(Lock Thread)The LeBron James- 23-24 NBA Playoffs & Off-Season Thread -(NO PERSONAL ATTACKS & BAITING)

[Heej]

CAN WE GET BACK TO FOCUSING ON THE LAKERS FA AND TRADE TARGETS/LEBRON'S FA CHOICE TO LEAVE

LeBron is the GOAT, he’s the only player who has his physicals compared to a bioengineered creation of destruction

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Haha NGL that's pretty funny. Screamin A has his moments of endearment

[AEnigma]

It's so interesting that the LeBron defender strategy has been tearing down the guy that just beat your guy in 5 and swept him the year before

Wouldn't it be more honorable to go out like that to a legit all-time great rather than some overhyped pretender?

I have a lot to learn

You know you can just defend Jokic instead of mindreading the motivations of those who criticize him?

Lebron also beat Jokic in 5 much removed from his peak than Jokic was so..,

I've found your analysis specifically on Jokic to be really well-considered and informative. I've thought Jokic has skated by with very little scrutiny on his flaws, especially for a guy who's racking up MVPs and considered one of the all-timers already.

But you're not gonna convince me that this broader Jokic convo on the PC board since G2 vs Minny has absolutely nothing to do with Lebron.

It has something to do with him, but I would not make the mistake of thinking only “Lebron fans” object to the gross inflation of Jokic’s place in league history. When large swaths of the internet (and this is primarily an online narrative, but we are talking in an online forum) cluster behind him as a top two or three peak because of BPM and PER, yeah, that is going to piss off people who appreciate the game’s history, appreciate defence, or even just do not see why his contemporary Giannis was constantly criticised for a weak title run and potentially exploitable skill limitations while none of that has been popularly levied against Jokic.

Now, Giannis also avoided the backlash because he was never elevated into top five discussions the way Jokic has been. But I suspect the crowing if he had would look similar. No one objects to Jokic as a top 15-20 peak. He looked like one this postseason. Unfortunately, merely top 15-20 was not at all how he was being portrayed.

[TroubleS0me]

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[Ian Scuffling]

CAN WE GET BACK TO FOCUSING ON THE LAKERS FA AND TRADE TARGETS/LEBRON'S FA CHOICE TO LEAVE

LeBron is the GOAT, he’s the only player who has his physicals compared to a bioengineered creation of destruction

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Haha NGL that's pretty funny. Screamin A has his moments of endearment

Few and far between, but he can laugh at himself, sometimes, which is a good trait.

[Ian Scuffling]

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Well, to be fair to Gilbert and Koby, Jaquez Jr. and Herro are better than anything not named Lebron or AD from the Lakers. But, come on Dan. Make the Lebron back to the Cavs dream come true

[TroubleS0me]

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[rk2023]

Where I’m at regarding Lakers offseason

• Hoping Dlo opts in (depends on the Magic, I guess) and can be traded in a one year. As for destinations, hoping Brooklyn (netting DFS / Sharpe / Whitehead, any 2 here) or TOR for Bruce Brown.
• If the 17th pick is kept, I’d love DaRon Holmes (Dayton) or Devin Carter (Providence). In this draft, there’s no young player at that point with a ceiling worth investing in. Therefore, I think it makes sense to get the best combination of fit + floor/readiness. Plus we all saw the JHS selection, which could have been used for a legit bench piece.
• If they’re available at 55, I’d love Cam Spencer or Mark Sears (worth trading up for too, imo)
• See what JHS, Rui, Gabe, a 2029 FRP could net (some combination of these assets, could be included in a Dlo trade imo)
• CP3 on a vet min (if he opts out), RoCo too, would be great imo
• Use the MLE on a backup big-man, I’d like Goga Bitadze or Jalen Smith for example. Other MLE candidates are Kris Dunn or D. Melton imo
• Bronny as a UDFA would be cool too I guess, I’m unsure if he’s a draftable prospect atp.
• Non Mitchell trade candidates I’d be really excited for are Mikal, Sexton, or Alex Caruso. I’m not getting my hopes up on a Lauri deal at all, it’s not happening.

[thebigbird]

But but it’s just a persecution complex by LeBron fans.

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[sp6r=underrated]

But but it’s just a persecution complex by LeBron fans.

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I consider Lebron the clear GOAT, have him on a tier above guys ranked 2-4 but the hagiography NBC offered MJ was really bad and dishonest. If you give me the choice between how ESPN covered Lebron or NBC covered MJ I'll take the former. NBC basically pretended that the Bulls 6-peated, had MJ's friend Rashad as sideline reporter. It was a joke.

