2023-24 NBA Season Discussion

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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3501 » by Special_Puppy » Sat May 25, 2024 4:49 pm

Is there any good historical parallel for the Mavericks? Negative SRS the previous season to going to the final the next season by just adding a bunch of role players?
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3502 » by penbeast0 » Sat May 25, 2024 4:51 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:The two Dallas centers were 14 for 16 last game, Gobert has been shading away from his man to help too often. I know that's the scheme but you need to recover better instead of letting them get so man open shots at the rim.


Or

the coach could have others (Towns primarily) rotate to cut that off and see if Dallas can make the corner 3's. This is a scheme issue and Gobert is doing exactly what he's being asked to do. Asking him to shut down Luka/Ky on the drive and get back and prevent the lob simply isn't a reasonable ask.

Cannot believe how many people are still blaming Gobert for these losses when Ant and Towns have been terrible.

But its like the Joker stuff. People want it to be their fault, so its their fault and we just don't look any further.


I've been a strong Gobert defender all year just looking at the last game, 14 for 16 for two guys not known for great offense seems something that should be brought up. Personal, coaching, scheme . . . can't continue that way.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3503 » by Dr Positivity » Sat May 25, 2024 6:03 pm

MIN needs to bench Gobert to have a chance to flip it, it's just a bad series for him. I don't think they're coming back as players like Reid and McDaniels had big shooting games while Washington is doing nothing and it's still 2-0.

Definitely not best defense of the modern era when their PG is old and small, Towns while improved is still not All D or anything, and even Gobert is better in some matchups than others. I think some teams like 2019 Raptors and 2022 Celtics are better on D on paper.

Unless Pacers make it interesting, at this point it looks like the Celtics are going to win to me since they have the perfect team to guard Kyrie and Doncic.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3504 » by Doctor MJ » Sat May 25, 2024 7:03 pm

Special_Puppy wrote:Is there any good historical parallel for the Mavericks? Negative SRS the previous season to going to the final the next season by just adding a bunch of role players?


All the more dramatic because of the mid-season shift. This was a team that was 26-23, virtually the same as the 25-24 they were to that point last year. Last year they finish the season 13-20, this season 24-9, followed by the outstanding playoff run.

First and foremost, I think this shows us the importance of fit - which is both about what player types you're adding, and about how players can learn to function together.

Makes sense to wait and see how it all plays out, but very much worth studying how the Mavs seemed to finally figure out how to build around Luka midway through his 6th year.

To your question: I don't know if there's an example that really fits that well to me for reasons I'll get into, but I'll mention the '70s Sonics for comparison and contrast.

In '76-77, the Sonics were not a playoff team.
In '77-78, they began 5-17, then finished the year 45-15, got to the finals, and the next year won the title.

What changed in the roster to make the difference? Well, the core 5 guys in the 1978 run (Webster, Johnson, Sikma, Williams, Silas), were all there when the team was 5-17. So this quite literally isn't a great example of great GMing work immediately paying dividends in the roster the way the current Mavs seem to be.

Of course this doesn't mean that a roster-shift wasn't involved. The team got a new coach (Lenny Wilkens), and among the other changes he made, he emphasized different players. Johnson, Sikma & Williams were not core 5 guys for the previous coach, so Wilkens choosing to focus on those 3 guys - who would then go on to be the core 3 guys leading the team to the title was obviously huge. This then gets into the other rub of "role players". Johnson, Sikma & Williams all would become all-stars in these new roles.

Of course, it's entirely possible that guys like PJ Washington and Dereck Lively will become all-stars and thus shift the story slightly, but I think we can all agree that unlike with those Sonics, the two clear cut stars of the Mavs were there before the Mavs were a great team, and it really was the addition of lesser talents that made everything click, and that's pretty amazing.

Not looking to take credit away from the stars here - Luka has a strong case for being the MVP of the league after the mid-season shift change, and Kyrie has played like an all-around professional in ways he never did before - but I think it's pretty clear that at the very least, the Lively/Gafford-type additions were very shrewd given the stars they had, as is the Jones move.

