2024 Off-Season

[Wizop]

There's a nice article on RealGM today praising our "second draft" strategy, I don't think we're going to reverse that plan and give other teams a shot at our rookie contract guys,

[Wizop]

Watch on YouTube

[Pacers Forever]

The Pacers front office killed it with the drafting of Andrew Nembhard and Ben Sheppard among others.

I feel the Pacers know Benedict will be special and they don’t want to trade him and want to see him breakout as did Nembhard.

Similarly I believe the Pacers knew Walkers potential and drafted him #8 because of his defensive abilities to guard multiple positions. I believe that they knew the limitations of him playing at Houston and that he wouldn’t be instantly NBA ready like players drafted above him. Whether they thought he could need more time to develop is unclear to us, but what’s clear is they believe that he can be special in time and I think that they have time to bring him along without rushing him into bad habits.

Each season they see the rookies in summer league. So they sent Sheppard, Tshiebwe, Wong, Brown, and Walker to the Mad Ants.

Observing their play and progress there Sheppard earned a promotion eventually never going back due to his defense, shot, and the trade of Buddy and Brown. I believe Walkers later promotion was two fold in he was positionally blocked and needed the development time afforded by becoming the man with Mad Ants.

This season I believe the Pacers saw great potential and fruits produced by Nembhard, Mathurin, Jackson, Sheppard, Walker, Tshiebwe, and Brown.

Gearing up for next season EVERY youngster has to make big strides in their development to earn playing time with so much competition in this organization.

With Quenton Jackson, Isiah Wong, Mojave King, Oscar Tshiebwe plus possibly another draft pick or two thrown into the mix they’ll be pursuing their dreams of making the big club.

With as much great play this season from the top 11 players on the roster we can speculate only 4 roster positions are potentially up for grabs in James Johnson, Doug McDermott, Jalen Smith, and Kendall Brown potentially not returning or being replaced. Also possible is that les than 4 spots are in question. Of course three 2-way contracts will be in play also.

Chad B. will be on the lookout for an affordable player who fits the criteria and betters the team but it seems very doubtful that the Pacers trade any of our core or youth. However if an acquisition is made it could result in roster position shuffling and more competition for quite a few.

It should be a less eventful off season but more anticipation of how much the roster matures by training camp rather than what big moves will have been made.

[JeffFosters]

[
That leaves Walker outside a 10 man rotation.

Besides potential, theres nothing Walker has really done to be penciled in right now. When last season started, coach Carlisle mentioned how he had a heart to heart talk with TJM about him being 3rd string. Players can earn more time or lose it based on performance. I'm intrigued about Walker but in garbage time vs the Knicks Brown came on before Walker.

I agree with you. He's not done anything wrong. At this point - at least for me, he is far, far away from a bust. He's just got to get to the point where his total game earns playing time. Until then, it's going to be spot minutes. TBF,... Walker was around the same age (slightly younger?) when he was drafted as Myles & I-Jax. Myles played for Rick Barnes at Texas, a very good system for developing NBA players. He averaged 10 pnts, 5.5 rbs, in just over 20 minutes a game,... as a starter. We didn't really have anyone else in 15-16. Our frontcourt rotation was Myles, Shayne Whittington, Raheem Christmas, Lavoy Allen, Ian Mahinmi, & Jordan Hill. I-Jax was 8 pts, 4 rbs, in 15 minutes. He came from KY under coach Cal,... again, another NBA friendly system.

With both Myles and I-Jax, we didn't really begin to see consistent, every game, positive contribution (regardless of playing time) until they got to their 3rd years. (Really, the end of this last year - his third year for I-Jax). I don't really expect Walker to develop faster than Myles or I-Jax?

The small part of me that was bitterly disappointed that the pacers didn’t beat the Celtics was just vaporized by remembering the Christmas/Allen/Hill seasons. This whole run has been a dream tbh, and having roster “issues” like Walker vs Toppin or how we fit Math, Shep and Nembhard into a rotation really is a privilege. The more I think about it the more I think they should just run it back and maybe add a bigger body backup center (Drummond, Adams, Valanciunas etc).

[JMaster5K]

Besides potential, theres nothing Walker has really done to be penciled in right now. When last season started, coach Carlisle mentioned how he had a heart to heart talk with TJM about him being 3rd string. Players can earn more time or lose it based on performance. I'm intrigued about Walker but in garbage time vs the Knicks Brown came on before Walker.

