Potential Zach Trade Partners? 24/25 Edition

[Red8911]

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Klutch deep at work.

Zach to LA confirmed. Reaves vs Zach discussion will have to resume after this.

[MrSparkle]

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Klutch deep at work.

Zach to LA confirmed. Reaves vs Zach discussion will have to resume after this.

I still don’t think LA gives up Reaves. Not unless Bulls give up something significant (like Caruso). Thing is, between his contract, playmaking, age and health, Reaves is a much better asset 1:1.

I think Lakers would want to give up their leftovers (D’Lo and Gabe). So maybe you could get them to throw in several FRP swaps 25 & 26, possibly top-10 protected FRP: 2029. Which imo is a lame trade, but not the worst. You get a competent PG, a 3P bench shooter, a bunch of cap relief, and maybe 1 legit shot at a lucky break in 2026 with the swap.

If you add Caruso (and more salaries from LA), then I could see them making a more expanded trade with Reaves, and perhaps less protection on that pick (top-4?). I also think we’d have to take the oft injured Vanderbilt. I don’t particularly want Lakers’ crap. I think cap relief and a few longshot FRP options are OK, if nothing else emerges on the market.

[SouthernBull]

Klutch deep at work.

Zach to LA confirmed. Reaves vs Zach discussion will have to resume after this.

I still don’t think LA gives up Reaves. Not unless Bulls give up something significant (like Caruso). Thing is, between his contract, playmaking, age and health, Reaves is a much better asset 1:1.

I think Lakers would want to give up their leftovers (D’Lo and Gabe). So maybe you could get them to throw in several FRP swaps 25 & 26, possibly top-10 protected FRP: 2029. Which imo is a lame trade, but not the worst. You get a competent PG, a 3P bench shooter, a bunch of cap relief, and maybe 1 legit shot at a lucky break in 2026 with the swap.

If you add Caruso (and more salaries from LA), then I could see them making a more expanded trade with Reaves, and perhaps less protection on that pick (top-4?). I also think we’d have to take the oft injured Vanderbilt. I don’t particularly want Lakers’ crap. I think cap relief and a few longshot FRP options are OK, if nothing else emerges on the market.

Whatever we can do to dump this contract and not take on additional long term $$$

[Jcool0]

Klutch deep at work.

Zach to LA confirmed. Reaves vs Zach discussion will have to resume after this.

I still don’t think LA gives up Reaves. Not unless Bulls give up something significant (like Caruso). Thing is, between his contract, playmaking, age and health, Reaves is a much better asset 1:1.

I think Lakers would want to give up their leftovers (D’Lo and Gabe). So maybe you could get them to throw in several FRP swaps 25 & 26, possibly top-10 protected FRP: 2029. Which imo is a lame trade, but not the worst. You get a competent PG, a 3P bench shooter, a bunch of cap relief, and maybe 1 legit shot at a lucky break in 2026 with the swap.

If you add Caruso (and more salaries from LA), then I could see them making a more expanded trade with Reaves, and perhaps less protection on that pick (top-4?). I also think we’d have to take the oft injured Vanderbilt. I don’t particularly want Lakers’ crap. I think cap relief and a few longshot FRP options are OK, if nothing else emerges on the market.

DLo isn't opting in so that's not an option. No one is giving up a all star or fringe all star to LA for nothing.

[burlydee]

If Reaves is off limits for the Lakers, than they have to throw in picks. Its also hard to make salaries work. I can't see why the Bulls would want Gabe Vincent when they have Carter. Lakers are also an over apron team and need to match salaries as close as possible.

Basically, I think if Lebron and Clutch push this through, Reaves has got to be in the deal. As do Rui and Vanderbilt for salary purposes.

Reaves, Rui, and Vanderbilt for Lavine.

Coby / Ayo / Carter
Reaves / Caruso
Derozan / (P Will/Caruso) / Terry
Pat Williams / Rui / Vanderbilt
Vuc / (Rui/Vanderbilt) / #11 pick

This seems like a trade AK would be chomping at the bit to do.

