Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 2 : We Running it Back.. (WITH MITCHELL!)

[RexBoyWonder]

Give Jimmy the extension if Miami can somehow make the swing for an offensive upgrade this summer. If not, I don't think the cap hell and team building limitations for a player at the tail end of his career makes sense. When superstars decline, they don't just lose the magic that makes them, they just are able to summon it less and less frequently. I think we saw that happening last season.

If Miami can't swing a big trade for an offensive upgrade, then it's a sh**ty situation with Jimmy. Either let him play out the last season of his contract and choose whether he opts in or not (doubtful he would) or trade him.

I don't like the breakup, but it becomes the rational play.

This is it.

It doesn't make sense to extend Jimmy as the #1 offensive option. It's won't net good enough results for the team, and it's not good for Jimmy either because that's not an ideal role for him at this stage.

If we can add a real star that allows Jimmy to be the supporting player and the second option - Then we 100% need to keep Jimmy in that role - it will be good enough for us to contend and it's good for Jimmy to take a step back but still play on a good team in a city and organization he likes.

We're at the crossroads - we have to chose a direction :

Either go all in, add a star who can be the first offensive option, then Jimmy and Bam become the #2 and #3...

Or

Face the music, realize Jimmy can't do it alone anymore, trade him for the best package available while we can still get value for him, and let him play for another team in a situation that makes more sense for him at his age.

[contract]

How are we supposed to take the regular season more seriously when Jimmy misses 25%-30% of the season? That is why 4 out of the past 5 years we've been seeded 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th.

That's a pass from me, nobody I mean nobody should get extra Millions at the tale end of their career for things they did earlier, nobody deserves that. You get paid what your worth or what the market can pay when your at your peak and doing those things that deserve that money, pass that, keep it moving or go somewhere else.

Nobody? Sometimes players deserve more than the max, for instance Edwards now, Wemby on the rookie level contract and a guy like LeBron nearly his whole career.

The way you take care of top tier talent can give you an advantage when trying to acquire top tier talent in FA or player's trying to force their way to your team. Miami screwed up with D.Wade and have been overpaying midlevel players to try to fix that issue.

What's odd to me is the outcry of max guys while having no real issue overpaying midlevel players who don't have a history of good/great play. Even if you think it's going to be a bad value, I'm pretty sure you can find a worst value in multiple contracts on the same roster that add up to nearly the same money.

And you want to add another bad contract? Saying we have other bad contracts isn't the winning argument that you seem to think it is.

The Miami Heat doesn't exist to be a living tribute to Jimmy Butler's early 30s.

And Dwyane Wade isn't a reason to extend Jimmy no matter how many times it's brought up. Maybe Wade can convince the Utah Jazz to pay Jimmy the max when he turns 37.

[greg4012]

Sript has been leaked

-Butler to 76ers for picks
-Mitchell to stay with Cavs with that supermax and will ask for a trade 2 years later
-LeBron to stay with LA and drafts Bronny
-Garland traded to Lakers for peanuts
-Klay to Magic
-Hayward to Heat

Is Mitchell eligible for a supermax? I thought he wasn't.

You're right Greg, only a max. Thought he was All-NBA this year and his missed it by missing games played required.

Isn't there also something about being drafted by the team offering the contract for supermax eligibility?

[RexBoyWonder]

That's a pass from me, nobody I mean nobody should get extra Millions at the tale end of their career for things they did earlier, nobody deserves that. You get paid what your worth or what the market can pay when your at your peak and doing those things that deserve that money, pass that, keep it moving or go somewhere else.

Nobody? Sometimes players deserve more than the max, for instance Edwards now, Wemby on the rookie level contract and a guy like LeBron nearly his whole career.

The way you take care of top tier talent can give you an advantage when trying to acquire top tier talent in FA or player's trying to force their way to your team. Miami screwed up with D.Wade and have been overpaying midlevel players to try to fix that issue.

What's odd to me is the outcry of max guys while having no real issue overpaying midlevel players who don't have a history of good/great play. Even if you think it's going to be a bad value, I'm pretty sure you can find a worst value in multiple contracts on the same roster that add up to nearly the same money.

And you want to add another bad contract? Saying we have other bad contracts isn't the winning argument that you seem to think it is.

The Miami Heat doesn't exist to be a living tribute to Jimmy Butler's early 30s.

And Dwyane Wade isn't a reason to extend Jimmy no matter how many times it's brought up. Maybe Wade can convince the Utah Jazz to pay Jimmy the max when he turns 37.

I get what you're saying but I wouldn't totally dismiss the "off the court" impacts.

I think keeping Jimmy, putting the numbers a side for a moment - is a positive thing in itself.

Jimmy hit a cord with the hearts of the fan base - most of us really appreciate, enjoy, and even **** love the guy for who he is, what he did here, and how he did it.

This have BIG value.

Seeing Jimmy finish his career here will be a great thing for the Heat org and for the fans, and even for Jimmy himself.

