Free Agency

[Invictus88]

Zero reason Ausar can't start as long as he is the designated non-shooter in the lineup and everyone else can somewhat hit threes.

I am of the opinion that Ausar is far more capable of being a plus starter than Duren is at this point (neither shoot, one plays defense), so if it's one or the other, I'm taking Ausar and slotting in anyone that can hit shots for Duren (even if it means starting Stew at the 5).

Maybe Duren doesn’t shoot 3s, but he shoots 61% from the field, 79% from the line. Does our center/best rebounder have to shoot 3s?

Marvin Bagley shot 59% from the field and 82% from line for us and even shot some from range. And no. That's not good enough.

[Snakebites]

Zero reason Ausar can't start as long as he is the designated non-shooter in the lineup and everyone else can somewhat hit threes.

I am of the opinion that Ausar is far more capable of being a plus starter than Duren is at this point (neither shoot, one plays defense), so if it's one or the other, I'm taking Ausar and slotting in anyone that can hit shots for Duren (even if it means starting Stew at the 5).

Maybe Duren doesn’t shoot 3s, but he shoots 61% from the field, 79% from the line. Does our center/best rebounder have to shoot 3s?

Marvin Bagley shot 59% from the field and 82% from line for us and even shot some from range. And no. That's not good enough.

It would be if we had more shooting at other spots. We don’t.

[7r5ur]

Maybe Duren doesn’t shoot 3s, but he shoots 61% from the field, 79% from the line. Does our center/best rebounder have to shoot 3s?

Marvin Bagley shot 59% from the field and 82% from line for us and even shot some from range. And no. That's not good enough.

It would be if we had more shooting at other spots. We don’t.

Which good teams have centers that don't play defense and don't stretch the floor? Even as backups. I'm legitimately trying to think...

If Duren (or Bagley) were plus defenders this wouldn't really be a convo, but here we are. Likewise if they were splashing triples, you might be able to live with the poor D for a while because the offense would be top tier, hoping Duren improves defensively with time.

In the meantime, it's gonna be tough to win much with someone like Duren (or Bagley) at C, IMO.

[Snakebites]

Marvin Bagley shot 59% from the field and 82% from line for us and even shot some from range. And no. That's not good enough.

It would be if we had more shooting at other spots. We don’t.

Which good teams have centers that don't play defense and don't stretch the floor? Even as backups. I'm legitimately trying to think...

If Bagley or Duren were plus defenders this wouldn't really be a convo, but here we are. Likewise if they were splashing triples, you might be able to live with the poor D for a while because the offense would be top tier, hoping Duren improves defensively with time.

In the meantime, it's gonna be tough to win much with someone like Bagley or Duren at C, IMO.

Yeah the defense is a whole other issue.

If he can’t improve there it’s not even a question of fit at that point.

[bstein14]

Duren did improve in several areas last year including defense. The advanced metrics had him as a pretty poor defender as a rookie but moving up to just slightly below average as a 2nd year player. It's not unlikely for him to take another step forward to slightly above average this year I actually think that's pretty likely. He'll still just be 21 and part of it will be us getting the right vets in next to him to help him get there. We really needed more than we got from Monty last year as far coaching him up and more than we got from Weaver as far as bringing in the right guys to surround the young core with. The last thing we should be wanting for a young guy with huge upside like Duren is to have guys like Bagley and Wiseman be the other bigs... he needs someone better out there to split time with and learn from. Jonas V makes a lot of since for us on a slightly above MLE deal and he also can step out and shoot.

[Kalamazoo317]

He'd be the second best player on this team immediately. This team is *already* terrible. And his cap number would not cripple us or stand in the way of other significant moves. I'd do #5 for Grant and #14, draft a stretch big prospect at #14, then look to free agency or other trades to add more assets. Heck, maybe we could still do #14 and Ivey or Duren for Ingram (I suspect NO would get better offers, though).

Tobias Harris would be the 2nd best player too, so the bar isn't high. And for as much as people don't like him, Tobias has actually been a #3 guy on quite a few teams that won more than like 25 games, which seems to be where Grant's teams average out with him as a main scoring option. Hell, Tobias was the #2 option behind Reggie Jackson on a team that made the playoffs.