The issue isn't that Lebron is unfairly targeted. It is that MJ was insanely protected by the basketball press.

Tabling Lebron, ESPN isn't good for the NBA (or any sports league). Their obsession with SAS is a good example of why they're bad. The SAS/Skip Bayless carnival barkers aren't like Barkley. Barkley is a terrible analyst but he is genuinely likeable. People enjoy watching him, even those that know his analysis is stupid. SAS/Skip are terrible. Outside of their fans they are repellant. Embrace the debate shows get small audiences. ESPN's decision to make their pre-game shows mirror their trash daytime programming is why no watches em.

sadly the ideal outcome NBC (or CBS) and Turner isn't likely.

[sp6r=underrated]

CAN WE GET BACK TO FOCUSING ON THE LAKERS FA AND TRADE TARGETS/LEBRON'S FA CHOICE TO LEAVE

Why would we want to do that? It’s just depressing. The Lakers’ FO is brain dead, they’re going to make a terrible coaching hire, and LeBron unfortunately won’t leave LA. They have limited options in free agency, and trading first rounders for an undersized point guard like Trae Young does nothing to fix their problems. The only way LeBron competes for another championship at this stage is if he goes to another team.

^^^^thebigbird's not wrong, ya know. It's why I've really stopped caring about him winning anything, anymore. He seems to have stopped, so why should I care? That's not even a value judgment on him, either. It's his life and if he's happy, then good on him. That really is great. As a fan it sucks, but reality sometimes does.

Yup, Lebron is a really smart guy. He knew LA's mgmt., was trash and had been trash since the Paul fiasco. He decided to go there for non-basketball reasons. Same way lots of players sign with bad teams for $$$ or because they're close to home (think Melo to NYC). He managed to get em over the hump once but given the roster it is very unlikely he can do it again.

But he seems happy out there. He's one of the world's biggest celebrities. And LA offers the highest QOL/financial opportunities for those with entertainment ambitions. So it is what it is.

[sp6r=underrated]

I just think there's a general persecution complex among at least some factions of online Bron fandom that is, to put it mildly, unfitting of a player who's so undeniably great.

I don't really care if Skip Bayless called him Queen James in 2011, today he's acknowledged as one of the greatest athletes, not even just limited to basketball, in American history. Have a little self-respect

Just my perspective, and I don't think there's a "wrong" way to be a fan per se. Maybe this is a broader phenomena and I'm singling out LeBron fans unfairly

This. The media isn't overly biased for Lebron. he isn't subject to awful coverage the way his fans think.

The issue is a lot of James want the MJ BS coverage in which the basketball press is 100% in the tank for Lebron 24/7. That doesn't happen. It is a good thing that Lebron doesn't get that and it is a shame MJ does get the biased coverage.

MJ beating up teammates is considered leadership in the media. That's nuts but it isn't anti-Lebron. MJ quitting basketball is considered a plus. That's crazy but it isn't anti-Lebron. 6 > 4 but 11 being way > 6 is considered irrelevant. That is insanely biased but it isn't anti-Lebron.

It is the cult of MJ that is somehow still going strong. For reasons I still struggle to understand the press embraced MJ to a comical extent that I've never seen mirrored with any other US athlete. That includes Tom Brady.

[Special_Puppy]

I just think there's a general persecution complex among at least some factions of online Bron fandom that is, to put it mildly, unfitting of a player who's so undeniably great.

I don't really care if Skip Bayless called him Queen James in 2011, today he's acknowledged as one of the greatest athletes, not even just limited to basketball, in American history. Have a little self-respect

Just my perspective, and I don't think there's a "wrong" way to be a fan per se. Maybe this is a broader phenomena and I'm singling out LeBron fans unfairly

This. The media isn't overly biased for Lebron. he isn't subject to awful coverage the way his fans think.

The issue is a lot of James want the MJ BS coverage in which the basketball press is 100% in the tank for Lebron 24/7. That doesn't happen. It is a good thing that Lebron doesn't get that and it is a shame MJ does get the biased coverage.

MJ beating up teammates is considered leadership in the media. That's nuts but it isn't anti-Lebron. MJ quitting basketball is considered a plus. That's crazy but it isn't anti-Lebron. 6 > 4 but 11 being way > 6 is considered irrelevant. That is insanely biased but it isn't anti-Lebron.

It is the cult of MJ that is somehow still going strong. For reasons I still struggle to understand the press embraced MJ to a comical extent that I've never seen mirrored with any other US athlete. That includes Tom Brady.