I agree with you. He's not done anything wrong. At this point - at least for me, he is far, far away from a bust. He's just got to get to the point where his total game earns playing time. Until then, it's going to be spot minutes. TBF,... Walker was around the same age (slightly younger?) when he was drafted as Myles & I-Jax. Myles played for Rick Barnes at Texas, a very good system for developing NBA players. He averaged 10 pnts, 5.5 rbs, in just over 20 minutes a game,... as a starter. We didn't really have anyone else in 15-16. Our frontcourt rotation was Myles, Shayne Whittington, Raheem Christmas, Lavoy Allen, Ian Mahinmi, & Jordan Hill. I-Jax was 8 pts, 4 rbs, in 15 minutes. He came from KY under coach Cal,... again, another NBA friendly system.

With both Myles and I-Jax, we didn't really begin to see consistent, every game, positive contribution (regardless of playing time) until they got to their 3rd years. (Really, the end of this last year - his third year for I-Jax). I don't really expect Walker to develop faster than Myles or I-Jax?

The small part of me that was bitterly disappointed that the pacers didn’t beat the Celtics was just vaporized by remembering the Christmas/Allen/Hill seasons. This whole run has been a dream tbh, and having roster “issues” like Walker vs Toppin or how we fit Math, Shep and Nembhard into a rotation really is a privilege. The more I think about it the more I think they should just run it back and maybe add a bigger body backup center (Drummond, Adams, Valanciunas etc).

I agree. That 15-16 team won 45 games,... but the roster was rough. Being a fan from 82-83 to 85-86, when we went 20, 26, 22, 26 wins,... those rosters were rough,.. and the team wouldn't play together, as a team. This year has been a blessing. As you said (big thumbs up!) our 'issues' are the kind most teams would want. I won't be disappointed if we just run it back (with small tweaks like you mentioned). Even if we don't get to the ECF next year. This team is fun, talented, and plays together. It also, still has a ton of room to improve without having to make major personnel changes. We are in a good place. As you rightly point out,... If I look around the league, there are a bunch of teams with successful records and unsuccessful records that are not in nearly as positive a position as the Pacers.

[Pacers Forever]

Besides potential, theres nothing Walker has really done to be penciled in right now. When last season started, coach Carlisle mentioned how he had a heart to heart talk with TJM about him being 3rd string. Players can earn more time or lose it based on performance. I'm intrigued about Walker but in garbage time vs the Knicks Brown came on before Walker.

I agree with you. He's not done anything wrong. At this point - at least for me, he is far, far away from a bust. He's just got to get to the point where his total game earns playing time. Until then, it's going to be spot minutes. TBF,... Walker was around the same age (slightly younger?) when he was drafted as Myles & I-Jax. Myles played for Rick Barnes at Texas, a very good system for developing NBA players. He averaged 10 pnts, 5.5 rbs, in just over 20 minutes a game,... as a starter. We didn't really have anyone else in 15-16. Our frontcourt rotation was Myles, Shayne Whittington, Raheem Christmas, Lavoy Allen, Ian Mahinmi, & Jordan Hill. I-Jax was 8 pts, 4 rbs, in 15 minutes. He came from KY under coach Cal,... again, another NBA friendly system.

With both Myles and I-Jax, we didn't really begin to see consistent, every game, positive contribution (regardless of playing time) until they got to their 3rd years. (Really, the end of this last year - his third year for I-Jax). I don't really expect Walker to develop faster than Myles or I-Jax?

The small part of me that was bitterly disappointed that the pacers didn’t beat the Celtics was just vaporized by remembering the Christmas/Allen/Hill seasons. This whole run has been a dream tbh, and having roster “issues” like Walker vs Toppin or how we fit Math, Shep and Nembhard into a rotation really is a privilege. The more I think about it the more I think they should just run it back and maybe add a bigger body backup center (Drummond, Adams, Valanciunas etc).

I agree with you this was a dream season and this strong of a team is what we’ve been hoping for since the last time the Pacers had a run of consecutive playoff appearances.

As fans we have a high level of interest and constructively criticize and critique the organization and players but it’s because we want them to succeed. We’re constantly wanting success to come.

Thank you for bringing up the point that the season was more successful than we expected and that now we can enjoy the progress, accolades, and achievements the Pacers gave their fans. Here’s to a longer season next season.

[boomershadow]

I was looking back at the Haliburton/Brown/Mathurin/Toppin/Turner starting lineup that was used at the beginning of the season and marveling at all the change that happened over the course of the season.