Gotta compare Grant to anything we would get for straight cap space (and likely cheaper), while staying at #5.

I'd consider dropping from 5 to 7 for a Grant salary dump but that's about it, and I probably wouldn't if Risachier or Sheppard were on the board. Just take one of those guys and sign Tobias to a shorter/smaller deal than what Grant is owed.

I wouldn't be against bringing in both Grant and Tobias, assuming Tobias is on like a 2 year deal.

[7r5ur]

Duren did improve in several areas last year including defense. The advanced metrics had him as a pretty poor defender as a rookie but moving up to just slightly below average as a 2nd year player. It's not unlikely for him to take another step forward to slightly above average this year I actually think that's pretty likely. He'll still just be 21 and part of it will be us getting the right vets in next to him to help him get there. We really needed more than we got from Monty last year as far coaching him up and more than we got from Weaver as far as bringing in the right guys to surround the young core with. The last thing we should be wanting for a young guy with huge upside like Duren is to have guys like Bagley and Wiseman be the other bigs... he needs someone better out there to split time with and learn from. Jonas V makes a lot of since for us on a slightly above MLE deal and he also can step out and shoot.

This is the biggest disappointment from the whole season. Not the losing streak, not the W/L record, not falling to #5 again. We went another whole ass season and still cannot confidently judge the core players because Monty was an unmitigated disaster at coach and Weaver didn't try to at least bring in a couple of decent complimentary players.

All that and we still might run it back with Monty once again

As for Duren's defense, outside of those first 3 games, nothing showed improvement on that end. The eye test would say he probably regressed, marginally. He looked better as a scorer though. That FT% is a good sign there too. My one glimmer of hope that maybe he could stretch the floor one day.

[Spider156]

Duren did improve in several areas last year including defense. The advanced metrics had him as a pretty poor defender as a rookie but moving up to just slightly below average as a 2nd year player. It's not unlikely for him to take another step forward to slightly above average this year I actually think that's pretty likely. He'll still just be 21 and part of it will be us getting the right vets in next to him to help him get there. We really needed more than we got from Monty last year as far coaching him up and more than we got from Weaver as far as bringing in the right guys to surround the young core with. The last thing we should be wanting for a young guy with huge upside like Duren is to have guys like Bagley and Wiseman be the other bigs... he needs someone better out there to split time with and learn from. Jonas V makes a lot of since for us on a slightly above MLE deal and he also can step out and shoot.

Valanciunas and Tobias in my opinion are most realistic to sign this offseason. Tobias will probably cost 60m 2 years, Valanciunas 50m 2 years. At least we know Weaver isn’t making any decisions on free agents. What a nightmare. His first move was trading Bruce for a second round pick.. Imagine Langdon’s first move is trading sasser for a second round pick. I would lose my mind.

[theBigLip]

Duren did improve in several areas last year including defense. The advanced metrics had him as a pretty poor defender as a rookie but moving up to just slightly below average as a 2nd year player. It's not unlikely for him to take another step forward to slightly above average this year I actually think that's pretty likely. He'll still just be 21 and part of it will be us getting the right vets in next to him to help him get there. We really needed more than we got from Monty last year as far coaching him up and more than we got from Weaver as far as bringing in the right guys to surround the young core with. The last thing we should be wanting for a young guy with huge upside like Duren is to have guys like Bagley and Wiseman be the other bigs... he needs someone better out there to split time with and learn from. Jonas V makes a lot of since for us on a slightly above MLE deal and he also can step out and shoot.

Totally agree. trading him now seems very premature. Getting better shooters and a big man mentor seems like a much better path.

[7r5ur]

Duren did improve in several areas last year including defense. The advanced metrics had him as a pretty poor defender as a rookie but moving up to just slightly below average as a 2nd year player. It's not unlikely for him to take another step forward to slightly above average this year I actually think that's pretty likely. He'll still just be 21 and part of it will be us getting the right vets in next to him to help him get there. We really needed more than we got from Monty last year as far coaching him up and more than we got from Weaver as far as bringing in the right guys to surround the young core with. The last thing we should be wanting for a young guy with huge upside like Duren is to have guys like Bagley and Wiseman be the other bigs... he needs someone better out there to split time with and learn from. Jonas V makes a lot of since for us on a slightly above MLE deal and he also can step out and shoot.

