OKC-ORL-NOP-CLE

[Euphonetiks]

If Murphy declines to sign the discount extension he's being offered, it might be worth revisiting.

Pelicans would not move Trey in a Garland trade unless Mobley is included which CLE won't do. Trey fits perfectly with Zion.

[toooskies]

If Murphy declines to sign the discount extension he's being offered, it might be worth revisiting.

Pelicans would not move Trey in a Garland trade unless Mobley is included which CLE won't do. Trey fits perfectly with Zion.

I like Trey Murphy. He's efficient and a very good young player. I'd target him at a reasonable and possibly slightly unreasonable price if I were a team trading NOP for a wing.

But there's a non-zero chance that a player who's never hit 20% usage simply doesn't evolve past being the fourth option in the offense. Or worse, you try to force more offense through him and it doesn't work, like Harrison Barnes in Dallas.

NOP may be making a mistake counting on the "fits perfectly" thing. He fits because he takes what he's given and doesn't try to carry the team, but from time to time you'll need someone besides Zion to carry the team and Murphy may not be able to do it. He might "fit perfectly" as a 3rd or 4th high-efficiency option like he is now and fail when given a promotion.

And then you might get stuck overpaying a 3rd or 4th option as a #2, on a team that's already going to have tax trouble because of Zion, CJ, and Ingram (or whatever salaries an Ingram trade gets you).

As a fan, it's perfectly fine to have faith that Trey will become the guy you hope he will. As a front office, you have to play out the scenarios and acknowledge downsides. You have to look at Murphy not stepping up in the playoffs as much as you look at Ingram not stepping up in the playoffs.

[jbk1234]

If Murphy declines to sign the discount extension he's being offered, it might be worth revisiting.

Pelicans would not move Trey in a Garland trade unless Mobley is included which CLE won't do. Trey fits perfectly with Zion.

If they can't get together on an extension number and the Cavs take back CJ, I'm less sure. Especially if Ingram's market is less robust than the Pelicans are hoping.

[Euphonetiks]

If Murphy declines to sign the discount extension he's being offered, it might be worth revisiting.

Pelicans would not move Trey in a Garland trade unless Mobley is included which CLE won't do. Trey fits perfectly with Zion.

I like Trey Murphy. He's efficient and a very good young player. I'd target him at a reasonable and possibly slightly unreasonable price if I were a team trading NOP for a wing.

But there's a non-zero chance that a player who's never hit 20% usage simply doesn't evolve past being the fourth option in the offense. Or worse, you try to force more offense through him and it doesn't work, like Harrison Barnes in Dallas.

NOP may be making a mistake counting on the "fits perfectly" thing. He fits because he takes what he's given and doesn't try to carry the team, but from time to time you'll need someone besides Zion to carry the team and Murphy may not be able to do it. He might "fit perfectly" as a 3rd or 4th high-efficiency option like he is now and fail when given a promotion.

And then you might get stuck overpaying a 3rd or 4th option as a #2, on a team that's already going to have tax trouble because of Zion, CJ, and Ingram (or whatever salaries an Ingram trade gets you).

As a fan, it's perfectly fine to have faith that Trey will become the guy you hope he will. As a front office, you have to play out the scenarios and acknowledge downsides. You have to look at Murphy not stepping up in the playoffs as much as you look at Ingram not stepping up in the playoffs.

Trey is no sure thing, but his DEEP spacing on volume with the ability to defend fits really, really well with Zion attacking the rim. I think he has more to his game, but he might max out as an elite shooting 6'10" wing who can defend. I think we take that risk.

His playoff performance without Zion was disppointing and our FO will listen to offers, but we are not moving him for a small guard like Garland who has his own warts. It would take a real star to pry Trey loose from New Orleans as evidenced by the reports that to make room for Trey, we are trading Ingram, a player comparable to Garland.

[Euphonetiks]

If Murphy declines to sign the discount extension he's being offered, it might be worth revisiting.

Pelicans would not move Trey in a Garland trade unless Mobley is included which CLE won't do. Trey fits perfectly with Zion.

If they can't get together on an extension number and the Cavs take back CJ, I'm less sure. Especially if Ingram's market is less robust than the Pelicans are hoping.

Ah yes, the 'value our players at their peak and opposing players at their bottom' method. The Pels are not looking to dump CJ this offseason. We especially aren't looking to use Trey to dump CJ.

