Hou / NOP / Cle / Atl

[LarsV8]

To Houston
Jarret Allen
#17 via NOP

Gets a needed rim protector

To Atlanta
#3
Stephen Adams
Caris Levert

Gets good value for DJM

To Cleveland
Brandon Ingram

Balances their lineup a bit

To NOP
DJ Murray

Solves their long term Ingram issue with a cost controlled replacement.

[toooskies]

If I'm Houston and want a rim protector I just take Sarr or Clingan at #3. More team control.

[Ball4life32]

Probably do it for Atl if they love Risacher and he makes it to 3. Rather reroute Adams somewhere else though maybe Levert too. I don’t think they want to take back any salary if possible.

[DowJones]

Cleveland says yes

[Threezus]

I like both Adams and Lavert as players and 3 might be best pick you can get for Murray this offseason. Of the trade offers this one isn't a bad one i could see us pulling the trigger if we really like someone at 3 in this draft.

[K_chile22]

7th best defense, 20th best offence. Trading a top for a guy that can't play with your best offensive player and is limited offensively probably isn't the move. They need shooting and consistent perimeter scoring, not rim running center. Know you don't like Sengun but this makes no sense.

Even if you are dead set on replacing him with a "traditional" big just use use the pick on that, don't overpay for Allen (who I think is great but not top 3 pick great, even this year)

[axeman23]

So Cleveland gets another flight-risk to go with Mitchell, moving Allen who wants to be there in the process? YAY!!!

[RollingWave]

Two general issues I think.

1. NOP giving up Ingram & 17 to get Murray, when I think most people would still need to think about it in a straight-up scenario is a bit rich.

2. Houston trading 3 for essentially one year of Allen is a lot even if you value this pick more like a #8 pick in most draft, I don't think Allen is likely to sign on as a longer-term backup after next year.

I think this trade works better if there' no Houston, Allen also goes to NOP, and NOP gives up a little something more aside from 17 to Atlanta.

Like this trade works money wise

ATL get: Levert / Dyson Daniels (Hawkins work too) / #17
Cle get : Ingram
NOP get : Allen / Murray

This seems closer unless you really value Daniels. Who I get the logic but he still can't shoot for **** and it's not like his other parts of the game is Amen Thompson level.

If Houston really care that much for the whole rim protecting thing (which I find to be kind of non-sense unless it's a few very specific guys. ) they could probably just trade Adams for Capela or something.

Why for Houston: Capela is more likely to be healthier and generally a better jumper / lob catcher type of center, and obviously the previous connection.

Why for Atlanta : Adams is cheaper this year and expiring, maybe Houston throws in a 2nd somewhere or something.

[LarsV8]

7th best defense, 20th best offence. Trading a top for a guy that can't play with your best offensive player and is limited offensively probably isn't the move. They need shooting and consistent perimeter scoring, not rim running center. Know you don't like Sengun but this makes no sense.

Even if you are dead set on replacing him with a "traditional" big just use use the pick on that, don't overpay for Allen (who I think is great but not top 3 pick great, even this year)

9th in defense, which was basically the first 20 games, with a ton of injured / weak teams, where they were incredibly lucky with opponent 3pt %. It shot them up to 2nd in defense. Starting in December, they were abysmal in defense, which is why they crashed all the way to ninth. And not to mention, the offense got better when he was injured. Vertical spacing is a real thing. And we basically had Amen in there playing that role.

I don't dislike Sengun, I am just realistic about what he is. He is not an offensive hub, and he is incredibly poor on defense and rebounding, while clogging up the paint for perimeter players. To be frank, I just don't want to be the Sacramento Kings (no offense to them). As good as he is a post scorer, I think he is a really good bench player, if not the best, on a contending team, who likely is played off the floor in the playoffs. That is not what I would build my team around (if it were up to me).

Regarding drafting a traditional big, I prefer a known quantity.

[dms269]

Two general issues I think.

1. NOP giving up Ingram & 17 to get Murray, when I think most people would still need to think about it in a straight-up scenario is a bit rich.

I think this trade works better if there' no Houston, Allen also goes to NOP, and NOP gives up a little something more aside from 17 to Atlanta.

Like this trade works money wise

ATL get: Levert / Dyson Daniels (Hawkins work too) / #17
Cle get : Ingram
NOP get : Allen / Murray

This seems closer unless you really value Daniels. Who I get the logic but he still can't shoot for **** and it's not like his other parts of the game is Amen Thompson level.

If Houston really care that much for the whole rim protecting thing (which I find to be kind of non-sense unless it's a few very specific guys. ) they could probably just trade Adams for Capela or something.

Why for Houston: Capela is more likely to be healthier and generally a better jumper / lob catcher type of center, and obviously the previous connection.

Why for Atlanta : Adams is cheaper this year and expiring, maybe Houston throws in a 2nd somewhere or something.

