Will Simon's quietly request a trade?

[zzaj]

Team needs the next Maurice Lucas but that player is not in this draft, even if they had gotten
the #1 pick for Sarr is a project.

It’s easy to get rose-colored glasses over Lucas and other players we loved. It’s easy to forget that he had his best career years in Portland.

The game and player types were different then. Mo Lucas would likely be a foul prone limited scoring big in today’s game…basically Jabari Walker in size (6’9 220) And while Lucas was a better passer in a better system, Walker can hit 1 out of every 3 3pt attempts. And when you look at Jabari’s per 36…it’s pretty darned close. Lucas was a better positional defender, but PFs don’t play on the low block anymore. Lucas would get left in the dust or foul every possession playing in space against the modern NBA PF.

It's less to do with Luke but a big, physical player to put next to non physical players like Grant and Ayton.

A 6-9 version of Josh Hart would be ideal or just a guy who does all the "dirty" work, which is why I would not mind a
Clingan with the Blazers but those Drexler led teams were completed when Buck Williams went to Portland.

Skybox has been pounding the table all year for Simons to Orlando. However it gets done is fine with me.

A 6-9 version of Josh Hart is basically Jabari Walker...

[Norm2953]

It’s easy to get rose-colored glasses over Lucas and other players we loved. It’s easy to forget that he had his best career years in Portland.

The game and player types were different then. Mo Lucas would likely be a foul prone limited scoring big in today’s game…basically Jabari Walker in size (6’9 220) And while Lucas was a better passer in a better system, Walker can hit 1 out of every 3 3pt attempts. And when you look at Jabari’s per 36…it’s pretty darned close. Lucas was a better positional defender, but PFs don’t play on the low block anymore. Lucas would get left in the dust or foul every possession playing in space against the modern NBA PF.

It's less to do with Luke but a big, physical player to put next to non physical players like Grant and Ayton.

A 6-9 version of Josh Hart would be ideal or just a guy who does all the "dirty" work, which is why I would not mind a
Clingan with the Blazers but those Drexler led teams were completed when Buck Williams went to Portland.

Skybox has been pounding the table all year for Simons to Orlando. However it gets done is fine with me.

A 6-9 version of Josh Hart is basically Jabari Walker...

Jabari however is 6-7

[zzaj]

It's less to do with Luke but a big, physical player to put next to non physical players like Grant and Ayton.

A 6-9 version of Josh Hart would be ideal or just a guy who does all the "dirty" work, which is why I would not mind a
Clingan with the Blazers but those Drexler led teams were completed when Buck Williams went to Portland.

Skybox has been pounding the table all year for Simons to Orlando. However it gets done is fine with me.

A 6-9 version of Josh Hart is basically Jabari Walker...

Jabari however is 6-7

6'8" in shoes!

[Norm2953]

A 6-9 version of Josh Hart is basically Jabari Walker...

Jabari however is 6-7

6'8" in shoes!

Official combine measurements were 6-6.75 213 with a 6-10.75 WS but he was considered a
tweener. A good player but a 6-9 version of Josh Hart would approx be 6-8.5 220+ lbs with a
6-11 WS.

What I was writing about was one of the 240+ lb guys that Brandon Roy kept asking for which
was a Blazers version of Ronny Turiaf. Time Lord would be perfect if was healthy

[Wizenheimer]

Trading our best player, and quite honestly our best 4, for an ideally sized pg/hybrid who scored 4 pts per game and a middling 1st round pick assuming Orlando continues to improve. Wow what a deal...

If Simons is in the long term plans we should be shopping Sharpe, who is extension eligible after this season and likely will be in the 20M range. We can’t pay 2 SG something like 45M+.

The time to cash on Simons if Sharpe is the guy we plan to roll with at SG is a year sooner (now) not a year later when teams know he have to move him in order to pay Shadeon.

If we could come out with a better roster fit in Black, who also fits the age timeline of Scoot and Sharpe, that’s a great haul. I would also inquire on Sochan if SAS takes a F with 4 or 8.

the problem with that is simple and obvious. Portland tried the square peg of CJ in the round hole of starting SG for 7 seasons. It failed 7 times. And 2 more time Portland repeated the failure with Simons. 9 long futile seasons of an undersized-dribble-happy-semi-ball-hog-no-defense SG. Does Portland really need to try it again a 10th time before they realize what the hell is wrong with the picture? A decade of failure?

Simons would be best as a 6th man but with the new CBA any team, especially a small-market team, can not afford to pay a 6th-7th man 28M/year. It's time for the Blazers to pull the plug on small SG's that have no capacity to play a wing. But I expect Cronin will trot out the same stuff next season

[zzaj]

Jabari however is 6-7

6'8" in shoes!