Valanciunas and Tobias in my opinion are most realistic to sign this offseason. Tobias will probably cost 60m 2 years, Valanciunas 50m 2 years. At least we know Weaver isn’t making any decisions on free agents. What a nightmare. His first move was trading Bruce for a second round pick.. Imagine Langdon’s first move is trading sasser for a second round pick. I would lose my mind.

Buckle up!

We have no idea who Langdon values at all on this roster.

[bstein14]

Duren did improve in several areas last year including defense. The advanced metrics had him as a pretty poor defender as a rookie but moving up to just slightly below average as a 2nd year player. It's not unlikely for him to take another step forward to slightly above average this year I actually think that's pretty likely. He'll still just be 21 and part of it will be us getting the right vets in next to him to help him get there. We really needed more than we got from Monty last year as far coaching him up and more than we got from Weaver as far as bringing in the right guys to surround the young core with. The last thing we should be wanting for a young guy with huge upside like Duren is to have guys like Bagley and Wiseman be the other bigs... he needs someone better out there to split time with and learn from. Jonas V makes a lot of since for us on a slightly above MLE deal and he also can step out and shoot.

Valanciunas and Tobias in my opinion are most realistic to sign this offseason. Tobias will probably cost 60m 2 years, Valanciunas 50m 2 years. At least we know Weaver isn’t making any decisions on free agents. What a nightmare. His first move was trading Bruce for a second round pick.. Imagine Langdon’s first move is trading sasser for a second round pick. I would lose my mind.

Buckle up!

We have no idea who Langdon values at all on this roster.

Hopefully right now he's continuing to watch every minute from every game from last season to really have a better feel for what we have here already.

[joedumars1]

Siakam getting a max

[Crymson]

The issue with Grant is that if he's in a role that matches his salary, his team is going to be terrible. You really want him to be that #3 or 4 option and not the ball-stopping iso guy that gives half the effort he used to on D that he wants to be.

He's good when used in the proper role. Casey used him in that ball-stopping role. He's a solid #3 on a good team, and he plays strong defense.

There's also the unfortunate reality of this summer being a use-it-or-lose-it offseason where cap space is concerned. But it's probably a moot point where Grant is concerned.

He also has missed a ton of games in the last 4 years, which is another thing to consider when looking at his salary. Is he worth that number for 55 games/year?

He was largely healthy in his first season with Detroit and was held out of the lineup down the stretch for reasons of draft odds. He tore a ligament in his hand during his last season in Detroit. He was sat down the stretch of his first season with Portland because they were tanking for draft odds. His absence down the stretch of this last season may or may not have been impacted by Portland tanking down the stretch again.

Seriously. Unless people want to see Cade get doubled every time down again. Personally I was sick of that.

I know we like Ausar but as is he’s not a starter in the modern NBA. I’m legit concerned he’ll never become a half decent shooter.

No offense to anybody, but the recalcitrance about accepting that shooting is basically a mandatory skill (outside of a few superstar exceptions) for non-centers in today's NBA is weird to me. It's been a mandatory skill for about seven years now.

If Ausar can't learn to shoot, then he's going to find himself on the fringes of the league. That's inevitable. Defensive specialists no longer exist in the NBA, because the cost of fielding a guy who can't space the floor and can't finish plays from the perimeter is just too high.

It's going to hurt if he struggles again next season and Hendricks finds good three-and-D form.

[Invictus88]

No offense to anybody, but the recalcitrance about accepting that shooting is basically a mandatory skill.

Good word!

[SuperBad]

I see Jonas coming here too but idk about anything over 12-15m, I was thinking 10 was going to be enough. Tobias I guess wants to be here, I’d do it for 15m for sure 45/2yrs is as far as I could go, we need a guy who can shoot the three respectively in each position. So between the draft and free agency and trades we basically need to cover every position except pg, and we can count one front court spot between Fetechenko and Stewart. So 2,3, and 5 but I would count Jonas. I’d really rather not get Harris but if we cover that basis than I’m fine with it however it works as long as it’s not long term, 2-3 deals at most

[A_dub06]

Getting Grant in exchange for moving down two spots in this draft would be a major coup. Unlikely unless they just desperately want to dump his salary.

