Simons to Orl

[jbk1234]

I feel like people who cite EPM as evidence don't realize that it is an extremely unreliable stat. Hartenstein is better than Tatum? Nurkic is better than Sabonis? VanVleet better than Anthony Edwards? Joel Embiid better defensive EPM than gobert?

Yeah, sure. Okay.

Simons isn't good at defense, but he's almost certainly not the worst.

LOL, go with your feelings then.

EPM is considered the best or top 2 of the overall metrics currently produced.

I did not need EPM to tell me calling Simons a traffic cone on defense gives traffic cones a bad name.

I saw it with my own eyes every time I watched him.

The first word in EPM is estimated. It's literally a projection based on a number of subjective variables. It's pretty unreliable.

Not arguing that Simons is a good defender, he's not, but I wouldn't plant any flags based on EPM.

[JRoy]

AaronB will obviously hate this, but I’m curious what others think of this trade purposed/negotiated by the Locked on Blazers and Locked on Magic guys.

Magic get: Simons, Robert Williams
Blazers get: WCJ, Black, 2025 top 4 protected Magic pick

37:30 for final proposal, and more discussion led up to that: https://youtu.be/HLNu0qO_DuI?si=0QO_xb99WYdYJKcA

I dont think Williams has any value and so i think giving up a solid starter, a lottery pick from last season and a future lightly protected 1st is an overpay for Simons. I do like Williams when he's healthy, but we are left with no real starting center because Williams is unreliable, so the Magic would still need to sign a starting center.

Its good to put this offer into more context, so I have a question for Blazers fans.. Can you think of any other team that is willing to give up that much for Simons? Or even anything close to that? What teams would be looking to trade for Simons, and what do you expect them to offer? I never see any Simons trade ideas/rumors that dont have him going to Orlando...

Back at you, I have a question for Magic fans.What would the Magics playoff chances have been with Simons perimeter shooting?

I don't follow the Magic, or watch your games, but when teams have limited perimeter shooting, it makes it easier for opposing defenses to focus on stopping players like Franz.

I thought I read somewhere that Gary Harris could pretty much produce like Simons with better d if he got the shots.

[Residual-Heat]

AaronB will obviously hate this, but I’m curious what others think of this trade purposed/negotiated by the Locked on Blazers and Locked on Magic guys.

Magic get: Simons, Robert Williams
Blazers get: WCJ, Black, 2025 top 4 protected Magic pick

37:30 for final proposal, and more discussion led up to that: https://youtu.be/HLNu0qO_DuI?si=0QO_xb99WYdYJKcA

I dont think Williams has any value and so i think giving up a solid starter, a lottery pick from last season and a future lightly protected 1st is an overpay for Simons. I do like Williams when he's healthy, but we are left with no real starting center because Williams is unreliable, so the Magic would still need to sign a starting center.

Its good to put this offer into more context, so I have a question for Blazers fans.. Can you think of any other team that is willing to give up that much for Simons? Or even anything close to that? What teams would be looking to trade for Simons, and what do you expect them to offer? I never see any Simons trade ideas/rumors that dont have him going to Orlando...

Back at you, I have a question for Magic fans.What would the Magics playoff chances have been with Simons perimeter shooting?

I don't follow the Magic, or watch your games, but when teams have limited perimeter shooting, it makes it easier for opposing defenses to focus on stopping players like Franz.

Probably couldve made the second round, but that is not saying much. We got very little out of Cole and Harris in the play offs. We probably couldve made the second round with TJ McConnel too, but that doesnt mean im giving up WCJ+Black and a 1st for him.

We all understand the Magic need to upgrade from Gary Harris, but Simons is not the only player available on the market that could help. Monk, Dlo, Tyus Jones are FAs, others like Murray, Garland, Colin Sexton and CJ Mccollum could be available though trade.

[Skybox]

I dont think Williams has any value and so i think giving up a solid starter, a lottery pick from last season and a future lightly protected 1st is an overpay for Simons. I do like Williams when he's healthy, but we are left with no real starting center because Williams is unreliable, so the Magic would still need to sign a starting center.