Official combine measurements were 6-6.75 213 with a 6-10.75 WS but he was considered a
tweener. A good player but a 6-9 version of Josh Hart would approx be 6-8.5 220+ lbs with a
6-11 WS.

What I was writing about was one of the 240+ lb guys that Brandon Roy kept asking for which
was a Blazers version of Ronny Turiaf. Time Lord would be perfect if was healthy

Official combine measurements were 6'8" in shoes.

I don't know why I'm going on and on about this, lol...I agree TL would be great to have on the team, but the reason the Blazers were able to get him in a trade is because he never will be healthy.

IMHO, a big bruising PF would be less desirable than a long (like 7') athletic, rim-running PF who shoots lights out from 3 and can protect the rim.

[Norm2953]

6'8" in shoes!

Official combine measurements were 6-6.75 213 with a 6-10.75 WS but he was considered a
tweener. A good player but a 6-9 version of Josh Hart would approx be 6-8.5 220+ lbs with a
6-11 WS.

What I was writing about was one of the 240+ lb guys that Brandon Roy kept asking for which
was a Blazers version of Ronny Turiaf. Time Lord would be perfect if was healthy

Official combine measurements were 6'8" in shoes.

I don't know why I'm going on and on about this, lol...I agree TL would be great to have on the team, but the reason the Blazers were able to get him in a trade is because he never will be healthy.

IMHO, a big bruising PF would be less desirable than a long (like 7') athletic, rim-running PF who shoots lights out from 3 and can protect the rim.

Quite likely, the Hawks will draft Sarr in the hopes he becomes the player you wish to get. Right now, Sarr is
almost as green as Rupert was this season.

We might be able to get the big, bruising big if Clingan drops to 7 but Tankathon has the Blazers drafting
Dillingham who tested out at the combine as a smurf.

It'll be interesting to see how high Ware goes in this draft for physically he's everything a team could want in a
21st century big but he didn't play in his freshman year at Oregon and like Sharpe, his motor has been questioned.

[JasonStern]

Trading our best player, and quite honestly our best 4, for an ideally sized pg/hybrid who scored 4 pts per game and a middling 1st round pick assuming Orlando continues to improve. Wow what a deal...

If Simons is in the long term plans we should be shopping Sharpe, who is extension eligible after this season and likely will be in the 20M range. We can’t pay 2 SG something like 45M+.

The time to cash on Simons if Sharpe is the guy we plan to roll with at SG is a year sooner (now) not a year later when teams know he have to move him in order to pay Shadeon.

If we could come out with a better roster fit in Black, who also fits the age timeline of Scoot and Sharpe, that’s a great haul. I would also inquire on Sochan if SAS takes a F with 4 or 8.

the problem with that is simple and obvious. Portland tried the square peg of CJ in the round hole of starting SG for 7 seasons. It failed 7 times. And 2 more time Portland repeated the failure with Simons. 9 long futile seasons of an undersized-dribble-happy-semi-ball-hog-no-defense SG. Does Portland really need to try it again a 10th time before they realize what the hell is wrong with the picture? A decade of failure?

Simons would be best as a 6th man but with the new CBA any team, especially a small-market team, can not afford to pay a 6th-7th man 28M/year. It's time for the Blazers to pull the plug on small SG's that have no capacity to play a wing. But I expect Cronin will trot out the same stuff next season

If Simons was 3" taller, would it matter? You're going from an undersized-dribble-happy-semi-ball-hog-no-defense SG to a dribble-happy-semi-ball-hog-no-defense SG.

Again, if a deal made sense, I'm fine moving on. But I'm also fine holding onto Simons and Brogdon for another season. I don't get where the notion that "If Chauncey Billups played Scoot/Sharpe 42 minutes a game, they'd suddenly become all-star tier. But if they play backup minutes and spend more time doing player development with seasoned vets, they'll be busts" mantra came from.

Nor do I get the "trade everyone 25 and over for picks" mantra. The main three being Simons, Grant, and Ayton. Simons isn't overpaid, but every criticism you have about him is exactly why he isn't going to fetch some recent lotto prospect plus two 1sts haul Blazers fans delusionally think. Grant and Ayton have value, but their contracts are huge - which negates the return we would get. So best case, we're looking at a roster primarily composed of late 1sts/2nd round picks/g-league players?

Most realistically, Thybulle or Timelord are salary dumped to get us under the luxury tax. Brogdon plays one more season, then leaves in free agency, avoiding luxury tax the season after.

"That's not how you win a 'chip!"

I never said it was. I said it's the most realistic scenario. That's how Olshey would play it. And Cronin is an Olshey disciple. Not a Pat Riley disciple. Not a Sam Presti disciple. A Neil Olshey disciple.

