Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 2 : We Running it Back.. (WITH MITCHELL!)

[carnageta]

I honestly think this whole Butler thing is a smokescreen. Come 12:01 on July 7th, the news will drop that Miami has extended Butler on the 2 years lol.


There will probably be clauses in the extension to that Butler must participate in X games to get the full amount, etc.

[contract]

Everyone who wants to extend Jimmy ... make a list of all the guys in NBA history that were < 6'9 that weren't washed at 37.

I'll wait.

[AirP.]

I'd rather have neither. See, it's not hard to make good decisions or to avoid obviously bad ones.

Each year you have to spend 90% of the cap and just because you have space doesn't mean good players will come. So who are you spending that money on that is better than either of those? Maybe Miami will find its next D.Waiters or J.Johnson? You'd also be flushing a few years of Bam's prime down the toilet.

I don't mind seeing Miami go back to what they were building before Butler forced his way to Miami which greatly helped the franchise.

Not a 37 year old. I will spend the money on someone whose best days aren't far in his rear-view mirror.

The alternative to an obviously bad decision isn't only other bad decisions. For example, you could make good ones instead.

You mean like the ones they were doing before Butler forced his way to Miami, handing multi-year contracts out to guys like Waiters, Johnson or maxing out Whiteside? That to me seems a way worse decision since you have to spend the money every year and Miami loves to overpay midlevel talent.

At least with Butler there's a chance he can be a difference maker, even in his mid 30s. If Miami can find a new #1, move Butler, but don't do it before and risk half a decade or more of first round outs with little to no hope of doing better.

[DBurks2818]

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[MettaWorldPanda]

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ESPN's next superstar on air personality. I love this for UD.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

We do have enough for a Mitchell trade. However, the question becomes are we willing to part ways with the kids (and all of our depth) when there's a possibility we could grab Mitchell next offseason in free agency?


As much as Pat wants a 'whale' - keep in mind how he iterated the importance of depth in that press conference a month ago. If Riley feels he can keep most of his assets and sign Mitchell next season in free agency, I think he'd go that approach as opposed to trading Herro, Jacquez, Jovic, etc. etc. for him this summer.





Or he might just eff it and get him here this year and worry about the complimentary pieces afterwards

Yea he needs to do the latter

[contract]

Each year you have to spend 90% of the cap and just because you have space doesn't mean good players will come. So who are you spending that money on that is better than either of those? Maybe Miami will find its next D.Waiters or J.Johnson? You'd also be flushing a few years of Bam's prime down the toilet.

I don't mind seeing Miami go back to what they were building before Butler forced his way to Miami which greatly helped the franchise.

Not a 37 year old. I will spend the money on someone whose best days aren't far in his rear-view mirror.

The alternative to an obviously bad decision isn't only other bad decisions. For example, you could make good ones instead.

You mean like the ones they were doing before Butler forced his way to Miami, handing multi-year contracts out to guys like Waiters, Johnson or maxing out Whiteside? That to me seems a way worse decision since you have to spend the money every year and Miami loves to overpay midlevel talent.

At least with Butler there's a chance he can be a difference maker, even in his mid 30s. If Miami can find a new #1, move Butler, but don't do it before and risk half a decade or more of first round outs with little to no hope of doing better.

No, not like signing Waiters and the Johnsons and Whiteside. Good ones.

And no there isn't a chance that Butler can be a difference maker at 37. None. Zero chance. Sub-zero.

[AirP.]

Not a 37 year old. I will spend the money on someone whose best days aren't far in his rear-view mirror.

The alternative to an obviously bad decision isn't only other bad decisions. For example, you could make good ones instead.

You mean like the ones they were doing before Butler forced his way to Miami, handing multi-year contracts out to guys like Waiters, Johnson or maxing out Whiteside? That to me seems a way worse decision since you have to spend the money every year and Miami loves to overpay midlevel talent.

At least with Butler there's a chance he can be a difference maker, even in his mid 30s. If Miami can find a new #1, move Butler, but don't do it before and risk half a decade or more of first round outs with little to no hope of doing better.

No, not like signing Waiters and the Johnsons and Whiteside. Good ones.

And no there isn't a chance that Butler can be a difference maker at 37. None. Zero chance. Sub-zero.

I say Waiters and Johnson because it's what Miami did before, so why wouldn't they again? They gave Herro 30 mil per season, they gave Robinson 90 mil over 5, it's not out of the realm of possibility that the trend they've created continues.

Ok, that's your opinion that there's no chance, obviously there's a chance with him in 3 years having his 2 most efficient/best ORTG seasons his last 2 years.

