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2024 Draft Thread - Part II

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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#541 » by Rafael122 » Mon May 20, 2024 7:53 pm

TGW wrote:
DCZards wrote:
Rafael122 wrote:FWIW, Risacher measured 6'9.5" with a 6'10.5" wingspan at the 2023 Nike Hoop Summit. I don't know if wingspan is all that important when it comes to wings, he's got an 8'10'' standing reach which is around the same as Bilal's but the wingspan is 4 inches shorter. Just something to monitor.

Wingspan can be very important for an NBA wing. It’s one of the reasons that Jaden McDaniels and his 7 foot wingspan is a force on defense for Minny.


Yep, it's the main reason why I'm not a fan of Risaccher. He doesn't have top-tier wingspan, although to be fair, neother does Deni and we love him.

And for the record, I totally believe he's the pick, unless the Hawks decide to take him, which leaves the Wizards with Sarr.


By the same token, he's only 19. Dawkins said Bilal has grown another inch. So Risacher is probably going to top out at 6'10'' or so and at least a 7+ foot wingspan.
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#542 » by J-Ves » Mon May 20, 2024 8:06 pm

I can live with Risacher

As long as we don’t take tiny Dillingham, or plodding Clingan, or skinny Willams I’ll be alright
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#543 » by J-Ves » Mon May 20, 2024 8:22 pm

What's funny is I'd be willing to bet one of their favorite targets for our late 1st is Pacome Dadiet. Another big young French wing. Things get awkward when we have Bilal, Risacher, and Dadiet on the same roster and that's before you figure in all our other forwards. I've heard it said that you can't have enough good 3nD role players on a roster and I think we will be putting that to the test
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#544 » by NatP4 » Mon May 20, 2024 8:31 pm

J-Ves wrote:What's funny is I'd be willing to bet one of their favorite targets for our late 1st is Pacome Dadiet. Another big young French wing. Things get awkward when we have Bilal, Risacher, and Dadiet on the same roster and that's before you figure in all our other forwards. I've heard it said that you can't have enough good 3nD role players on a roster and I think we will be putting that to the test


I think they end up trading up for Dadiet in the 12-16 range. Similar late riser like Jalen Williams, Coulibaly, and Ousmane Dieng.

I like his upside more than Risacher.
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#545 » by payitforward » Mon May 20, 2024 8:36 pm

TGW wrote:I'm not seeing it with Castle at all. His numbers were pedestrian at best....

For sure every draft pick comes with some risk, but Castle's numbers overall were quite good for a Freshman -- not his shooting numbers; they were "pedestrian," just as you say. But the rest of his numbers tell a different story.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not suggesting we draft him at 2. But if we trade down I see him as a high value pick.
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#546 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon May 20, 2024 8:45 pm

machu46 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I think I have a new favorite player in this draft.

https://nbadraftroom.com/dillon-jones/

https://hoopshype.com/lists/dillon-jones-nba-draft-scouting-report-and-intel/


This is an extremely intelligent guy. He scores, rebounds, and defends well. He's efficient and focused. Dillon Jones can guard 2,3, and 4. From what I've seen on YouTube so far, he can initiate offense like a PG.

I'm totally impressed. A lot of players come to my mind. Underrated at draft time. Paul Millsap. Kenneth Faried. Carlos Boozer. Jimmy Butler, Josh Hart

doclinkin, talk me off hype mountain. Anyone else? Thoughts?
.

He’s one of the most difficult prospects for me to figure out. A lot of Bucks fans are interested in him at 23 or 33. I tend to think guys like him who are uber productive but are built like squares instead of athletic monsters tend to be underrated. Grant Williams and Desmond Bane come to mind for those reasons, and I think Grant Williams is a decent comparison for Jones. Jones’ athleticism is very underwhelming; he’s slow and simply doesn’t elevate well at all. I badly wish we could have seen him against better competition in college. But it’s a really intriguing profile in a draft that doesn’t have a ton of talent.


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Grant Williams seems like a very good comparison. The Wizards have picks 26 and 51. I doubt Dillon Jones gets selected in round one, and I won't be surprised if he goes undrafted.

