2023-24 General Thread

[KF10]

Not a very constructive thought, but it has been educational to watch both Luka and Halliburton having a profound effect in the later stages of these playoffs.
Sacto effectively decided that Fox was a better option than both. Time will tell, but Fox has to grow and show more consistency to repay that confidence.
I think it would be better long term for Malik to move on as he is not worth the premium over the MLE which he might command. He does have quite a few off nights and is not a good defensive player, and does not fit into a more structured offensive system which is needed for the play offs. Fox needs a big wing to support him, along with Keegan, which Barnes can no longer fulfill.

Luka is levels ahead both Fox and Hali. I don't see Fox matching Luka at this point. It is a pointless exercise. Luka is future HOF. He has FIVE 1st ALL NBA team selections in the last 6 years. Brought his team back to the WCF. Won a road game against Minny at GM 1.

The Kings totally whiffed this draft selection. It has set this franchise back.

That said, Fox was given the keys the moment he got the nod from management when they passed over Luka for Bagley.

It's a good sign that Fox has steadily gotten better every season. I imagine he needs to improve even further this upcoming season for this team to get back to the playoffs. Fox is real good in his own right.

I really think Monk is a goner. Unless, the Kings does something very creative with his contract (2+1 kind of deals), I don't see Monk coming back.

They need a big wing for sure. I like Ingram. He would be a serious upgrade over anything the Kings have. I hate Kuzma but I admit that he would be a considerable upgrade at the wing position too.

[BoogieTime]

If Fox has another year like this last year, I will more than likely just want him traded, for value hopefully

Paying that much for a volume scorer who is inefficient and that inconsistent, is just no for me

I liked his first year under Brown, it was both offensively productive and he rose to the occasions both in the clutch/playoffs. He wasn’t productive this year and didn’t rise to any occasions - clutch or playins

Now, he’s improved defensively and had one not so good offensive year. But if you start seeing the consistency/efficiency issues going on for years etc.. He’s got these contract years to show what he can do. He's talented enough, we've seen it, but does he have the motor to consistently produce. Im hopeful but it needs to be on the court

[blind prophet]

NBA Rumors: Mike Brown, Kings' 2023-24 Struggles Didn't 'Sit Well' with Ownership

According to James Ham of The Kings Beat, "The failure to repeat the success of the previous year hasn't sat well with ownership, according to sources."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10122449

More details

https://kings-beat.beehiiv.com/p/mike-brown-coaching-salaries-avoiding-basketball-hell-20

[blind prophet]

I sure hope Vivek is letting Monte make the decisions.

[Lost in LA]

NBA Rumors: Mike Brown, Kings' 2023-24 Struggles Didn't 'Sit Well' with Ownership

According to James Ham of The Kings Beat, "The failure to repeat the success of the previous year hasn't sat well with ownership, according to sources."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10122449

More details

https://kings-beat.beehiiv.com/p/mike-brown-coaching-salaries-avoiding-basketball-hell-20

To me that's a Monte issue, not a Mike Brown one.

[OxAndFox]

Mike Brown's extension will get done.

If you were the owner would you be happy with not making the POs? Ham didn't even go that far, he said it hasn't sat well with the ownership. I would be too. Doesn't mean the coach is on the hot seat, doesn't mean the FO is, although the FO should be getting questioned if there isn't at least 1 major change.

[BoogieTime]

Vivek isnt that foolhardy to fudge with Brown IMO (it would be hard to be that foolhardy, imo)

The unhappy with the missing playoffs bit is negotiation I believe, negotiation and against the large extension Brown rightfully wants

That negotiation was taken out of context to create drama

but im giving Vivek credit here as other questionable moves have been made in his tenure to say the least

[OxAndFox]

Vivek isnt that foolhardy to fudge with Brown IMO (it would be hard to be that foolhardy, imo)

The unhappy with the missing playoffs bit is negotiation I believe, negotiation and against the large extension Brown rightfully wants

That negotiation was taken out of context to create drama

but im giving Vivek credit here as other questionable moves have been made in his tenure to say the least

I hadn't really thought of it as a negotiation tactic, but definitely could be. But why would it come out via Ham? He isn't really a mouthpiece for the org right now I wouldn't think, particularly as he is critical of Vivek.