I feel like we has hashed and rehashed the Murray for Ingram swap. I think most fans are hesitant from Atlanta's point of view due to Ingram's play style and future contract.

A Murray for Levert/Daniels/#17 doesn't work value wise for Atlanta.

[K_chile22]

7th best defense, 20th best offence. Trading a top for a guy that can't play with your best offensive player and is limited offensively probably isn't the move. They need shooting and consistent perimeter scoring, not rim running center. Know you don't like Sengun but this makes no sense.

Even if you are dead set on replacing him with a "traditional" big just use use the pick on that, don't overpay for Allen (who I think is great but not top 3 pick great, even this year)

9th in defense, which was basically the first 20 games, with a ton of injured / weak teams, where they were incredibly lucky with opponent 3pt %. It shot them up to 2nd in defense. Starting in December, they were abysmal in defense, which is why they crashed all the way to ninth. And not to mention, the offense got better when he was injured. Vertical spacing is a real thing. And we basically had Amen in there playing that role.

I don't dislike Sengun, I am just realistic about what he is. He is not an offensive hub, and he is incredibly poor on defense and rebounding, while clogging up the paint for perimeter players. To be frank, I just don't want to be the Sacramento Kings (no offense to them). As good as he is a post scorer, I think he is a really good bench player, if not the best, on a contending team, who likely is played off the floor in the playoffs. That is not what I would build my team around (if it were up to me).

Regarding drafting a traditional big, I prefer a known quantity.

I'm using cleaning the glass which is more accurate bc it uses tracking possessions and cuts out garbage time. 4th pre-december 1st, 9th after.Offense only got better when he was injured because the guy who was single handedly tanking their offense by being awful went on an insane heater (then stunk again once march ended, march mamba).

There's no data to support that hes a bad rebounder, he's above 60th%tile among bigs in rebound rate on both ends, they defensive rebound better with him on the floor. He also played way more as a roller than a post up guy, was second in the nba in roll man possessions and 8th in post ups (granted this is nba.com so only scoring possessions), JAlen could have benefitted a ton from the gravity he had as a roller but... he could not hit an open jumper to save his life all year so instead fred is the one who got that benefit, career high efficiency and assist rate at 30 because he ran pick and roll with sengun well and teams were terrified to give sengun the middle of the paint to work

[ThatBoyNick]

If you value Sengun as a long term starter, you don’t do this and are more then happy to roll with Adams as a 15 mpg backup and allocate the #3 picks value elsewhere.

If you don’t see Sengun as a long term starter, it would be asset management malpractice to do this without trading him. You have to trade him before replacing him. Cramming him on the bench will crater his value. I also don’t care how professional Sengun/Allen are, if they aren’t provided enough minutes in contract years they will be disgruntled.

For this to make sense it needs to be expanded into Sengun going out for significant value.

Personally, I think I’d roll with Sengun and kick the tires on what he can do over the next 4-5 years, we should be able to trade him on his 2nd contract if we don’t like the fit, at the moment the roster isn’t set enough to be forced to bail on his upside for fit.

[tidho]

So Cleveland gets another flight-risk to go with Mitchell, moving Allen who wants to be there in the process? YAY!!!

Not a huge fan of moving Allen, but this is reasonably good value. Would have to assume there would be extension talks as part of any of the (multitude of) Ingram deals. A bigger issue might be that CLE is getting even smaller. Better be accompanying this deal with one of the small guards being moved for a legitimate impact big. Not sure who that could even be. This leaves them with literally one big on their roster (and a stretch 4 in Wade) next year.

[jbk1234]

So Cleveland gets another flight-risk to go with Mitchell, moving Allen who wants to be there in the process? YAY!!!

Not a huge fan of moving Allen, but this is reasonably good value. Would have to assume there would be extension talks as part of any of the (multitude of) Ingram deals. A bigger issue might be that CLE is getting even smaller. Better be accompanying this deal with one of the small guards being moved for a legitimate impact big. Not sure who that could even be. This leaves them with literally one big on their roster (and a stretch 4 in Wade) next year.

It's reasonably good value if Ingram extends for less than the max, but Ingram has a lot more control over how easy it is to trade him for value than this place is acknowledging.

[LarsV8]

If you value Sengun as a long term starter, you don’t do this and are more then happy to roll with Adams as a 15 mpg backup and allocate the #3 picks value elsewhere.

If you don’t see Sengun as a long term starter, it would be asset management malpractice to do this without trading him. You have to trade him before replacing him. Cramming him on the bench will crater his value. I also don’t care how professional Sengun/Allen are, if they aren’t provided enough minutes in contract years they will be disgruntled.

For this to make sense it needs to be expanded into Sengun going out for significant value.

