Lively last 6: +103 Mavs +25

[gottamakeit]

Been on the lively train since well before we drafted him. He is a perfect young defensive center. Unlimited hustle, elite defense, moves his feet well, makes correct plays on offense.

My only criticism so far is that needs to be more active in showing his hands on defense.
But that will come with time

[picc]

And again. This is his rookie year. This is the worst he will ever be. And he already does almost everything right.

That's nuts.

[fuller4379]

Everyone ragged on them at the time for tanking into that 10th spot, but it paid dividends.

Was there no way Lively drops to them even if they do not tank? Or maybe they could have traded up a few spots? I understand what they did and it is a reality of the broken league, but I am still not a fan of tanking last 2 games of the season, thats frankly still insulting, especially when you have top 5 player in the world and never know how these series could play out.

Lively wasn't can't miss prospect, if they really believed in him, I am not convinced throwing entire season was the only way to get him.

How did they throw away an entire season? There season was over before the last couple games. They ended the season with 7 wins in their last 25 games. Even if they made the play-in, they would have been bounced the first game.

[SweaterBae]

I'm sure Ayton would love to play with Luka and Kyrie.

[Apz]

He's been amazing all year and even better in these POs, especially considering his recent loss, he's just unbelievable for his age and experience.
Not sure where to rank that in terms of absolute player rankings but absolutely robbed of 1st Team All Rookie.

Was my first thought when released, but after like 5 seconds i found the list alright. It felt alright the more flashy players finished ahead. Maybe could have gotten it ahead of the heat kid bur he got boosted a lot by media. Think lively just see it as a carrot for next season. I were one of those that thought he would fit perfect and had no intrest trading him for capela

[Dominator83]

And again. This is his rookie year. This is the worst he will ever be. And he already does almost everything right.

That's nuts.

Your probably right, but thats not always a guarantee. Tyreke Evans and Bandon jennings had awesome looking rookie years too. Turns out it was their peak seasons

[picc]

And again. This is his rookie year. This is the worst he will ever be. And he already does almost everything right.

That's nuts.

Your probably right, but thats not always a guarantee. Tyreke Evans and Bandon jennings had awesome looking rookie years too. Turns out it was their peak seasons

I'm pretty comfortable guaranteeing he'll improve.

[Johnny Firpo]

Top 50 isn't all that absurd as it looks.

ESPNs top 50 Oct 2023:
50: Jarrett Allen
49: Ayton
48: LaMelo
47: Wemby
46: Middleton
45: Randle
44: McCollum

Who on that list is he better than?

Whether he is better currently or not, does it really matter? You would easily take him over Ayton or McCollum for sure. Also, Wemby's obviously way higher on that list already.

[-Luke-]

Luka is probably very pleased with throwing some games at the end of last season in hindsight. He wouldn't admit it, but he must be very happy with the outcome.

[SpreeS]

Lively development could open for Doncic/Irving real possibility to win couple championships

[UcanUwill]

Well I aint your therapist but if I can offer this observation--based on some of your posts across different threads, it seems like you're generally feeling a 'people don't have good morals and society is falling apart' thing at the moment, and I don't think you have to project that onto sports. Team culture is a real thing, but I think it's safe to say that coaches, teams, and players understand morale for their team better than we do and know what will and won't effect culture in their own camps.

Well, maybe often that can be true, but far from always. Star players get very unhappy with their teams all the time in the NBA. Maybe it did not had a massive impact on Luka, giving up on season after 80 games, when there was still chance, but I can not imagine he was fine with the decision. Dallas rebounded well and all worked out, one instance where tanking really made team a winner. And I do not think i project my morals into sports that much, but maybe I do? If I was in the NBA, I would do the same thing, I would tank. I hate the fact that sports league rewards losing in the first place, not the fact teams take advantage of that. I hate how league is structured where losing was beneficial to Dallas, but then fine Dallas for losing. That to me is pathetic, league will be fundamentally broken as long as they keep this draft system, thats just how it is, you can't reward losing and not be a fundamentally broken sports league, that is absolutely insane to me.

[Texas Chuck]

Luka is probably very pleased with throwing some games at the end of last season in hindsight. He wouldn't admit it, but he must be very happy with the outcome.

And yet another reminder that had Dallas won the one game they tanked and the next game, they still would have missed the play-in and still gotten the same pick.

This narrative still existing in spite of the actual facts is amazing to me. Knicks fans propaganda machine when they were all hurt they didn't get the pick last summer worked on so many of you lol.

[Texas Chuck]

And again. This is his rookie year. This is the worst he will ever be. And he already does almost everything right.

That's nuts.

Your probably right, but thats not always a guarantee. Tyreke Evans and Bandon jennings had awesome looking rookie years too. Turns out it was their peak seasons

Don't wish that on us Ricky Bobby.

but at least you didn't mention Free Roddy B as your example.

