2023-24 NBA Season Discussion

[AEnigma]

How many people have you seen disagree with Jokic being better than Luka through ten games.

Unprecedented coddling.

[Special_Puppy]

Part of the problem with post-season analysis is that its much harder to decompose team results like we can in the regular season (I.E. Luka had a +5 plus-minus while Kyrie had a +3 etc) so there's much more degrees of freedom in interpreting results

[eminence]

It's a frustrating series rooting for Minnesota because so much of the issue is just KAT shooting/scoring so poorly.

Here's hoping he bounces back starting in the 2nd half.

[Special_Puppy]

Some dude really just created an account to post diatribes against Jokic

[tsherkin]

This Dallas/Minny game has been awesome.

[rk2023]

Luka and Kyrie were not one bit short of magical tonight closing out the Wolves

[GSP]

Kidd and his coaching staff might be the 2nd best in the league behind Spos Heat

Just a ridiculously coached playoff run so far

Hes exposed the weaknesses of Ants boneheaded 22yo playstyle, Rudys poor perimeter defense and nonexistent offensive game aside from catching lobs and Kats one dimensional 6'11 Klay style perfectly. Conley, Naz, Jaden, Slomo the only ones whove shown uup this series

[Statlanta]

Apologies to bigboi and being in his mentions. It was my mistake believing in a Minnesota Timberwolves team.

[Special_Puppy]

Phoenix Suns need to be removed as a NBA team and KD needs to be forced to retire. There's no way they got swept by this team

[TheGOATRises007]

Luka and Kyrie were magical in that 4th quarter

[GSP]

A week ago ppl were so confident the 17th ranked offense and 24th ranked halfcourt offense were beating us in the finals

Ancient Conley has been Wolves best most reliable halfcourt option. Ant and Kat should be ashamed. Disasterclass.

[GSP]

Phoenix Suns need to be removed as a NBA team and KD needs to be forced to retire. There's no way they got swept by this team

Suns roster was trash Tbh and they had no big men. Nurk is one of the worst playoff bigs in Nba history i think he actually has the worst record in playoff games. In Dame and Cj era they made their deepest run to Wcf when Nurk was out. And they had no reliable backup big so the paint discrepancy was enormous from points to rebounds

[itsxtray]

Hopefully Lively's good. That was one of the worst hits to the head I've seen on a basketball court. The back of the head is especially dangerous as well. I mean just look up Prichard Colón, **** can be devastating.

[Peregrine01]

The Wolves are actually posting a higher ORTG against the Mavs than they did against the Nuggets. The difference in this series has been that they haven't been able to stymie Luka/Kyrie like the way they did Murray who was hobbled and isn't near the player that those two are when healthy anyway. McDaniels especially has had very little effect on Luka who's really been big boying him all series long.

[Special_Puppy]

The Wolves are actually posting a higher ORTG against the Mavs than they did against the Nuggets. The difference in this series has been that they haven't been able to stymie Luka/Kyrie like the way they did Murray who was hobbled and isn't near the player that those two are when healthy anyway. McDaniels especially has had very little effect on Luka who's really been big boying him all series long.

Was just about to post this lol

Read on Twitter

[Peregrine01]

Phoenix Suns need to be removed as a NBA team and KD needs to be forced to retire. There's no way they got swept by this team

They were just horribly set up from a team standpoint. Like the Nuggets, they also didn't deal with ball pressure well. Watching Luka neutralize Minny's ball pressure has been very impressive. I thought that they'd give him more problems but he's just so damn big, his ball control is so sound and he sees the floor so well that none of their guards can really bother him. He just carries McDaniels to the rim again and again. Makes you consider just how many levels there are to this game. Luka might be one of the greatest on-ball players ever and Booker and Beal just aren't.

[Peregrine01]

The Wolves are actually posting a higher ORTG against the Mavs than they did against the Nuggets. The difference in this series has been that they haven't been able to stymie Luka/Kyrie like the way they did Murray who was hobbled and isn't near the player that those two are when healthy anyway. McDaniels especially has had very little effect on Luka who's really been big boying him all series long.

