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2024 Draft Thread - Part II

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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#561 » by NatP4 » Tue May 21, 2024 12:48 pm

closg00 wrote:Oh-oh, Yoda is unimpressed with Zaccarie Risacher, Kevin has not put-out his report yet, but he is saying that this is a weak draft class indeed. :(
Up and down the draft, I have questions. Like, why is Zaccarie Risacher, rated so high? He’s tall and agile, but his production doesn’t jump off the spreadsheet. When some fans on Twitter were comping him to players like Keegan Murray and Otto Porter, I ran him through the YODA version of my statistical doppelganger machine. And came up with Kevin Knox.

https://www.bulletsforever.com/2024/5/21/24161335/washington-wizards-nba-draft-prospect-analysis-alex-sarr-zaccarie-risacher#comments


Why does everyone compare Risacher to his ceiling comps like Otto Porter/Keegan Murray/Michael Porter, but never mention any low end outcomes like Mario Hezonja/Kevin Knox/Harrison Barnes?

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=zaccharie-risacher--keegan-murray--kevin-knox--mario-hezonja--otto-porter
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#562 » by payitforward » Tue May 21, 2024 1:58 pm

Yeah... I can't get comfortable w/ Risacher as our pick. Can't wrap my head around Topic either. Don't know why, really....

At the same time, I suppose, it's worth recognizing that there is always risk associated with every single pick.

If we could find a way to turn our #2 pick into Sheppard & Castle, I'd be ecstatic. But... that seems unlikely. A stretch.

I'd love to exchange our 3 picks for Portland's 4 picks. It seems a fair deal & worth a try. Tho a long shot, obviously....
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#563 » by TGW » Tue May 21, 2024 1:59 pm

Another WizKev banger:

https://www.bulletsforever.com/2024/5/21/24161335/washington-wizards-nba-draft-prospect-analysis-alex-sarr-zaccarie-risacher#comments

Having crunched at least preliminary numbers on this year’s draft prospects, I have finally come around to the oft-repeated claim that this year’s class is weak. I’ve been dubious, in part because of my stat-based system (dubbed Ye Olde Draft Analyzer, YODA for short) would seem to think a few guys would break out and become stars.

This year? Not so much.

There’s more work to be done, but currently Alex Sarr, a French citizen who played professionally in Australia last season, sits atop the rankings. His score in YODA is consistent with the type of player who’d typically rank sixth through eighth.

Up and down the draft, I have questions. Like, why is Zaccarie Risacher, rated so high? He’s tall and agile, but his production doesn’t jump off the spreadsheet. When some fans on Twitter were comping him to players like Keegan Murray and Otto Porter, I ran him through the YODA version of my statistical doppelganger machine. And came up with Kevin Knox.

Is Purdue’s Zach Edey really too slow to be an effective NBA player? I mean, I get how he looks out there, but his lane agility time at the combine was middle of the pack among all players, and was better than a number of guards and wings. His lane agility time was faster than the times of players like Rudy Gobert (by 1.66 seconds, which is a wide margin in this drill), Kawhi Leonard, Daniel Gafford, Julus Randle, Bobby Portis, Tyus Jones, Gary Payton II, Pascal Siakam, Terance Mann, and Nick Richards. He just beat the time posted by Immanuel Quickley (by two 100ths of a second),

Now, his sprint time was fourth slowest at the combine, which could matter in transition. It’s also faster than Gobert ran, and either faster or about the same as guys like Steven Adams, Kelly Olynyk, Siakam, and Naz Reid. I’m not saying Edey is going to be a good NBA player. But if he fails, I don’t think it’ll be because he’s too slow.

In most years, YODA has some disagreements with the consensus view. Sometimes YODA is correct (Tyrese Haliburton) and sometimes not (Jaylen Brown) but never quite to this degree. At this point, five of the players considered to be top 12 picks have scores typically in the range of 2nd rounders or undrafted free agents. This incudes Risacher, Ja’Kobe Walter, Tidjane Salaun, Cody Williams, and Dalton Knecht.