IMO Brown most likely is looking for more than the $10m annually that was bandied about earlier, otherwise, a 5/$50m deal should have been signed.

[BoogieTime]

Talks with Brown have been tabled... Vivek really about to screw up one of the only things that have went right in his tenure to cement his status as worst owner?

If he's too poor too operate the team he needs to be out

going to assume this is just bad media negotiation at this point, just don't think its normal for other orgs handling their top coaches like such

[OxAndFox]

Talks with Brown have been tabled... Vivek really about to screw up one of the only things that have went right in his tenure to cement his status as worst owner?

If he's too poor too operate the team he needs to be out

going to assume this is just bad media negotiation at this point, just don't think its normal for other orgs handling their top coaches like such

Think at this stage it's tabling it until after the draft, which isn't a good thing. I can't see any way Monk stays with the Kings if Brown doesn't have his extension by the time the Kings can officially negotiate with him.

If Brown wants $15-16m and the Kings are balking at that, then why let Jordi go?

[Lost in LA]

Vivek isnt that foolhardy to fudge with Brown IMO (it would be hard to be that foolhardy, imo)

The unhappy with the missing playoffs bit is negotiation I believe, negotiation and against the large extension Brown rightfully wants

That negotiation was taken out of context to create drama

but im giving Vivek credit here as other questionable moves have been made in his tenure to say the least

I don't share your optimism. Some of the worst Sacto moves have been made under his watch. He is very capable of messing this up. How does the team negotiate trades if the Head Coach, a major selling point, is a lame duck?

[BoogieTime]

Talks with Brown have been tabled... Vivek really about to screw up one of the only things that have went right in his tenure to cement his status as worst owner?

If he's too poor too operate the team he needs to be out

going to assume this is just bad media negotiation at this point, just don't think its normal for other orgs handling their top coaches like such

Think at this stage it's tabling it until after the draft, which isn't a good thing. I can't see any way Monk stays with the Kings if Brown doesn't have his extension by the time the Kings can officially negotiate with him.

If Brown wants $15-16m and the Kings are balking at that, then why let Jordi go?

I thought the earlier reports were Brown was being reasonable in terms of what he wanted from Amick/Slater (not 15-16, more like in the 10-12 range or what have you).

But a good coach is equal to talent on the court. The team consistently produces better than it should on paper with Brown

[OxAndFox]

Talks with Brown have been tabled... Vivek really about to screw up one of the only things that have went right in his tenure to cement his status as worst owner?

If he's too poor too operate the team he needs to be out

going to assume this is just bad media negotiation at this point, just don't think its normal for other orgs handling their top coaches like such

Think at this stage it's tabling it until after the draft, which isn't a good thing. I can't see any way Monk stays with the Kings if Brown doesn't have his extension by the time the Kings can officially negotiate with him.

If Brown wants $15-16m and the Kings are balking at that, then why let Jordi go?

I thought the earlier reports were Brown was being reasonable in terms of what he wanted from Amick/Slater (not 15-16, more like in the 10-12 range or what have you).

But a good coach is equal to talent on the court. The team consistently produces better than it should on paper with Brown

Same. I can't for the life of me though think of why the Kings wouldn't have inked that deal. If it were 10, it's just what coaches are getting now, decent ones that have runs on the board so to speak. If it were 12, then that's close enough to get your coach, that won COY and then did a very good job again this past season.

Paraphrasing Sean Cunningham, If he is your coach in the future, sign him to the contract, if you don't think he is your coach moving forward, you need to let him go now. You can't let him go into the season without an extension.

[OxAndFox]

Part of me is thinking, could it be the style of play from year 1 to year 2 of Brown?
Moving to a more defensive focus did take away from the offence, which let's be honest the personnel supported.

The other side is, maybe it's not the $$$ amount, but years. Ownership might not want to put a 5 year offer on the table?
For me, the earliest you put Brown on the hook is after 2 more seasons. You leave him and the FO to do their job.

[Lost in LA]

Part of me is thinking, could it be the style of play from year 1 to year 2 of Brown?
Moving to a more defensive focus did take away from the offence, which let's be honest the personnel supported.