Was just about to post this lol

Read on Twitter

Yeah, pretty surprising given how poorly Ant and Kat has shot the ball.

[GSP]

While it looks over for the Wolves i wouldnt count them out completely yet. Theyve played their best ball facing elimination under Finch

They went down 0-3 to Denver last year, won game 4 and then were a possession away from winning game 5 and getting to game 6 at home. That was a Wolves team w/o Naz or Jaden against a better Denver team than this years

Then we know last series they were down 2-3, beat the brakes off Denver by 40 something and then won game 7 on the road off a historic comeback while shutting the Nuggets offense down

I dunno Kats insanely horrific alltime bad shooting numbers, Ant and Naz shooting better from 3 than the field, Gafford and Lively shooting like 80 something % combined from the field Lively literally hasnt missed a shot ........it seems like we're due for some regression on both sides. Wolves getting swept would be shocking Imo

[falcolombardi]

Against the Timberwolves, the Mavericks without Luka are 10/35 from 3 (28.6%) and 18/25 (72%) on free throws, or per game, 5/17.5 and 9/12.5.

The Nuggets were 65/172 from 3 (37.8%) and 59/77 (76.6%) on free throws, or per game, 9.3/24.6 and 8.4/11.

On-court, Jokic had a 111.9 offensive rating agains the Wolves. Booker had a 111.6 offensive rating. Luka has a 114.7 offensive rating.

Luka is creating better offence against the Timberwolves despite worse spacing, worse shooting variance, and what should be a worse individual matchup (oh, but I suppose I am forgetting to factor in how Jokic struggling against doubles means the Wolves have a uniquely elite recipe to beat the Nuggets ). Luka has provided more scoring lift, more creation lift, and more individual spacing, all while being notably less healthy.

Tough to adjust when it turns out everyone’s perception of the “empty stats” / “winning basketball” dichotomy becomes completely reversed in the most important games of the season.

Against the Timberwolves specifically, Jokic’s average prior EPM is +5.7 while Luka’s is +5 over 2 games.

Epm is a fine enough stat (in bigger samples) but you shouldnt use it as a rebuttal to actual basketbsll criticism

Not if you dont want to fall into the trap of anchoring all your basketball views to the most convenient all-in one/plus-minus derivative and then having to twist yourself into a pretzel about why curry rapm counts where chris paul doestn so you can continue ranking players based on it

[Special_Puppy]

Against the Timberwolves, the Mavericks without Luka are 10/35 from 3 (28.6%) and 18/25 (72%) on free throws, or per game, 5/17.5 and 9/12.5.

The Nuggets were 65/172 from 3 (37.8%) and 59/77 (76.6%) on free throws, or per game, 9.3/24.6 and 8.4/11.

On-court, Jokic had a 111.9 offensive rating agains the Wolves. Booker had a 111.6 offensive rating. Luka has a 114.7 offensive rating.

Luka is creating better offence against the Timberwolves despite worse spacing, worse shooting variance, and what should be a worse individual matchup (oh, but I suppose I am forgetting to factor in how Jokic struggling against doubles means the Wolves have a uniquely elite recipe to beat the Nuggets ). Luka has provided more scoring lift, more creation lift, and more individual spacing, all while being notably less healthy.

Tough to adjust when it turns out everyone’s perception of the “empty stats” / “winning basketball” dichotomy becomes completely reversed in the most important games of the season.

Against the Timberwolves specifically, Jokic’s average prior EPM is +5.7 while Luka’s is +5 over 2 games.

Epm is a fine enough stat (in bigger samples) but you shouldnt use it as a rebuttal to actual basketbsll criticism

Not if you dont want to fall into the trap of anchoring all your basketball views to the most convenient all-in one/plus-minus derivative and then having to twist yourself into a pretzel about why curry rapm counts where chris paul doestn so you can continue ranking players based on it

Prior EPM is good enough for getting a very rough idea of what’s going on. Wouldn’t bet my life on it. It does suggest that Luka’s performance vs Jokic’s isn’t really the reason why Dallas has been better vs Minnesota and that you should look elsewhere for further investigation