[kodo]

https://www.inquirer.com/sixers/sixers-nba-free-agency-paul-george-lebron-james-daryl-morey-20240526.html?utm_source=t.co&utm_campaign=edit_social_share_twitter_traffic&utm_medium=social&utm_content=&utm_term=&int_promo=

The Sixers do have their eyes on other lucrative-salary impact players just in case they don’t get George. That’s why they also are looking at potential free agents like the Los Angeles Lakers’ LeBron James and New York Knicks forward OG Anunoby. If not in free agency, the Sixers believe they can use their draft assets and available cap space to acquire a difference-maker via a trade. That has led to Miami Heat forward Jimmy Butler, Chicago Bulls guard Zach LaVine, and New Orleans Pelicans forward Brandon Ingram being among trade interests.

I think the most interesting part of this isn't the overall news, but the severe disconnect between what the general NBA thinks of Lavine (listed among players like Butler & Ingram) and here in Chicago where people think Lavine is so bad we need to attach picks to move him.

[ChiefILL53]

Trading Zach to the lakers would have to include reaves. I doubt DLo exercises his player option just to help them facilitate a trade when he can go to a team with space and shot attempts.

[Stratmaster]

Benching your (at the time) prolific scoring all-star player down the stretch with the only explanation being that he was having a cold shooting night is pretty much unheard of in the NBA. It's about the worst thing a coach could do to insult a player of that caliber.

I don't think that's true at all. I don't think a one time benching for a non superstar, one way offensive star that hurts you in other areas of the game when he's having a bad shooting night is unheard of at all or a thing that should be unrecoverable at all.

From what I've heard in my private conversations with media people, Zach never got over it, but that really feels like a Zach problem and not a Donovan problem.

Add that Zach has been Billy's scapegoat since Billy got here, and Donovan almost never defends Lavine like he does other players, and you have to assume that Billy really doesn't care for Zach.

I don't think that's true either. That might be true in the last year, but it definitely hasn't been true of his entire tenure, and again, Zach appears to be the one holding a grudge over something stupid. Even if you take the stance that Billy shouldn't have done that, Zach shouldn't have been pissed about it for more than a day.

To your point though, the relationship is burnt. They probably can be cordial with each other and work together, but this is where the human element really comes into play. I'm sure all of us can relate to working with a boss we didn't like or whom we didn't think believed in us or have our best interest at heart, it's really hard to give your best effort in that situation and Zach probably feels that way.

For those in management, if you've also had to manage someone whom you feel is at least partially checked out because they didn't handle feedback well, won't do the things you ask, doesn't seem motivate, it's hard for you to continue to put your time and effort into that person knowing you're unlikely to get much return on it.

It's a scenario that from a human perspective is going to remain sub-optimal unless there is a real sit down where people can legitimately move forward, but that's really hard because each minor thing going forward will just pick at old wounds even if you can temporarily get on the same page.

Maybe I am wrong. Give me an example of another 36 mpg player who was scoring 25 ppg on a .600+ TS clip who was benched down the stretch with the coach citing his early game offense (shooting) as the reason. You may feel it should be more accepted (hell, as I think about it, I MAY feel it should be more accepted). But I don't think it is.

Billy has allowed Zach to be the scapegoat since almost day one. He obviously doesn't come out and name him. He supports the narratives with public comments about style of play that are obviously pointed at Zach, and if he defends Zach at all against any criticisms, it's always lukewarm. Compare it to the way he responds to questions about Demars style of play. There really hasn't ever been any question which player he respects, and which one he doesn't. You may agree with him. It may all be substantiated. But it certainly doesn't show any personnel skills or savvy.

In the post you quoted from I stated that I think it is both their fault. I don't want to jump to conclusions about your opinion. Are you saying you think Donovan has handled Zach Lavine well since he took over as head coach?

how about Vuc? Has he handled Vuc properly?

