Which of these recent players will ultimately rank above Kobe?

[MavsDirk41]

Stats

[One_and_Done]

Well yeh, because Jordan isn't a 7-0 superfreak who is a combination of Shaq and KG. If Giannis could shoot 3s at a high level too he'd be in the running for being the GOAT.

I don't care if most people agree with me, I'm trying to win a debate not a popularity contest. I will note though that when I did a poll for the top 5 players in the last 25 years the top 5 choices I put won by a huge amount (Lebron, Duncan, Curry, Jokic and Shaq in that exact order).

Lol well Giannis isnt a combination of Shaq and Garnett either. How many years was Giannis considered the best player in the nba? Lets start there….ill wait….

Are you winning a debate if nobody agrees with you lol? And if Jokic’s career ended today he would not be ranked above Kobe Bryant and ranking Curry and Jokic above Shaq is another ridiculous claim. You have a weird hatred for Kobe and Jordan, probably because of your infactuation with ole chosen. You feel threatened by them im sure.

Well he has 2 MVPs, so clearly more than Kobe. Those weren't dubious lifetime achievement MVPs like Kobe in 08 either. I think most everyone was pretty on board with him being the best player on the planet in 21 too. I don't know what NBA you were watching in 2021.

Giannis and Jokic are both better than Kobe right now.

[MavsDirk41]

Well yeh, because Jordan isn't a 7-0 superfreak who is a combination of Shaq and KG. If Giannis could shoot 3s at a high level too he'd be in the running for being the GOAT.

I don't care if most people agree with me, I'm trying to win a debate not a popularity contest. I will note though that when I did a poll for the top 5 players in the last 25 years the top 5 choices I put won by a huge amount (Lebron, Duncan, Curry, Jokic and Shaq in that exact order).

Lol well Giannis isnt a combination of Shaq and Garnett either. How many years was Giannis considered the best player in the nba? Lets start there….ill wait….

Are you winning a debate if nobody agrees with you lol? And if Jokic’s career ended today he would not be ranked above Kobe Bryant and ranking Curry and Jokic above Shaq is another ridiculous claim. You have a weird hatred for Kobe and Jordan, probably because of your infactuation with ole chosen. You feel threatened by them im sure.

Well he has 2 MVPs, so clearly more than Kobe. Those weren't dubious lifetime achievement MVPs like Kobe in 08 either. I think most everyone was pretty on board with him being the best player on the planet in 21 too. I don't know what NBA you were watching in 2021.

Giannis and Jokic are both better than Kobe right now.

So now you care about MVPs? I know a few people who have more MVPs than ole chosen but im sure you would disregard that little nugget cause it doesnt equate with your weird little agenda lol……

Giannis was the best player in the nba 2019-2021 but that doesnt make him better than Kobe who has 2 finals mvps. In fact Kobe was top 5 in league mvp voting 13 years of his career. Pretty impressive.

[One_and_Done]

Lol well Giannis isnt a combination of Shaq and Garnett either. How many years was Giannis considered the best player in the nba? Lets start there….ill wait….

Are you winning a debate if nobody agrees with you lol? And if Jokic’s career ended today he would not be ranked above Kobe Bryant and ranking Curry and Jokic above Shaq is another ridiculous claim. You have a weird hatred for Kobe and Jordan, probably because of your infactuation with ole chosen. You feel threatened by them im sure.

Well he has 2 MVPs, so clearly more than Kobe. Those weren't dubious lifetime achievement MVPs like Kobe in 08 either. I think most everyone was pretty on board with him being the best player on the planet in 21 too. I don't know what NBA you were watching in 2021.

Giannis and Jokic are both better than Kobe right now.

So now you care about MVPs? I know a few people who have more MVPs than ole chosen but im sure you would disregard that little nugget cause it doesnt equate with your weird little agenda lol……

Giannis was the best player in the nba 2019-2021 but that doesnt make him better than Kobe who has 2 finals mvps. In fact Kobe was top 5 in league mvp voting 13 years of his career. Pretty impressive.

MVPs aren't the be all or anything, but they do give a rough indication of how a player was ranked at the time. You asked when Giannis was the best in the league, I told you, and you now seem to agree with me that he was indeed the best from 19-21... but somehow that doesn't matter any more, because 'that doesn't make him better than Kobe', and suddenly you invoke his finals MVPs, as though Iggy or Cornbread Maxwell are comparable to Giannis because they have the same number of finals MVPs. Why even ask when he was the best in the league if it doesn't matter all of a sudden? I dunno man, it just seems like you will grasp at anything to advance your predetermined conclusion.

