or 15 years ago and some QB put up huge numbers in a close loss. The panel is talking entirely about what he failed to do, when an extremely irritated Bill Cowherd cut in and said, look, I'm not going to blame the guy who did his job compared to the ones who didn't.

That's Jokic. There was a nuclear level he could have gotten to -- he didn't go for 40/20, bury him -- or at least he could have shot better on 3s. But he absolutely played well enough for them to win that game, and the rest of the team outside of Murray (who had a terrible series) collectively sht the bed. Like how is this even being debated right now when the entire group outside of those two scored 21 points on horrendous shooting? How?

It just shows how dumb most sports debates really are. Jokic was the best player in last night's game and the best player in the series. Anthony Edwards, in contrast, suffered a hero-baller nightmare, but he had five teammates score in double-figures and the Wolves played incredible defense in the second half.

His supporting cast stepped up -- frequently the difference in championship runs -- Jokic's didn't and that was that.

[life_saver]

1. Jokic is not prime MJ or Lebron. He’s going to be an All Timer, but his playoff resume is lacking, especially considering competition. He’s yet to beat a 50 win team.

2. This is less about the Nuggets role players failing and more about Minnesota just having that great of a defense. Shift the Nuggets blame to Timberwolves appreciation.

3. Games like this are when a guy like Porter is supposed to step up. He needs to play like an All Star for this team to really thrive.

man...that 50 win team is very misleading. In 2020, both Clippers & Jazz were 50 pace win teams...Clippers were on track to win 55-57 games but there were no 82 games due to covid. Last year's Suns team they beat was better than lot of 50 win teams that we have seen

[Infinite Llamas]

I'm sorry, but you're up 20 at home in the third quarter, you're the MVP, best player in the league. You can't lose that game. LeBron and Steph would be getting KILLED. Jokic is awesome, probably top 15 player all time. But, he has to be criticized if people want him to be in the goat debate. You can't lose that game, period.

Jokic hasn’t been criticized? Take a look at the GB front page lol.

[life_saver]

I know people are generally blaming Nuggets bench but I don't think they were the reason they lost series..Nuggets actually lost the starting lineup minutes in most of the series. Nuggets bench did better than what was expected of them...Wolves bench also didn't do a ton...Kyle Anderson was disaster, NAW struggled. Naz also was on and off..even yesterday, Naz was quite bad in first half, he came alive in 2nd half only.

Read on Twitter

[Nuntius]

This is so tiresome. Every time a star loses his biggest fans claim his teammates suck and failed him and his haters overrate his teammates to make him look good.

Jokic's third quarter was rough. The supporting cast was brutal.

Jokic also played 47 minutes, shot 11/18 inside the arc, smashed the boards on either end and routinely couldn't get guys to buy a bucket on his passes. There's a limit to what you can do. Murray also sucked in the third and they had no bench contribution of consequence. He had a very good overall game, but Denver just couldn't get it done in the second half and Minnesota woke up offensively after the half.

Yes, Jokic didn't have a Lebron-Game-6-vs-Boston game. But he's been carrying this squad through this series while Murray has sucked. As has MPJ. As has Reggie Jackson. You don't one-man-vs a team playing the way Minny was playing. They needed to have put this away in Game 6, or not have crapped themselves to open the series, and neither of those things happened.

Denver is not a dynastic-level roster; those are comprised of better depth and secondary punch. It is what it is. But yeah, that aside, Jokic's scoring in the 3rd quarter was also rough, and that hurt them. But like, that's equivalent to complaining about Jordan in 88 versus the Pistons.

29 and 36 to open the series. Then 24, 23 and 26 (on 40%, 50% and 45.5% FG) to close the series in 3 straight Pistons wins. We don't hear about that a lot because of what happened later in his career. Or Kareem pre-Magic in L.A. They took their lumps at the time, as will Jokic now, but ultimately it's more about the team not showing up than the focal star.

In so many threads, people are hunting for reasons to push back against Jokic, which gets frustrating. They're acting like this is 84 Tragic Johnson, or Bird against Philly in 82 (or Milwaukee in 83), and it's not.

This. Jokic and Murray both had a rough 3rd quarter but they were also the only two Nuggets who did anything offensively. The rest of the Nuggets didn't do anything on the offensive end. 21 points on 8/28 shooting is bad. Really, really bad.

Allow me to illustrate how bad it was by comparing it to what we saw in the other game 7:

Josh Hart (playing through an abdominal injury), Precious Achiuwa and Miles McBride scored 22 points on 9/30 shooting. And that's just 3 players. That's a guy who probably shouldn't be playing (Hart), a back-up big (Achiuwa) and a guard on a rookie contract (McBride). Those 3 should NOT be matching the offensive production of every single Nuggets player other than Jokic and Murray. Aaron Gordon and MPJ are part of that rest of the Nuggets group.

Hell, Alec Burks outscored that entire rest of the Nuggets group on his own. He was really damn good with 26 points on 8/13 shooting.

