Why is Shai Gilgeous-Alexander considered an “international” player?

[Black Jack]

Despite what our neighbours to the South believe, no Canada is not a U.S. state.

watch out, we might revive George Washington's plan to invade...

[NoDopeOnSundays]

He's Canadian and most of his development took place up there, he didn't go to a US school until he was 17. This is like asking why is Ben Simmons viewed as international.

[Shock Defeat]

Interesting topic, I would vote on the side of not considering Canadians international players. This is a North American League. Canada has a team called the Raptors. SGA is not international, neither is Jamal Murray, Olynyk, etc.

[Slade3]

Interesting topic, I would vote on the side of not considering Canadians international players. This is a North American League. Canada has a team called the Raptors. SGA is not international, neither is Jamal Murray, Olynyk, etc.

You do realize North America is comprised of 23 countries right?

[FarBeyondDriven]

I didn't realize he was. Canadians don't count. International players are those that were born overseas and played and developed as basketball players. If they spent their senior year in H.S. in the states and/or a year in the NCAA or G-League it doesn't change the fact that they're international.

[JDR720]

Canadians are international players because, despite the Raptors, the NBA is a USA based league. Thus, SGA is an international player.

[RoteSchroder]

Please don't bring this up to Chinese folks. The majority think they own Taiwan. You may enrage certain people. If this opinion gains traction, their government will invade it.

Not to derail but mainland China is the People's Republic of China while Taiwan is the Republic of China. Both governments claim to be the legitimate government of all of China. Taiwan's official capital is Nanjing on the mainland. Taiwan's constitution states "We are China" and it held China's seat in the UN, represented China at the Olympics, and was recognized as the real China by the US until the 1970's.

It’s like Russia and Ukraine. Russia thinks Ukraine belongs to them and other opinion doesn’t matter to them. This applies to China. They don’t give a ****. Will invade it to prove their point.

It seems closer to a North Korea/South Korea situation than a Russia/Ukraine one. Except both SK/NK are internationally recognized whereas Taiwan isn't as much. I think both SK/NK have the stance that they're the rightful rulers and both sides want eventual reunification.

Similarly, the mainland/Taiwan side were both for reunification with each deeming themselves to be the rightful rulers, until the US started infiltrating Taiwan media/politics like they do with most countries. Then the Taiwanese started leaning a bit more towards independence, although in terms of political action, the majority of Taiwanese would prefer the stance of a status quo due to mainland disagreeing with separation.

[disoblige]

Not to derail but mainland China is the People's Republic of China while Taiwan is the Republic of China. Both governments claim to be the legitimate government of all of China. Taiwan's official capital is Nanjing on the mainland. Taiwan's constitution states "We are China" and it held China's seat in the UN, represented China at the Olympics, and was recognized as the real China by the US until the 1970's.

It’s like Russia and Ukraine. Russia thinks Ukraine belongs to them and other opinion doesn’t matter to them. This applies to China. They don’t give a ****. Will invade it to prove their point.

It seems closer to a North Korea/South Korea situation than a Russia/Ukraine one. Except both SK/NK are internationally recognized whereas Taiwan isn't as much. I think both SK/NK have the stance that they're the rightful rulers and both sides want eventual reunification.

Similarly, the mainland/Taiwan side were both for reunification with each deeming themselves to be the rightful rulers, until the US started infiltrating Taiwan media/politics like they do with most countries. Then the Taiwanese started leaning a bit more towards independence, although in terms of political action, the majority of Taiwanese would prefer the stance of a status quo due to mainland disagreeing with separation.

My point was. I see land disputes as two animals fighting for territories. Subjective and the person who is stronger controls the land. Words, history and reason doesn’t mean anything to them, just their need and desire.

See china drawing a giant line few years ago and claiming most of the Southern Asia sea is theirs and violating the international convention of the sea agreement they have signed.

[RoteSchroder]

My point was. I see land disputes as two animals fighting for territories. Subjective and the person who is stronger controls the land. Words, history and reason doesn’t mean anything to them, just their need and desire.

