Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!)

[minimus]

You guys trading Towns for mediocre offensive players when we are a mediocre offense just makes this team have a lower ceiling since the offense gets worse.

It's why the ideal trade(s) are for players like Trae Young or other offensive savants.

Well, on one hand we should avoid players who could not have contribute in current playoffs, on another hand we can see how some guys how were considered to be liability in playoffs over perform. The most perfect example is TJ McConnell.

Yes, Towns an elite offensive player. But he plays out of position in MIN, has questionable basketball IQ, prone to dumb fouls etc. I absolutely dont want Tray Young, because he is an antithesis of our defensive identity. If we can split Towns contract into two TJ McConnell level players who FIT and a FRP(young prospect), I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[Colbinii]

You guys trading Towns for mediocre offensive players when we are a mediocre offense just makes this team have a lower ceiling since the offense gets worse.

It's why the ideal trade(s) are for players like Trae Young or other offensive savants.

Well, on one hand we should avoid players who could not have contribute in current playoffs, on another hand we can see how some guys how were considered to be liability in playoffs over perform. The most perfect example is TJ McConnell.

Yes, Towns an elite offensive player. But he plays out of position in MIN, has questionable basketball IQ, prone to dumb fouls etc. I absolutely dont want Tray Young, because he is an antithesis of our defensive identity. If we can split Towns contract into two TJ McConnell level players who FIT and a FRP(young prospect), I'd do it in a heartbeat.

You want to trade Towns for 2 6th men?

[BlacJacMac]

You guys trading Towns for mediocre offensive players when we are a mediocre offense just makes this team have a lower ceiling since the offense gets worse.

It's why the ideal trade(s) are for players like Trae Young or other offensive savants.

Trae Young is wildly overrated.

• Arguably the worst defender in the game.
• Turns it over a lot.
• He's a good, but not great, shooter.
• Atlanta was better when he didn't play.

The only thing I like about him is his ability to get to the line (which would probably be cut in half if he joined us...)

[Colbinii]

You guys trading Towns for mediocre offensive players when we are a mediocre offense just makes this team have a lower ceiling since the offense gets worse.

It's why the ideal trade(s) are for players like Trae Young or other offensive savants.

Trae Young is wildly overrated.

• Arguably the worst defender in the game.

Yup. Just like Steve Nash.

• Turns it over a lot.

Yup. Just like Steve Nash and James Harden.

Let me explain how turnovers work. The more you have the ball, the more you turn the ball over. A player like Jaden McDaniels isn't going to have turnovers because he never touches the ball. That doesn't mean him having less turnovers than someone like Trae Young is a positive. They play different roles.

Trae Young has one of the highest usage rates in NBA History and it has resulted in some of the best OFFENSES in NBA history.

• He's a good, but not great, shooter.

Yup, but an incredible offensive player overall.

• Atlanta was better when he didn't play.

They have 2 good Points Guards.

Did you account for every year of his career or just 1 season?

Did you account for which teammates were also missing time with him or not?

[BlacJacMac]

Great. He's a homeless man's Steve Nash.

I'll pass.

I also don't want a guy that ball dominant to play next to Ant.

[TimberKat]

You guys trading Towns for mediocre offensive players when we are a mediocre offense just makes this team have a lower ceiling since the offense gets worse.

It's why the ideal trade(s) are for players like Trae Young or other offensive savants.

Trae Young is wildly overrated.

• Arguably the worst defender in the game.
• Turns it over a lot.
• He's a good, but not great, shooter.
• Atlanta was better when he didn't play.

The only thing I like about him is his ability to get to the line (which would probably be cut in half if he joined us...)

Sounds a lot like Towns. Only difference is Towns' turnovers comes from his offensive fouls

[Colbinii]

You guys trading Towns for mediocre offensive players when we are a mediocre offense just makes this team have a lower ceiling since the offense gets worse.

It's why the ideal trade(s) are for players like Trae Young or other offensive savants.

Trae Young is wildly overrated.