At the end of day, this is Sports. It's not science, there are no excel sheets to measure the memories Jimmy and this organization created together. We shouldn't overlook that. We need to try and make an effort to keep Jimmy as long as wants to be here, and as long as it makes at least partial sense from a cold calculated team building aspect.

[SA37]

48 million dollar trade exception and 3 1st. Send him to Philly.

I'd be shocked if Riley traded Butler for a package like this.

Choices to trade Jimmy are going to be vastly limited. If not trading him then you better extend him.

I just don't see Miami trading Butler without getting 1-2 players in return. Riley isn't big on the Draft to begin with, and I can't remember him ever making a trade that garnered Miami lots of picks. Riley wants to field a competitive team no matter what.

I think these are all potential deals that would be considered with Butler:

- to the Pelicans for a package centered around Ingram

- a 3-way deal with Houston getting Butler, Miami getting Miles Bridges, and Charlotte getting A Thompson or C Whitmore + some combo of Adams/Brooks/Jeff Green depending on cap needs

- to the Knicks for Randle

- to Denver for A Gordon

- to Golden State for Wiggins and Payton

- to Sacramento for Barnes and Huerter (this might require a 3rd team)

- if Butler to OKC for Dort and picks works, I think that would be an interesting trade, but again, I am not sure Riley moves Butler for mainly picks.

[marson]

Is Mitchell eligible for a supermax? I thought he wasn't.

You're right Greg, only a max. Thought he was All-NBA this year and his missed it by missing games played required.

Isn't there also something about being drafted by the team offering the contract for supermax eligibility?

Not really, only has to pick up his player option and then go all nba again season to be eligible

[AirP.]

That's a pass from me, nobody I mean nobody should get extra Millions at the tale end of their career for things they did earlier, nobody deserves that. You get paid what your worth or what the market can pay when your at your peak and doing those things that deserve that money, pass that, keep it moving or go somewhere else.

Nobody? Sometimes players deserve more than the max, for instance Edwards now, Wemby on the rookie level contract and a guy like LeBron nearly his whole career.

The way you take care of top tier talent can give you an advantage when trying to acquire top tier talent in FA or player's trying to force their way to your team. Miami screwed up with D.Wade and have been overpaying midlevel players to try to fix that issue.

What's odd to me is the outcry of max guys while having no real issue overpaying midlevel players who don't have a history of good/great play. Even if you think it's going to be a bad value, I'm pretty sure you can find a worst value in multiple contracts on the same roster that add up to nearly the same money.

And you want to add another bad contract? Saying we have other bad contracts isn't the winning argument that you seem to think it is.

Yeah it is, Bulter's having his most efficient seasons at 33 and 34 meaning he still can play at a high level in the future.

The Miami Heat doesn't exist to be a living tribute to Jimmy Butler's early 30s.

It's not a given that Butler drops off greatly in the next few seasons. If he didn't work on his body as much as he did or his numbers were dropping off I would be on the same side as you, but he's willing to put in the work and having the most efficient seasons of his career while only being one year removed from a 56 point playoff game that WASN'T built off of just shooting midrange and 3s, he was going to the hoop, taking contact, dunking and trash talking possibly the best defensive guard in the game. For some reason I think all these combined makes me believe he'll age nicely into his late 30s. I do get the argument of him having more injuries and if you had another true #1 maybe you do move on but you don't.

And Dwyane Wade isn't a reason to extend Jimmy no matter how many times it's brought up. Maybe Wade can convince the Utah Jazz to pay Jimmy the max when he turns 37.

I'm sure in 2-3 years I'll be able to look at a combination of players on Miami's roster who make up about contract wise what Butler does and be able to easily say, I'll take Butler and his contract over those guys, especially in the playoffs.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Sript has been leaked

-Butler to 76ers for picks
-Mitchell to stay with Cavs with that supermax and will ask for a trade 2 years later
-LeBron to stay with LA and drafts Bronny
-Garland traded to Lakers for peanuts
-Klay to Magic
-Hayward to Heat

Is Mitchell eligible for a supermax? I thought he wasn't.

You're right Greg, only a max. Thought he was All-NBA this year and his missed it by missing games played required.

Pretty sure it wouldn’t have mattered, only way he can sign a supermax is if he was still with Utah

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I prefer the route of Pat doing his fuxking job for once and finally getting Bam and Jimmy the help they need, especially if they’re going to continue to be surrounded by bums, get them another star (Mitchell)

IF Jimmy is traded, and I don’t think he will be, a Mitchell or something better be on the way to Miami in a 3 team deal

[AirP.]

OKC isn't trading for Butler. If they're trading a bunch for a star, why wouldn't they throw a few more firsts for a much younger star that's probably only on their 2nd contract?

[marson]

Is Mitchell eligible for a supermax? I thought he wasn't.

You're right Greg, only a max. Thought he was All-NBA this year and his missed it by missing games played required.

Pretty sure it wouldn’t have mattered, only way he can sign a supermax is if he was still with Utah

The NBA supermax eligibility is as follows: First, only a player that has at least seven years of experience in the NBA by the end of his current contract is eligible to sign a supermax deal. This can be offered by the team that drafted him or acquired his rookie contract via trade.