That said, I expect he will make calls roster and become a solid player in the NBA.

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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#547 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon May 20, 2024 8:51 pm

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:
payitforward wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I think I have a new favorite player in this draft.

https://nbadraftroom.com/dillon-jones/

https://hoopshype.com/lists/dillon-jones-nba-draft-scouting-report-and-intel/


This is an extremely intelligent guy. He scores, rebounds, and defends well. He's efficient and focused. Dillon Jones can guard 2,3, and 4. From what I've seen on YouTube so far, he can initiate offense like a PG.

I'm totally impressed. A lot of players come to my mind. Underrated at draft time. Paul Millsap. Kenneth Faried. Carlos Boozer. Jimmy Butler, Josh Hart

doclinkin, talk me off hype mountain. Anyone else? Thoughts?
.

I like him. But he has't put up numbers like the guys you mention. Def. a good call in the 50s, Y& he might be there/
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Yeah Ive looked at him quite a bit, and I like him. He's definitely my type of player, he's got a diverse skillset, and he plays a physical brand of basketball. He's a bit older and there are others I like higher than him, but I do like him, He's worth considering at 51.
At 51, he's a no-brainer.

The lack of athleticism doesn't prevent him from playing terrific defense. Meta World Peace had the same build.

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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#548 » by NatP4 » Mon May 20, 2024 9:27 pm

Ulm absolutely crushed Wurzburg to even the series at 1-1 in the BBL playoffs.

Dadiet had 12 points 5 rebounds 2 assists 1 steal on 6 shots. +12 in 20 minutes played.

Nunez had 10 points 4 rebounds 6 assists 5 steals on 7 shots in 17 minutes played.
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#549 » by closg00 » Mon May 20, 2024 9:41 pm

J-Ves wrote:I can live with Risacher

As long as we don’t take tiny Dillingham, or plodding Clingan, or skinny Willams I’ll be alright


My dreams of Hibachi 2.0 have been vanquished. I still believe that Dillingham would have put on some weight, and perhaps grown another inch or two, he has all star potential :(

If we draft Risacher, it seems like we're re-drafting for a French wing that can shoot, I don't see them taking Castle at 2. Hell, I am open to Reed now...
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#550 » by Ed Wood » Mon May 20, 2024 10:05 pm

This is using that characterization as a prompt rather than calling it out (I think the second pick is high for Cody Williams as well) but are how many times do we need to run through the cycle of people posting clips of seniors who've really taken to their team's strength training regimes boxing out the Chet Holmgrens of the world in college with captions like "won't last a week on an NBA court" and then weird great prospect with a slight build is actually good as hell before we don't do that.
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#551 » by Ed Wood » Mon May 20, 2024 10:10 pm

Also in trying to compile a list of centers on good NBA rosters that aren't one of (a) future hall of famers (Jokic, Embiid), (b) capable perimeter threats (Myles Turner, Holmgren, Porzingis) or (c) just defensive specialists (Zubac, Gafford & Lively) and I'm coming up with like exactly Jarrett Allen (and his team is maybe trying to move him). I don't know that I'm seeing the glorious return of good rosters making significant use of old school centers.
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#552 » by Dat2U » Tue May 21, 2024 12:06 am

I could live with Stephon Castle at 2 although I'm not a fan at all and hope for the best. I would blindly support any high upside play at 2 or a trade down for a couple of upside plays but I would be completely out on this front office if they choose Clingan. Not because I don't think he can't be a solid player or even starter. It's that he's the wrong choice at the wrong time. Good enough to potentially be the most impactful rookie, significantly improve the defense and cost us the lottery pick but a low enough ceiling to where he may not get significantly better than he will be as a rookie.
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#553 » by Dat2U » Tue May 21, 2024 12:25 am

Will do a deeper dive on Salaun. So far my concern is his awareness which can certainly improve. By all accounts his last game was ***by far*** his most complete game so I kinda take it with a grain of salt although progression is certainly positive. I think he's a future 4 based on his movements and frame.

