Trade offers for Darius Garland?

[Texas Chuck]

Simmons' health and play has derailed his career. Not Klutch. No matter how much we want to paint them as this great evil.

[AaronB]

Simmons' health and play has derailed his career. Not Klutch. No matter how much we want to paint them as this great evil.

While I don't know the details, it is entirely possible both could be true.

[Chinook]

It's weird that after seeing Simmons' body basically fall apart, people feel more confident he was faking his injury.

[jbk1234]

It's weird that after seeing Simmons' body basically fall apart, people feel more confident he was faking his injury.

Back injuries are tough, but that's not the reason he gave in the summer of his trade demand. It's more than a little revisionist to put the one before the other. It's backwards. In fact, his mental health was the reason he gave for not reporting once the Sixers started putting the money in escrow.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ben-simmons-wont-report-to-training-camp-doesnt-plan-to-ever-play-for-76ers-again-per-report/

[Texas Chuck]

mental health is health. I hope you aren't suggesting otherwise.

[jbk1234]

mental health is health. I hope you aren't suggesting otherwise.

Once again, did you read the post to which I was responding?

[Texas Chuck]

mental health is health. I hope you aren't suggesting otherwise.

Once again, did you read the post to which I was responding?

Yes. But a conversation goes beyond that post. Especially since I pointed out the health issues to begin with and didn't limit it to his back.

But Klutch I guess....

[Chinook]

It's weird that after seeing Simmons' body basically fall apart, people feel more confident he was faking his injury.

Back injuries are tough, but that's not the reason he gave in the summer of his trade demand. It's more than a little revisionist to put the one before the other. It's backwards. In fact, his mental health was the reason he gave for not reporting once the Sixers started putting the money in escrow.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ben-simmons-wont-report-to-training-camp-doesnt-plan-to-ever-play-for-76ers-again-per-report/

Yes, I know. Believe me, I was very active during the time. I was frankly disgusted by the folks who thought Simmons was "spitting in the face of people with 'real' mental illness".

That Simmons has basically been unable to play doesn't suggest he was faking his medical issues. There's no evidence that Klutch either made SImmons fake issues or that their advice caused real issues.

The only thing we've learned is that Simmons would've been a horrible bet for any team to trade for and that Morey is lucky Brooklyn got bent into a position to take him. Whether you're like me and think Simmons was mostly being truthful or you think Simmons was and is on a career-long publicity stunt, the whole situation was a key example of why playing hardball with players doesn't work.

[jbk1234]

mental health is health. I hope you aren't suggesting otherwise.

Once again, did you read the post to which I was responding?

Yes. But a conversation goes beyond that post. Especially since I pointed out the health issues to begin with and didn't limit it to his back.

But Klutch I guess....

And I chose not to respond to your post - for a number of reasons - not the least of which is you want to have the *agency* debate again, in perpetuity really, and I do not.

[Texas Chuck]

Once again, did you read the post to which I was responding?

Yes. But a conversation goes beyond that post. Especially since I pointed out the health issues to begin with and didn't limit it to his back.

But Klutch I guess....

And I chose not to respond to your post - for a number of reasons - not the least of which is you want to have the *agency* debate again, in perpetuity really, and I do not.

You want to blame agents and players for every issue, turning teams into helpless victims and don't want to ever be challenged. You want to just be able to state it as fact.

I think its fair for other posters(including me) to disagree with your assertion--especially in a case like this one where the actual issue is so well known.

You brought Klutch into this not me. Blaming me for that debate.....

[Mr Loggins]

Before Mitchell was traded to CLE, when Garland had his own team, he was a really good offensive initiator both scoring and passing..

People seem to have forgot how good Garland is.

Even last year with Mitchell he was a 22-7 guy with good efficiency, Plus he’s only 24 and signed to a sub-max contract.

This was a tough year for him, but as other have noted getting your jaw broke, losing a bunch of weight (and the strength and conditioning that comes with that) is a huge mitigating factor.

I think cavs will get more than those on this board think

Assuming he's only traded if Mitchell extends and commits to the Cavs-- how much will Klutch's trade demand leak affect the trade value?

It changes the leverage from "We can always just keep him on our team" to -- "Okay, we have to take best offer among interested teams."

Doubt they want to go into next season with Klutch trade demand looming, and other teams know that.

well, klutch narrowed AD’s market to one team, snd new orleand still got a boatload for him

[YayBasketball]

well, klutch narrowed AD’s market to one team, snd new orleand still got a boatload for him

True. Although I see a key difference in this situation. First, Lakers were under extreme pressure to complete that AD trade to keep LeBron happy after missing the playoffs.

And this situation-- Cavs are/ will be under extreme pressure to make and keep Mitchell happy. Would he want to re-sign and commit long term with much roster uncertainty with Garland? Mitchell's status as a top 15ish player will have Cavs making every move with him in mind (even considering Mobley offers). Think resolving the Garland issue, either with a trade or promise to trade before the season, would be a requirement from Mitchell's camp before signing the extension.