The PJ Washington factor is a bit weirder. The theory behind him has a lot in common with the guy they traded him for (Grant Williams), except during the RS "3J" shot the 3 worse. Yet, Washington's play last series really made a critical difference and so that move looks great too.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3505 » by rk2023 » Sat May 25, 2024 7:34 pm

Apples to oranges across the board here, but something interesting I saw - courtesy of a friend:

the season before winning a title, last four years

2019 Lakers: missed playoffs
2020 Bucks: lost in 2nd round
2021 Warriors: missed playoffs
2022 Nuggets: lost in first round

Could the Mavericks keep this general trend going?
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3506 » by BroKamina » Sat May 25, 2024 8:58 pm

Jokic - most unstoppable offensive engine of all time, completely unable to be slowed down, a modern day Shaq, but the best shooting big ever that would make Dirk per his pants and the best passer in basketball history “I literally do not think Shaq is better at anything”

Actually Led his team to have 2 good offensive games against this defense, game 2 was absent for 27 minutes till jamal put them out of reach, game 7 took control of the offense front running as jamal put them up 20 and led them to blow a 20 point lead in a half because he couldn’t even front run correctly. Team had 2024 losing streak pistons level offense against this the wolves in 4/7 games, had good box scores front running and leading his team to choke a 20 point lead in game 7 at home from a lack of defense

he only has a top 3 coach, one of the most well fitting casts in NBA history, is allowed to hit people midair since he’s too slow to contest shots at the rim while getting foul calls because KAT grazed his finger in a game 7… but since MPJ did not make running 30 foot jumpers against good defense in this series at above a 40% rate and second star Jamal only put them in a position to win twice and had 2 very bad shooting games in games they lost by 800 points. Unfortunate the GOAT peak pissed down his leg whenever the game got close, thank god he got that dunk in garbage time or else it may have looked nasty

Luka - fat, lazy, can’t play winning basketball, worse than Jayson Tatum because of number on excel file

Took his team home when his co star (Kyrie) kept them within distance (rather than failing to do so when his co star brought them up 20) while his teammates were a combined 3/15 from three (imagine having good offense when ur teammates aren’t making all their threes against a great defense! Maybe breaking the defense down matters) hit a game winning three over Gobert in game 2 en route to a 32 point triple double

This mavs team is stacked though, PJ washington (2/11 from three in these 2 wins), 3 athletic play finishers who all would need to be packaged with multiple picks individually to trade for Aaron Gordon, josh green, and Jason Kidd at the helm!

Not only that but Luka has a sore back, Achilles, knee, and elbow. Jokic was just sorely missed whenever the team actually needed him.

Maybe it’s a matchup thing, after all, I saw comments about the wolves having the best defensive frontcourt ever, Gobert (impact has gone down every playofffs of his career and he is decent at best vs strong guys in the post), KAT (literally considered a liability), and Naz Reid (considered slightly above average for his position). Their perimeter defense (NAW, ANT, and of course Jaden McDaniels perhaps the best man to man defender on the nba not rhyming with du lort) is severely lacking though in comparison

Imagine if luka was even moderately healthy, this series would be completely out of reach! The wolves are a great defensive team, although seeing them gassed up as the best most dominant defensive front court in NBA history by some on here because they were tall and could hit the double team button was extremely funny.

The wolves are really a great team though, they can still in the series, gotta figure out how to get ANT going when the opposing center isn’t on weight watchers though.

I don’t know though, Tatum folding when the lights start shining whilst on the most stacked team in human history that isn’t in San fransisco might move me more than Luka getting the job done in the “DPOY” because of a excel file I saw on Twitter get passed around explaining he actually has been the best player in the league the past 5 years



Luka sure is great, if he wins a title this may be the best title run of the last few years, considering the hardships he has gone through.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3507 » by Owly » Sat May 25, 2024 9:15 pm

penbeast0 wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:The two Dallas centers were 14 for 16 last game, Gobert has been shading away from his man to help too often. I know that's the scheme but you need to recover better instead of letting them get so man open shots at the rim.