You really think the FO that made a conscious decision to build around Zion and constantly talks about needing to get more 3PA, is going to trade away 40% of their made 3's from last year?? No.

[jbk1234]

Pelicans would not move Trey in a Garland trade unless Mobley is included which CLE won't do. Trey fits perfectly with Zion.

If they can't get together on an extension number and the Cavs take back CJ, I'm less sure. Especially if Ingram's market is less robust than the Pelicans are hoping.

Ah yes, the 'value our players at their peak and opposing players at their bottom' method. The Pels are not looking to dump CJ this offseason. We especially aren't looking to use Trey to dump CJ.

You really think the FO that made a conscious decision to build around Zion and constantly talks about needing to get more 3PA, is going to trade away 40% of their made 3's from last year?? No.

If you think CJ is going to improve his trade value at 33 years of age next season, then that's what you think. If you think Murphy is essentially untouchable, but that he's definitely going to sign an extension for half of what he could get, then that's what you think. If you think the Pelicans have concluded Ingram on a vet max isn't good value, but he'd be great value for other teams on that same contract, then that's what you think. If you think the Pelicans No. 1 priority should be fit around Zion, a player who hasn't been able stay healthy, then that's what you think.

Nothing I'm going to say will change your mind.

[Euphonetiks]

If they can't get together on an extension number and the Cavs take back CJ, I'm less sure. Especially if Ingram's market is less robust than the Pelicans are hoping.

Ah yes, the 'value our players at their peak and opposing players at their bottom' method. The Pels are not looking to dump CJ this offseason. We especially aren't looking to use Trey to dump CJ.

You really think the FO that made a conscious decision to build around Zion and constantly talks about needing to get more 3PA, is going to trade away 40% of their made 3's from last year?? No.

If you think CJ is going to improve his trade value at 33 years of age next season, then that's what you think. If you think Murphy is essentially untouchable, but that he's definitely going to sign an extension for half of what he could get, then that's what you think. If you think the Pelicans have concluded Ingram on a vet max isn't good value, but he'd be great value for other teams on that same contract, then that's what you think. If you think the Pelicans No. 1 priority should be fit around Zion, a player who hasn't been able stay healthy, then that's what you think.

Nothing I'm going to say will change your mind.

Again, do you really believe a FO who priotizes 3PA and is building around Zion is going to move 40% of their made 3's to help Cleveland out? Nothing I am going to say will change your mind because of your Cavs' tribalism, but that is not going to happen.

I think CJ's salary is easier to move as an expiring next offseason. I think the Pels are not moving Murphy for Garland because of his fit with Zion. I think Trey will sign an extension for security purposes because he's only made $10M, but I have never said he will take half of what he could get. If they cannot work out an extension, Trey is still an RFA and not going anywhere. If Trey plays well enough to earn a 25% max offer in restricted free agency next offseason, cool, then he's added playmaking to his game and we have a really, really good player next to Zion. I never said Ingram was a great value on a 30% max, but I am confident there will be a market for him despite having only 1 year remaining because there aren't a lot of 6'8" wings available who can put up 24.7/5.5/5.8 on .582 TS%. I think the Pelicans priority is roster building around Zion because that is what they have indicated and reports have stated.

Sorry the Cavs can't have Trey.

[jbk1234]

Ah yes, the 'value our players at their peak and opposing players at their bottom' method. The Pels are not looking to dump CJ this offseason. We especially aren't looking to use Trey to dump CJ.

You really think the FO that made a conscious decision to build around Zion and constantly talks about needing to get more 3PA, is going to trade away 40% of their made 3's from last year?? No.

If you think CJ is going to improve his trade value at 33 years of age next season, then that's what you think. If you think Murphy is essentially untouchable, but that he's definitely going to sign an extension for half of what he could get, then that's what you think. If you think the Pelicans have concluded Ingram on a vet max isn't good value, but he'd be great value for other teams on that same contract, then that's what you think. If you think the Pelicans No. 1 priority should be fit around Zion, a player who hasn't been able stay healthy, then that's what you think.

Nothing I'm going to say will change your mind.

Again, do you really believe a FO who priotizes 3PA and is building around Zion is going to move 40% of their made 3's to help Cleveland out? Nothing I am going to say will change your mind because of your Cavs' tribalism, but that is not going to happen.