• Arguably the worst defender in the game.
• Turns it over a lot.
• He's a good, but not great, shooter.
• Atlanta was better when he didn't play.

The only thing I like about him is his ability to get to the line (which would probably be cut in half if he joined us...)

Sounds a lot like Towns. Only difference is Towns' turnovers comes from his offensive fouls

Towns also doesn't average 10+ APG

[BlacJacMac]

Trae Young is wildly overrated.

• Arguably the worst defender in the game.
• Turns it over a lot.
• He's a good, but not great, shooter.
• Atlanta was better when he didn't play.

The only thing I like about him is his ability to get to the line (which would probably be cut in half if he joined us...)

Sounds a lot like Towns. Only difference is Towns' turnovers comes from his offensive fouls

Towns also doesn't average 10+ APG

Towns plays defense. As much fun as it is to bag on his defense, he played KD and Jokic as well as you can.

Yeah, he gets out of control at times and can get into his own head, but his move to the 4 has come with a huge jump in his defensive effectiveness.

[Colbinii]

Sounds a lot like Towns. Only difference is Towns' turnovers comes from his offensive fouls

Towns also doesn't average 10+ APG

Towns plays defense. As much fun as it is to bag on his defense, he played KD and Jokic as well as you can.

Yeah, he gets out of control at times and can get into his own head, but his move to the 4 has come with a huge jump in his defensive effectiveness.

Right. I consider them similar caliber players, and much prefer trading Towns for a similar caliber player compared to 2 6th Man and a random draft pick.

[TimberKat]

Trae Young is wildly overrated.

• Arguably the worst defender in the game.
• Turns it over a lot.
• He's a good, but not great, shooter.
• Atlanta was better when he didn't play.

The only thing I like about him is his ability to get to the line (which would probably be cut in half if he joined us...)

Sounds a lot like Towns. Only difference is Towns' turnovers comes from his offensive fouls

Towns also doesn't average 10+ APG

Somehow, variations of a couple bench players or picks is better that either. Is this more like the BOGO deal is always better than the prime rib sandwich?

Also wondering, If we today put together a trade of Kuminga + Kessler + Keyonte George for "X". Who could we get besides Beal?

[Klomp]

You guys trading Towns for mediocre offensive players when we are a mediocre offense just makes this team have a lower ceiling since the offense gets worse.

I do believe we are a team that might be a "sum of its parts is greater than its whole", and I wouldn't rule out a potential trade that is in a similar veil.

First of all, the money thing is a factor. We can debate potential taxes and aprons all we want, but having three players make up just under 100% of the team salary cap amount is less than ideal if we are trying to take another step forward. This doesn't have to mean we are slashing salaries. But something as simple as rearranging salaries could go a long way in team-building.

Next, we need to look at the impact of players and how they maximize the rest of the roster. Does Karl-Anthony Towns maximize Anthony Edwards? Does Karl-Anthony Towns maximize Rudy Gobert. It's not as simplistic of saying he is a 41% 3-point shooter. How many attempts is he taking? Where is he taking them? These are things we are still hoping for improvements in and we are two seasons into this "experiment" with the big lineup.

One reason I'd argue the offense is less efficient than others is that it is so reliant on the big man. He is arguably our second-best player at creating his own shot. That's not a great recipe for success in the long run. We need more perimeter players who can get their own shot in the offense ahead of him. And if you are sliding Towns down the pecking order as a result, does it make the most financial sense to use 35% of the salary cap on someone who might be your third option to create offense? If we spread out his salary to more shot creators, more facilitators and/or more spot-up shooters, it could mean more success for us as a team even if you think we are adding lesser offensive talents.

Additionally, trading Towns would not have to mean that the team is abandoning the big lineup. There are other big men in this league who can shoot 3-pointers. Just as one example, I don't think a 41.6% 3-point shooter taking 5.3 attempts per game at 7-feet tall is better for this offense than a 39.9% 3-point shooter taking 8.0 attempts per game at 7-feet tall (Lauri Markkanen). That's just one example. Heck, simply sliding Naz Reid into Towns' role could mean attempting two more 3-pointers per 100 possessions at just a 0.2% drop in efficiency.