Kobe has alot of longevity as a top 5 player, in a weaker league, but that's not an argument against guys who peak higher than him like Giannis.

[MavsDirk41]

Well he has 2 MVPs, so clearly more than Kobe. Those weren't dubious lifetime achievement MVPs like Kobe in 08 either. I think most everyone was pretty on board with him being the best player on the planet in 21 too. I don't know what NBA you were watching in 2021.

Giannis and Jokic are both better than Kobe right now.

So now you care about MVPs? I know a few people who have more MVPs than ole chosen but im sure you would disregard that little nugget cause it doesnt equate with your weird little agenda lol……

Giannis was the best player in the nba 2019-2021 but that doesnt make him better than Kobe who has 2 finals mvps. In fact Kobe was top 5 in league mvp voting 13 years of his career. Pretty impressive.

MVPs aren't the be all or anything, but they do give a rough indication of how a player was ranked at the time. You asked when Giannis was the best in the league, I told you, and you now seem to agree with me that he was indeed the best from 19-21... but somehow that doesn't matter any more, because 'that doesn't make him better than Kobe', and suddenly you invoke his finals MVPs, as though Iggy or Cornbread Maxwell are comparable to Giannis because they have the same number of finals MVPs. Why even ask when he was the best in the league if it doesn't matter all of a sudden? I dunno man, it just seems like you will grasp at anything to advance your predetermined conclusion.

Kobe has alot of longevity as a top 5 player, in a weaker league, but that's not an argument against guys who peak higher than him like Giannis.

Put up a poll and see how many people would rank Giannis over Kobe all time if you are so sure of yourself pal

[One_and_Done]

I mean, Kobe can't even beat Kawhi in a peak to peak poll, how is he going to beat Giannis?
viewtopic.php?t=2343415&start=100

[MavsDirk41]

I mean, Kobe can't even beat Kawhi in a peak to peak poll, how is he going to beat Giannis?
viewtopic.php?t=2343415&start=100

Put up a poll then. Kobe and Giannis career wise and see who comes out on top. Is Leonard still playing? Can’t remember the last time i saw him in a uniform.

[Loneshot]

Crazy results. Until any of these guys have as many rings as Kobe, they shouldn't be ranked above. Rings do matter.

[MavsDirk41]

Crazy results. Until any of these guys have as many rings as Kobe, they shouldn't be ranked above. Rings do matter.

Thank you!

[One_and_Done]

I mean, Kobe can't even beat Kawhi in a peak to peak poll, how is he going to beat Giannis?
viewtopic.php?t=2343415&start=100

Put up a poll then. Kobe and Giannis career wise and see who comes out on top. Is Leonard still playing? Can’t remember the last time i saw him in a uniform.

I will in good time. We have enough Kobe threads open right now.

[MavsDirk41]

I mean, Kobe can't even beat Kawhi in a peak to peak poll, how is he going to beat Giannis?
viewtopic.php?t=2343415&start=100

Put up a poll then. Kobe and Giannis career wise and see who comes out on top. Is Leonard still playing? Can’t remember the last time i saw him in a uniform.

I will in good time. We have enough Kobe threads open right now.

How is that James/Kareem poll working out for you?

[One_and_Done]

That wasn't my poll. But here's your chance to vote Kobe over Giannis.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2383147

[Handlez]

Kobe has proven more than all of them.

Jokic couldn't even get back to the conference finals after his title.

It's so difficult to maintain that level of success.

[One_and_Done]

Kobe has proven more than all of them.

Jokic couldn't even get back to the conference finals after his title.

It's so difficult to maintain that level of success.

Jokic wasn't playing with prime Shaq, or a team with Pau, Odom, Ariza/Artest, Bynum, etc. Kobe only ever won as an overdog.

[LakerLegend]

Kobe with these soft rules would be insane.

[Handlez]

Kobe has proven more than all of them.

Jokic couldn't even get back to the conference finals after his title.

It's so difficult to maintain that level of success.

Jokic wasn't playing with prime Shaq, or a team with Pau, Odom, Ariza/Artest, Bynum, etc. Kobe only ever won as an overdog.

08 western conference finals...Kobe 29 on 53%. Next highest scorer...Pau with 13 a game on 44%. More than double Pau.

09 western conference finals...Kobe 34 a game on 48%. Next highest scorer...Pau with 17.5 on 63%. Very efficient, but once again, Kobe double the points as his 2nd option.

