Around The League - Bill Walton passes from cancer at 71

[rilamann]

Nice work, Baddy. Not sure if I should be impressed, flattered or afraid....lol.

But I already admitted that I watched 2-3 (If that) Blazers games a year and I believed the Dame hype. I watched Dame win the 3pt shoot-out at the all star weekend and I saw the highlights of the logo 3's. I saw him on the all-time 75th anniversary team. I didn't actually watch Dame play basketball on a nightly basis.

But then I watched Dame play basketball up close and on a regular basis for 7 months. Over the course of those 7 months I realized that Dame is an overrated volume shooter who absolutely kills your team defense. Dame is a talented individual player and he has his moments, but he's not a guy you are ever going to win anything of significance with. It took me about a quarter of the season to begin to realize this. I should have taken a better look at Dame's track record.

All of my Dame related posts that you quoted are from October & November.

My post from a few days ago

For instance someone might say, Rilamann, you were all for the Jrue for Dame trade back in September.

I was, but I also only watched 2 or 3 Blazers games a year. When it came to Dame I saw the cool Logo 3's and I saw Dame win the 3pt shootout at all star weekend back in 2023. So I was like yeah, I like it. I believed the hype.

Now pay me Jon Horst's salary and I promise you, I would have watched and dissected every game that Dame played in over the past 5 or 6 years before I would have pulled any trigger on a Dame for Jrue trade.

After watching Dame play basketball 2-3 times a week over the course of about 7 months. I find it hard to believe that anyone who knows basketball and has extensively watched Jrue Holiday play basketball and has extensively watched Damian Lillard play basketball, would come to the conclusion that Dame is the better basketball player.

I also basically admitted I was being a frustrated, emotional Bucks fan with the Jrue slander at the end of the playoffs in 2023.

My post from last night.

I got caught up in the whole Jrue got cooked by Butler hype last season.

Even in the moment I knew I was wrong for it, but it was so frustrating to watch.

But by about mid-November I came back to my senses and realized that trading a guy who is the epitome of both class and winning, for an overrated volume shooter who doesn't play defense was a massive blunder.

So yeah, I basically admitted I was wrong about the Dame trade and I was wrong for slandering Jrue. Not sure what more you want from me.

Watch on YouTube

[-Jragon-]

Jrue would have been a great backcourt mate for Dame if Khris was eligible to be traded (and was sent instead) at that moment. Ahhhh a man can dream.

Maybe Grayson could have stayed too... that would have been a nasty team and kicked Indy/Boston a$$:

Dame (Bev eventually)
Jrue/Beas
Grayson AJJ
Giannis/Grant William's
Brook

[Baddy Chuck]

Spoiler:

Nice work, Baddy. Not sure if I should be impressed, flattered or afraid....lol.

But I already admitted that I watched 2-3 (If that) Blazers games a year and I believed the Dame hype. I watched Dame win the 3pt shoot-out at the all star weekend and I saw the highlights of the logo 3's. I saw him on the all-time 75th anniversary team. I didn't actually watch Dame play basketball on a nightly basis.

But then I watched Dame play basketball up close and on a regular basis for 7 months. Over the course of those 7 months I realized that Dame is an overrated volume shooter who absolutely kills your team defense. Dame is a talented individual player and he has his moments, but he's not a guy you are ever going to win anything of significance with. It took me about a quarter of the season to begin to realize this. I should have taken a better look at Dame's track record.

All of my Dame related posts that you quoted are from October & November.

My post from a few days ago

For instance someone might say, Rilamann, you were all for the Jrue for Dame trade back in September.

I was, but I also only watched 2 or 3 Blazers games a year. When it came to Dame I saw the cool Logo 3's and I saw Dame win the 3pt shootout at all star weekend back in 2023. So I was like yeah, I like it. I believed the hype.

Now pay me Jon Horst's salary and I promise you, I would have watched and dissected every game that Dame played in over the past 5 or 6 years before I would have pulled any trigger on a Dame for Jrue trade.

After watching Dame play basketball 2-3 times a week over the course of about 7 months. I find it hard to believe that anyone who knows basketball and has extensively watched Jrue Holiday play basketball and has extensively watched Damian Lillard play basketball, would come to the conclusion that Dame is the better basketball player.