There were times when the team looked outsized and outmuscled in the playoffs, but not nearly as much as the Haliburton/Nembhard/Hield/Nesmith/Turner lineup from last year would have been.

[Pacers Forever]

I was looking back at the Haliburton/Brown/Mathurin/Toppin/Turner starting lineup that was used at the beginning of the season and marveling at all the change that happened over the course of the season.

There were times when the team looked outsized and outmuscled in the playoffs, but not nearly as much as the Haliburton/Nembhard/Hield/Nesmith/Turner lineup from last year would have been.

Acquiring Siakam was huge in shoring up the lineup. His skill set filled the 4 position void giving the Pacers more height, an isolation/post up paint scoring option, a bit of a ball handling big, a get out and run player, and more rebounding some games.

Trading Buddy was a huge swing towards being better defensively and hoping Nembhard or Nesmith could step up offensively also. Nembhard has made this trade a no brainer.

After listening to Caitlin’s video I have to agree that our two most likely to be replaced position players in the near future would be Nesmith and Turner. I could tell she would like Anunoby to sign here. Nesmith if willing could move to the second team and maintain the defensive depth.

Other takeaways I heard were that Mathurin needs to mature some skills and could play on the second team so that TJ can set him up to score.

Also that she feels like a lot of us do that Jarace Walker has skills but hasn’t really shown enough. He’s been very good and very flawed in his defense. He’s improved his offense which is great. I think he can be better offensively and not just a facilitator which he has been adequate in passing.

I think he just needs more time to develop and I expect this upcoming season the coaching staff will be working hard to get everything out of him that they can knowing he will potentially get second team minutes that are open with the Jalen Smith departure.

[JMaster5K]

Anyone else feel like free agency should take place before the draft?....

[Pacers Forever]

Anyone else feel like free agency should take place before the draft?....

The unfortunate thing is that free agency can drag on for weeks.

I would do away with the different dates of free agent contact currently in place and have a 1 or 2 week free agency period where free agents sign immediately. No courtship period lol. In fairness this has to happen right after the NBA championship is finished.

During the championship weeks teams would be working out draft prospects daily which would be hardest for the 2 finals teams. I’m not sure how many weeks it takes for the prospects to make the rounds to all teams.

Next comes the 2 week free agency period. After that ends would be the draft. After the draft free agency opens again for the lesser coveted free agents not signed during the first 1-2 week period.

My rambling is probably not realistic but in short free agency needs to be started before the draft so that teams can shape their rosters or pivot if their planned free agent acquisitions go elsewhere. Then they can make alternate draft moves based off of free agency hits or misses.

[Scoot McGroot]

Anyone else feel like free agency should take place before the draft?....

The unfortunate thing is that free agency can drag on for weeks.

I would do away with the different dates of free agent contact currently in place and have a 1 or 2 week free agency period where free agents sign immediately. No courtship period lol. In fairness this has to happen right after the NBA championship is finished.

During the championship weeks teams would be working out draft prospects daily which would be hardest for the 2 finals teams. I’m not sure how many weeks it takes for the prospects to make the rounds to all teams.

Next comes the 2 week free agency period. After that ends would be the draft. After the draft free agency opens again for the lesser coveted free agents not signed during the first 1-2 week period.

My rambling is probably not realistic but in short free agency needs to be started before the draft so that teams can shape their rosters or pivot if their planned free agent acquisitions go elsewhere. Then they can make alternate draft moves based off of free agency hits or misses.

The big issue is that timeframe of talking but not signing is the moratorium. That’s an important time period where the league can crunch all the numbers, and ascertain whether players got their negotiated share of BRI, that teams get their proper share of BRI and revenue sharing, and determine what the salary cap and exceptions are set at for the contracts that are about to be signed. Can’t really sign deals until you know what players can sign for, and what the cap, tax, aprons, etc are set at.

You can still do the draft before the moratorium, which is largely why it is held earlier than free agency. That, and the owners want the draft first so they can draft cheaper talent first and see if it fills the holes rather than have to sign more expensive free agents.

[JMaster5K]

Anyone else feel like free agency should take place before the draft?....

The unfortunate thing is that free agency can drag on for weeks.

I would do away with the different dates of free agent contact currently in place and have a 1 or 2 week free agency period where free agents sign immediately. No courtship period lol. In fairness this has to happen right after the NBA championship is finished.

During the championship weeks teams would be working out draft prospects daily which would be hardest for the 2 finals teams. I’m not sure how many weeks it takes for the prospects to make the rounds to all teams.