10 western conference finals...Kobe 33.7 on 52% and 43% from 3. Next highest scorer...Pau 19.7 on 56%. Damn near doubled him again.

Obviously Bynum isn't worth much discussion, but decent role player. Ariza was a solid role player for one title. Artest averaged 11 in the playoffs on 39.8% for his one title. Both solid defenders. Odom was a great role player.

Let's not pretend that's an otherworldly cast for a back to back to back finals team and back to back champion.

Only Hakeem can lay claim to having the worse and worst supporting cast in history for a back to back champion.

[One_and_Done]

Kobe has proven more than all of them.

Jokic couldn't even get back to the conference finals after his title.

It's so difficult to maintain that level of success.

Jokic wasn't playing with prime Shaq, or a team with Pau, Odom, Ariza/Artest, Bynum, etc. Kobe only ever won as an overdog.

08 western conference finals...Kobe 29 on 53%. Next highest scorer...Pau with 13 a game on 44%. More than double Pau.

09 western conference finals...Kobe 34 a game on 48%. Next highest scorer...Pau with 17.5 on 63%. Very efficient, but once again, Kobe double the points as his 2nd option.

10 western conference finals...Kobe 33.7 on 52% and 43% from 3. Next highest scorer...Pau 19.7 on 56%. Damn near doubled him again.

Obviously Bynum isn't worth much discussion, but decent role player. Ariza was a solid role player for one title. Artest averaged 11 in the playoffs on 39.8% for his one title. Both solid defenders. Odom was a great role player.

Let's not pretend that's an otherworldly cast for a back to back to back finals team and back to back champion.

Only Hakeem can lay claim to having the worse and worst supporting cast in history for a back to back champion.

You're just cherry picking. Want me to cherry pick Kobe's bad series and their good ones? There's also only one ball, and some if these guys are defensive specialists, so obviously ppg isn't going to fully reflect their value.

The claim it's the 2nd worst supporting cast is silly. He had the best support cast in the whole league in 09 and 10. They'd have won 50+ games without him.

[Handlez]

Jokic wasn't playing with prime Shaq, or a team with Pau, Odom, Ariza/Artest, Bynum, etc. Kobe only ever won as an overdog.

08 western conference finals...Kobe 29 on 53%. Next highest scorer...Pau with 13 a game on 44%. More than double Pau.

09 western conference finals...Kobe 34 a game on 48%. Next highest scorer...Pau with 17.5 on 63%. Very efficient, but once again, Kobe double the points as his 2nd option.

10 western conference finals...Kobe 33.7 on 52% and 43% from 3. Next highest scorer...Pau 19.7 on 56%. Damn near doubled him again.

Obviously Bynum isn't worth much discussion, but decent role player. Ariza was a solid role player for one title. Artest averaged 11 in the playoffs on 39.8% for his one title. Both solid defenders. Odom was a great role player.

Let's not pretend that's an otherworldly cast for a back to back to back finals team and back to back champion.

Only Hakeem can lay claim to having the worse and worst supporting cast in history for a back to back champion.

You're just cherry picking. Want me to cherry pick Kobe's bad series and their good ones? There's also only one ball, and some if these guys are defensive specialists, so obviously ppg isn't going to fully reflect their value.

The claim it's the 2nd worst supporting cast is silly. He had the best support cast in the whole league in 09 and 10. They'd have won 50+ games without him.

Hakeem had the worst supporting cast in history for any back to back champion.

Kobe had the 2nd worst supporting cast in history for a back to back champion.

IMO.

Last 3 western champs for example...

Luka just won the western finals with his 2nd option scoring 27.
Jokic won the western finals with his second option outscoring him 32.5 to 27.8.
Curry won the western finals averaging 24 and Klay averaging 19.

Kobe was doing some hefty lifting and that allowed his role players to exert most of their energy elsewhere.

2016 east finals...LeBron averaged 26 and Kyrie averaged 24. In the finals, LeBron averaged 29.7 and Kyrie averaged 27.

People have gotten too comfortable disrespecting Kobe's achievements.

[One_and_Done]

Shockingly ppg is not the same as impact.

[SpreeS]

At the end of the day I see these guys will have better careers

Jokic/Giannis (KG yes/Dirk no)

Have no chance due injuries

Embiid/Kawhi

On the same tier

Durant

Hard to tell yet, but if they keep this trajectory they need only trophies. Both skills sets are better than Kobes.

Doncic/SGA