I also basically admitted I was being a frustrated, emotional Bucks fan with the Jrue slander at the end of the playoffs in 2023.

My post from last night.

I got caught up in the whole Jrue got cooked by Butler hype last season.

Even in the moment I knew I was wrong for it, but it was so frustrating to watch.

But by about mid-November I came back to my senses and realized that trading a guy who is the epitome of both class and winning, for an overrated volume shooter who doesn't play defense was a massive blunder.

So yeah, I basically admitted I was wrong about the Dame trade and I was wrong for slandering Jrue. Not sure what more you want from me.

Watch on YouTube

It's the exact same circular logic "Bucks bad" bull you've been going on for years but with a new bow. It's the same "man's team" nonsense that you spouted that whole season we won 46 games, all the way until we won the championship and spouted again for 2 more years after that until the boiling point with Jrue and Bud. You can act like it was a spur of the moment development that led to you eviscerating Jrue but you've literally been talking **** about him and the whole team for years. Maybe we were better off with Bud and Grayson too you've said at times this season (half joking maybe, I dunno) but you destroyed them to the ends of the earth as well. If Jrue was still here, you'd still be talking **** about him and we'd still have been first round fodder more likely than not. I'm not sure he'd have put up a loser 31 on 64% TS% either as he didn't the last couple times he laid an egg during our elimination series that you didn't seem all too pleased with his "winning ways". The stuff that annoys me these days is all this hypocritical bull about new/old guys and this is sure as hell that. Maybe the Bucks do something with Dame to get the same "mans team" rollback we've seen before, but even then we'll be back to the same "Bucks bad" circular logic before long. This ain't a Dame/Jrue thing, this is a rilamann bull thing. You've been a "believer" in anything Milwaukee Bucks like 3 or 4 weeks out of the last like half decade and funnily enough, it was Dame more than literally anything.

[Coach Carter]

Not having a starting level shooting guard all these years, put a lot of pressure on Jrue and he's just not that guy on offense. Horst needed to find a Derrick White type dude. We knew what we were giving up when we traded Jrue, but with Dame available, I think every GM makes that move and worries about finding the right balance later.

[Finn]

Someone's "smartest man in the room" schtick took a broadside & I'm here for the sinking.

[jute2003]

[quote="Finn"]Someone's "smartest man in the room" schtick took a broadside & I'm here for the sinking. [/quote]

You can only be the first to say something so many times before someone tells you to shove it I guess.

[JayMKE]

Why is the series loss to Miami such a watershed moment? It was frustrating to have another playoff run sank by injury but the reality is the center of this team’s universe and the only reason its ever been a contender has been Giannis so it makes no sense to put outsized blame on Jrue or Budenholzer. Did anyone really expect the team to win vs Indy without Giannis? IMO Miami was a better team than Indy was this year. I don’t know how anybody could have watched the team this year and think it was better than years past, I don’t understand the fanboyism & bunker mentality that’s going on here versus perfectly valid opinions. You realize we’re not actual literal RealGMs right? Your opinions literally make zero difference whatsoever. One can experience the alternative and think awww geez we made a mistake after the fact we’re allowed to do it, this isn’t a PR firm or politics where you have to cope and carry on a straight face because the sunk cost is too much to bare.

[tydett]

Not having a starting level shooting guard all these years, put a lot of pressure on Jrue and he's just not that guy on offense. Horst needed to find a Derrick White type dude. We knew what we were giving up when we traded Jrue, but with Dame available, I think every GM makes that move and worries about finding the right balance later.

It's not even a shooting guard problem - Jrue is a better offguard and secondary playmaker. We didn't have a lead guard which shoved Jrue into the role, forcing him to assume offensive playmaking abilities he's good, but not excellent at. It led to our halfcourt offense breakdowns because Jrue couldn't penetrative and finish at the rim nor reliably get dudes open. White has been an excellent pairing for him because White can shoulder the playmaking duties leaving Jrue to focus his efforts on defense, where he's a standout.