I'm sold on Dilly. He just has to get stronger. Collin Sexton ... Brandon Jennings (before his injury) ... Darius Garland (who will bounce back when he's back on the ball) are the range of outcomes I come up with. I know folks may not necessarily like that but in this draft you can do a helluva lot worst than a guy with creation skills that may make an all-star game or two.

Risacher is probably the best compromise of upside with a solid floor in a 6-10 young wing that can shoot. He looks like he can attack closeouts but we haven't seen much else. A sturdier Otto Porter Jr is what I come up with.

Collier is a sleeper. Big and fast, his decision making improved greatly as the season went on. I'm torn between him and Jared McCain as a trade down option. McCain is right there with Sheppard as a shooter and in fact may be more versatile and shows more shot creation. The PG skills are there looking at his HS type although he had an off ball role at Duke.
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#554 » by payitforward » Tue May 21, 2024 12:58 am

Dat2U wrote:... I would be completely out on this front office if they choose Clingan. ...

Don't know about "completely out" but I agree that he's not the guy I'd want us to pick. & I don't think they will.

What will definitely be interesting will be to watch what they DO do -- not just with the #2 pick. Essentially, this is their first draft or, at least, the first one they've managed from the get-go, from the moment the previous one ended. So, yeah, we will learn from what they do, how they proceed.

Certainly, OKC has not been afraid to develop multiple rookies: in '21 they added 4 of them through the draft (Giddey, Tre Mann, Robinson-Earl & Aaron Wiggins), & they played a lot (@5400 minutes).

For that matter, at least 3 other rookies played some minutes for them that year -- & 2 of them were still on the team this last season!

Then they added 4 more rookies in the next draft! :) & Ousmane Dieng in '23.

In short, they just went to the 2d round with 11 or more guys in their first 3 years. &, those guys played about 60% of all their minutes! Wow!!

I'm guessing we're unlikely to see much reluctance to "develop multiple rookies at the same time" !!! :)
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#555 » by Ed Wood » Tue May 21, 2024 1:22 am

I don't think there's a likely scenario where the Wizards draft Clingan and I'm especially happy about it unless he really falls below where he's projected, but I don't think it's hard to see why he's a reasonably valued commodity given the expectations people have for this draft and why he's valued meaningfully more than Edey. The Walker Kessler comp for him is incredibly easy to make and even pushing past lazy, fraught player comparison tropes a Kessler or maybe an optimistic Gobert seems reasonably coherent. I find the pitch that you might just get out of this draft with a Kessler and that's an above average outcome somewhat reasonable, even if I'm not buying.

Edey should be an NBA player, but it's much harder to articulate what his really valuable NBA existence amounts to and the fact that he had such a singular college career deserves to be accounted for, but when stacking him up to a lot of the other great bigs of recent decades everybody who's in the conversation was either much younger and easier to project as a pro (and that group generally did succeed often exceedingly at the NBA level - your Anthony Davis, Greg Oden [he was a very good pro to the extent he was able to play professional basketball], DeMarcus Cousins) or if also someone who grew into a force as an upperclassmen we're talking like Frank Kaminsky, Luka Garza, Jock Landale, Ryan Kalkbrenner... I agree that he can be a more assertive defender if he weren't on a roster that just cannot compete with other good college teams without him on the floor, but he actually had a somewhat similar overall sophomore year to Clingan's in a lot of ways, including not being so essential to his team and so playing more limited minutes, and he wasn't the defender Clingan is when he wasn't obliged to throttle down. Edey should be drafted, and he will, but I think I have enough late draft curiosities that I don't know there's a spot I'd want to draft him and figure out how to make it happen.
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#556 » by DCZards » Tue May 21, 2024 1:51 am

Dat2U wrote:Collier is a sleeper. Big and fast, his decision making improved greatly as the season went on. I'm torn between him and Jared McCain as a trade down option. McCain is right there with Sheppard as a shooter and in fact may be more versatile and shows more shot creation. The PG skills are there looking at his HS type although he had an off ball role at Duke.