See china drawing a line few years ago and claiming most of the Southern Asia sea is theirs and violating the international convention of the sea agreement they have sign.

They only started taking control over the South China Sea due to Obama's "Pivot to Asia".

Think tanks like the 2016 RAND report were publishing how a regional war between Taiwan/China would only slightly damage the US economically, but cause great devastation to China and they wrote about how they would cut off trade routes through choke points in the SCS halting trillions in trade.

So when they saw the US spreading loads of propaganda and ramping up military activity around their borders and in the SCS, what did u expect them to do? Sit back and watch? They even offered to back out the SCS if the US did.

I mean..they got their reasons, it's not just some stupid, simplistic "lol, I want all land and sea" ploy.

[disoblige]

My point was. I see land disputes as two animals fighting for territories. Subjective and the person who is stronger controls the land. Words, history and reason doesn’t mean anything to them, just their need and desire.

See china drawing a line few years ago and claiming most of the Southern Asia sea is theirs and violating the international convention of the sea agreement they have sign.

They only started taking control over the South China Sea due to Obama's "Pivot to Asia".

Think tanks like the 2016 RAND report were publishing how a regional war between Taiwan/China would only slightly damage the US economically, but cause great devastation to China and they wrote about how they would cut off trade routes through choke points in the SCS halting trillions in trade.

So when they saw the US spreading loads of propaganda and ramping up military activity around their borders and in the SCS, what did u expect them to do? Sit back and watch? They even offered to back out the SCS if the US did.

I mean..they got their reasons, it's not just some stupid, simplistic "lol, I want all land and sea" ploy.

You are proving my point how land disputes works. One side makes up their own justification and reality. And have convinced themselves they are right and have justification to invade and take the area. And ignores everyone else’s view and life.

You realize most countries are opposed to what China is doing and sending their air carriers and battleships there to prove a point.

[msmoore66]

Shai was born in Canada, went to high school in Tennessee and played college ball at Kentucky. How this any different than Patrick Ewing, who was born in Jamaica, went to high school in Massachusetts and played college ball at Georgetown? Why isn’t Ewing considered an international player?

Why aren’t Steve Nash and Tim Duncan considered international players? Nash was born in South Africa and raised in Canada. Duncan was born and raised in the Virgin Islands. Shouldn’t they be apart of the so-called “international takeover” that I keep hearing about?

Seems like most people don’t consider them foreign since played in the NCAA. Yet Embiid, Sabonis, and Shai all played in the NCAA and are all considered foreign players.

I’ve even seen people call Karl Towns an international player because his mom is Dominican, even though he was was born and raised in New Jersey. So should Kareem be considered an international player since his parents are from Trinidad?

We might as well call Shaq an international player since his stepdad is Jamaican.

It seems like the definition of “international” has been changed to inflate the dominance of foreign players on today’s league. Jokic, Luka, and Giannis are the only purely foreign superstars in the league right now.

Shai is considered an international player because he's Canadian. Canada isn't a part of the US, it's just that USA's hat.

Patrick Ewing isn't considered an international player because he played for team USA. Ewing and his family immigrated to the States when Ewing was 13. That was before Ewing had picked up basketball (he played cricket and association football while in Jamaica). Ewing picked up basketball in the States and has gone on to live the entirety of his life in the US after moving there.

Contrast with Shai who already played basketball in Canada growing up and specifically moved to the US as a 17-year old to improve his basketball skills. There is a pretty big difference here. Ewing immigrated to to the United States. Shai didn't.

Ewing came over as a 13-year old kid who didn't even play basketball at the time, picked up the sport in the States, learned the sport in the States and ended up representing team USA at the national level.

Shai picked up basketball in Canada, moved to the US as a 17-year old trying to improve his basketball skills and ultimately play basketball professionally and represents team Canada at the national level.

As for Steve Nash, he absolutely IS an international player. Who the heck says otherwise? Steve Nash, like Shai, is a Canadian. Heck, he was the GM of Canada's national team for 6 years. Nash was absolutely part of the international takeover of his time.