The martyrdom claims for Jrue from PP and other silly posters are just them trolling - everybody here loves Jrue, just many of us realize that he's a great player who we needed to be elite the past two years and he just wasn't up to it - and was our only real asset that could be used to find that elite player.

[sidney lanier]

The martyrdom claims for Jrue from PP and other silly posters are just them trolling - everybody here loves Jrue, just many of us realize that he's a great player who we needed to be elite the past two years and he just wasn't up to it - and was our only real asset that could be used to find that elite player.

Very good point. Yes, the NBA gods made an unexpected bank shot and he caromed into Boston, and I understand how that stings a little here. But that doesn't change the fact that we needed an upgrade.

OK, the upgrade hasn't looked very upgrade-like this year, but it's hard to judge it after this disjointed season. Early Luka + Kyrie looked hopeless, and now look at them. Give it time, and wish Jrue Boston-style success: make a nice playoff run, then fizzle.

[paulpressey25]

The martyrdom claims for Jrue from PP and other silly posters are just them trolling - everybody here loves Jrue, just many of us realize that he's a great player who we needed to be elite the past two years and he just wasn't up to it - and was our only real asset that could be used to find that elite player.

Not going to do the Baddy Chuck historical archive, but the majority of this board spent the entire season pointing out every crap game that Jrue had, in an effort to ease the pain that nothing was going right for the Bucks this season, including the Dame trade not paying off like we thought it would.

[Daver]

The martyrdom claims for Jrue from PP and other silly posters are just them trolling - everybody here loves Jrue, just many of us realize that he's a great player who we needed to be elite the past two years and he just wasn't up to it - and was our only real asset that could be used to find that elite player.

Not going to do the Baddy Chuck historical archive, but the majority of this board spent the entire season pointing out every crap game that Jrue had, in an effort to ease the pain that nothing was going right for the Bucks this season, including the Dame trade not paying off like we thought it would.

Everyone judging this trade on 1 year sometimes it takes 2 years to see if a trade works out.Fu.. the big 3 only played together 13xs or so thry had 2 HCs amoung other things going wrong.All 3 have said badically the same thing that this year they didnt have much chance to work on the chemistry n next year will be much much better.B4 we throw dames trade out in the bathwater lets see what a full TC n hopefully a healthy big 3 playing together all year will do.
The fact thst some posters can already say the dame trade is a bust is hypocritical seeing that for 85% of the gsmes this year midds n dame n giannis werent together.Plus seeing what happens at the 2 spot will help to

[sidney lanier]

I don't get the feeling that this board generally begrudges Jrue whatever success he has this year. But the Jrue-as-hero narrative needs to be tempered against the luck they have had to get where they are. Yes, he made a big play last night, but he is the third or fourth option on a team that hasn't had a straw in its path (as they say in horse racing) on the way to the wire.

Here is what we know at this moment: These Celtics are one of a handful of teams who never had to face a 50-win opponent on its path to the NBA Finals, and, if Haliburton cannot return, they would be the sole one to beat those opponents without their best player on the floor for any of the series-clinching games.

Even more fortunate for them, perhaps, are the injuries that led these Celtics to the Heat, Cavaliers and Pacers. Indiana beat Milwaukee without Giannis Antetokounmpo and New York without half its rotation. Joel Embiid's knee injury impacted Philadelphia's seeding and its ability to emerge from the first round.

https://sports.yahoo.com/are-the-celtics-enjoying-the-easiest-path-ever-to-an-nba-finals-173101227.html

[Fotis St]

I thing Baddy Chuck needs to be renamed to
Body Check

[Dick Tate]

The martyrdom claims for Jrue from PP and other silly posters are just them trolling - everybody here loves Jrue, just many of us realize that he's a great player who we needed to be elite the past two years and he just wasn't up to it - and was our only real asset that could be used to find that elite player.

Not going to do the Baddy Chuck historical archive, but the majority of this board spent the entire season pointing out every crap game that Jrue had, in an effort to ease the pain that nothing was going right for the Bucks this season, including the Dame trade not paying off like we thought it would.

You’re WAY off on this one.

[JayMKE]

The martyrdom claims for Jrue from PP and other silly posters are just them trolling - everybody here loves Jrue, just many of us realize that he's a great player who we needed to be elite the past two years and he just wasn't up to it - and was our only real asset that could be used to find that elite player.