Brogdon is the same Brogdon whose bad health almost torpedoed the Porzingis trade last summer. He expectedly missed a huge portion of the season. I'd argue that $20 million for a guy who's likely to miss one-third of any given season is a poor value.

Grants contract is going to be negative really soon. So improving for 1-2 seasons and then having large bad salary when we would need to be trying to take another step probably isn’t the right move here. Depending on who we sign this offseason, what is the ceiling of a team consisting of max extended Cade, incoming free agent, Ausur, Grant, Stew/duren? We will still be bottoms feeders and getting more expensive at that point which is a bad combination.

2024-2025 $27.6M Age 29
2025-2026 $32M Age 30
2026-2027 $34.2 Age 31
2027-2028 $36.4 Age 32

I don’t think those cap hits will look bad if Grant maintains his current level of play.

No team will offer to absorb the contract without sending back salary besides us.

The contract will look more normal as the cap rises.

These are theoretically the most prime years of his career.

Grant already has a pretty average track record of staying healthy. That, whilst also including “if” he f maintaining current play makes it look like a bad idea, and then remembering he also wants to be either the main or second guy with the ball on offense slowing movement makes it look even worse. For someone that’s not going to move the needle that’s an awful lot of risk.

[A_dub06]

Grants contract is going to be negative really soon. So improving for 1-2 seasons and then having large bad salary when we would need to be trying to take another step probably isn’t the right move here.

Grant's production is just fine against his salary as a percentage of the cap. If I'd been the FO, I'd have outbid the Blazers last summer. It'd have been an overpay, but worthwhile. The Pistons are unlikely to find anywhere near his equal in free agency.

Depending on who we sign this offseason, what is the ceiling of a team consisting of max extended Cade, incoming free agent, Ausur, Grant, Stew/duren? We will still be bottoms feeders and getting more expensive at that point which is a bad combination.

Ausar isn't starting next season unless he can shoot. Duren might not start, depending upon whom the Pistons pick up in free agency. Stewart certainly won't be starting, and might not be on the team.

Sorry to correct, but it's Ausar rather than Ausur.

Clearly you have forgotten how badly the ball movement stopped when he was here last as he wants to be the 1st or 2nd banana on a team. What’s the end goal of trading for Grant? If the answer is to get more wins for next season, we are still going to stink so what’s the point? It’s not even an island anymore, this team does not have the talent to even wiff the play-in or the assets to trade and improve to being an 8th seed team. All hope of actually being a good team is tied to the development of Duren/Ivey/Ausur as bad as that sounds. If these guys aren’t going to reach their potential, trading them for win now players just means that our ceiling has dropped and floor raised, ie getting us back on track to being a treadmill team.

If Ausar isn’t starting then who is? We still need defence and yes his inability to shoot is an issue, but if we start Stewart that gives us more spacing which makes it work. Ausar is an average shot away from being a really good and impactful player.

It’s time to blow to blow this thing back up with Langdon running the show

[A_dub06]

He'd be the second best player on this team immediately. This team is *already* terrible. And his cap number would not cripple us or stand in the way of other significant moves. I'd do #5 for Grant and #14, draft a stretch big prospect at #14, then look to free agency or other trades to add more assets. Heck, maybe we could still do #14 and Ivey or Duren for Ingram (I suspect NO would get better offers, though).

You admit the team is terrible but want to trade our #5 in the draft for #14 for a player which is going to stop us being terrible? Unless there’s a plan in place to somehow pull a rabbit out of a hat and get a high level player in I don’t see that as good asset management. If Grant was younger yeah sure, but if he was he probably wouldn’t be available.

[JennetteMcCurdy]

You admit the team is terrible but want to trade our #5 in the draft for #14 for a player which is going to stop us being terrible? Unless there’s a plan in place to somehow pull a rabbit out of a hat and get a high level player in I don’t see that as good asset management. If Grant was younger yeah sure, but if he was he probably wouldn’t be available.

Agreed. I like Grant, but unless several picks are attached, that four year deal is a negative asset. And picks won’t be attached from a team like Portland……

Let’s cross him off our list

[Billl]

I wouldn't give up assets for grant as this point and I don't think Portland will just salary dump him. His contract is going to look a lot better though after we see what a really weak FA class signs for this summer.