The Gradey Dick Thread Part 3

[HumbleRen]

We’ve seen time and time again that the rookie teams are almost meaningless.

Is there a likely reality where Gradey isn’t a top 10 player from this draft ? Yeah, most likely but we won’t know for sure by their rookie years.

[djsunyc]

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[WuTang_CMB]

talk about roller coaster season. He really grinded and got a whole lot better. Interesting skill set and great fit next to barnes
looking forward to next few years on how we develop him

[ArthurVandelay]

You’d think by now people would have learned that Dick hot takes never age well

[S.W.A.N]

The question remains, is he a starter on this team? With IQ, RJ, and Scottie as the other 3, having Dick as the 4th guy seems like a shaky defensive lineup. They're probably content to use him in a 6th man role for the time being. I still maintain they need to upgrade the C spot in order to enhance the current roster.

Depending on roster moves he could sneak into starting lineup...

That said, he should be a bench player for now. You are correct about his impact on defense. We really need a two way player who can defend point of attack in the starting lineup. Quickley is potentially a very good pg, but he doesn't look like he'll be that defender at all. he's far better in the off ball defense.

Upgrading the C spot is pretty tricky. Guys that can defend and do the little things like Poeltl and then spread the floor are hard to find. I think it more realistic to find a good backup like a Holmes/Missi/Ware who might one day be a starter.

Gradey would really benefit from us getting a proper backup pg, which would unlock his shooting more with the second unit.

[Scase]

ROTY = worth putting stock in.
All rookie teams = worthless most of the time.

Gradey can still be garbage, but this isn't the fuel to that fire. Also jesus, it's year one, relax lol.

However, there is more and more evidence that this was a good draft class, and doubling down for the play in was a stupid move.

[Scase]

The question remains, is he a starter on this team? With IQ, RJ, and Scottie as the other 3, having Dick as the 4th guy seems like a shaky defensive lineup. They're probably content to use him in a 6th man role for the time being. I still maintain they need to upgrade the C spot in order to enhance the current roster.

Depending on roster moves he could sneak into starting lineup...

That said, he should be a bench player for now. You are correct about his impact on defense. We really need a two way player who can defend point of attack in the starting lineup. Quickley is potentially a very good pg, but he doesn't look like he'll be that defender at all. he's far better in the off ball defense.

Upgrading the C spot is pretty tricky. Guys that can defend and do the little things like Poeltl and then spread the floor are hard to find. I think it more realistic to find a good backup like a Holmes/Missi/Ware who might one day be a starter.

Gradey would really benefit from us getting a proper backup pg, which would unlock his shooting more with the second unit.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but, I'd rather GD put into the starting 5 and RJ put as the 6th man. We need as much shooting in that SL as we can get, we have lots of good vision in the SL, and RJ can feast on opposing bench units. And if we found a legit 2/3 that can defend we'd be balanced.

[HumbleRen]

The question remains, is he a starter on this team? With IQ, RJ, and Scottie as the other 3, having Dick as the 4th guy seems like a shaky defensive lineup. They're probably content to use him in a 6th man role for the time being. I still maintain they need to upgrade the C spot in order to enhance the current roster.

Depending on roster moves he could sneak into starting lineup...

That said, he should be a bench player for now. You are correct about his impact on defense. We really need a two way player who can defend point of attack in the starting lineup. Quickley is potentially a very good pg, but he doesn't look like he'll be that defender at all. he's far better in the off ball defense.

Upgrading the C spot is pretty tricky. Guys that can defend and do the little things like Poeltl and then spread the floor are hard to find. I think it more realistic to find a good backup like a Holmes/Missi/Ware who might one day be a starter.

Gradey would really benefit from us getting a proper backup pg, which would unlock his shooting more with the second unit.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but, I'd rather GD put into the starting 5 and RJ put as the 6th man. We need as much shooting in that SL as we can get, we have lots of good vision in the SL, and RJ can feast on opposing bench units. And if we found a legit 2/3 that can defend we'd be balanced.

Pretty tough sell to convince RJ on that lol.