Tim Duncan was indeed born and raised in the US Virgin Islands. That is accurate. But the US Virgin Islands aren't an independent nation. There is a reason why that "US" is part of their name. The US Virgin Islands is a territory of the United States. An unincorporated and organized territory, similar to Guam. People born in the US Virgin Islands are American citizens. They have been ever since 1927. So, yeah, Duncan cannot really be an international player. He's an American citizen from the time he was born.

KAT is a Dominican-American. His mother is Dominican and his father is American. He has dual citizenship which can definitely happen as long as the laws of both countries allow it (nationality laws are complex). People have started calling him an international player because he chose to represent the Dominican Republic at the international level to honor his mother.

Is KAT an international player? Frankly, it's a weird case. He IS playing for the Dominican Republic at the national level and since the Dominican Republic is an independent country and not part of the US then, sure, one could call him international. But KAT was also born in the United States, grew up there, learned how to play basketball there and one of his parents was American. So, frankly, he's a bit of both. I'd say that KAT is whatever he decides to be and be done with it. It's just an edge case, really

The case of Domantas Sabonis, on the other hand, is a lot more crystal clear. Domantas Sabonis was born in the States to two Lithuanian parents. He was born in the States because his father, Arvydas, was playing in the NBA at the time of his birth. But when Arvydas retired from basketball, he moved with his family to Spain. Domantas was 8 years old at the time. He and his family stayed in Malaga and Domantas started playing basketball there for Unicaja Malaga, coming through the team's academy. That's where he learned to play basketball but, well, being the son of a basketball legend, he'd probably have picked up basketball wherever he was. Domantas Sabonis has dual citizenship, much like KAT has, but unlike KAT, he isn't actually a US basketball product.

After spending 10 years in Spain (from 8 to 18) he moved back to the States to play collegiate basketball for Gonzaga. That is pretty similar to what Shai did, moving to the US to pursue a basketball career. Moving to the US to pursue a basketball career does not necessarily make one an American.

But Domantas DID have American citizenship. He had American citizenship because he was born in the States and the US is a jus soli country. Unrestricted jus soli (the type that the US and most of the Americas have) means that any person who is born in the borders of said country is automatically a citizen of said country. He also has Lithuanian citizenship because he was born to two ethnic Lithuanian parents (Lithuania is a leges sanguinis country which means that people born outside Lithuania to ethnic Lithuanian parents have the right to Lithuanian citizenship). It's important to note here that Sabonis could also apply for Spanish citizenship if he so wanted because he did reside in Spain for 10 years but it doesn't look like he's interested. Again, nationality laws are complex

Odd thread. This seems to cover it though.

[RoteSchroder]

You are proving my point how land disputes works. One side makes up their own justification and reality. And have convinced themselves they are right and have justification to invade and take the area. You realize every most countries are opposed to what China is doing.

Well nearly every NATO country and ally tends to support genocide, it doesn't make them right.

The "justification and reality" wasn't made up by Russia/China, it was made up by the US. They didn't magically concoct some story.

The question is whether their response to US-led aggression was correct. E.g. Russia invading Ukraine was likely the wrong strategic response.

In terms of the current Chinese government, it seems thus far they've diplomatically settled 16 out of 19 territorial disputes and most of these disputes were started by other countries and/or were from the previous government. If you look at the Qing dynasty maps --> ROC maps --> current map, China's territory is shrinking. So it doesn't seem like to me their making crap up with the goal of gaining additional land. There's a reason other countries look to them to broker peace talks, they're good at diplomacy, but you need both sides to cooperate for that.

[disoblige]

You are proving my point how land disputes works. One side makes up their own justification and reality. And have convinced themselves they are right and have justification to invade and take the area. You realize every most countries are opposed to what China is doing.

Well nearly every NATO country and ally tends to support genocide, it doesn't make them right.

The "justification and reality" wasn't made up by Russia/China, it was made up by the US. They didn't magically concoct some story.