[Butter]

If Simons is in the long term plans we should be shopping Sharpe, who is extension eligible after this season and likely will be in the 20M range. We can’t pay 2 SG something like 45M+.

The time to cash on Simons if Sharpe is the guy we plan to roll with at SG is a year sooner (now) not a year later when teams know he have to move him in order to pay Shadeon.

If we could come out with a better roster fit in Black, who also fits the age timeline of Scoot and Sharpe, that’s a great haul. I would also inquire on Sochan if SAS takes a F with 4 or 8.

the problem with that is simple and obvious. Portland tried the square peg of CJ in the round hole of starting SG for 7 seasons. It failed 7 times. And 2 more time Portland repeated the failure with Simons. 9 long futile seasons of an undersized-dribble-happy-semi-ball-hog-no-defense SG. Does Portland really need to try it again a 10th time before they realize what the hell is wrong with the picture? A decade of failure?

Simons would be best as a 6th man but with the new CBA any team, especially a small-market team, can not afford to pay a 6th-7th man 28M/year. It's time for the Blazers to pull the plug on small SG's that have no capacity to play a wing. But I expect Cronin will trot out the same stuff next season

If Simons was 3" taller, would it matter? You're going from an undersized-dribble-happy-semi-ball-hog-no-defense SG to a dribble-happy-semi-ball-hog-no-defense SG.

Again, if a deal made sense, I'm fine moving on. But I'm also fine holding onto Simons and Brogdon for another season. I don't get where the notion that "If Chauncey Billups played Scoot/Sharpe 42 minutes a game, they'd suddenly become all-star tier. But if they play backup minutes and spend more time doing player development with seasoned vets, they'll be busts" mantra came from.

Nor do I get the "trade everyone 25 and over for picks" mantra. The main three being Simons, Grant, and Ayton. Simons isn't overpaid, but every criticism you have about him is exactly why he isn't going to fetch some recent lotto prospect plus two 1sts haul Blazers fans delusionally think. Grant and Ayton have value, but their contracts are huge - which negates the return we would get. So best case, we're looking at a roster primarily composed of late 1sts/2nd round picks/g-league players?

Most realistically, Thybulle or Timelord are salary dumped to get us under the luxury tax. Brogdon plays one more season, then leaves in free agency, avoiding luxury tax the season after.

"That's not how you win a 'chip!"

I never said it was. I said it's the most realistic scenario. That's how Olshey would play it. And Cronin is an Olshey disciple. Not a Pat Riley disciple. Not a Sam Presti disciple. A Neil Olshey disciple.

First bold - its not going to magically make them All-Pros over night. What it will do is giving them steady playing time to expedite their development.

Second bold - the Blazers have one if the highest payrolls in the league, with one of the worst records.

[JasonStern]

First bold - its not going to magically make them All-Pros over night. What it will do is giving them steady playing time to expedite their development.

Booting the vets and playing players that aren't ready heavy minutes is how you get this:

https://basketnews.com/news-203992-scoot-henderson-registers-worst-plus-minus-in-nba-history.html

Jermaine O'Neal constantly mentioned that playing against Sheed and Brian Grant was what taught him the pro game. A lot of player development is done in practice. If you replace Brogdon with some g-league guard, then Scoot is going to look like he did in the g-league against him. Light up inferior talent, then look terrible against league PGs.

Second bold - the Blazers have one if the highest payrolls in the league, with one of the worst records.

Yeah. That is just poor cap management. Grant was overpaid when resigned. Everyone in the league knew Ayton was overpaid. That's ~$60M of the cap right there for mid-tier players. Simons and Brogdon aren't overpaid, but that's assuming they get minutes.

Cheer up, though. The Nicholson, Wainright, and Mays stretches are finally off the books. And Bledsoe comes off next year.

[Butter]

First bold - its not going to magically make them All-Pros over night. What it will do is giving them steady playing time to expedite their development.

Booting the vets and playing players that aren't ready heavy minutes is how you get this:

https://basketnews.com/news-203992-scoot-henderson-registers-worst-plus-minus-in-nba-history.html

Jermaine O'Neal constantly mentioned that playing against Sheed and Brian Grant was what taught him the pro game. A lot of player development is done in practice. If you replace Brogdon with some g-league guard, then Scoot is going to look like he did in the g-league against him. Light up inferior talent, then look terrible against league PGs.

Second bold - the Blazers have one if the highest payrolls in the league, with one of the worst records.

Yeah. That is just poor cap management. Grant was overpaid when resigned. Everyone in the league knew Ayton was overpaid. That's ~$60M of the cap right there for mid-tier players. Simons and Brogdon aren't overpaid, but that's assuming they get minutes.