If the scores hold up as I continue researching, YODA would have just 17 players with first round grades — the lowest number since I started doing this in 2010. It’s as if this year’s draft class is missing the top 5-7 prospects in a normal draft. And contrary to what some draft analysts have been saying, YODA doesn’t see much depth either.

We’ll see, of course. Even weak drafts produce some good players, and good players sometimes emerge from prospects who seem less than impressive at the evaluation stage. (By the way, Nikola Jokic is not one of these, at least for me. A couple years ago, I ran him through YODA using only information available at the time — including dings for being slow, ground-bound, and overweight — and he still rated like a top five pick in nearly any draft.)

Anyway, my 75% finished trip through YODA suggests it is indeed a weak draft, especially at the top. The bright side of picking second overall is that the Wizards will have lots of options. The downside: the options aren’t that great this year. Such is life for this franchise.
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#564 » by AFM » Tue May 21, 2024 2:21 pm

Yessir. Dont sleep on that TSW fella.
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#565 » by Castle Black » Tue May 21, 2024 4:37 pm

What's up boys. Spurs fan checkin' in here. I think Risacher will end up being the pick for y'all. I'm personally not a fan of taking a 3&D wing with average athleticism and almost no play-making abilities #2 overall, but that's just me. The result of a weak draft I guess. I think ultimately he will be y'all's pick. The good news is he's likely a safer pick as a good role player with a high floor.

Here's my top-10 mock as of right now:

1. Sarr - ATL
2. Risacher - WAS
3. Sheppard - HOU
4. Castle - SAT
5. Holland - DET
6. Dillingham - CHA
7. Knecht - POR
8. Buzelis - SAT
9. Clingan - MEM
10. Collier - UT
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#566 » by payitforward » Tue May 21, 2024 5:25 pm

Thanks for stopping by. A long trip South from Castle Black -- must be tough to follow a Texas team with the Wildings looking over your shoulder! :)

This board doesn't much like Risacher either; most of us are hoping we don't take either him or Clingan. Topic has some support, but it's hard to get the knee injury out of mind (even though it's said to be minor -- & let's hope so for his sake).

There's support for Sheppard, Castle, Holland & Dillingham.

Here's a question for you: would you trade 4 & 8 for 2 & 26?

Or, how about 4 & 8 for 2 & Kuzma...?
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#567 » by The Consiglieri » Tue May 21, 2024 5:32 pm

DCZards wrote:
Dat2U wrote:Collier is a sleeper. Big and fast, his decision making improved greatly as the season went on. I'm torn between him and Jared McCain as a trade down option. McCain is right there with Sheppard as a shooter and in fact may be more versatile and shows more shot creation. The PG skills are there looking at his HS type although he had an off ball role at Duke.

I'm right with you on Collier and McCain. Collier had a very uneven season--with injuries and stuff. I got a chance to see Collier late in the season and what I saw was a big, physical guard with the ability--and desire--to get to the basket or the FT line. That's a skill that will serve him well at the next level.

I would not be surprised if Collier ends up being one of the top 5 or 6 players in this draft.


He was top 1-3 on a lot of lists 9 months ago. One of my favorite targets to mine in drafts are guys who had lost final seasons in their draft year, especially if the decline is explicable (a lot graduations and resulting team degradation, injuries, off field issues etc). It wouldn't shock me at all if he ended up being a top 5 guy either, he was just before the season started for tons of people. He's a guy worth targeting in a trade down from 2 or a trade up from 26 if he really falls really far.

Sometimes the bad final season is a harbinger of a negative future, but it happens more than enough that it is a harbinger of nothing, other than randomness, and settling on the career valuation going into the draft year is a better idea than fixating on the relatively small sample size in the final season (one of the reasons I really didn't like the Jayden Daniels pick in reverse).
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#568 » by J-Ves » Tue May 21, 2024 5:43 pm

payitforward wrote:Yeah... I can't get comfortable w/ Risacher as our pick. Can't wrap my head around Topic either. Don't know why, really....

At the same time, I suppose, it's worth recognizing that there is always risk associated with every single pick.

If we could find a way to turn our #2 pick into Sheppard & Castle, I'd be ecstatic. But... that seems unlikely. A stretch.