Or

the coach could have others (Towns primarily) rotate to cut that off and see if Dallas can make the corner 3's. This is a scheme issue and Gobert is doing exactly what he's being asked to do. Asking him to shut down Luka/Ky on the drive and get back and prevent the lob simply isn't a reasonable ask.

Cannot believe how many people are still blaming Gobert for these losses when Ant and Towns have been terrible.

But its like the Joker stuff. People want it to be their fault, so its their fault and we just don't look any further.


I've been a strong Gobert defender all year just looking at the last game, 14 for 16 for two guys not known for great offense seems something that should be brought up. Personal, coaching, scheme . . . can't continue that way.

I would argue "two guys not known for great offense" isn't the most fair or complete description in the context of praise I think primarily for their fg efficiency.

Gafford shot .780 from the field for the Mavericks (.725 for the full regular season) and fwiw nearly broke Wilt Chamberlain's consecutive fg streak.
Lively "merely" shot .747. (Again from the field, not ts%)

I wouldn't want to overreact to one game because it's not exactly a reliable sample but yes even given their baseline, no I wouldn't be happy with that outcome.

If "you need to recover better" was intended to regard specifically Gobert ... and in the context that seems the most available reading ... one could justify defending Gobert whilst not necessarily arguing against the idea that it "can't continue" or "should be brought up".
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3508 » by BroKamina » Sat May 25, 2024 9:21 pm

I think he’s just an overrated player who did well against another one!

“Best defender in the world” as the entire world watching knew Luka Doncic would score the moment they locked eyes… yeah right! Best defense he’s done is he stole was Victor’s first award!
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3509 » by GSP » Sun May 26, 2024 3:07 am

This Pacers team is the most confusing team I think ive ever seen

Absolutely nothing about them makes sense

They cant defend on the road. Defend like the Artest/Jo Pacers at home

They dominate from 3 one game hitting 19 3s and 50% then get 60pts in the paint the next while leading most of the game being outscored by 30 from 3 and shooting 18% from 3

Had struggle scoring for half the series against a Bucks team w/o Giannis. Have had no issues scoring on our defense. Haliburton out and Nembhart goes 30,19 and Tj Mcconnell damn near has a 25pt trip dub

They are like variance personified in a team. Absolutely nothing about them makes any logical sense. Their stats and analytics department must be from 2030 or some **** they are not playing the same game as everyone else
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3510 » by bigboi » Sun May 26, 2024 3:23 am

Special_Puppy wrote:Is there any good historical parallel for the Mavericks? Negative SRS the previous season to going to the final the next season by just adding a bunch of role players?


Maybe stop looking at useless stats that pretty much no one uses on Realgm and you’ll find your answer.
tlee324 wrote:
Lebron made it to the finals with that cleveland team.

Bird would have won 4 rings with that team, in this weak ass era of basketball.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3511 » by Special_Puppy » Sun May 26, 2024 4:24 am

BroKamina wrote:Jokic - most unstoppable offensive engine of all time, completely unable to be slowed down, a modern day Shaq, but the best shooting big ever that would make Dirk per his pants and the best passer in basketball history “I literally do not think Shaq is better at anything”

Actually Led his team to have 2 good offensive games against this defense, game 2 was absent for 27 minutes till jamal put them out of reach, game 7 took control of the offense front running as jamal put them up 20 and led them to blow a 20 point lead in a half because he couldn’t even front run correctly. Team had 2024 losing streak pistons level offense against this the wolves in 4/7 games, had good box scores front running and leading his team to choke a 20 point lead in game 7 at home from a lack of defense

he only has a top 3 coach, one of the most well fitting casts in NBA history, is allowed to hit people midair since he’s too slow to contest shots at the rim while getting foul calls because KAT grazed his finger in a game 7… but since MPJ did not make running 30 foot jumpers against good defense in this series at above a 40% rate and second star Jamal only put them in a position to win twice and had 2 very bad shooting games in games they lost by 800 points. Unfortunate the GOAT peak pissed down his leg whenever the game got close, thank god he got that dunk in garbage time or else it may have looked nasty