How about Demar? Has he handled Demar at all?

How about the Coby and Ayo teeter-totter?

[dougthonus]

Maybe I am wrong. Give me an example of another 36 mpg player who was scoring 25 ppg on a .600+ TS clip who was benched down the stretch with the coach citing his early game offense (shooting) as the reason. You may feel it should be more accepted (hell, as I think about it, I MAY feel it should be more accepted). But I don't think it is.

Ignoring your statistical metrics because I don't think they're relevant, and just say, name a player of similar star caliber that was benched, here are a few playoff examples:

KAT was just benched in a WCF game for playing poorly.
DeMar was benched in a playoff game against the Cavs in 2018.
Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love were both benched in the playoffs against the Pacers after a poor first half and the Cavs ended up with a 20 point come from behind win.

I feel like it happens in the regular season with at least some regularity. I know Harden has been benched at end of games before when he's had off nights same with Russell Westbrook.

Billy has allowed Zach to be the scapegoat since almost day one. He obviously doesn't come out and name him. He supports the narratives with public comments about style of play that are obviously pointed at Zach, and if he defends Zach at all against any criticisms, it's always lukewarm. Compare it to the way he responds to questions about Demars style of play. There really hasn't ever been any question which player he respects, and which one he doesn't. You may agree with him. It may all be substantiated. But it certainly doesn't show any personnel skills or savvy.

If Zach can't handle the way Billy handles the press then I'm not sure what to tell you, but I doubt it will be better for him anywhere else, and it sounds like a Zach problem. I've not watched post game interviews of tons of coaches, mostly only Bulls coaches, but Billy has to be the softest and most well spoken of any coach we've had in terms of handing out criticism to the press.

In the post you quoted from I stated that I think it is both their fault. I don't want to jump to conclusions about your opinion. Are you saying you think Donovan has handled Zach Lavine well since he took over as head coach?

To the extent there is fault, based on the information I have, I think it's primarily Zach's fault, because the information I have from private conversations with multiple people whom directly talk with Zach and Donovan is that the feud is basically a one way feud of Zach holding onto something and never getting past it. Maybe information proves wrong, but I have no reason to think it is, and it's what I have to go on.

how about Vuc? Has he handled Vuc properly?

How about Demar? Has he handled Demar at all?

How about the Coby and Ayo teeter-totter?

On point to the conversation we are having about player / coach relationships, my guess is yes, he treats all those guys well and they all like him. I think from a standpoint of defending your players and communicating with them that Donovan is probably among the best in the league.

If you are shifting the topic to something else about how he manages rotations or does something else, that seems like an entirely different topic all together.

[Stratmaster]

Maybe I am wrong. Give me an example of another 36 mpg player who was scoring 25 ppg on a .600+ TS clip who was benched down the stretch with the coach citing his early game offense (shooting) as the reason. You may feel it should be more accepted (hell, as I think about it, I MAY feel it should be more accepted). But I don't think it is.

Ignoring your statistical metrics because I don't think they're relevant, and just say, name a player of similar star caliber that was benched, here are a few playoff examples:

KAT was just benched in a WCF game for playing poorly.
DeMar was benched in a playoff game against the Cavs in 2018.
Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love were both benched in the playoffs against the Pacers after a poor first half and the Cavs ended up with a 20 point come from behind win.

I feel like it happens in the regular season with at least some regularity. I know Harden has been benched at end of games before when he's had off nights same with Russell Westbrook.

Billy has allowed Zach to be the scapegoat since almost day one. He obviously doesn't come out and name him. He supports the narratives with public comments about style of play that are obviously pointed at Zach, and if he defends Zach at all against any criticisms, it's always lukewarm. Compare it to the way he responds to questions about Demars style of play. There really hasn't ever been any question which player he respects, and which one he doesn't. You may agree with him. It may all be substantiated. But it certainly doesn't show any personnel skills or savvy.