[-Luke-]

Luka is probably very pleased with throwing some games at the end of last season in hindsight. He wouldn't admit it, but he must be very happy with the outcome.

And yet another reminder that had Dallas won the one game they tanked and the next game, they still would have missed the play-in and still gotten the same pick.

This narrative still existing in spite of the actual facts is amazing to me. Knicks fans propaganda machine when they were all hurt they didn't get the pick last summer worked on so many of you lol.

Yeah, you're right. But things worked out very well for you guys. Very strong pick (and trades).

[Apz]

Luka is probably very pleased with throwing some games at the end of last season in hindsight. He wouldn't admit it, but he must be very happy with the outcome.

And yet another reminder that had Dallas won the one game they tanked and the next game, they still would have missed the play-in and still gotten the same pick.

This narrative still existing in spite of the actual facts is amazing to me. Knicks fans propaganda machine when they were all hurt they didn't get the pick last summer worked on so many of you lol.

For this alone i really really hope mavs win it all this year. Or well, as a mavs fan it sure would sweeten the win. An entire summer of knicks fans crying over pick 30

[Scalabrine]

Top 50 isn't all that absurd as it looks.

ESPNs top 50 Oct 2023:
50: Jarrett Allen
49: Ayton
48: LaMelo
47: Wemby
46: Middleton
45: Randle
44: McCollum

Who on that list is he better than?

Whether he is better currently or not, does it really matter? You would easily take him over Ayton or McCollum for sure. Also, Wemby's obviously way higher on that list already.

Well the only reason it matters is because I wasn't sure if the post I was responding to was insinuating that he was a top 50 player and better then those certain players. I'm not claiming he's a Top 50 player right now, I was just responding to someone that possibly does.

I think for the whole package of potential, contract, current skill, and fit, he's probably better than Ayton and McCollum for the Mavs, but if we're just talking skill/ability right this second and none of the other stuff matters, then I still think Ayton and McCollum are better basketball players in a vacuum.

[Dominator83]

And again. This is his rookie year. This is the worst he will ever be. And he already does almost everything right.

That's nuts.

Your probably right, but thats not always a guarantee. Tyreke Evans and Bandon jennings had awesome looking rookie years too. Turns out it was their peak seasons

Don't wish that on us Ricky Bobby.

but at least you didn't mention Free Roddy B as your example.

Just playing a little devils advocate! But I do think Lively is only getting started on a strong career. And even if he does struggle you have a great insurance policy. I recall their record being something ridiculously good when Luka/Kyrie/Gafford all start.

[ChipotleWest]

The fact that his mother died last just last month and he's dealing with that at 20 years old and he's playing this well is just crazy.

Basketball is like his therapy right now.

She also played basketball in college at Penn State, scored over 1200 points there.

On April 12, several hours before the Mavericks' final home game of the regular season, Lively revealed that his mother, Kathy Drysdale, had died. She was 53, a decade into a battle with cancer. One she vowed to fight — and did — from the first diagnosis. For most of his life, it had been just them.

[Johnny Firpo]

Who on that list is he better than?

Whether he is better currently or not, does it really matter? You would easily take him over Ayton or McCollum for sure. Also, Wemby's obviously way higher on that list already.

Well the only reason it matters is because I wasn't sure if the post I was responding to was insinuating that he was a top 50 player and better then those certain players. I'm not claiming he's a Top 50 player right now, I was just responding to someone that possibly does.

I think for the whole package of potential, contract, current skill, and fit, he's probably better than Ayton and McCollum for the Mavs, but if we're just talking skill/ability right this second and none of the other stuff matters, then I still think Ayton and McCollum are better basketball players in a vacuum.

That's fair, I don't really agree. I mean they are obviously better scorers, but I would already take Lively over Ayton on pretty much any team, in any scenario. I was a huge Ayton fan, but had to realize that he does not have a high impact due to him avoiding contact, which is crazy for a center.

[Duke4life831]

Dallas was a perfect fit for him, them getting Gafford made it even better. Because he could afford to have those inconsistent off nights that you would expect from a rookie.

I say this part with a ton of praise, Lively is a limited player and he knows it. There is no part of how he plays where you see an ego or anything like that. He isnt out there trying to constantly take guys on one on one. He isnt out there floating on the perimeter wasting his size. The dude knows what he is. He is a rim protecting rim runner. He is also a solid passer and will show those flashes from time to time.

But ya one of the main reasons I think he is already impactful is the fact he landed in the perfect scenario, he is learning from the ultimate rim protector/rim runner with Tyson Chandler, and he knows and accepts his role. And with his crazy length and high level agility, the ceiling is really high for him.