Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!)

[Wolves21]

The long term plan should be to build around a core of Edwards,2nd All-Star,Reid as your big three and the guys being payed and having enough money to fill out supporting players around them.

I absolutely LOVE Naz Reid. But I'm not at all convinced he's part of a "Big 3".

He's fantastic as "instant offense" off the bench. But he still doesn't rebound or defend well at all. He'll come up with a handful of show-stopping blocks, but he gets lost on rotations and is easily overwhelmed.

I wouldn't bet against him continuing to improve - because that's what he does! But I'm not sure he's ever more than a great 6th man on a contending team.

I think for this team to really go anywhere long-term its going to be because McDaniels makes a big jump in consistency on offense.

I believe in Reid way more then McDaniels and think if Reid finally get to be a starter full time could be a 20/10 player and his defense would be much improved with more minutes and playing along side the rest of the starters. He's shown improvements every year he's been in the league while McDaniels has been consistently inconstant.

McDaniels clearly has the second highest ceiling on the roster but I've have serious doubts he'll be anything more then he is currently with his mental make up.He shows flashes of Kawhi or KD light but next game will give you like five points and foul out,been the case all four of his seasons.

[shrink]

Can't aggregate salaries, can't take back more money in a trade, can't sign anyone who's waived, can't send out money in a trade, no MLE. There's more but I won't list them all. Individually you might be able to handwave some of them away but combined they practically handcuff the team.

If you feel second apron restrictions are crippling, does it make you feel better to know that 8 NBA teams are willingly going there?

Boston Celtics
Denver Nuggets
LA Clippers
Los Angeles Lakers
Memphis Grizzlies
Milwaukee Bucks
Minnesota Timberwolves
Phoenix Suns

Not really. Mainly because these are projections and no guarantee that they keep these payrolls, us included. But let's take a deeper look at this list:

Boston - undisputed best team in the league and overwhelming favourites to win the championship. If they win it this year makes perfect sense that they're paying 2nd apron taxes.
Denver - former champion who's already facing whispers that they'll have to move someone for financial reasons. They're also likely to lose KCP for nothing, I'm not sure they're keen on that.
Clippers - Ballmer is rich enough to buy multiple teams at the same time. Totally different ball park.
Lakers - I'll believe this when I see it
Memphis - Already shipped Adams out for absolutely nothing to cut into this bill. Not real sure I'd argue they're "willingly" going there.
Bucks - Also unwilling but for separate reasons; if they don't they lose Giannis
Suns - ...do you really want to be in the same company as the Suns for anything?

That's not even getting into the fact our ownership situation is an absolute mess with no clear idea of who's going to be paying the bills, let alone if they're willing to or capable of paying the tax.

Assume that the team has a blank cheque if you want, my experience tells me it won't happen.

For the record, this list is from Keith Smith of Spotrac.

You and I have both followed the CBA long enough to see the NBA install rules to prevent overspending, and see teams that want to spend blow by those restrictions. A salary cap? And teams won’t be able to pay free agents whatever they want?!? Obviously this will keep teams from spending! Oh it didn’t? Salary matching trades? That will slow teams down! No? Luxury taxes? In addition to regular salaries? So a team may have to pay double or triple for that extra player? That’ll stop them! No? Well certainly no owner would pay Repeater taxes, right?

I’m usually the guy pointing out to posters that money matters. It surely does. But there are certainly times when a team should spend, and MIN, suddenly with a rare winning team and the chance to gain public support to build a new arena, should spend. The dollars that a new arena can generate makes a lot of current expenses worthwhile. I didn’t think these new rules would stop spending for teams that really needed to spend for a brief time, and the fact that there are a list of teams that might go over the second apron provide evidence that is true.

[jscott]

Name one other decent trade we've done. That's more so the point.

Dlo for Conley, NAW and Second Rounders

LOL that's literally the trade he's talking about. To which I said that it's not that much because there haven't been any other amazing trades in history.

I then asked to name one other decent trade. Comical.

Love for Mayo
Rubio for Foye/Miller

[cmoss84]

Gugs for Donyell Marshall? Loved that guy and Harlans calls.

[Note30]

Dlo for Conley, NAW and Second Rounders

LOL that's literally the trade he's talking about. To which I said that it's not that much because there haven't been any other amazing trades in history.

I then asked to name one other decent trade. Comical.

Love for Mayo
Rubio for Foye/Miller

Fair. I'd argue that one of those trades is a better trade than Conley for DLo then.

[Mattya]

Name one other decent trade we've done. That's more so the point.

Dlo for Conley, NAW and Second Rounders

LOL that's literally the trade he's talking about. To which I said that it's not that much because there haven't been any other amazing trades in history.

I then asked to name one other decent trade. Comical.

My bad I read it wrong. But is there a specific reason you’re being such an a hole?