I'm right with you on Collier and McCain. Collier had a very uneven season--with injuries and stuff. I got a chance to see Collier late in the season and what I saw was a big, physical guard with the ability--and desire--to get to the basket or the FT line. That's a skill that will serve him well at the next level.

I would not be surprised if Collier ends up being one of the top 5 or 6 players in this draft.
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#557 » by NatP4 » Tue May 21, 2024 1:59 am

Dat2U wrote:Will do a deeper dive on Salaun. So far my concern is his awareness which can certainly improve. By all accounts his last game was ***by far*** his most complete game so I kinda take it with a grain of salt although progression is certainly positive. I think he's a future 4 based on his movements and frame.


Have you looked at Dadiet yet?
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#558 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue May 21, 2024 4:10 am

closg00 wrote:
J-Ves wrote:I can live with Risacher

As long as we don’t take tiny Dillingham, or plodding Clingan, or skinny Willams I’ll be alright


My dreams of Hibachi 2.0 have been vanquished. I still believe that Dillingham would have put on some weight, and perhaps grown another inch or two, he has all star potential :(

If we draft Risacher, it seems like we're re-drafting for a French wing that can shoot, I don't see them taking Castle at 2. Hell, I am open to Reed now...
I wonder how different in size Dillingham is from Allen Iverson?

Early on, I don't want Risacher.

Reed Sheppard seems appealing in light of the successes Jalen Brunson and T.J McConnell are. His advanced stats look great. Reed seems destined to be a dynamic player

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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#559 » by doclinkin » Tue May 21, 2024 12:12 pm

Ed Wood wrote:Edey should be an NBA player, but it's much harder to articulate what his really valuable NBA existence amounts to and the fact that he had such a singular college career deserves to be accounted for, but when stacking him up to a lot of the other great bigs of recent decades everybody who's in the conversation was either much younger and easier to project as a pro (and that group generally did succeed often exceedingly at the NBA level - your Anthony Davis, Greg Oden [he was a very good pro to the extent he was able to play professional basketball], DeMarcus Cousins) or if also someone who grew into a force as an upperclassmen we're talking like Frank Kaminsky, Luka Garza, Jock Landale, Ryan Kalkbrenner... I agree that he can be a more assertive defender if he weren't on a roster that just cannot compete with other good college teams without him on the floor, but he actually had a somewhat similar overall sophomore year to Clingan's in a lot of ways, including not being so essential to his team and so playing more limited minutes, and he wasn't the defender Clingan is when he wasn't obliged to throttle down. Edey should be drafted, and he will, but I think I have enough late draft curiosities that I don't know there's a spot I'd want to draft him and figure out how to make it happen.


Hey welcome back my friend. Yes I'm the only one this high on Zack Edey. (And even then I wish we could get him late. On a swap of Kuz for a mid-pick. I don't think he's there at 26).

I've been pushing the renaissance of Bigs for a while, since I predicted small ball would start to swing the other way. And I'm working on convincing my own self if not anybody else, but the league keeps chipping away with rules emphases that seem to trend back in that direction. We are still in a bombs away era for 3pt shooting, but in the playoffs teams are getting bigger. League rules to eliminate tickytack fouls have let defenders get more bold on the perimeter, effectively snuffing the combo guard era. Perimeter players are getting longer as teams idolize rangy switchability on the outside. Shooters are shooting from farther out than ever, and in the regular season we still see a bombardment of long range gunnery. But It switches in the postseason though as the possession game becomes the focus, things slow down, scouting more intense, and high percentage shots are gold. Looks to me like in this environment the big boys advance.

Funny to say: 'except for HOFers, defenders, and shooters, we don't see Centers in the league'. Well yeah. I mean, aside from ballhandlers, snipers, and supernova talents we don't see guards in the league. Those are the roles. The role of a center is to be big, deter easy baskets underneath. The ball still has to go towards the basket. The big guy is closest to it. It's still a key role if you can utilize it. All the counters to that are decoys.