I'd love to exchange our 3 picks for Portland's 4 picks. It seems a fair deal & worth a try. Tho a long shot, obviously....

I would say unlikely is an understatement. No one is trading up in this stinker of a draft
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#569 » by closg00 » Tue May 21, 2024 5:52 pm

DCZards wrote:
Dat2U wrote:Collier is a sleeper. Big and fast, his decision making improved greatly as the season went on. I'm torn between him and Jared McCain as a trade down option. McCain is right there with Sheppard as a shooter and in fact may be more versatile and shows more shot creation. The PG skills are there looking at his HS type although he had an off ball role at Duke.

I'm right with you on Collier and McCain. Collier had a very uneven season--with injuries and stuff. I got a chance to see Collier late in the season and what I saw was a big, physical guard with the ability--and desire--to get to the basket or the FT line. That's a skill that will serve him well at the next level.

I would not be surprised if Collier ends up being one of the top 5 or 6 players in this draft.


Collier is has fallen victim to group-think/conventional wisdom, he is still going to be taken in the lottery I would wager.
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#570 » by NatP4 » Tue May 21, 2024 9:16 pm

Last 10 games: 18.02 points 6.6 rebounds 2.0 assists 1.37 steals 1.5 turnovers 2.5 fouls 66.3% TS

Decreased his foul rate and greatly improved his A/TO ratio over this recent stretch. 129.9 offensive rating 98.8 defensive rating.

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I have Dadiet top 10 at this point.
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#571 » by payitforward » Tue May 21, 2024 9:30 pm

Are you suggesting that we take Dadiet w/ the #2 pick?
Are you suggesting that Dadiet will still be on the board at 26?

If we trade down to take him say in the late lottery, what's a deal that works? With whom?
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#572 » by NatP4 » Tue May 21, 2024 9:38 pm

payitforward wrote:Are you suggesting that we take Dadiet w/ the #2 pick?
Are you suggesting that Dadiet will still be on the board at 26?

If we trade down to take him say in the late lottery, what's a deal that works? With whom?


I’ve been saying that he will be a late riser like Bilal/Jalen Williams/Ousmane Dieng, and end up going 10-14 range.

Either his team goes deep in the BBL playoffs, knocks off powerhouse Bayern Munich, and Dadiet continues to play playoff games deep into June/gets more exposure, or, they get bounced from the playoffs next round, and he attends the NBA global combine event, June 4-6th, and will measure/show well. Rising either way.

My expectation is that we are going to trade Kuzma for another mid 1st round pick and actively pursue acquiring Dadiet in that 10-14 range.
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#573 » by AFM » Tue May 21, 2024 9:46 pm

what the hell is the BBL is that the thang drake got
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#574 » by payitforward » Wed May 22, 2024 12:33 am

NatP4 wrote:
payitforward wrote:Are you suggesting that we take Dadiet w/ the #2 pick?
Are you suggesting that Dadiet will still be on the board at 26?

If we trade down to take him say in the late lottery, what's a deal that works? With whom?

...My expectation is that we are going to trade Kuzma for another mid 1st round pick and actively pursue acquiring Dadiet in that 10-14 range.

Right... you've written to that effect a few times -- & I hope you are correct.
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#575 » by AFM » Wed May 22, 2024 12:43 am

based on...? Seems more like they want him back than anything. Of course they could be saying one thing and thinking another.
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#576 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Wed May 22, 2024 1:18 am

Sorry if this was posted already. Pretty current assessment of Risacher & his recent game....

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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#577 » by Rafael122 » Wed May 22, 2024 3:04 pm

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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#578 » by tontoz » Wed May 22, 2024 3:11 pm

Back when i lived in Atlanta sometimes i went to games early and i would see Josh Smith knocking down 3s routinely.

Until i see it in games i will be skeptical. Not saying Clingan cant do it but at the same time i wont assume he can based on practice.
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#579 » by 80sballboy » Wed May 22, 2024 3:15 pm

I think it's early to say it's a lock that we're taking Saar or Risacher, but...
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Re: 2024 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#580 » by NatP4 » Wed May 22, 2024 3:17 pm

Evan Sidery is not a real source

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