I do think his ultimate role in the NBA is an overqualified 6th man on a contender but good luck convincing him to do that for a fringe play in caliber team haha,

[Scase]

Depending on roster moves he could sneak into starting lineup...

That said, he should be a bench player for now. You are correct about his impact on defense. We really need a two way player who can defend point of attack in the starting lineup. Quickley is potentially a very good pg, but he doesn't look like he'll be that defender at all. he's far better in the off ball defense.

Upgrading the C spot is pretty tricky. Guys that can defend and do the little things like Poeltl and then spread the floor are hard to find. I think it more realistic to find a good backup like a Holmes/Missi/Ware who might one day be a starter.

Gradey would really benefit from us getting a proper backup pg, which would unlock his shooting more with the second unit.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but, I'd rather GD put into the starting 5 and RJ put as the 6th man. We need as much shooting in that SL as we can get, we have lots of good vision in the SL, and RJ can feast on opposing bench units. And if we found a legit 2/3 that can defend we'd be balanced.

Pretty tough sell to convince RJ on that lol.

I do think his ultimate role in the NBA is an overqualified 6th man on a contender but good luck convincing him to do that for a fringe play in caliber team haha,

Yeah I'm more speaking to the what we should do, I guess not the realistic one lol. Any team that has RJ as a starter, is probably not going very far, not a shot at him specifically, but he's pretty limited at what he does, and on his way to his 6th year.

[MEDIC]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but, I'd rather GD put into the starting 5 and RJ put as the 6th man. We need as much shooting in that SL as we can get, we have lots of good vision in the SL, and RJ can feast on opposing bench units. And if we found a legit 2/3 that can defend we'd be balanced.

Pretty tough sell to convince RJ on that lol.

I do think his ultimate role in the NBA is an overqualified 6th man on a contender but good luck convincing him to do that for a fringe play in caliber team haha,

Yeah I'm more speaking to the what we should do, I guess not the realistic one lol. Any team that has RJ as a starter, is probably not going very far, not a shot at him specifically, but he's pretty limited at what he does, and on his way to his 6th year.

I could see RJ in that role later in his career on a contender.

Right now he is on a developing team & is still 4-5 years away from his prime.

It's not like he hasn't performed well in the SL or hasn't been a good fit.

Moving a 2nd overall pick (who is only 23 years old & just averaged 20 ppg) to the bench isn't a good look for the organization.

I am not sure why people are in a hurry to define these young guys. Just let them grow over the next 3 years & see what happens. It's not like the Raps are a contender that needs to make strategic player moves.

Many of us said the same things about Derozan, but with time and time and patience........he helped get us to the ECF. I am hoping RJ can do the same for us..

[Scase]

Pretty tough sell to convince RJ on that lol.

I do think his ultimate role in the NBA is an overqualified 6th man on a contender but good luck convincing him to do that for a fringe play in caliber team haha,

Yeah I'm more speaking to the what we should do, I guess not the realistic one lol. Any team that has RJ as a starter, is probably not going very far, not a shot at him specifically, but he's pretty limited at what he does, and on his way to his 6th year.

I could see RJ in that role later in his career on a contender.

Right now he is on a developing team & is still 4-5 years away from his prime.

It's not like he hasn't performed well in the SL or hasn't been a good fit.

Moving a 2nd overall pick (who is only 23 years old & just averaged 20 ppg) to the bench isn't a good look for the organization.

I am not sure why people are in a hurry to define these young guys. Just let them grow over the next 3 years & see what happens. It's not like the Raps are a contender that needs to make strategic player moves.

Many of us said the same things about Derozan, but with time and time and patience........he helped get us to the ECF. I am hoping RJ can do the same for us..

3rd overall, not that it matters though. As for his age, it's less important than most younger players. He's going into year 6 of his career, he is in every sense of the word, considered a vet now. His game has not changed at all in 6 years, maybe he gets a bit better, but he's not going to suddenly transform into some great player.