Next comes the 2 week free agency period. After that ends would be the draft. After the draft free agency opens again for the lesser coveted free agents not signed during the first 1-2 week period.

My rambling is probably not realistic but in short free agency needs to be started before the draft so that teams can shape their rosters or pivot if their planned free agent acquisitions go elsewhere. Then they can make alternate draft moves based off of free agency hits or misses.

The big issue is that timeframe of talking but not signing is the moratorium. That’s an important time period where the league can crunch all the numbers, and ascertain whether players got their negotiated share of BRI, that teams get their proper share of BRI and revenue sharing, and determine what the salary cap and exceptions are set at for the contracts that are about to be signed. Can’t really sign deals until you know what players can sign for, and what the cap, tax, aprons, etc are set at.

You can still do the draft before the moratorium, which is largely why it is held earlier than free agency. That, and the owners want the draft first so they can draft cheaper talent first and see if it fills the holes rather than have to sign more expensive free agents.

I hear you. Hadn't thought about the business side of the moratorium. Historically, I get why the draft was before the FA period,... with most teams filling out their team via the draft, then completing their roster via the FA period. Now, though, I think it's more than arguable with player empowerment & player movement that the FA period is where teams fill out their team, with the draft primarily for filling in the holes & real future development, less immediate impact.

With FA now changing teams as often as they do, the whole shape of the team (including who you are going to spend time to develop and who you are not) can be driven by FA. There will still be rebuilding & developing teams for whom the draft in that particular year is more important than FA. Those teams won't be disadvantages by FA coming before the draft, but teams that are trying to contend & are making moves via FA, are disadvantaged at the draft. Ultimately, the person who suffers the most, is the draft pick that goes from potential to holding a roster spot & nothing more because of FA signings.

There would definitely be some 'bugs' that needed to be worked out, even more so with such a large schedule change, but, what Pacers Forever said, for me, makes more sense than the current timeline. If you made the moratorium the week after the potential 7th game in the championships (last week in June), then opened FA signings with the start of the new league year on 1st July, could you not hold the draft say 6th? With the Summer league (like this year) starting on the 12th? Then you just keep the FA signing period open?

I know it's not going to happen. I know there are reasons that this won't happen. It just seems to me that it makes a bit more sense than the current timeline?

[Scoot McGroot]

The unfortunate thing is that free agency can drag on for weeks.

I would do away with the different dates of free agent contact currently in place and have a 1 or 2 week free agency period where free agents sign immediately. No courtship period lol. In fairness this has to happen right after the NBA championship is finished.

During the championship weeks teams would be working out draft prospects daily which would be hardest for the 2 finals teams. I’m not sure how many weeks it takes for the prospects to make the rounds to all teams.

Next comes the 2 week free agency period. After that ends would be the draft. After the draft free agency opens again for the lesser coveted free agents not signed during the first 1-2 week period.

My rambling is probably not realistic but in short free agency needs to be started before the draft so that teams can shape their rosters or pivot if their planned free agent acquisitions go elsewhere. Then they can make alternate draft moves based off of free agency hits or misses.

The big issue is that timeframe of talking but not signing is the moratorium. That’s an important time period where the league can crunch all the numbers, and ascertain whether players got their negotiated share of BRI, that teams get their proper share of BRI and revenue sharing, and determine what the salary cap and exceptions are set at for the contracts that are about to be signed. Can’t really sign deals until you know what players can sign for, and what the cap, tax, aprons, etc are set at.

You can still do the draft before the moratorium, which is largely why it is held earlier than free agency. That, and the owners want the draft first so they can draft cheaper talent first and see if it fills the holes rather than have to sign more expensive free agents.

I hear you. Hadn't thought about the business side of the moratorium. Historically, I get why the draft was before the FA period,... with most teams filling out their team via the draft, then completing their roster via the FA period. Now, though, I think it's more than arguable with player empowerment & player movement that the FA period is where teams fill out their team, with the draft primarily for filling in the holes & real future development, less immediate impact.

With FA now changing teams as often as they do, the whole shape of the team (including who you are going to spend time to develop and who you are not) can be driven by FA. There will still be rebuilding & developing teams for whom the draft in that particular year is more important than FA. Those teams won't be disadvantages by FA coming before the draft, but teams that are trying to contend & are making moves via FA, are disadvantaged at the draft. Ultimately, the person who suffers the most, is the draft pick that goes from potential to holding a roster spot & nothing more because of FA signings.