Its good to put this offer into more context, so I have a question for Blazers fans.. Can you think of any other team that is willing to give up that much for Simons? Or even anything close to that? What teams would be looking to trade for Simons, and what do you expect them to offer? I never see any Simons trade ideas/rumors that dont have him going to Orlando...

Back at you, I have a question for Magic fans.What would the Magics playoff chances have been with Simons perimeter shooting?

I don't follow the Magic, or watch your games, but when teams have limited perimeter shooting, it makes it easier for opposing defenses to focus on stopping players like Franz.

I thought I read somewhere that Gary Harris could pretty much produce like Simons with better d if he got the shots.

Is that Gary Harris's Mom's podcast?

[JRoy]

Back at you, I have a question for Magic fans.What would the Magics playoff chances have been with Simons perimeter shooting?

I don't follow the Magic, or watch your games, but when teams have limited perimeter shooting, it makes it easier for opposing defenses to focus on stopping players like Franz.

I thought I read somewhere that Gary Harris could pretty much produce like Simons with better d if he got the shots.

Is that Gary Harris's Mom's podcast?

Lol

[Butter]

I dont think Williams has any value and so i think giving up a solid starter, a lottery pick from last season and a future lightly protected 1st is an overpay for Simons. I do like Williams when he's healthy, but we are left with no real starting center because Williams is unreliable, so the Magic would still need to sign a starting center.

Its good to put this offer into more context, so I have a question for Blazers fans.. Can you think of any other team that is willing to give up that much for Simons? Or even anything close to that? What teams would be looking to trade for Simons, and what do you expect them to offer? I never see any Simons trade ideas/rumors that dont have him going to Orlando...

Back at you, I have a question for Magic fans.What would the Magics playoff chances have been with Simons perimeter shooting?

I don't follow the Magic, or watch your games, but when teams have limited perimeter shooting, it makes it easier for opposing defenses to focus on stopping players like Franz.

Probably couldve made the second round, but that is not saying much. We got very little out of Cole and Harris in the play offs. We probably couldve made the second round with TJ McConnel too, but that doesnt mean im giving up WCJ+Black and a 1st for him.

We all understand the Magic need to upgrade from Gary Harris, but Simons is not the only player available on the market that could help. Monk, Dlo, Tyus Jones are FAs, others like Murray, Garland, Colin Sexton and CJ Mccollum could be available though trade.

I'm not in the Blazers camp advocating for trading for Black. From the Magic side, teaming Simons and Black is the most appealing pairing, IMHO.

My preference is to take a short term salary and focus on draft picks coming back to the Blazers.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Back at you, I have a question for Magic fans.What would the Magics playoff chances have been with Simons perimeter shooting?

I don't follow the Magic, or watch your games, but when teams have limited perimeter shooting, it makes it easier for opposing defenses to focus on stopping players like Franz.

I thought I read somewhere that Gary Harris could pretty much produce like Simons with better d if he got the shots.

Is that Gary Harris's Mom's podcast?

Probably Orlando Joe or whatever his username is

[Myth]

I dont think Williams has any value and so i think giving up a solid starter, a lottery pick from last season and a future lightly protected 1st is an overpay for Simons. I do like Williams when he's healthy, but we are left with no real starting center because Williams is unreliable, so the Magic would still need to sign a starting center.

Its good to put this offer into more context, so I have a question for Blazers fans.. Can you think of any other team that is willing to give up that much for Simons? Or even anything close to that? What teams would be looking to trade for Simons, and what do you expect them to offer? I never see any Simons trade ideas/rumors that dont have him going to Orlando...

Back at you, I have a question for Magic fans.What would the Magics playoff chances have been with Simons perimeter shooting?

I don't follow the Magic, or watch your games, but when teams have limited perimeter shooting, it makes it easier for opposing defenses to focus on stopping players like Franz.

Probably couldve made the second round, but that is not saying much. We got very little out of Cole and Harris in the play offs. We probably couldve made the second round with TJ McConnel too, but that doesnt mean im giving up WCJ+Black and a 1st for him.