I'm not saying he's bad, he's just a stop gap is all. And I'm not sure using DD as some great example of why we should go down the same road with RJ. Yeah he got us to the ECF with KL, but he is also a player who realistically achieved nothing. He crumbled in the playoffs, and is not something you put a large portion of your teams faith in. Same as RJ.

Besides, who cares what the "look" is. Manu was a career "bench" player, and he is one of the main reasons the spurs won anything. Because he put aside ego to do what the team needed. And Manu is 10x the player RJ will ever be.

[tecumseh18]

Pretty tough sell to convince RJ on that lol.

I do think his ultimate role in the NBA is an overqualified 6th man on a contender but good luck convincing him to do that for a fringe play in caliber team haha,

Yeah I'm more speaking to the what we should do, I guess not the realistic one lol. Any team that has RJ as a starter, is probably not going very far, not a shot at him specifically, but he's pretty limited at what he does, and on his way to his 6th year.

I could see RJ in that role later in his career on a contender.

Right now he is on a developing team & is still 4-5 years away from his prime.

It's not like he hasn't performed well in the SL or hasn't been a good fit.

Moving a 2nd overall pick (who is only 23 years old & just averaged 20 ppg) to the bench isn't a good look for the organization.

I am not sure why people are in a hurry to define these young guys. Just let them grow over the next 3 years & see what happens. It's not like the Raps are a contender that needs to make strategic player moves.

Many of us said the same things about Derozan, but with time and time and patience........he helped get us to the ECF. I am hoping RJ can do the same for us..

The key to RJ's (and IQ's) status as starters on a competitive/contending team is their ability to defend. Defence is clearly not Darko's focus right now, but eventually it will be. And they seem like good kids, so why shouldn't they want to improve at the other end of the court? Hell, even Kyrie is finally proving he can defend the POA, so there's no reason to be pessimistic about our guys. MPJ's getting a lot of heat now, but even he - unanimous choice for worst defending max player in the league a few years ago - has improved.

Has DD ever shown a predilection for defence since the trade? I was so happy to see him go after that last Cavs sweep. Just a disgraceful performance! The 2019-2020 Raptors showed how could they could be without DeMar. Addition by subtraction.

[HumbleRen]

Pretty tough sell to convince RJ on that lol.

I do think his ultimate role in the NBA is an overqualified 6th man on a contender but good luck convincing him to do that for a fringe play in caliber team haha,

Yeah I'm more speaking to the what we should do, I guess not the realistic one lol. Any team that has RJ as a starter, is probably not going very far, not a shot at him specifically, but he's pretty limited at what he does, and on his way to his 6th year.

I could see RJ in that role later in his career on a contender.

Right now he is on a developing team & is still 4-5 years away from his prime.

It's not like he hasn't performed well in the SL or hasn't been a good fit.

Moving a 2nd overall pick (who is only 23 years old & just averaged 20 ppg) to the bench isn't a good look for the organization.

I am not sure why people are in a hurry to define these young guys. Just let them grow over the next 3 years & see what happens. It's not like the Raps are a contender that needs to make strategic player moves.

Many of us said the same things about Derozan, but with time and time and patience........he helped get us to the ECF. I am hoping RJ can do the same for us..

Sure, I’m all for giving him a chance, it’s not like we can sniff our nose at anyone considering we’re talent starved as it is. He’s a very hard worker and tries really hard.

I’m just not as optimistic as you are when it comes to defensive development. We have a 5 year sample size of RJ not being able to guard his position or really any other position.

So that inherently makes Gradey ever being a starter unlikely as long as RJ remains a starter. Which is fine with me because my expectations aren’t for Gradey to be a starter with this current core but RJ’s defensive issues make very apparent that we need a very good 3&D player at the 2 or 3 hence then making a gamble on Ochai but I don’t think that’s going to cut it.

[HumbleRen]

Yeah I'm more speaking to the what we should do, I guess not the realistic one lol. Any team that has RJ as a starter, is probably not going very far, not a shot at him specifically, but he's pretty limited at what he does, and on his way to his 6th year.

I could see RJ in that role later in his career on a contender.

Right now he is on a developing team & is still 4-5 years away from his prime.