If Zach can't handle the way Billy handles the press then I'm not sure what to tell you, but I doubt it will be better for him anywhere else, and it sounds like a Zach problem. I've not watched post game interviews of tons of coaches, mostly only Bulls coaches, but Billy has to be the softest and most well spoken of any coach we've had in terms of handing out criticism to the press.

In the post you quoted from I stated that I think it is both their fault. I don't want to jump to conclusions about your opinion. Are you saying you think Donovan has handled Zach Lavine well since he took over as head coach?

To the extent there is fault, based on the information I have, I think it's primarily Zach's fault, because the information I have from private conversations with multiple people whom directly talk with Zach and Donovan is that the feud is basically a one way feud of Zach holding onto something and never getting past it. Maybe information proves wrong, but I have no reason to think it is, and it's what I have to go on.

how about Vuc? Has he handled Vuc properly?

How about Demar? Has he handled Demar at all?

How about the Coby and Ayo teeter-totter?

On point to the conversation we are having about player / coach relationships, my guess is yes, he treats all those guys well and they all like him. I think from a standpoint of defending your players and communicating with them that Donovan is probably among the best in the league.

If you are shifting the topic to something else about how he manages rotations or does something else, that seems like an entirely different topic all together.

Since you mentioned outcomes, I believe when KAT was benched the TWolves had the lead, and they ended up losing.

Demar went 2 for 3 in Q3 of that 2018 game after a dismal first half. I don't think he got benched for shooting poorly but I have no idea at this point. I did find this report: "We fought hard and gave ourselves a chance to win." Casey did not discuss his decision to bench DeRozan after the game. The coach did hint that the decision wasn't just about DeRozan's poor shooting. Even when you are not shooting well you can defend and do things to help us win, but those nights are going to happen," Casey said. "He had a tough night. He wasn't the reason we lost. We are professionals, he's a pro. He has had tough games before, he'll bounce back. But we have one more game, our pride is on the line, basically our season is on the line, but I think he'll bounce back."

The next game Demar took only 11 shots (he had over 20 shots in 6 of the 7 previous playoff games before those 2, and never less than 17 in any game before those 2) so it looks like he didn't react to well to it. But one example 6 seasons ago....

You know the Kyrie and Love situation (7 seasons ago) was completely different. They were down by double digits, and the reports were that Lue got their OK to sit out (reports Lue later denied). Cleveland was up 2-0 in the series. Kevin Love was not a scorer anywhere near Lavine's caliber at that point in Love's career, and hadn't been for years. Lebron James was running that team anyway.

Billy mishandled the situation, and has mishandled pretty much every player on the roster.

[dougthonus]

Since you mentioned outcomes, I believe when KAT was benched the TWolves had the lead, and they ended up losing.

Demar went 2 for 3 in Q3 of that 2018 game after a dismal first half. I don't think he got benched for shooting poorly but I have no idea at this point. I did find this report: "We fought hard and gave ourselves a chance to win." Casey did not discuss his decision to bench DeRozan after the game. The coach did hint that the decision wasn't just about DeRozan's poor shooting. Even when you are not shooting well you can defend and do things to help us win, but those nights are going to happen," Casey said. "He had a tough night. He wasn't the reason we lost. We are professionals, he's a pro. He has had tough games before, he'll bounce back. But we have one more game, our pride is on the line, basically our season is on the line, but I think he'll bounce back."

The next game Demar took only 11 shots (he had over 20 shots in 6 of the 7 previous playoff games before those 2, and never less than 17 in any game before those 2) so it looks like he didn't react to well to it. But one example 6 seasons ago....

You know the Kyrie and Love situation (7 seasons ago) was completely different. They were down by double digits, and the reports were that Lue got their OK to sit out (reports Lue later denied). Cleveland was up 2-0 in the series. Kevin Love was not a scorer anywhere near Lavine's caliber at that point in Love's career, and hadn't been for years.