Luka - fat, lazy, can’t play winning basketball, worse than Jayson Tatum because of number on excel file

Took his team home when his co star (Kyrie) kept them within distance (rather than failing to do so when his co star brought them up 20) while his teammates were a combined 3/15 from three (imagine having good offense when ur teammates aren’t making all their threes against a great defense! Maybe breaking the defense down matters) hit a game winning three over Gobert in game 2 en route to a 32 point triple double

This mavs team is stacked though, PJ washington (2/11 from three in these 2 wins), 3 athletic play finishers who all would need to be packaged with multiple picks individually to trade for Aaron Gordon, josh green, and Jason Kidd at the helm!

Not only that but Luka has a sore back, Achilles, knee, and elbow. Jokic was just sorely missed whenever the team actually needed him.

Maybe it’s a matchup thing, after all, I saw comments about the wolves having the best defensive frontcourt ever, Gobert (impact has gone down every playofffs of his career and he is decent at best vs strong guys in the post), KAT (literally considered a liability), and Naz Reid (considered slightly above average for his position). Their perimeter defense (NAW, ANT, and of course Jaden McDaniels perhaps the best man to man defender on the nba not rhyming with du lort) is severely lacking though in comparison

Imagine if luka was even moderately healthy, this series would be completely out of reach! The wolves are a great defensive team, although seeing them gassed up as the best most dominant defensive front court in NBA history by some on here because they were tall and could hit the double team button was extremely funny.

The wolves are really a great team though, they can still in the series, gotta figure out how to get ANT going when the opposing center isn’t on weight watchers though.

I don’t know though, Tatum folding when the lights start shining whilst on the most stacked team in human history that isn’t in San fransisco might move me more than Luka getting the job done in the “DPOY” because of a excel file I saw on Twitter get passed around explaining he actually has been the best player in the league the past 5 years



Luka sure is great, if he wins a title this may be the best title run of the last few years, considering the hardships he has gone through.


Playoff EPM so far (noisy in small samples)
Jokic: +6.7
Luka: +4.7

Playoff BPM so far
Jokic: +12.8
Luka: +6.7

Total Playoff EPM WAR Generated by Each Supporting Cast
Jokic: 0.9
Luka: 5

Totaly Playoff BPM WAR Generated by Each Supporting Cast:
Jokic: 2.2
Luka: 6.5

Seems like a pretty simple story
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3512 » by theonlyclutch » Sun May 26, 2024 8:57 am

Special_Puppy wrote:
BroKamina wrote:Jokic - most unstoppable offensive engine of all time, completely unable to be slowed down, a modern day Shaq, but the best shooting big ever that would make Dirk per his pants and the best passer in basketball history “I literally do not think Shaq is better at anything”

Actually Led his team to have 2 good offensive games against this defense, game 2 was absent for 27 minutes till jamal put them out of reach, game 7 took control of the offense front running as jamal put them up 20 and led them to blow a 20 point lead in a half because he couldn’t even front run correctly. Team had 2024 losing streak pistons level offense against this the wolves in 4/7 games, had good box scores front running and leading his team to choke a 20 point lead in game 7 at home from a lack of defense

he only has a top 3 coach, one of the most well fitting casts in NBA history, is allowed to hit people midair since he’s too slow to contest shots at the rim while getting foul calls because KAT grazed his finger in a game 7… but since MPJ did not make running 30 foot jumpers against good defense in this series at above a 40% rate and second star Jamal only put them in a position to win twice and had 2 very bad shooting games in games they lost by 800 points. Unfortunate the GOAT peak pissed down his leg whenever the game got close, thank god he got that dunk in garbage time or else it may have looked nasty