It's not like he hasn't performed well in the SL or hasn't been a good fit.

Moving a 2nd overall pick (who is only 23 years old & just averaged 20 ppg) to the bench isn't a good look for the organization.

I am not sure why people are in a hurry to define these young guys. Just let them grow over the next 3 years & see what happens. It's not like the Raps are a contender that needs to make strategic player moves.

Many of us said the same things about Derozan, but with time and time and patience........he helped get us to the ECF. I am hoping RJ can do the same for us..

3rd overall, not that it matters though. As for his age, it's less important than most younger players. He's going into year 6 of his career, he is in every sense of the word, considered a vet now. His game has not changed at all in 6 years, maybe he gets a bit better, but he's not going to suddenly transform into some great player.

I'm not saying he's bad, he's just a stop gap is all. And I'm not sure using DD as some great example of why we should go down the same road with RJ. Yeah he got us to the ECF with KL, but he is also a player who realistically achieved nothing. He crumbled in the playoffs, and is not something you put a large portion of your teams faith in. Same as RJ.

Besides, who cares what the "look" is. Manu was a career "bench" player, and he is one of the main reasons the spurs won anything. Because he put aside ego to do what the team needed. And Manu is 10x the player RJ will ever be.

Funny you mentioned Manu because I think Darko long term agrees with us.

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[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Yeah I see some Ginobili in Barrett too, I see like 65% of the offensive player Ginobili was and -300% of the defensive player.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

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Thanks Bobby.

[aminiaturebuddha]

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another miss by this FO imo

Pascal wasn't on any of the All-Rookie teams and he's a consensus top 3 pick in his draft year now with a nice share of people putting him number 1.

Which of those picked below Gradey (George, Podz, JJJ, Lively and Jackson.) would you have taken above him for this team? Lively and maybe Podz?

Lively was chosen at #12, just before Dick. And is clearly a better prospect.

Gradey has a special skill that looks like it could be elite, and an interest in doing other things on the court. He has BBIQ, earning him a very public kiss by our superstar. His youth alone makes on excited for his future. I wouldn't take Podz over him, for sure. JJJ would have been a fun pick after watching Fred walk, bringing positive energy back to the team and allowing us to spend the MLE on someone other than Dennis.

I think I'm a bit confused by what you're saying here. Are you suggesting that JJJ would have been a point guard on the Raptors?

[tecumseh18]

Pascal wasn't on any of the All-Rookie teams and he's a consensus top 3 pick in his draft year now with a nice share of people putting him number 1.

Which of those picked below Gradey (George, Podz, JJJ, Lively and Jackson.) would you have taken above him for this team? Lively and maybe Podz?

Lively was chosen at #12, just before Dick. And is clearly a better prospect.

Gradey has a special skill that looks like it could be elite, and an interest in doing other things on the court. He has BBIQ, earning him a very public kiss by our superstar. His youth alone makes on excited for his future. I wouldn't take Podz over him, for sure. JJJ would have been a fun pick after watching Fred walk, bringing positive energy back to the team and allowing us to spend the MLE on someone other than Dennis.

I think I'm a bit confused by what you're saying here. Are you suggesting that JJJ would have been a point guard on the Raptors?

Well, he's a combo guard. Scottie and Pascal (at the beginning of the season) do a lot of "point guard" stuff.

I was always impressed by how the Raptors played without a proper point guard after Fred went down in the 2022 Sixers series. I've sorta wanted them to go in an all-big-all-the-time direction since then. If RJ can stay at the 2 and we get a proper OG-esque 3, we can stop being pushed around by bigger teams.

[Thaddy]

Is he going to play in the summer league? It would be good to see him try to self create and use a pick more. He's a handle away from being a great 6th man.

[Duffman100]

Is he going to play in the summer league? It would be good to see him try to self create and use a pick more. He's a handle away from being a great 6th man.

What's tough is his game just isn't built for summer league. You'd have to really run sets for him, make sure people are aligned on your vision.

I think he should play but I'd be skeptical of how he'd look.