Second, a player must meet at least one of the supermax performance criteria:

Be named to an All-NBA team in the most recent season or two in the last three seasons.
Be named Defensive Player of the Year in the most recent season or two in the last three seasons.
Be named MVP in any of the three previous seasons.

I see so this won't count since he was not on his rookie contract when got traded? Interesting...

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

[3ammy3uck3ts]

You're right Greg, only a max. Thought he was All-NBA this year and his missed it by missing games played required.

Pretty sure it wouldn’t have mattered, only way he can sign a supermax is if he was still with Utah

The NBA supermax eligibility is as follows: First, only a player that has at least seven years of experience in the NBA by the end of his current contract is eligible to sign a supermax deal. This can be offered by the team that drafted him or acquired his rookie contract via trade.

Second, a player must meet at least one of the supermax performance criteria:

Be named to an All-NBA team in the most recent season or two in the last three seasons.
Be named Defensive Player of the Year in the most recent season or two in the last three seasons.
Be named MVP in any of the three previous seasons.

I see so this won't count since he was not on his rookie contract when got traded? Interesting...

I knew I was missing some reasoning in why he can’t sign it, yea non rookie contract when traded voids it.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Trade for Mitchell, sign some vets and extend Jimmy Bam and Mitchell and let’s call it a summer

[AirP.]

Anyone interested in a depressed asset like James Bouknight for your 14th or 15th roster spot? Fresh off a DWI and released by the Hornets, but this is how you can try to get great value for a very small contract.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

[greg4012]

Still dwelling on Mitchell for those who can stomach it. This is the landscape I'm seeing:

- The only real monetary advantage for staying with Cleveland is CLE being able to offer a 5th year
- CLE reportedly seeking to offer a 4-year max (no monetary advantage vs any other team offering the same)
- Knicks still loom, but all the recent rumblings seem to be moving away from the Mitchell sweepstakes. We've all harped on the bad fit with the Knicks and most of the speculation I've read has the knicks sights set elsewhere for wing and frontcourt help
- Nets owner Joe Tsai has basically come out and said the Nets will be taking a longer term approach and going for a rebuild.

There are definitely other suitors to be concerned about competing with, but gotta wonder if they are teams that Mitchell will give any indication he will want to re-sign with.

[Beenie]

If Mia elects to trade Jimmy, they would be wise to blow it up and trade Bam too.

The team not only would be a perpetual lottery team without Jimmy, their brand of basketball becomes even more of an unholy mess to watch.

Trade Bam to OKC and they might be able to fetch Jalen Williams in return along with a pick package.

Why? Bam is young, you can use your trade chips to keep building up and many players around the league would be willing to tag team with Bam. You never go full (Please Use More Appropriate Word) as they say, in that movie line.

Play it out and what's the hopeful hypothetical that's worth indulging into?

In the meantime, the team is going to stink record wise and the on-court product is gonna be a disaster to watch.

[greg4012]

Anyone interested in a depressed asset like James Bouknight for your 14th or 15th roster spot? Fresh off a DWI and released by the Hornets, but this is how you can try to get great value for a very small contract.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

I'm all for Miami taking an attempt at a reclamation project every season. RJ Hampton was a dud, but worth the extended look.

[wade44]

If Mia elects to trade Jimmy, they would be wise to blow it up and trade Bam too.

The team not only would be a perpetual lottery team without Jimmy, their brand of basketball becomes even more of an unholy mess to watch.

Trade Bam to OKC and they might be able to fetch Jalen Williams in return along with a pick package.

Absolutely not. Bam is a Heat homegrown retirement fixture that’s going to lead the new young core. Let’s not act like we don’t have good young pieces to build around. Bam, Jovic, JJJ, Herro, and Rozier along with two first round picks this year coming off the bench until a star comes free will be a fun team for us to root for.

The poetic "homegrown" sentiment is rosey in all but the reality is that franchises that typically build their rosters around '3rd options' usually dont go very far.

Let’s say OKC would be interested in Bam and Jimmy. Those treasure chest of picks there for the taking for Miami plus getting our own pick back

Would restore confidence in what’s largely been a lost Heat front office for the better part of the last decade

[AirP.]

Absolutely not. Bam is a Heat homegrown retirement fixture that’s going to lead the new young core. Let’s not act like we don’t have good young pieces to build around. Bam, Jovic, JJJ, Herro, and Rozier along with two first round picks this year coming off the bench until a star comes free will be a fun team for us to root for.

The poetic "homegrown" sentiment is rosey in all but the reality is that franchises that typically build their rosters around '3rd options' usually dont go very far.

Let’s say OKC would be interested in Bam and Jimmy. Those treasure chest of picks there for the taking for Miami plus getting our own pick back

Would restore confidence in what’s largely been a lost Heat front office for the better part of the last decade

Maybe drafting Maxie, Bane or Quickly over Precious would have helped the confidence vs putting all their faith in Herro so no need to draft a talented guard? If someone is just much more talented at your pick, go for the talent vs the fit.