I think CJ's salary is easier to move as an expiring next offseason. I think the Pels are not moving Murphy for Garland because of his fit with Zion. I think Trey will sign an extension for security purposes because he's only made $10M, but I have never said he will take half of what he could get. If they cannot work out an extension, Trey is still an RFA and not going anywhere. If Trey plays well enough to earn a 25% max offer in restricted free agency next offseason, cool, then he's added playmaking to his game and we have a really, really good player next to Zion. I never said Ingram was a great value on a 30% max, but I am confident there will be a market for him despite having only 1 year remaining because there aren't a lot of 6'8" wings available who can put up 24.7/5.5/5.8 on .582 TS%. I think the Pelicans priority is roster building around Zion because that is what they have indicated and reports have stated.

Sorry the Cavs can't have Trey.

Apparently, we found David Griffin's sock account.

[Euphonetiks]

Apparently, we found David Griffin's sock account.

Are you okay?

I'm now a sock puppet account for pointing out the glaring flaw in one of your ridiculous Cavs get everything trade ideas.

[jbk1234]

Apparently, we found David Griffin's sock account.

Are you okay?

I'm now a sock puppet account for pointing out the glaring flaw in one of your ridiculous Cavs get everything trade ideas.

You're speaking as though you run the Pelicans.

[Euphonetiks]

Apparently, we found David Griffin's sock account.

Are you okay?

I'm now a sock puppet account for pointing out the glaring flaw in one of your ridiculous Cavs get everything trade ideas.

You're speaking as though you run the Pelicans.

Because I pointed out that the Pelicans are not moving 40% of their made 3's in an offseason?

I don't think it takes a front office position to know that a team which has openly stated it wants to maximize spacing will be exceedingly unlikely to trade away their 2 best shooters.

[jbk1234]

Are you okay?

I'm now a sock puppet account for pointing out the glaring flaw in one of your ridiculous Cavs get everything trade ideas.

You're speaking as though you run the Pelicans.

Because I pointed out that the Pelicans are not moving 40% of their made 3's in an offseason?

I don't think it takes a front office position to know that a team which has openly stated it wants to maximize spacing will be exceedingly unlikely to trade away their 2 best shooters.

Garland gives you back half of that immediately, but that aside, you are very much communicating as though the decision is yours.

[Euphonetiks]

Garland gives you back half of that immediately, but that aside, you are very much communicating as though the decision is yours.

Pels lose 10 3PA per game in that trade: Garland - 6.2, CJ/Trey 16.2. The Pels were 24th in the league in 3PA/gm last year and want to maxmimize spacing. We cannot afford to lose 10 3PA/gm.

I apologize for communicating as though the decision were mine. I'm sure you have never done that in multiple active threads.

[jbk1234]

Garland gives you back half of that immediately, but that aside, you are very much communicating as though the decision is yours.

Pels lose 10 3PA per game in that trade: Garland - 6.2, CJ/Trey 16.2. The Pels were 24th in the league in 3PA/gm last year and want to maxmimize spacing. We cannot afford to lose 10 3PA/gm.

I apologize for communicating as though the decision were mine. I'm sure you have never done that in multiple active threads.

Real talk, CJ got away with all those attempts because Ingram was the de facto PG. He finished with more assists than CJ. If Ingram is in the out box, Derrick White or Marcus Smart are the only PGs who can effectively share the court with CJ, and I see no way Boston lets go of White.

[Euphonetiks]

Garland gives you back half of that immediately, but that aside, you are very much communicating as though the decision is yours.

Pels lose 10 3PA per game in that trade: Garland - 6.2, CJ/Trey 16.2. The Pels were 24th in the league in 3PA/gm last year and want to maxmimize spacing. We cannot afford to lose 10 3PA/gm.

I apologize for communicating as though the decision were mine. I'm sure you have never done that in multiple active threads.

Real talk, CJ got away with all those attempts because Ingram was the de facto PG. He finished with more assists than CJ. If Ingram is in the out box, Derrick White or Marcus Smart are the only PGs who can effectively share the court with CJ, and I see no way Boston lets go of White.

BI had more assists than CJ last year too. I think CJ's increased 3PAr (.404 to .528) was more tied to his minutes with Zion jumping from 620 to 1350. Z also had more asissts than CJ this year.