The other side is, maybe it's not the $$$ amount, but years. Ownership might not want to put a 5 year offer on the table?
For me, the earliest you put Brown on the hook is after 2 more seasons. You leave him and the FO to do their job.

it may blow over but I am not sure of the value of saying anything. Vivek looks bad in this especially as the Kings' relative lack of success is really a GM issue not a head coach one.

[BoogieTime]

In an alternative universe where pinhead siakam didn't poo-poo the trade to Sacramento, what type of shape would that leave us. Assuming its around the three first round picks Indiana gave? We would have room to re-up Malik with space... How responsible do you think adding Pascal was to Indy's end of the year run?

[madskillz8]

What I know is I am very disappointed with Brown's performance this year - independent of the record. I know, most often than not coaches are the scapegoats, either by fans or managements, but it was really disappointing to watch your "unanimous COY" coach being outcoached again and again, and failing find a solution against NOP - even without Zion. Same for multiple blowouts vs Houston, and the last one against Dallas. On many occasions, he watched the opposing teams went 10-0 or so runs in the second quarters without using his timeout - and it was very untypical compared his last season - where he was instantly calling timeouts even after a single possession he didn't like.

I, by no means, think Kings are handling this extension process well. All I am saying is I can understand the raising doubts to give him a contract that would make him top 3 or so among the coaches.

[OxAndFox]

What I know is I am very disappointed with Brown's performance this year - independent of the record. I know, most often than not coaches are the scapegoats, either by fans or managements, but it was really disappointing to watch your "unanimous COY" coach being outcoached again and again, and failing find a solution against NOP - even without Zion. Same for multiple blowouts vs Houston, and the last one against Dallas. On many occasions, he watched the opposing teams went 10-0 or so runs in the second quarters without using his timeout - and it was very untypical compared his last season - where he was instantly calling timeouts even after a single possession he didn't like.

I, by no means, think Kings are handling this extension process well. All I am saying is I can understand the raising doubts to give him a contract that would make him top 3 or so among the coaches.

I certainly don't think Brown should be above criticism, and your points are valid, however I think he should be given some rope here. It shouldn't mean he doesn't get an extension or should be fired. I know you're not saying fire him, but the timing is now that the coach either needs an extension or let him go.
The players do need to be held accountable here too. And Monte.

I mean you look at how coaches salaries have exploded in recent years.
Kerr - 2/35m
Pop - $16m/year
Monty - $13m/year
Spoelstra 8/$120m

Thibs is going to sign an extension over $10m/year. Nurse is around that figure. Doc signed 4/$40m. Bud just signed for $10m/year, which means the Suns might be paying $16.2m for a head coach this season. Ty Lue is up for an extension and he will no doubt get over $10m. Kidd just signed an extension that would be moving up towards $10m. So you would think that by the end of next season more than half the NBA will have coaches earning around that mark.

[OxAndFox]

In an alternative universe where pinhead siakam didn't poo-poo the trade to Sacramento, what type of shape would that leave us. Assuming its around the three first round picks Indiana gave? We would have room to re-up Malik with space... How responsible do you think adding Pascal was to Indy's end of the year run?

Oh I think most of Indiana's run has to do with Siakam TBH.
I mean they don't go anywhere without teams imploding around them with injuries, but he made a huge difference to that team. And if there was a chance to get Siakam without sending Keegan I think the risk of him leaving in FA would have been worth it because IMO the Kings would be in the WCF.

[OxAndFox]

Part of me is thinking, could it be the style of play from year 1 to year 2 of Brown?
Moving to a more defensive focus did take away from the offence, which let's be honest the personnel supported.

The other side is, maybe it's not the $$$ amount, but years. Ownership might not want to put a 5 year offer on the table?
For me, the earliest you put Brown on the hook is after 2 more seasons. You leave him and the FO to do their job.

it may blow over but I am not sure of the value of saying anything. Vivek looks bad in this especially as the Kings' relative lack of success is really a GM issue not a head coach one.

Yeah I still expect him to sign after the draft, but I just think, as everyone else, it's unnecessary pressure to put on the org.
I mean Brown is in a good spot, Lakers job open, Cavs job open. I mean he's got history with both of them too.
So either sign him straight away or let him go to a team that values him accordingly.