We all understand the Magic need to upgrade from Gary Harris, but Simons is not the only player available on the market that could help. Monk, Dlo, Tyus Jones are FAs, others like Murray, Garland, Colin Sexton and CJ Mccollum could be available though trade.

To be clear, I don’t expect that trade value from Simons, and I wouldn’t share that proposal if it were just coming from a Portland perspective. I was sharing it more due to surprise that an Orlando Magic podcaster was onboard.

[Wizenheimer]

AaronB will obviously hate this, but I’m curious what others think of this trade purposed/negotiated by the Locked on Blazers and Locked on Magic guys.

Magic get: Simons, Robert Williams
Blazers get: WCJ, Black, 2025 top 4 protected Magic pick

37:30 for final proposal, and more discussion led up to that: https://youtu.be/HLNu0qO_DuI?si=0QO_xb99WYdYJKcA

I'd say WCJ is FAR more valuable and just better than even a healthy Williams...but we've never seen a healthy Williams for long.

BUT...I love Time Lord and would happily take him back in a Simons trade. But no way would I trade my starting C for him unless I've already got a wink wink deal with Claxton for Free Agency day 1. Williams as a backup-absolutely. Hope for health. Williams as a core piece to be relied upon...just can't.

I'd have to think he's close to neutral at best, sadly. As in, if you've got cap space, send us a couple of token srps and take him. POR could certainly hang onto him and hope for the best...especially since Ayton isn't going anywhere.

Timelord appears to have Brandon Roy knees, so yeah, he's pretty close to sunk cost and lost cause

but it's not like WCJ has been a picture of health. He's played 315 regular season games in 6 seasons. That an average of 52-53 games a year. Now, there were the two covid years in there but even adjusting for them WCJ has missed, on average, around 25-28 games a year. That deducts a lot from his value

all that said, as a Blazer fan extremely tired of Portland trotting out undersized, no-defense SG's (9 years of CJ-->Simons....ughhh). I 'm also a Blazer fan that doesn't value Simons that high because of his very notable flaws. To start with, he's not bad at defense....he's terrible at it. Meaning he has no 3&D value. None. He also has no two-way player value. None. because he sucks at defense and is 6'3, he has nowhere near the versatility and length to have value as a modern NBA wing. He's a good shooter and was great in clutch moments, this year at least. But he has poor court vision, and at times is a dribble monster with ball-hog traits. Personally, I think he's a net negative as a starter and the stats bear that out

his best role would be as a 6th man microwave off the bench in a Lou Williams/Jamal Crawford role. But 27M/year is a lot to pay for a 6th man. If he's a starting guard, his running mate at the other guard needs to have good length and be strong defensively

[Butter]

AaronB will obviously hate this, but I’m curious what others think of this trade purposed/negotiated by the Locked on Blazers and Locked on Magic guys.

Magic get: Simons, Robert Williams
Blazers get: WCJ, Black, 2025 top 4 protected Magic pick

37:30 for final proposal, and more discussion led up to that: https://youtu.be/HLNu0qO_DuI?si=0QO_xb99WYdYJKcA

I'd say WCJ is FAR more valuable and just better than even a healthy Williams...but we've never seen a healthy Williams for long.

BUT...I love Time Lord and would happily take him back in a Simons trade. But no way would I trade my starting C for him unless I've already got a wink wink deal with Claxton for Free Agency day 1. Williams as a backup-absolutely. Hope for health. Williams as a core piece to be relied upon...just can't.

I'd have to think he's close to neutral at best, sadly. As in, if you've got cap space, send us a couple of token srps and take him. POR could certainly hang onto him and hope for the best...especially since Ayton isn't going anywhere.