Not going to do the Baddy Chuck historical archive, but the majority of this board spent the entire season pointing out every crap game that Jrue had, in an effort to ease the pain that nothing was going right for the Bucks this season, including the Dame trade not paying off like we thought it would.

Everyone judging this trade on 1 year sometimes it takes 2 years to see if a trade works out.Fu.. the big 3 only played together 13xs or so thry had 2 HCs amoung other things going wrong.All 3 have said badically the same thing that this year they didnt have much chance to work on the chemistry n next year will be much much better.B4 we throw dames trade out in the bathwater lets see what a full TC n hopefully a healthy big 3 playing together all year will do.
The fact thst some posters can already say the dame trade is a bust is hypocritical seeing that for 85% of the gsmes this year midds n dame n giannis werent together.Plus seeing what happens at the 2 spot will help to

There is nothing "hypocritical" about having an evolving opinion about something that's in progress; some people nail it early on, some it slowly dawns on, while others don't get it until the results speak for itself after the fact. Our issues are the team is too old, unathletic, lacking depth, doesn't play enough defense, and our top players are paid too much putting us into a second apron that severely restricts any avenue this team has to improve. I think it's going to take more than finding 1 guy to plug in to fix the issues, I don't think it can be done while doubling down on this core and I think its imperative if this team is going to have a 2nd act with Giannis to do it sooner rather than later.

[BUCKnation]

Jrue or no Jrue, I hate the Celtics with an abiding passion.

Almost hate them more with the stupid dame/jrue narrative in play

[Daver]

Not going to do the Baddy Chuck historical archive, but the majority of this board spent the entire season pointing out every crap game that Jrue had, in an effort to ease the pain that nothing was going right for the Bucks this season, including the Dame trade not paying off like we thought it would.

Everyone judging this trade on 1 year sometimes it takes 2 years to see if a trade works out.Fu.. the big 3 only played together 13xs or so thry had 2 HCs amoung other things going wrong.All 3 have said badically the same thing that this year they didnt have much chance to work on the chemistry n next year will be much much better.B4 we throw dames trade out in the bathwater lets see what a full TC n hopefully a healthy big 3 playing together all year will do.
The fact thst some posters can already say the dame trade is a bust is hypocritical seeing that for 85% of the gsmes this year midds n dame n giannis werent together.Plus seeing what happens at the 2 spot will help to

There is nothing "hypocritical" about having an evolving opinion about something that's in progress; some people nail it early on, some it slowly dawns on, while others don't get it until the results speak for itself after the fact. Our issues are the team is too old, unathletic, lacking depth, doesn't play enough defense, and our top players are paid too much putting us into a second apron that severely restricts any avenue this team has to improve. I think it's going to take more than finding 1 guy to plug in to fix the issues, I don't think it can be done while doubling down on this core and I think its imperative if this team is going to have a 2nd act with Giannis to do it sooner rather than later.

I know its a big if( health) but if dames 1st year here they get to the finals ( personally think they beat indy with a full squad) n a beat up NY team would all this bad trade dame needs to go need to get younger by trading midds and or dame even be talked about or would it be lets tinker eith the edges bring in a caruso or jones to join our big 3.The fact giannis missed the whole series dame 2 games was a bigger reason they lost more so they are old IMO

[Daver]

I know RS games dont mean much but the bucks hsndled the Cs both times at home pretty easily n lost to them in boston by 3 n 6 points so again who knows if boston even beats the bucks in the ECFs if bucks were healthy.All im saying is that the dame trade is to early to judge it because gisnnis missed the indy series n all 3 stars admit it was still a work in progress

[BUCKnation]

Jrue is basically the equivalent of pat bev for them. It’d be amazing to be in that situation where he was that far down the pecking order.

That said, outside of that great steal last night is he, or anyone else on their team putting a dent into stopping mcconnell, hali or nehmhard. They are struggling just as much with, on paper, way better personnel to do so.

[Dick Tate]

It’s just a stupid fake narrative that a couple folks are attempting to create. The Celtics were 11-2 in games Jrue missed. It became clear early on that he was just a cog in their machine.