Its not just the press. MJ is by far the most popular athlete of the past 30 years domestically. The press is made up of people so that bleeds over to coverage
https://www.si.com/.image/t_share/MjA0NTQ4MzQ2ODI2NzI5NDAx/americans-favorite-pro-athlete.png

[trickshot]

Love Jokic but I'm rocking with the Lebrons on this one. As with Kawhi in 2020, every new hypejob rival to his legacy finds out going all the way is incredibly difficullt when you exclusively play opponents you're expected to steamroll, opps who have no expectations to live up to.

[TroubleS0me]

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[ronnymac2]

CAN WE GET BACK TO FOCUSING ON THE LAKERS FA AND TRADE TARGETS/LEBRON'S FA CHOICE TO LEAVE

LeBron is the GOAT, he’s the only player who has his physicals compared to a bioengineered creation of destruction

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I'm pretty sure the Unnerve ability just means LeBron can't eat berries or something.

[Mazter]

In 2003 Jordan retired averaging 20.0/6.1/3.8, not having played a play off game in 5 years

In 2017 Kobe retired averaging 17.6/3.1/3.7, not having played a play off game in 4 years

In 2024 LeBron should retire because he averaged 25.7/7.3/8.3 after leading his team to 47 wins and being eliminated in 5 by the defending champs.

Just for reference, only 6 other players in history averaged 25/7/8, none of them past their 30's.

You are tarnishing your legacy.
WHY CAN''T YOU RETIRE ALREADY???!!!!

[Ian Scuffling]

It gets even better when you add efficiency numbers. The trolls and MJ/Kobe stans suddenly want to see those when averages show their guy to be on the losing side of a comparison. However, that's a really bad thing to want when comparing to Lebron. Let's see. Lebron last year had 63% TS. Damn. Jordan's last year it was 49% TS. Ouch. Kobe's last year it was 47% TS. Bigger ouch. The media, per usual, is dead in the water on this one.

[tsherkin]

It gets even better when you add efficiency numbers. The trolls and MJ/Kobe stans suddenly want to see those when averages show their guy to be on the losing side of a comparison. However, that's a really bad thing to want when comparing to Lebron. Let's see. Lebron last year had 63% TS. Damn. Jordan's last year it was 49% TS. Ouch. Kobe's last year it was 47% TS. Bigger ouch. The media, per usual, is dead in the water on this one.

For sure, if you step away from being threatened by Lebron, his performance late into his career is remarkable. His longevity is the best we've seen in terms of maintenance of his relevance and league-relative performance. Jordan, there were some injuries which derailed his ability to maintain, of course. Artest with his ribs before the first season, chronic issues with that knee. But that's part of it, right? Jordan took time off, whereas Lebron has continued on through. Jordan slacked on his training regimen some and all that, and he was mostly a quickness-oriented guy without Lebron's size or power. Brilliant mid-range shooter, and that did allow him to exert an impact on the team's offense which did not show in his individual efficiency. Floor-raising type stuff on a bad team, very much like 01 Iverson. It still counts, but Lebron is obviously doing a lot better even once you adjust for era.

Lebron is incredible. Whether or not you think he's the GOAT, there should be a baseline admiration and respect for what he has achieved, and for what he continues to do. He's the best player ever at anything like this age by a WIIIIIDE margin, and even if you're all like "braaaaaaah, modern league is for wimps, OFFENSIVE INFLATION" and all that whiner BS, he's still doing stuff we didn't see in any other era of NBA basketball at this age. Even from brilliant physical specimens.

[PistolPeteJR]

It gets even better when you add efficiency numbers. The trolls and MJ/Kobe stans suddenly want to see those when averages show their guy to be on the losing side of a comparison. However, that's a really bad thing to want when comparing to Lebron. Let's see. Lebron last year had 63% TS. Damn. Jordan's last year it was 49% TS. Ouch. Kobe's last year it was 47% TS. Bigger ouch. The media, per usual, is dead in the water on this one.

I agree to a good extent, except you can't compare raw TS% between the three. Rather, compare to league average in those years given the difference in the game.

[tsherkin]

It gets even better when you add efficiency numbers. The trolls and MJ/Kobe stans suddenly want to see those when averages show their guy to be on the losing side of a comparison. However, that's a really bad thing to want when comparing to Lebron. Let's see. Lebron last year had 63% TS. Damn. Jordan's last year it was 49% TS. Ouch. Kobe's last year it was 47% TS. Bigger ouch. The media, per usual, is dead in the water on this one.

I agree to a good extent, except you can't compare raw TS% between the three. Rather, compare to league average in those years given the difference in the game.

Sure, but...

2003 Jordan: -2.8% rTS
2016 Kobe: -7.2% rTS
2024 Lebron: +5 rTS

It clarifies things rather quickly.