[guest81]

Name one other decent trade we've done. That's more so the point.

Dlo for Conley, NAW and Second Rounders

LOL that's literally the trade he's talking about. To which I said that it's not that much because there haven't been any other amazing trades in history.

I then asked to name one other decent trade. Comical.

Conley only has 2 trades so far. Who cares what happened with previous gms?

[Note30]

Dlo for Conley, NAW and Second Rounders

LOL that's literally the trade he's talking about. To which I said that it's not that much because there haven't been any other amazing trades in history.

I then asked to name one other decent trade. Comical.

My bad I read it wrong. But is there a specific reason you’re being such an a hole?

My bad didn't realize I was being an a hole. As for why, I'm just frustrated at the position we are in. I think we're stuck where we are and see little room for improvement and I really don't like seeing posts that don't coincide with this view.

[shangrila]

If you feel second apron restrictions are crippling, does it make you feel better to know that 8 NBA teams are willingly going there?

Boston Celtics
Denver Nuggets
LA Clippers
Los Angeles Lakers
Memphis Grizzlies
Milwaukee Bucks
Minnesota Timberwolves
Phoenix Suns

Not really. Mainly because these are projections and no guarantee that they keep these payrolls, us included. But let's take a deeper look at this list:

Boston - undisputed best team in the league and overwhelming favourites to win the championship. If they win it this year makes perfect sense that they're paying 2nd apron taxes.
Denver - former champion who's already facing whispers that they'll have to move someone for financial reasons. They're also likely to lose KCP for nothing, I'm not sure they're keen on that.
Clippers - Ballmer is rich enough to buy multiple teams at the same time. Totally different ball park.
Lakers - I'll believe this when I see it
Memphis - Already shipped Adams out for absolutely nothing to cut into this bill. Not real sure I'd argue they're "willingly" going there.
Bucks - Also unwilling but for separate reasons; if they don't they lose Giannis
Suns - ...do you really want to be in the same company as the Suns for anything?

That's not even getting into the fact our ownership situation is an absolute mess with no clear idea of who's going to be paying the bills, let alone if they're willing to or capable of paying the tax.

Assume that the team has a blank cheque if you want, my experience tells me it won't happen.

For the record, this list is from Keith Smith of Spotrac.

You and I have both followed the CBA long enough to see the NBA install rules to prevent overspending, and see teams that want to spend blow by those restrictions. A salary cap? And teams won’t be able to pay free agents whatever they want?!? Obviously this will keep teams from spending! Oh it didn’t? Salary matching trades? That will slow teams down! No? Luxury taxes? In addition to regular salaries? So a team may have to pay double or triple for that extra player? That’ll stop them! No?

I’m usually the guy pointing out to posters that money matters. It surely does. But there are certainly times when a team should spend, and MIN, suddenly with a rare winning team and the chance to gain public support to build a new arena, should spend. The dollars that a new arena can generate makes a lot of current expenses worthwhile. I didn’t think these new rules would stop spending for teams that really needed to spend for a brief time, and the fact that there are a list of teams that might go over the second apron provide evidence that is true.

Technically true but we haven't seen the effect of these rules just yet. And these are the harshest measures they've put in place to date and in no way comparable to having a salary cap.

[BlacJacMac]

LOL that's literally the trade he's talking about. To which I said that it's not that much because there haven't been any other amazing trades in history.

I then asked to name one other decent trade. Comical.

My bad I read it wrong. But is there a specific reason you’re being such an a hole?

My bad didn't realize I was being an a hole. As for why, I'm just frustrated at the position we are in. I think we're stuck where we are and see little room for improvement and I really don't like seeing posts that don't coincide with this view.

How bad of a position are we stuck in?

We were one of the final 3 teams. We beat last year’s champs. And as bad as things went, we were 5 points away from being up 3 games to 1 over the Mavs.

[Klomp]

The long term plan should be to build around a core of Edwards,2nd All-Star,Reid as your big three and the guys being payed and having enough money to fill out supporting players around them.

I absolutely LOVE Naz Reid. But I'm not at all convinced he's part of a "Big 3".

He's fantastic as "instant offense" off the bench. But he still doesn't rebound or defend well at all. He'll come up with a handful of show-stopping blocks, but he gets lost on rotations and is easily overwhelmed.

I wouldn't bet against him continuing to improve - because that's what he does! But I'm not sure he's ever more than a great 6th man on a contending team.

I think for this team to really go anywhere long-term its going to be because McDaniels makes a big jump in consistency on offense.

Worth noting: Our starting 5 has lacked a jolt of pure scoring. We can't continue to rely on Ant to do everything. Right now, Reid is ahead of McDaniels in that area, and that might always be the case.

[BlacJacMac]

The long term plan should be to build around a core of Edwards,2nd All-Star,Reid as your big three and the guys being payed and having enough money to fill out supporting players around them.