What you and others need to realize is why people fall off in their early or mid 30s for basketball. Smaller guards who relied on quickness drop off early in their 30s unless they can shoot 3s now since you lose some quickness in your 30s, strength, BBIQ, skills don't which is what most (not all) Butler's game is built on, the other reason players fall off in their 30s is they no longer are willing to put in the work that is needed to play later into their 30s because they have families or don't want to deal with the aches and pains anymore. Butler learned a long time ago about putting in the work while also having his own time, so I have little doubts he's going to be a very good player for another 3 years if he wants to do another 3 years. I do acknowledge that the injuries could possibly pile up which could slow him up greatly but unless you have a better route for a #1 guy, that's what you have to live with.

I don't think people understand how hard it is to get a good enough #1 who could get you deep into the playoffs.

[EMC5466]

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[greg4012]

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Give us a star and we'll give you the least valuable #3 pick of all time! How does a Super Mario Chalmers sound?

[RexBoyWonder]

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Give us a star and we'll give you the least valuable #3 pick of all time! How does a Super Mario Chalmers sound?

This is not a good draft to be picking high in the lottery, none of of the top prospects have a great chance to become stars.

This is a good draft to be picking twice in the mid-first, and add 2 quality cheap starters, and if we're lucky, one of them can maybe become an all-star type in 5 years.

I think We'll try to trade for Mitchell (offering the farm) way before we consider trading Jimmmy.

[Beenie]

Best wins this season came without Jimmy

I don't know how to tell tbh

Not many big/ signature wins to speak of.

They beat Philly a couple times without Jimmy but Philly didnt have Embiid either of those games. They also lost to Philly 3 other times, once without Jimmy and the playin game that Jimmy got hurt in.

The Milwaukee win was solid without Jimmy.

The Knicks win with Jimmy was up there, though.

As was the end of year OT win against the Hawks with Jimmy.

Whole season was a give and take with too few signature big wins.

Pretty evident though that without Jimmy, things would have been a whole lot worse.

I’m not advocating for moving Jimmy or anything but his impact on the regular season just wasn’t anything to speak of. You can allocate his $50M elsewhere and pretty easily find ourselves back into the play in tourney worst case. There weren’t any games where he was just willing us to wins. As annoying as he is in the regular season it’s fine I guess as long as he shows up when it matters, he didn’t this season and in return it was a wasted season mostly on his shoulders

I'm not convinced that replacing Jimmy with discardable role players wouldnt result in a steep drop off.

The team would struggle to get 30 wins.

[DayofMourning]

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Maxey, 2024 1st, 2026 1st. Get it done Pat!

[DayofMourning]

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Give us a star and we'll give you the least valuable #3 pick of all time! How does a Super Mario Chalmers sound?

Doesnt Houston have some decent picks in the future?

[MettaWorldPanda]

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Give us a star and we'll give you the least valuable #3 pick of all time! How does a Super Mario Chalmers sound?

Nikola Topic to team with Jovic could be interesting no?

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I don't know how to tell tbh

Not many big/ signature wins to speak of.

They beat Philly a couple times without Jimmy but Philly didnt have Embiid either of those games. They also lost to Philly 3 other times, once without Jimmy and the playin game that Jimmy got hurt in.

The Milwaukee win was solid without Jimmy.

The Knicks win with Jimmy was up there, though.

As was the end of year OT win against the Hawks with Jimmy.

Whole season was a give and take with too few signature big wins.

Pretty evident though that without Jimmy, things would have been a whole lot worse.

I’m not advocating for moving Jimmy or anything but his impact on the regular season just wasn’t anything to speak of. You can allocate his $50M elsewhere and pretty easily find ourselves back into the play in tourney worst case. There weren’t any games where he was just willing us to wins. As annoying as he is in the regular season it’s fine I guess as long as he shows up when it matters, he didn’t this season and in return it was a wasted season mostly on his shoulders

I'm not convinced that replacing Jimmy with discardable role players wouldnt result in a steep drop off.

The team would struggle to get 30 wins.

Since he’s been in a Heat jersey he’s missed 100 games, we’re 50-50 in those games. 41 win rate.

The last 3 seasons he’s missed 65 games, we’re 37-28 in those games. 47 win rate.

If you allocated his $50M to another all star and a role player or 3-4 very solid role players they’d worst case be in the same regular season situation we’re currently in. Nothing points to struggling to win 30 games.

[DayofMourning]

Oh yeah, Houston has the Nets first rounders. Now thatd be some kinda return for Jimmay.

[MettaWorldPanda]

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Give us a star and we'll give you the least valuable #3 pick of all time! How does a Super Mario Chalmers sound?

Doesnt Houston have some decent picks in the future?

They sure do. This would be a great trade partner.