All of those guys were bigger players than Zach and in actual important moments instead of an irrelevant game in the regular season. If Zach is holding a grudge over this (what is what I've been told by people who interact directly with him/Donovan) then that's just a Zach problem.

Billy mishandled the situation, and has mishandled pretty much every player on the roster.

I don't really think that's true at all, and the ultimate level of wins doesn't support that either IMO. I think these types of things are mostly like all arguments against coaches of choosing an alternative that you can't prove one way or the other than assuming it would be better than reality.

It's an unknowable argument that the coach can only lose, and it's why all fans always complain about their coach and vastly overstate the value of the coach.

[LateNight]

Since you mentioned outcomes, I believe when KAT was benched the TWolves had the lead, and they ended up losing.

Demar went 2 for 3 in Q3 of that 2018 game after a dismal first half. I don't think he got benched for shooting poorly but I have no idea at this point. I did find this report: "We fought hard and gave ourselves a chance to win." Casey did not discuss his decision to bench DeRozan after the game. The coach did hint that the decision wasn't just about DeRozan's poor shooting. Even when you are not shooting well you can defend and do things to help us win, but those nights are going to happen," Casey said. "He had a tough night. He wasn't the reason we lost. We are professionals, he's a pro. He has had tough games before, he'll bounce back. But we have one more game, our pride is on the line, basically our season is on the line, but I think he'll bounce back."

The next game Demar took only 11 shots (he had over 20 shots in 6 of the 7 previous playoff games before those 2, and never less than 17 in any game before those 2) so it looks like he didn't react to well to it. But one example 6 seasons ago....

You know the Kyrie and Love situation (7 seasons ago) was completely different. They were down by double digits, and the reports were that Lue got their OK to sit out (reports Lue later denied). Cleveland was up 2-0 in the series. Kevin Love was not a scorer anywhere near Lavine's caliber at that point in Love's career, and hadn't been for years.

All of those guys were bigger players than Zach and in actual important moments instead of an irrelevant game in the regular season. If Zach is holding a grudge over this (what is what I've been told by people who interact directly with him/Donovan) then that's just a Zach problem.

Billy mishandled the situation, and has mishandled pretty much every player on the roster.

I don't really think that's true at all, and the ultimate level of wins doesn't support that either IMO. I think these types of things are mostly like all arguments against coaches of choosing an alternative that you can't prove one way or the other than assuming it would be better than reality.

It's an unknowable argument that the coach can only lose, and it's why all fans always complain about their coach and vastly overstate the value of the coach.

Whether it is normal in the league or not - Zach holding a grudge about this makes me like him less.

If Zach was a player who usually was clutch or played hard at both ends (like Jimmy) and this happened, I would maybe forgive it. But he’s not.

I get that he carried the offense in 2020, but this is a lot of drama for a microwave scorer.

[Stratmaster]

Since you mentioned outcomes, I believe when KAT was benched the TWolves had the lead, and they ended up losing.

Demar went 2 for 3 in Q3 of that 2018 game after a dismal first half. I don't think he got benched for shooting poorly but I have no idea at this point. I did find this report: "We fought hard and gave ourselves a chance to win." Casey did not discuss his decision to bench DeRozan after the game. The coach did hint that the decision wasn't just about DeRozan's poor shooting. Even when you are not shooting well you can defend and do things to help us win, but those nights are going to happen," Casey said. "He had a tough night. He wasn't the reason we lost. We are professionals, he's a pro. He has had tough games before, he'll bounce back. But we have one more game, our pride is on the line, basically our season is on the line, but I think he'll bounce back."

The next game Demar took only 11 shots (he had over 20 shots in 6 of the 7 previous playoff games before those 2, and never less than 17 in any game before those 2) so it looks like he didn't react to well to it. But one example 6 seasons ago....