I am not dead-set on trading Karl-Anthony Towns. However, I think it would be foolish to not consider it moving forward.

[KATKlownFeet]

I'm kind of sick of all this trade KAT talk. He's come off an injury, so he's not 100%. He's been a career 40% three point shooter, efficient scorer from 2, 3 and free throw line, good rebounder and an improving defender. While there are a few guys I would trade KAT for, nobody's going to offer someone better than KAT. Like Vultures, other GMs will look to unload overhyped stars on us and hope we sell low on KAT. Some of the trades being discussed in this thread if they were to occur, would make me want to puke and hopefully TC isn't that stupid.

[younggunsmn]

You guys trading Towns for mediocre offensive players when we are a mediocre offense just makes this team have a lower ceiling since the offense gets worse.

It's why the ideal trade(s) are for players like Trae Young or other offensive savants.

Trae Young sucks. Teams are asking Atlanta about Murray but no smart GM wants to touch Trae Young.
It's going to be some stupid or desperate team like the Lakers that eventually trades for him and watches their team get worse.
He's a less streaky version of DeAngelo Russell.

Dejounte Murray on the other hand, has a history of playing good defense and putting up decent efficiency even when his usage drops as the 2nd banana.
I think he could fit well with Ant and his size and rebounding at the point fit our defensive identity well.
Teams would hunt Trae Young on defense mercilessly, much worse than they already do KAT.

Ant desperately needs another guard here to be able to help take some of the playmaking pressure off him and free him up to move without the ball more, but not someone who has to be extremely ball dominant to be any kind of effective.
We need a prime Mike Conley who could average 20PPG without taking a ton of shots, to go with old man Mike Conley who can transition into a ~24 MPG role spelling both.

[younggunsmn]

You guys trading Towns for mediocre offensive players when we are a mediocre offense just makes this team have a lower ceiling since the offense gets worse.

I do believe we are a team that might be a "sum of its parts is greater than its whole", and I wouldn't rule out a potential trade that is in a similar veil.

First of all, the money thing is a factor. We can debate potential taxes and aprons all we want, but having three players make up just under 100% of the team salary cap amount is less than ideal if we are trying to take another step forward. This doesn't have to mean we are slashing salaries. But something as simple as rearranging salaries could go a long way in team-building.

Next, we need to look at the impact of players and how they maximize the rest of the roster. Does Karl-Anthony Towns maximize Anthony Edwards? Does Karl-Anthony Towns maximize Rudy Gobert. It's not as simplistic of saying he is a 41% 3-point shooter. How many attempts is he taking? Where is he taking them? These are things we are still hoping for improvements in and we are two seasons into this "experiment" with the big lineup.

One reason I'd argue the offense is less efficient than others is that it is so reliant on the big man. He is arguably our second-best player at creating his own shot. That's not a great recipe for success in the long run. We need more perimeter players who can get their own shot in the offense ahead of him. And if you are sliding Towns down the pecking order as a result, does it make the most financial sense to use 35% of the salary cap on someone who might be your third option to create offense? If we spread out his salary to more shot creators, more facilitators and/or more spot-up shooters, it could mean more success for us as a team even if you think we are adding lesser offensive talents.

Additionally, trading Towns would not have to mean that the team is abandoning the big lineup. There are other big men in this league who can shoot 3-pointers. Just as one example, I don't think a 41.6% 3-point shooter taking 5.3 attempts per game at 7-feet tall is better for this offense than a 39.9% 3-point shooter taking 8.0 attempts per game at 7-feet tall (Lauri Markkanen). That's just one example. Heck, simply sliding Naz Reid into Towns' role could mean attempting two more 3-pointers per 100 possessions at just a 0.2% drop in efficiency.

I am not dead-set on trading Karl-Anthony Towns. However, I think it would be foolish to not consider it moving forward.

Yeah the value over replacement argument leans heavily against keeping KAT.