The question is whether their response to US-led aggression was correct. E.g. Russia invading Ukraine was likely the wrong strategic response.

In terms of the current Chinese government, it seems thus far they've diplomatically settled 16 out of 19 territorial disputes and most of these disputes were started by other countries and/or were from the previous government. If you look at the Qing dynasty maps --> ROC maps --> current map, China's territory is shrinking. So it doesn't seem like to me their making crap up with the goal of gaining additional land. There's a reason other countries look to them to broker peace talks, they're good at diplomacy, but you need both sides to cooperate for that.

You’re drinking too much Chinese koolaid. This off topic so no more.

[ChuckChilly]

What about Mexican players? They couldn't be referred to as international either then.

[Reeko]

Shai played basketball in America (outside of his time in the NBA) for a grand total of 3 years, his junior and senior years of high school and his lone college season at Kentucky. He played for the World Select Team at the Nike Hoop Summit, he plays for Team Canada. This is akin to calling LaMelo Ball an international player because he played professionally in Lithuania in what should have been his junior year of high school, and then played in Australia in what should have been his freshman season of college.

Luka played in Spain from the ages of 13 to 18, so isn't he really more of a product of Spain than Slovenia and therefore actually a Spanish player? The answer is no, he is a Slovenian player who developed his skills in Spain, the same way LaMelo is an American that developed his skills in Lithuania and Australia, and the same way that Shai is a Canadian who developed his skills in the USA.

[RoteSchroder]

You’re drinking too much Chinese koolaid. This off topic so no more.

I never said I agreed with what their doing.

Generally speaking, the neoliberal strategy is to keep other countries in conflict, divide and conquer, and control them. In other words, offense is the best defense. You prevent others from gaining too much power or prevent countries in the same region from banding together. Sometimes you commit a little evil, sure, but it's for the greater good.

The countries on the receiving end tend to play more defense. In some cases, they play a little offense like with Russia v Ukraine. China engages in mostly financial corruption, but they don't have much ambition in terms of expansion or military action.

The real question is why you're so set on painting just one narrative when numerous countries in the world have done much worse.

[r0drig0lac]

Gilgeous-Alexander was born in Toronto, Ontario [/thread

[Mirotic12]

In my experience, people will just try anything to make a player belong to the country that better fits their agenda.



It's 2024 and there's still loads of people that will argue that Manu is an "Euro", when he was born, raised and played basketball in Argentina until he was 18 or 19, played for the national team since that age and still lives in Bahia Blanca when he is not in San Antonio. He is widely regarded as one of the best Argentinian athletes of all time. But they still say "oooh...but he holds an italian citizenship" so he's an Euro. OK.

Although, to be fair, those people probably have a hard time finding any country in a map outside North America.

To be fair, sometimes people in Europe are referring to EuroLeague players, when they say "Euro player", or "Euro".

Interesting topic, I would vote on the side of not considering Canadians international players. This is a North American League. Canada has a team called the Raptors. SGA is not international, neither is Jamal Murray, Olynyk, etc.

You do realize North America is comprised of 23 countries right?

The NBA isn't a North American league. It's a Northern American league.

[Calvin Klein]

In my experience, people will just try anything to make a player belong to the country that better fits their agenda.



It's 2024 and there's still loads of people that will argue that Manu is an "Euro", when he was born, raised and played basketball in Argentina until he was 18 or 19, played for the national team since that age and still lives in Bahia Blanca when he is not in San Antonio. He is widely regarded as one of the best Argentinian athletes of all time. But they still say "oooh...but he holds an italian citizenship" so he's an Euro. OK.

Although, to be fair, those people probably have a hard time finding any country in a map outside North America.

To be fair, sometimes people in Europe are referring to EuroLeague players, when they say "Euro player", or "Euro".

Yeah, but I'm not talking about people in Europe though

[Thaddy]

Despite what our neighbours to the South believe, no Canada is not a U.S. state.

watch out, we might revive George Washington's plan to invade...

Most Canadians right now probably wouldn't mind.