The way I see it, there's opportunity for a smart team to meet big with bigger. As an option. Let them shoot from outside with their big. Jokic is about the only guy I want bombing away from the top of the key. Wemby started the year out there until Pop forced him to drop low where his huge-itude proved most effective. Thing is players like Porzingis, Chet, et all, struggle to stop the true giants. My belief is the counter to the Unicorns is an Ogre. Let their guntower bigs huck from outside. They will miss 60-some percent of those shots. You can control the game if you can collect every rebound. Limit the opportunities for wild swings. Yes, sure. Challenge the perimeter with length of your own. Switchable rangy wings. Force a few misses. They leave the interior open for your monster. You hoover up every bounce. Then walk it up and beat hell into them at the other end. Pass into the interior with your tall wings. Stuff it down their throats with an unstoppable monster.

Teams like OKC give up on offensive rebounds. Teams like NYK feast with them. You can win both ways. Personally I like the option. If you have the possibility to go huge, you can force them to play your game. Control the possession game. At both ends. Doesn't have to be pretty. I just see there's an opportunity here that teams are missing. And you know, I'm smarter than everybody. A true visionary. So people ought to all listen to me. Naturally.

I also am of the mind that the NIL era will begin to pay off with players more than projects. The hypertalents will always jump, but nowadays underdeveloped athletes have a chance to gamble on their own talents and work to improve their games to the extent where you may get value from guys who actually use the college experience for what it is worth: to develop leadership, skill, work on their body etc. Where we will especially see benefits is with Centers. Who take longer to develop. The league has been plagued with raw giants for a while, Wiseman or Ayton or Duren or whomever. Guys who have all the talent in the world but it doesn't lead to wins. I don't think it's because basketball hates bigs. I think it is because they don't know how to truly use their advantage. I am enjoying the rebirth of the Big at the college level, and feel like that has to pay dividends at some point with more complete players coming into the league that know their role and are not trying to be giant guards.

A guy like Edey got better every year. Working on exactly what he was asked to do. Playing within his limitations, but pushing his own boundaries. He will instantly be the biggest player in the league. I think he didn't just coast on size but added skill and challenged himself. Is he a Boban? A mythical giant who is highly efficient on offense but unplayable in the modern game? Or is he a throwback, an interior force that requires opposing coaches to make an adjustment, and by doing so changes the game. Can he work to fit in this league. Me I am gambling on the possibility that his dominance translates. He is already a sure-fire HOFer at the NCAA level. He has not gotten worse every year or coasted. In the right environment he is going to be a problem that playoff teams will have to deal with. If you gave that guy to coach Spo, or Thibbs, or Pop, you don't think they will find a way to use him? A dminant offensive rebounder and instant bucket on any touch. Bigger than any other guy on any other team. Does not get tired. Works hard in the gym and offseasons. Now put him in Heat culture. Play him next to Bam. Who will stop that 4-to-5 interior pass? Or make him miss. Coach Spo can't work with that? A complete player with a definite role. The Heat don't like that guy?

In your formulation above of "we don't see any centers except HOF guys..." etc, well, there is an outside chance that to me Edey's skillset does translate. And if it does as it did in college, then yeah, he is cast as one of those Naismith bronzes for his NBA career as well. IF so then yeah there will be a lot of foreheads smacked that we shoulda seed it comin'. But I will say nothing, won't even be smug about it.
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#560 » by closg00 » Tue May 21, 2024 12:29 pm

Oh-oh, Yoda is unimpressed with Zaccarie Risacher, Kevin has not put-out his report yet, but he is saying that this is a weak draft class indeed. :(
Up and down the draft, I have questions. Like, why is Zaccarie Risacher, rated so high? He’s tall and agile, but his production doesn’t jump off the spreadsheet. When some fans on Twitter were comping him to players like Keegan Murray and Otto Porter, I ran him through the YODA version of my statistical doppelganger machine. And came up with Kevin Knox.

https://www.bulletsforever.com/2024/5/21/24161335/washington-wizards-nba-draft-prospect-analysis-alex-sarr-zaccarie-risacher#comments

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