There would definitely be some 'bugs' that needed to be worked out, even more so with such a large schedule change, but, what Pacers Forever said, for me, makes more sense than the current timeline. If you made the moratorium the week after the potential 7th game in the championships (last week in June), then opened FA signings with the start of the new league year on 1st July, could you not hold the draft say 6th? With the Summer league (like this year) starting on the 12th? Then you just keep the FA signing period open?

I know it's not going to happen. I know there are reasons that this won't happen. It just seems to me that it makes a bit more sense than the current timeline?

Oh, maybe. But that essentially means that teams get 2-3 less weeks with their drafted players in the offseason, and I can’t imagine they like that option either?

I think free agency is held as soon as it can be after the books are worked. The draft is held when it is because it doesn’t depend on the books being worked as rookie salary contracts aren’t tied to the cap.

[JMaster5K]

The big issue is that timeframe of talking but not signing is the moratorium. That’s an important time period where the league can crunch all the numbers, and ascertain whether players got their negotiated share of BRI, that teams get their proper share of BRI and revenue sharing, and determine what the salary cap and exceptions are set at for the contracts that are about to be signed. Can’t really sign deals until you know what players can sign for, and what the cap, tax, aprons, etc are set at.

You can still do the draft before the moratorium, which is largely why it is held earlier than free agency. That, and the owners want the draft first so they can draft cheaper talent first and see if it fills the holes rather than have to sign more expensive free agents.

I hear you. Hadn't thought about the business side of the moratorium. Historically, I get why the draft was before the FA period,... with most teams filling out their team via the draft, then completing their roster via the FA period. Now, though, I think it's more than arguable with player empowerment & player movement that the FA period is where teams fill out their team, with the draft primarily for filling in the holes & real future development, less immediate impact.

With FA now changing teams as often as they do, the whole shape of the team (including who you are going to spend time to develop and who you are not) can be driven by FA. There will still be rebuilding & developing teams for whom the draft in that particular year is more important than FA. Those teams won't be disadvantages by FA coming before the draft, but teams that are trying to contend & are making moves via FA, are disadvantaged at the draft. Ultimately, the person who suffers the most, is the draft pick that goes from potential to holding a roster spot & nothing more because of FA signings.

There would definitely be some 'bugs' that needed to be worked out, even more so with such a large schedule change, but, what Pacers Forever said, for me, makes more sense than the current timeline. If you made the moratorium the week after the potential 7th game in the championships (last week in June), then opened FA signings with the start of the new league year on 1st July, could you not hold the draft say 6th? With the Summer league (like this year) starting on the 12th? Then you just keep the FA signing period open?

I know it's not going to happen. I know there are reasons that this won't happen. It just seems to me that it makes a bit more sense than the current timeline?

Oh, maybe. But that essentially means that teams get 2-3 less weeks with their drafted players in the offseason, and I can’t imagine they like that option either?

I think free agency is held as soon as it can be after the books are worked. The draft is held when it is because it doesn’t depend on the books being worked as rookie salary contracts aren’t tied to the cap.

I have to believe that you are right. The business side is likely driving this arrangement. As is often said,.. 'It is what it is',... Guess it's enough to know that I'm not the only one that can see it the other way around,....

[JMaster5K]

Short article with interview comments from Coach about Mathurin,...

“has a chance to be a star caliber player…”

“He has gotten to see over the last (two and a half) months what wins,” & “It is defense, speed, quick decision-making and recognition.”

"And so his workouts this summer are going to be geared toward fast, efficient, quick decision making and developing defensively. He has the ability to be a terrific two-way player in this league.”

https://lastwordonsports.com/basketball/2024/05/31/pacers-rick-carlisle-sees-star-potential-bennedict-mathurin/

[JMaster5K]

For those that didn't see it, player by player breakdown after the season by Dustin with the Star.

https://eu.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2024/06/05/a-player-by-player-look-at-the-pacers-as-they-move-beyond-2023-24/73966935007/

[Wizop]

Watch on YouTube

[boomershadow]

Basically what you would expect from the GM. Key takeaway for me is don't expect any major trades or roster change ups unless an amazing deal comes along.

[Wizop]

Basically what you would expect from the GM. Key takeaway for me is don't expect any major trades or roster change ups unless an amazing deal comes along.

and don't expect any minor trades at all except maybe ones replacing Doug and free agents who do not re-sign.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Wizards fan here....

There have been rumblings of the Pacers having interest in Kuzma.

Do you think a trade of Walker + 36 for Kuzma is feasible?