Personally, I think I’d roll with Sengun and kick the tires on what he can do over the next 4-5 years, we should be able to trade him on his 2nd contract if we don’t like the fit, at the moment the roster isn’t set enough to be forced to bail on his upside for fit.

Sengun is basically the trade piece for when the next big star becomes available via trade. Its the only thing that tilts the advantage to the Rockets vs the other big buyers like OKC and Utah.

We should be supplementing our team where it is weak in the meantime to make it the best landing spot possible for when stars give their "lists"

[ThatBoyNick]

If you value Sengun as a long term starter, you don’t do this and are more then happy to roll with Adams as a 15 mpg backup and allocate the #3 picks value elsewhere.

If you don’t see Sengun as a long term starter, it would be asset management malpractice to do this without trading him. You have to trade him before replacing him. Cramming him on the bench will crater his value. I also don’t care how professional Sengun/Allen are, if they aren’t provided enough minutes in contract years they will be disgruntled.

For this to make sense it needs to be expanded into Sengun going out for significant value.

Personally, I think I’d roll with Sengun and kick the tires on what he can do over the next 4-5 years, we should be able to trade him on his 2nd contract if we don’t like the fit, at the moment the roster isn’t set enough to be forced to bail on his upside for fit.

Sengun is basically the trade piece for when the next big star becomes available via trade. Its the only thing that tilts the advantage to the Rockets vs the other big buyers like OKC and Utah.

We should be supplementing our team where it is weak in the meantime to make it the best landing spot possible for when stars give their "lists"

How good of a trade piece is he if we are benching him? I think the star trade has to be before or simultaneous to landing a C replacement in the chain events of this vision. If the assumption is Ime wants a traditional defensive C, Senguns minutes and production will get seriously hampered. Even if we want to pretend Sengun will develop a consistent shot, there really isn’t minutes at PF with Eason and Smith.

I can understand the direction, even if it isn’t the one I’d chose at this moment, but I wouldn’t take such a risk to handicap our theoretical key asset by doing the trades in this order.

[RollingWave]

If you value Sengun as a long term starter, you don’t do this and are more then happy to roll with Adams as a 15 mpg backup and allocate the #3 picks value elsewhere.

If you don’t see Sengun as a long term starter, it would be asset management malpractice to do this without trading him. You have to trade him before replacing him. Cramming him on the bench will crater his value. I also don’t care how professional Sengun/Allen are, if they aren’t provided enough minutes in contract years they will be disgruntled.

For this to make sense it needs to be expanded into Sengun going out for significant value.

Personally, I think I’d roll with Sengun and kick the tires on what he can do over the next 4-5 years, we should be able to trade him on his 2nd contract if we don’t like the fit, at the moment the roster isn’t set enough to be forced to bail on his upside for fit.

Sengun is basically the trade piece for when the next big star becomes available via trade. Its the only thing that tilts the advantage to the Rockets vs the other big buyers like OKC and Utah.

We should be supplementing our team where it is weak in the meantime to make it the best landing spot possible for when stars give their "lists"

Can't agree with that asseessment at this point, not to mention offense oriented center, if one team think he fails at the defense aspect, is probably not nearly as valuable of a trade piece as you think.

And the Rockets generally did great defensively when Sengun played. more over, the scenario where Sengun might be traded would involve like Amen Thompson being awesome but still can't shoot for ****, at that point the center you need to trade for better be awfully specific.

[jayjaysee]

I like DJM a lot more for Houston than Allen.

Don’t know what a deal looks like, but maybe Houston’s mostly useless expirings (guaranteed) and 3 for Murray and Sac first? Needs more value to Houston. Houston probably gets it done without 3rd though..

Don’t like trading 3rd for a second starting center..

[ThatBoyNick]

And the Rockets generally did great defensively when Sengun played. more over, the scenario where Sengun might be traded would involve like Amen Thompson being awesome but still can't shoot for ****, at that point the center you need to trade for better be awfully specific.

Sengun is much more likely to develop a shot than Allen, so in addition to other things this trade is also kind of assuming Amen either develops a shot or won't be someone you build around (over the duration of Allens tenure at least). Again, high risks of asset mismanagement in a move like this, as structured, IMO.

[jbk1234]

And the Rockets generally did great defensively when Sengun played. more over, the scenario where Sengun might be traded would involve like Amen Thompson being awesome but still can't shoot for ****, at that point the center you need to trade for better be awfully specific.

Sengun is much more likely to develop a shot than Allen, so in addition to other things this trade is also kind of assuming Amen either develops a shot or won't be someone you build around (over the duration of Allens tenure at least). Again, high risks of asset mismanagement in a move like this, as structured, IMO.

I'm ambivalent about this trade, mostly because I'm skeptical that ingram will agree to a reasonable extension, but if Amen never develops a shot, he's probably not someone you want to build around regardless of whether Allen is there.