Luka - fat, lazy, can’t play winning basketball, worse than Jayson Tatum because of number on excel file

Took his team home when his co star (Kyrie) kept them within distance (rather than failing to do so when his co star brought them up 20) while his teammates were a combined 3/15 from three (imagine having good offense when ur teammates aren’t making all their threes against a great defense! Maybe breaking the defense down matters) hit a game winning three over Gobert in game 2 en route to a 32 point triple double

This mavs team is stacked though, PJ washington (2/11 from three in these 2 wins), 3 athletic play finishers who all would need to be packaged with multiple picks individually to trade for Aaron Gordon, josh green, and Jason Kidd at the helm!

Not only that but Luka has a sore back, Achilles, knee, and elbow. Jokic was just sorely missed whenever the team actually needed him.

Maybe it’s a matchup thing, after all, I saw comments about the wolves having the best defensive frontcourt ever, Gobert (impact has gone down every playofffs of his career and he is decent at best vs strong guys in the post), KAT (literally considered a liability), and Naz Reid (considered slightly above average for his position). Their perimeter defense (NAW, ANT, and of course Jaden McDaniels perhaps the best man to man defender on the nba not rhyming with du lort) is severely lacking though in comparison

Imagine if luka was even moderately healthy, this series would be completely out of reach! The wolves are a great defensive team, although seeing them gassed up as the best most dominant defensive front court in NBA history by some on here because they were tall and could hit the double team button was extremely funny.

The wolves are really a great team though, they can still in the series, gotta figure out how to get ANT going when the opposing center isn’t on weight watchers though.

I don’t know though, Tatum folding when the lights start shining whilst on the most stacked team in human history that isn’t in San fransisco might move me more than Luka getting the job done in the “DPOY” because of a excel file I saw on Twitter get passed around explaining he actually has been the best player in the league the past 5 years



Luka sure is great, if he wins a title this may be the best title run of the last few years, considering the hardships he has gone through.


Playoff EPM so far (noisy in small samples)
Jokic: +6.7
Luka: +4.7

Playoff BPM so far
Jokic: +12.8
Luka: +6.7

Total Playoff EPM WAR Generated by Each Supporting Cast
Jokic: 0.9
Luka: 5

Totaly Playoff BPM WAR Generated by Each Supporting Cast:
Jokic: 2.2
Luka: 6.5

Seems like a pretty simple story


All the above stats say is that Jokic can fill a stat sheet better than Luka. It doesn't excuse the fact that the Jokic-led offense in the Nuggets (with him being a primary creator) struggled to do much against a Minnesota team (and frankly the Lakers before) that Luka's Mavericks seem to be having a much easier time dealing with.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3513 » by The-Power » Sun May 26, 2024 9:02 am

Oh look, another poster who only registered to tell people how overrated Jokic is (with some Gobert-hate sprinkled in, of course). How fun life must be.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3514 » by penbeast0 » Sun May 26, 2024 1:27 pm

Do not post here to attack other posters. Content is fine, but not the person. If you find a poster's comments stupid and useless, put them on ignore. That's what it is for.

Unfortunately, mods can't do that. :roll:
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3515 » by Bergmaniac » Sun May 26, 2024 1:50 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:MIN needs to bench Gobert to have a chance to flip it, it's just a bad series for him. I don't think they're coming back as players like Reid and McDaniels had big shooting games while Washington is doing nothing and it's still 2-0.