You know the Kyrie and Love situation (7 seasons ago) was completely different. They were down by double digits, and the reports were that Lue got their OK to sit out (reports Lue later denied). Cleveland was up 2-0 in the series. Kevin Love was not a scorer anywhere near Lavine's caliber at that point in Love's career, and hadn't been for years.

All of those guys were bigger players than Zach and in actual important moments instead of an irrelevant game in the regular season. If Zach is holding a grudge over this (what is what I've been told by people who interact directly with him/Donovan) then that's just a Zach problem.

Billy mishandled the situation, and has mishandled pretty much every player on the roster.

I don't really think that's true at all, and the ultimate level of wins doesn't support that either IMO. I think these types of things are mostly like all arguments against coaches of choosing an alternative that you can't prove one way or the other than assuming it would be better than reality.

It's an unknowable argument that the coach can only lose, and it's why all fans always complain about their coach and vastly overstate the value of the coach.

so you don't think that solid relationships with your all-star players are a better alternative than bad relationships? How has that worked out so far?

[d boy gentleman]

Looks like Garland, Allen, and Randle are all available.

I like a Zach for Allen and filler trade. Cavs then send out Garland for a big or wing.

AK will probably trade Zach for Trae or Randle.

I think the more likely target for AK would be Garland from that list, considering that they tried to trade for him recently. But I'm not sure if a trade of Zach for Darius makes sense for either team. Zach and Mitchell backcourt seems a little iffy. And though it would be a little better with Garland and White, it's not exactly an ideal backcourt either.

Zach is the scapegoat and has been by fans and radio personalities alike. He simply requested a trade; AK has been trying to trade him since last Summer and even before that. So, according to some, trading Zach solves some of the problems that ails the team,

[dougthonus]

so you don't think that solid relationships with your all-star players are a better alternative than bad relationships? How has that worked out so far?

Nothing I've said remotely resembles this comment. Donovan seems to be one of the best in the league with relationships. I don't think he has strained relationships with anyone else on the team, and I would guess he's actually quite beloved as a coach by most people who have played for him.

We are talking about a fractured relationship with one player, who is reportedly holding a grudge over something silly and who also didn't get along with his last coach either.

That doesn't sound like a Donovan problem.

[PaKii94]

so you don't think that solid relationships with your all-star players are a better alternative than bad relationships? How has that worked out so far?

Nothing I've said remotely resembles this comment. Donovan seems to be one of the best in the league with relationships. I don't think he has strained relationships with anyone else on the team, and I would guess he's actually quite beloved as a coach by most people who have played for him.

We are talking about a fractured relationship with one player, who is reportedly holding a grudge over something silly and who also didn't get along with his last coach either.

That doesn't sound like a Donovan problem.

It's a lavine (and stratmaster) problem


(Don't report me stratmaster)

[Jcool0]

I think the Bulls would say yes.

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[Charlesareed]

If Reaves is off limits for the Lakers, than they have to throw in picks. Its also hard to make salaries work. I can't see why the Bulls would want Gabe Vincent when they have Carter. Lakers are also an over apron team and need to match salaries as close as possible.

Basically, I think if Lebron and Clutch push this through, Reaves has got to be in the deal. As do Rui and Vanderbilt for salary purposes.

Reaves, Rui, and Vanderbilt for Lavine.

Coby / Ayo / Carter
Reaves / Caruso
Derozan / (P Will/Caruso) / Terry
Pat Williams / Rui / Vanderbilt
Vuc / (Rui/Vanderbilt) / #11 pick

This seems like a trade AK would be chomping at the bit to do.

I’m all over this trade maybe can flip vando or rui

[GetBuLLish]

Add that Zach has been Billy's scapegoat since Billy got here

Besides the benching "incident," what evidence do you have to support this?

[kulaz3000]

I think the Bulls would say yes.

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To draft who exactly? If I'm getting the number 3 pick, I'm shopping it right away for a future pick. Though, I doubt that the Rockets are going to give up that pick for Zach of all players. No, it's not even a doubt, I know that's not the level of player they'd be hoping for in return.