We have Naz as PF and backup center.
Is there a huge dropoff to someone like DeAndre Hunter or Dorian Finney-Smith position wise?
If you can find a way to reallocate some of KAT's salary to another guard to play with Ant, you might be better.

The supermax contract is just a killer if KAT isn't your undeniable 2nd star.

Is the dropoff defensively without Rudy a lot more than the offense without KAT?

[KATKlownFeet]

There is no easy way out of the mess that TC put this franchise in. I'm going to bring in a new coach to try and unlock Jaden and get KAT playing at his peak again. We also need to get Leonard Miller more involved as he is someone who may have future star potential. Conley and Ant are dogs, but we need to get a backup point guard more integrated into the offense whether we resign Monte or sign Tyus Jones. I'd grab Killian Hayes as the next NAW project.

[guest81]

There is no easy way out of the mess that TC put this franchise in. I'm going to bring in a new coach to try and unlock Jaden and get KAT playing at his peak again. We also need to get Leonard Miller more involved as he is someone who may have future star potential. Conley and Ant are dogs, but we need to get a backup point guard more integrated into the offense whether we resign Monte or sign Tyus Jones. I'd grab Killian Hayes as the next NAW project.

A mess from tc? Did you start watching the wolves after the wcf?

[Colbinii]

There is no easy way out of the mess that TC put this franchise in. I'm going to bring in a new coach to try and unlock Jaden and get KAT playing at his peak again. We also need to get Leonard Miller more involved as he is someone who may have future star potential. Conley and Ant are dogs, but we need to get a backup point guard more integrated into the offense whether we resign Monte or sign Tyus Jones. I'd grab Killian Hayes as the next NAW project.

Are you drunk?

Lol a new coach. We have a great coach.

[Guest84]

There is no easy way out of the mess that TC put this franchise in. I'm going to bring in a new coach to try and unlock Jaden and get KAT playing at his peak again. We also need to get Leonard Miller more involved as he is someone who may have future star potential. Conley and Ant are dogs, but we need to get a backup point guard more integrated into the offense whether we resign Monte or sign Tyus Jones. I'd grab Killian Hayes as the next NAW project.

The wolves aren’t getting rid of Finch after a wcf run. Can’t count on Jaden until they actually run some plays for him and make him a focal point.

We need a starting pg capable of moving Mike to the bench. Monte and Tyus aren’t it. Ant needs a running mate at wing or guard.

This team needs to improve iq, athleticism, and more. None of our top guys maximize each others game. Arenas actually explained it well on his previous show from an x and o standpoint.

Jaden needs to add weight, strength and more in the off-season. Ant needs to work on using the PnR to manipulate the defense instead of just for scoring opportunities.

Kat and Rudy are what they are at this point. You either live with that and work around it or move on. Tough offseason decisions coming.

[KATKlownFeet]

There is no easy way out of the mess that TC put this franchise in. I'm going to bring in a new coach to try and unlock Jaden and get KAT playing at his peak again. We also need to get Leonard Miller more involved as he is someone who may have future star potential. Conley and Ant are dogs, but we need to get a backup point guard more integrated into the offense whether we resign Monte or sign Tyus Jones. I'd grab Killian Hayes as the next NAW project.

A mess from tc? Did you start watching the wolves after the wcf?

??? Wolves had Ant, Jaden and KAT plus all their first round picks and capspace. TC gave away most of our valuable draft picks and spent remaining capspace on Rudy. That's the future mess TC put us in.

[KATKlownFeet]

There is no easy way out of the mess that TC put this franchise in. I'm going to bring in a new coach to try and unlock Jaden and get KAT playing at his peak again. We also need to get Leonard Miller more involved as he is someone who may have future star potential. Conley and Ant are dogs, but we need to get a backup point guard more integrated into the offense whether we resign Monte or sign Tyus Jones. I'd grab Killian Hayes as the next NAW project.

Are you drunk?

Lol a new coach. We have a great coach.

Mike Conley??? You surely can't be talking about Doofus Finch.