I don't get this take. The Wolves have been awful on both ends in this series (102.4 ORTG, 145 DRTG) when Gobert has been on the bench plus KAT has been terrible in both games and has scored 3 more points than Gobert after taking twice as many shots.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3516 » by Special_Puppy » Sun May 26, 2024 2:32 pm

theonlyclutch wrote:
Special_Puppy wrote:
BroKamina wrote:Jokic - most unstoppable offensive engine of all time, completely unable to be slowed down, a modern day Shaq, but the best shooting big ever that would make Dirk per his pants and the best passer in basketball history “I literally do not think Shaq is better at anything”

Actually Led his team to have 2 good offensive games against this defense, game 2 was absent for 27 minutes till jamal put them out of reach, game 7 took control of the offense front running as jamal put them up 20 and led them to blow a 20 point lead in a half because he couldn’t even front run correctly. Team had 2024 losing streak pistons level offense against this the wolves in 4/7 games, had good box scores front running and leading his team to choke a 20 point lead in game 7 at home from a lack of defense

he only has a top 3 coach, one of the most well fitting casts in NBA history, is allowed to hit people midair since he’s too slow to contest shots at the rim while getting foul calls because KAT grazed his finger in a game 7… but since MPJ did not make running 30 foot jumpers against good defense in this series at above a 40% rate and second star Jamal only put them in a position to win twice and had 2 very bad shooting games in games they lost by 800 points. Unfortunate the GOAT peak pissed down his leg whenever the game got close, thank god he got that dunk in garbage time or else it may have looked nasty

Luka - fat, lazy, can’t play winning basketball, worse than Jayson Tatum because of number on excel file

Took his team home when his co star (Kyrie) kept them within distance (rather than failing to do so when his co star brought them up 20) while his teammates were a combined 3/15 from three (imagine having good offense when ur teammates aren’t making all their threes against a great defense! Maybe breaking the defense down matters) hit a game winning three over Gobert in game 2 en route to a 32 point triple double

This mavs team is stacked though, PJ washington (2/11 from three in these 2 wins), 3 athletic play finishers who all would need to be packaged with multiple picks individually to trade for Aaron Gordon, josh green, and Jason Kidd at the helm!

Not only that but Luka has a sore back, Achilles, knee, and elbow. Jokic was just sorely missed whenever the team actually needed him.

Maybe it’s a matchup thing, after all, I saw comments about the wolves having the best defensive frontcourt ever, Gobert (impact has gone down every playofffs of his career and he is decent at best vs strong guys in the post), KAT (literally considered a liability), and Naz Reid (considered slightly above average for his position). Their perimeter defense (NAW, ANT, and of course Jaden McDaniels perhaps the best man to man defender on the nba not rhyming with du lort) is severely lacking though in comparison

Imagine if luka was even moderately healthy, this series would be completely out of reach! The wolves are a great defensive team, although seeing them gassed up as the best most dominant defensive front court in NBA history by some on here because they were tall and could hit the double team button was extremely funny.

The wolves are really a great team though, they can still in the series, gotta figure out how to get ANT going when the opposing center isn’t on weight watchers though.

I don’t know though, Tatum folding when the lights start shining whilst on the most stacked team in human history that isn’t in San fransisco might move me more than Luka getting the job done in the “DPOY” because of a excel file I saw on Twitter get passed around explaining he actually has been the best player in the league the past 5 years



Luka sure is great, if he wins a title this may be the best title run of the last few years, considering the hardships he has gone through.


Playoff EPM so far (noisy in small samples)
Jokic: +6.7
Luka: +4.7

Playoff BPM so far
Jokic: +12.8
Luka: +6.7

Total Playoff EPM WAR Generated by Each Supporting Cast
Jokic: 0.9
Luka: 5

Totaly Playoff BPM WAR Generated by Each Supporting Cast:
Jokic: 2.2
Luka: 6.5

Seems like a pretty simple story


All the above stats say is that Jokic can fill a stat sheet better than Luka. It doesn't excuse the fact that the Jokic-led offense in the Nuggets (with him being a primary creator) struggled to do much against a Minnesota team (and frankly the Lakers before) that Luka's Mavericks seem to be having a much easier time dealing with.