[Mr Loggins]

well, klutch narrowed AD’s market to one team, snd new orleand still got a boatload for him

True. Although I see a key difference in this situation. First, Lakers were under extreme pressure to complete that AD trade to keep LeBron happy after missing the playoffs.

And this situation-- Cavs are/ will be under extreme pressure to make and keep Mitchell happy. Would he want to re-sign and commit long term with much roster uncertainty with Garland? Mitchell's status as a top 15ish player will have Cavs making every move with him in mind (even considering Mobley offers). Think resolving the Garland issue, either with a trade or promise to trade before the season, would be a requirement from Mitchell's camp before signing the extension.

maybe, but I would think that if mitchell and the cavs come to the ubderstanding Garland will be traded, Mitchell wouldn’t put a gun to the cavs head and would let them find the best basketball trade, since its in both parties interest.

I think the pressure would come from Garland’s side. But since he’s signed to a long term contract, he doesn’t have nearly as much leverage to force his way to a single team like AD did.

Cavs will be shopping a guy that, prior to this season where he had the broken jaw and subsequent weight loss, was a 22-7 good shooting guy. Under 25. Signed to a sub-max contract. They’ll get a boatload for him

[Devilanche]

Garland is a star or at least real close to it.

Harden is a star. A fading star but still one when he was trade.

Kawhi is a star . Available or otherwise.
Free agent to be PG is also a star for all purpose this free agency.

Theres definitely levels to stars but all of them are.

[JayMKE]

People seem to have forgot how good Garland is.

Even last year with Mitchell he was a 22-7 guy with good efficiency, Plus he’s only 24 and signed to a sub-max contract.

This was a tough year for him, but as other have noted getting your jaw broke, losing a bunch of weight (and the strength and conditioning that comes with that) is a huge mitigating factor.

I think cavs will get more than those on this board think

Assuming he's only traded if Mitchell extends and commits to the Cavs-- how much will Klutch's trade demand leak affect the trade value?

It changes the leverage from "We can always just keep him on our team" to -- "Okay, we have to take best offer among interested teams."

Doubt they want to go into next season with Klutch trade demand looming, and other teams know that.

well, klutch narrowed AD’s market to one team, snd new orleand still got a boatload for him

iirc AD’s list was Lakers, Clippers, Knicks, and randomly the Bucks. He mostly didn’t want to play in Boston.

[Euphonetiks]

iirc AD’s list was Lakers, Clippers, Knicks, and randomly the Bucks. He mostly didn’t want to play in Boston.

Nah, AD's real list was one team long: the Lakers. They put out some other names through Shams at the trade deadline the season before the trade. However, that was intended to make AD look better while he refused to commit to any of those other teams.

But luckily the Lakers had to bid against themselves because of Lebron's timeline. The Laker's couldn't waste another season or even half of a season trying to get the best deal on AD.

[toooskies]

I would just say that Rich Paul put Klutch into the discussion when it was documented that he would have the discussion with the Cavs about trading Garland, and not Garland himself initiating that discussion.

We know more about Rich Paul's feelings on the situation than Garland's.

(And we know that Shams isn't putting Rich Paul into this discussion without his explicit permission.)

[Residual-Heat]

Will he cost more than what the Celtics gave up for Jrue? Or what the Hawks gave up for Murray?

[lordjeff05]

Per our POBO, he wants to add a higher IQ ball handler (not necessarily a pg) who can also contribute offball and an athletic center. Expanding on that, we need players that will help maximize Zion's impact. Zion is difficult to build around due to his shot chart, so spacing will always be a consideration. He also has not been a great defender in the league though he was in college and he has been above average for a couple of years now. I think Herb and Trey are perfect complementary players at the wings.

Names that come up for the ballhandler: DJM, Trae, Garland, top 3 draft pick (guessing Reed), Simons, C. White, Sexton, and others.
Names that come up for the big: WCJ, Isaac, Okongwu, KAT, Allen, Mobley, Stewart, M Robinson, Claxton, Naz, Kessler.

Obviously there are a lot of moving pieces with these. I personally do not think Zion would benefit as much from a rim runner type center because it is really difficult to compensate for having 2/5 of your starting lineup shooting zero 3's. We also had a good defense this year despite having Jonas/Larry at the C position.

I agree with this. Would Garland for Ingram straight up work? Would Pelicans fans rather have Trae, DJM, or Garland for Ingram?

I;d rank it DJM, Garland, then Trae. DJM is probably the mst limited ball handler of the 3 but he has the best defensive ceiling.

[Astaluego]

It's weird that after seeing Simmons' body basically fall apart, people feel more confident he was faking his injury.

Back injuries are tough, but that's not the reason he gave in the summer of his trade demand. It's more than a little revisionist to put the one before the other. It's backwards. In fact, his mental health was the reason he gave for not reporting once the Sixers started putting the money in escrow.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ben-simmons-wont-report-to-training-camp-doesnt-plan-to-ever-play-for-76ers-again-per-report/

In fact, anxiety and depression are closely related to stiffness in the back, neck and head... Ayurveda and integrative medicine explain this, and it is also something that I suffered myself... tension, anxiety and stress can destroy you at incredible levels.