Timelord appears to have Brandon Roy knees, so yeah, he's pretty close to sunk cost and lost cause

but it's not like WCJ has been a picture of health. He's played 315 regular season games in 6 seasons. That an average of 52-53 games a year. Now, there were the two covid years in there but even adjusting for them WCJ has missed, on average, around 25-28 games a year. That deducts a lot from his value

all that said, as a Blazer fan extremely tired of Portland trotting out undersized, no-defense SG's (9 years of CJ-->Simons....ughhh). I 'm also a Blazer fan that doesn't value Simons that high because of his very notable flaws. To start with, he's not bad at defense....he's terrible at it. Meaning he has no 3&D value. None. He also has no two-way player value. None. because he sucks at defense and is 6'3, he has nowhere near the versatility and length to have value as a modern NBA wing. He's a good shooter and was great in clutch moments, this year at least. But he has poor court vision, and at times is a dribble monster with ball-hog traits. Personally, I think he's a net negative as a starter and the stats bear that out

his best role would be as a 6th man microwave off the bench in a Lou Williams/Jamal Crawford role. But 27M/year is a lot to pay for a 6th man. If he's a starting guard, his running mate at the other guard needs to have good length and be strong defensively

Sounds like Anthony Black

[Skybox]

I'd say WCJ is FAR more valuable and just better than even a healthy Williams...but we've never seen a healthy Williams for long.

BUT...I love Time Lord and would happily take him back in a Simons trade. But no way would I trade my starting C for him unless I've already got a wink wink deal with Claxton for Free Agency day 1. Williams as a backup-absolutely. Hope for health. Williams as a core piece to be relied upon...just can't.

I'd have to think he's close to neutral at best, sadly. As in, if you've got cap space, send us a couple of token srps and take him. POR could certainly hang onto him and hope for the best...especially since Ayton isn't going anywhere.

Timelord appears to have Brandon Roy knees, so yeah, he's pretty close to sunk cost and lost cause

but it's not like WCJ has been a picture of health. He's played 315 regular season games in 6 seasons. That an average of 52-53 games a year. Now, there were the two covid years in there but even adjusting for them WCJ has missed, on average, around 25-28 games a year. That deducts a lot from his value

all that said, as a Blazer fan extremely tired of Portland trotting out undersized, no-defense SG's (9 years of CJ-->Simons....ughhh). I 'm also a Blazer fan that doesn't value Simons that high because of his very notable flaws. To start with, he's not bad at defense....he's terrible at it. Meaning he has no 3&D value. None. He also has no two-way player value. None. because he sucks at defense and is 6'3, he has nowhere near the versatility and length to have value as a modern NBA wing. He's a good shooter and was great in clutch moments, this year at least. But he has poor court vision, and at times is a dribble monster with ball-hog traits. Personally, I think he's a net negative as a starter and the stats bear that out

his best role would be as a 6th man microwave off the bench in a Lou Williams/Jamal Crawford role. But 27M/year is a lot to pay for a 6th man. If he's a starting guard, his running mate at the other guard needs to have good length and be strong defensively

Sounds like Anthony Black

No...he talked me out of it

and, please don't compare WCJ and Time-Lord's availability. That's just silly.

[Wizenheimer]

and, please don't compare WCJ and Time-Lord's availability. That's just silly.

I didn't think I was comparing them. Just pointing out that WCJ seems to miss a lot of games each season. Over the last 3 season he's missed 21-25-27. That's a lot, and Portland might be the last team that should gamble on the health of an often injured big man. Bill Walton-Sam Bowie-Greg Oden....geeeeezuzzz

[Residual-Heat]

and, please don't compare WCJ and Time-Lord's availability. That's just silly.

I didn't think I was comparing them. Just pointing out that WCJ seems to miss a lot of games each season. Over the last 3 season he's missed 21-25-27. That's a lot, and Portland might be the last team that should gamble on the health of an often injured big man. Bill Walton-Sam Bowie-Greg Oden....geeeeezuzzz

while thats true, its worth mentioning that he still played more games than Simons.

[Wizenheimer]

and, please don't compare WCJ and Time-Lord's availability. That's just silly.

I didn't think I was comparing them. Just pointing out that WCJ seems to miss a lot of games each season. Over the last 3 season he's missed 21-25-27. That's a lot, and Portland might be the last team that should gamble on the health of an often injured big man. Bill Walton-Sam Bowie-Greg Oden....geeeeezuzzz

while thats true, its worth mentioning that he still played more games than Simons.

Portland was tanking after the trade deadline. Mystery injuries for all of the vets, except Ayton