Jokic and Murray definitely deserve criticism for the loss. After all, the Nuggets did collectively blow what was a 15-point lead at half time in a game 7 at home. But basketball is still a team game and it's pretty obvious that the rest of the team failed to produce offensively.

[Nuntius]

I know people are generally blaming Nuggets bench but I don't think they were the reason they lost series..Nuggets actually lost the starting lineup minutes in most of the series. Nuggets bench did better than what was expected of them...Wolves bench also didn't do a ton...Kyle Anderson was disaster, NAW struggled. Naz also was on and off..even yesterday, Naz was quite bad in first half, he came alive in 2nd half only.

Read on Twitter

It was not just the bench, imo. It was the rest of Denver's starters outside of Jokic and Murray. Aaron Gordon had 4 points on 2/5 shooting in an elimination game. That's comparable to that Tobias Harris performance in game 6 earlier this year. MPJ had 7 points on 3/12 shooting. KCP had 5 points on 2/7 shooting.

Aaron Gordon and KCP combined for a total of 82 minutes and scored a total of 10 points on 4/12 shooting. The Nuggets lost by 8. If the Nuggets just got a little bit more offensive production from their other 3 starters, they could have won.

Minny, on the other hand, had every single starter in double-digits. It's a team game. Minny was able to produce as a team. Denver wasn't.

[tsherkin]

This is so tiresome. Every time a star loses his biggest fans claim his teammates suck and failed him and his haters overrate his teammates to make him look good.

Jokic's third quarter was rough. The supporting cast was brutal.

Jokic also played 47 minutes, shot 11/18 inside the arc, smashed the boards on either end and routinely couldn't get guys to buy a bucket on his passes. There's a limit to what you can do. Murray also sucked in the third and they had no bench contribution of consequence. He had a very good overall game, but Denver just couldn't get it done in the second half and Minnesota woke up offensively after the half.

Yes, Jokic didn't have a Lebron-Game-6-vs-Boston game. But he's been carrying this squad through this series while Murray has sucked. As has MPJ. As has Reggie Jackson. You don't one-man-vs a team playing the way Minny was playing. They needed to have put this away in Game 6, or not have crapped themselves to open the series, and neither of those things happened.

Denver is not a dynastic-level roster; those are comprised of better depth and secondary punch. It is what it is. But yeah, that aside, Jokic's scoring in the 3rd quarter was also rough, and that hurt them. But like, that's equivalent to complaining about Jordan in 88 versus the Pistons.

29 and 36 to open the series. Then 24, 23 and 26 (on 40%, 50% and 45.5% FG) to close the series in 3 straight Pistons wins. We don't hear about that a lot because of what happened later in his career. Or Kareem pre-Magic in L.A. They took their lumps at the time, as will Jokic now, but ultimately it's more about the team not showing up than the focal star.

In so many threads, people are hunting for reasons to push back against Jokic, which gets frustrating. They're acting like this is 84 Tragic Johnson, or Bird against Philly in 82 (or Milwaukee in 83), and it's not.

This. Jokic and Murray both had a rough 3rd quarter but they were also the only two Nuggets who did anything offensively. The rest of the Nuggets didn't do anything on the offensive end. 21 points on 8/28 shooting is bad. Really, really bad.

Allow me to illustrate how bad it was by comparing it to what we saw in the other game 7:

Josh Hart (playing through an abdominal injury), Precious Achiuwa and Miles McBride scored 22 points on 9/30 shooting. And that's just 3 players. That's a guy who probably shouldn't be playing (Hart), a back-up big (Achiuwa) and a guard on a rookie contract (McBride). Those 3 should NOT be matching the offensive production of every single Nuggets player other than Jokic and Murray. Aaron Gordon and MPJ are part of that rest of the Nuggets group.

Hell, Alec Burks outscored that entire rest of the Nuggets group on his own. He was really damn good with 26 points on 8/13 shooting.

Jokic and Murray definitely deserve criticism for the loss. After all, the Nuggets did collectively blow what was a 15-point lead at half time in a game 7 at home. But basketball is still a team game and it's pretty obvious that the rest of the team failed to produce offensively.

This, right here.

[dhsilv2]

I know people are generally blaming Nuggets bench but I don't think they were the reason they lost series..Nuggets actually lost the starting lineup minutes in most of the series. Nuggets bench did better than what was expected of them...Wolves bench also didn't do a ton...Kyle Anderson was disaster, NAW struggled. Naz also was on and off..even yesterday, Naz was quite bad in first half, he came alive in 2nd half only.

Part of the issue was just that they didn't have a bench to use in the first place. It isn't about plus minus differentials. It's about not having bench guys to give your starters rest or to mix up match ups/sets to keep the defense scrambling.

[dolphinatik]

Jokic could have done more. He picks and chooses when he wants to be casual and he was too casual in the wrong moment. The two man game between Murray a Jokic killed them, froze the rest of the team out. I couldn't even tell you who the 4th and 5th players on the floor were last night. The plan was working though until it wasn't.