Cheer up, though. The Nicholson, Wainright, and Mays stretches are finally off the books. And Bledsoe comes off next year.

I am actually firmly in the.camp of keeping Brogdon and trading Simons. I totally agree, it provides exactly the veteran mentorship Scoot needs, and Brogdon on has one year left on his contract.

[Wizenheimer]

I am actually firmly in the.camp of keeping Brogdon and trading Simons. I totally agree, it provides exactly the veteran mentorship Scoot needs, and Brogdon on has one year left on his contract.

I agree, if only one is moved it should be Simons rather than Brogdon

something else: I think it was Jason Quick (yeah, him) who said that it was Cronin who got Olshey to pay attention to Simons. If that's true, it could be the Simons will be Cronin's biggest blind spot just like CJ was Olshey's biggest blind spot

and in two years Simons will be getting a new contract. Going by what Cronin paid Grant, 33M/year for 5 years when no other team was going to play 20M/year, if even that...then look for Cronin to re-sign Ant for 40M/year

[Butter]

I am actually firmly in the.camp of keeping Brogdon and trading Simons. I totally agree, it provides exactly the veteran mentorship Scoot needs, and Brogdon on has one year left on his contract.

I agree, if only one is moved it should be Simons rather than Brogdon

something else: I think it was Jason Quick (yeah, him) who said that it was Cronin who got Olshey to pay attention to Simons. If that's true, it could be the Simons will be Cronin's biggest blind spot just like CJ was Olshey's biggest blind spot

and in two years Simons will be getting a new contract. Going by what Cronin paid Grant, 33M/year for 5 years when no other team was going to play 20M/year, if even that...then look for Cronin to re-sign Ant for 40M/year

Ugggghh

[Pattycakes]

I am actually firmly in the.camp of keeping Brogdon and trading Simons. I totally agree, it provides exactly the veteran mentorship Scoot needs, and Brogdon on has one year left on his contract.

I agree, if only one is moved it should be Simons rather than Brogdon

something else: I think it was Jason Quick (yeah, him) who said that it was Cronin who got Olshey to pay attention to Simons. If that's true, it could be the Simons will be Cronin's biggest blind spot just like CJ was Olshey's biggest blind spot

and in two years Simons will be getting a new contract. Going by what Cronin paid Grant, 33M/year for 5 years when no other team was going to play 20M/year, if even that...then look for Cronin to re-sign Ant for 40M/year

The way I look at Jerami is the team simply wanted to keep the asset around, all cost aside. I would envision if we don’t trade Ant this offseason (which id personally be very surprised if we keep him) he’s only getting resigned with the same strategy in mind.

I do not expect Grant or Ant here next year however. The writing seems on the wall that management is all in on a full rebuild and it’s good timing to flip those two for the best assets.

[HoopsFanAZ]

IF Simons is to be traded before the end of his contract … And IF he isn’t likely to lose value (or gain a ton, either), then trade him ASAP while he’s healthy. That’s the only decision IMHO regarding Ant. If he’s not going to be a starter in the back court, then trade him as early as possible for value in return. Maybe, just maybe, the Blazers will only be tanktastic for one more year. Why have Ant on that team? Just my opinion.

With the lottery results a disappointment AFTER this thread began … and all of the mocks, chatter … and Ant having 2 years on a fair contract …

Here are teams and players as Ant TPs:

1. Blazers trade Ant to the Wizards for #2 + Richaun Holmes (1 yr) + Landry Shamet (1 yr + T-opt)
2. Blazers trade Ant to the Rockets for #3 + Steven Adams (1 yr) + Jeff Green (T-opt to guarantee 1 yr)
3. Blazers trade Ant to the Spurs for #4 + Devonte Graham (1 yr) + Tre Jones (1 yr)

Based on the pick and valuation of Ant, the #14 and/or assets are in play. Other guards in the draft are short, too, and ANT is immediate 3-level scoring who has marginally improved on D as he’s gained muscle and experience … some improvement.

The Wizards need guard scoring (everything, really). The players traded in all 3 are older and non-essential to their teams.
The Rockets are in much better shape, but 3 level scoring … and has run an offense … to go with Amen Thompson as their eventual tall PG is nice. (FVV is 30 with 1 yr and a T-opt paid $44.9 large)
The Spurs need a PG and Ant as a ready-made combo to go with Wemby and their defenders is getting chatter. Win-now for Wemby and the aging Pop.

The Blazers get Risacher or Sarr with #2. Or if Clingan or Shepperd or Castle is up there, still get 1 of Sarr or Risacher with #3. With #4, it’s dicey but it is pick of the litter … and 4 + more for a move up?

SWING FOR IT!