Right, and the above stats say that the difference in team results this post-season is entirely because Luka’s supporting cast is performing way better than Jokić‘s supporting cast. Not because Luka has been better and or more valuable than Jokic
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3517 » by HadAnEffectHere » Sun May 26, 2024 3:15 pm

Luka really sucked for like the first 10 games of this postseason and the Mavs still won because somehow PJ Washington outshot Chet Holmgren and Jalen Williams.

I feel like trying to retcon out how bad Luka was in the first 10 games of this postseason is pretty weird and is trying to force a narrative about stars instead of recognizing how dependent the playoffs are on health and pure luck.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3518 » by AEnigma » Sun May 26, 2024 3:30 pm

Against the Timberwolves, the Mavericks without Luka are 10/35 from 3 (28.6%) and 18/25 (72%) on free throws, or per game, 5/17.5 and 9/12.5.

The Nuggets were 65/172 from 3 (37.8%) and 59/77 (76.6%) on free throws, or per game, 9.3/24.6 and 8.4/11.

On-court, Jokic had a 111.9 offensive rating agains the Wolves. Booker had a 111.6 offensive rating. Luka has a 114.7 offensive rating.

Luka is creating better offence against the Timberwolves despite worse spacing, worse shooting variance, and what should be a worse individual matchup (oh, but I suppose I am forgetting to factor in how Jokic struggling against doubles means the Wolves have a uniquely elite recipe to beat the Nuggets :roll:). Luka has provided more scoring lift, more creation lift, and more individual spacing, all while being notably less healthy.

Tough to adjust when it turns out everyone’s perception of the “empty stats” / “winning basketball” dichotomy becomes completely reversed in the most important games of the season.
Special_Puppy
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3519 » by Special_Puppy » Sun May 26, 2024 3:45 pm

AEnigma wrote:Against the Timberwolves, the Mavericks without Luka are 10/35 from 3 (28.6%) and 18/25 (72%) on free throws, or per game, 5/17.5 and 9/12.5.

The Nuggets were 65/172 from 3 (37.8%) and 59/77 (76.6%) on free throws, or per game, 9.3/24.6 and 8.4/11.

On-court, Jokic had a 111.9 offensive rating agains the Wolves. Booker had a 111.6 offensive rating. Luka has a 114.7 offensive rating.

Luka is creating better offence against the Timberwolves despite worse spacing, worse shooting variance, and what should be a worse individual matchup (oh, but I suppose I am forgetting to factor in how Jokic struggling against doubles means the Wolves have a uniquely elite recipe to beat the Nuggets :roll:). Luka has provided more scoring lift, more creation lift, and more individual spacing, all while being notably less healthy.

Tough to adjust when it turns out everyone’s perception of the “empty stats” / “winning basketball” dichotomy becomes completely reversed in the most important games of the season.


Against the Timberwolves specifically, Jokic’s average prior EPM is +5.7 while Luka’s is +5 over 2 games.
HadAnEffectHere
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3520 » by HadAnEffectHere » Sun May 26, 2024 4:03 pm

AEnigma wrote:Against the Timberwolves, the Mavericks without Luka are 10/35 from 3 (28.6%) and 18/25 (72%) on free throws, or per game, 5/17.5 and 9/12.5.

The Nuggets were 65/172 from 3 (37.8%) and 59/77 (76.6%) on free throws, or per game, 9.3/24.6 and 8.4/11.

On-court, Jokic had a 111.9 offensive rating agains the Wolves. Booker had a 111.6 offensive rating. Luka has a 114.7 offensive rating.

Luka is creating better offence against the Timberwolves despite worse spacing, worse shooting variance, and what should be a worse individual matchup (oh, but I suppose I am forgetting to factor in how Jokic struggling against doubles means the Wolves have a uniquely elite recipe to beat the Nuggets :roll:). Luka has provided more scoring lift, more creation lift, and more individual spacing, all while being notably less healthy.

Tough to adjust when it turns out everyone’s perception of the “empty stats” / “winning basketball” dichotomy becomes completely reversed in the most important games of the season.


Wow, cool, could you post Luka's stats for the first 10 games of the postseason.

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