I absolutely LOVE Naz Reid. But I'm not at all convinced he's part of a "Big 3".

He's fantastic as "instant offense" off the bench. But he still doesn't rebound or defend well at all. He'll come up with a handful of show-stopping blocks, but he gets lost on rotations and is easily overwhelmed.

I wouldn't bet against him continuing to improve - because that's what he does! But I'm not sure he's ever more than a great 6th man on a contending team.

I think for this team to really go anywhere long-term its going to be because McDaniels makes a big jump in consistency on offense.

Worth noting: Our starting 5 has lacked a jolt of pure scoring. We can't continue to rely on Ant to do everything. Right now, Reid is ahead of McDaniels in that area, and that might always be the case.

But does replacing KAT with Naz give us that jolt?

And how much do we lose in other areas.

[Domejandro]

Outside of Lauri Markkanen for salary cap reasons, the only player I would be comfortable considering a Karl-Anthony Towns trade for would be Kevin Durant, but with Anthony Edwards getting the All-NBA salary bump (roughly $7MM more next season), there is no world in which that can happen with the Second Apron (Kevin Durant makes slightly more than Karl-Anthony Towns, killing the trade since Second Apron teams cannon take in more more in a trade or aggregate salaries).

I'd move him in a deal for Dejounte Murray and I wouldn't be upset with Garland either.

The team needs another perimeter scorer next to Ant. KAT, as talented as he is, doesn't provide what we need in that respect.

Moving a post over here, but I absolutely hate the Dejounte Murray idea. Bad fit for a mediocre starting-level Point-Guard.

For what it is worth, it is the complete opposite, in my eyes. Dejounte Murray largely gets no criticism for often being net-negative defensive player (huge gambler) because he build up a reputation as an elite defensive player on the San Antonio Spurs.

Dejounte Murray has a high usage rate, has a 2.5 A/TO ratio (good for 78th in the NBA), is inefficient from the field, most data indicates he is not a net-positive defensive player, and he has a history of attitude problems. Just seems like a horrendous fit next to Anthony Edwards on all counts, outside of a reasonably affordable contract for a starting-level Point-Guard.

[Domejandro]

If you want to trade JMcd+Naz+#1 for KD, I believe we still can do until mid-season and not next year as cap is calculated at the end of the season. We didn't go over apron one this year because we didn't make it to the finals and paid Conley's bonus. (Somebody could correct me it I got this wrong). Come to think of it, maybe that is the real reason why we didn't beat Dallas. Management wants to save money

This is not accurate. The second that a team aggregates salary in a trade, they are hard-capped, meaning that they cannot meet or exceed the Second Apron threshold at any point during the season.

[Note30]

If truly Towns needs to be traded I wonder Memphis would be a trade partner

[minimus]

Back in a days when DAL traded for Kyrie, it was considered a risky move because of Kyrie personality, off court issues and injuries. It was a risky move that paid dividends. If I think about player in similar situation (obvious not so talented, but still) it is Jonathan Isaac:

- another DPOY caliber defensive player
- injury prone
- off court issues

ORL IN: Towns, Minott
ORL OUT: Isaac, Suggs, WCJ, #18 2024 pick

Why for ORL: build around Towns-Banchero-Wagner frontcourt

MIA IN: WCJ, #27 2024 MIN pick
MIA OUT: Duncan Robinson, #15 2024 pick

Why for MIA: get a big on descending contract, improve frontcourt depth, balance roster

MIN IN: Isaac, Suggs, Robinson, #15, #18 2024 pick
MIN OUT: Towns, Moore, Minott, #27 2024 pick

Why for MIN: TC wants a roster with five All-NBA Defense caliber players. Try to get a steal with 15th and 18th pick (Jaime Jaquez Jr, Brandin Podziemsk were drafted in this range). Let say we draft De Silva and Kyshawn George.

Gobert/Reid/Isaac/Garza
Reid/Isaac/Da Silva/Miller
McDaniels/Robinson/George
Edwards/NAW/Clarke
Conley/Suggs/Morris

What is intriguing me in this scenario is potential versatility, because Isaac can defend as msall ball C.

Read on Twitter

Also I believe that Robinson can thrive as secondary ballhandler, passer next to Suggs/NAW

Watch on YouTube

It means MIN coaching staff can go absolutely crazy by putting defensive minded lineup Gobert-Isaac-McDaniels-Edwards-Suggs/NAW or all-in offensive minded Reid-McDaniels-Robinson-Edwards-Conley.

Isaac-Robinson-Suggs-NAW would give MIN more interesting options than everything that Finch could do with Reid-Anderson-NAW-McLaughlin as enforcers in Game 5 of Western Conference Finals

[shrink]

I’m curious if anyone has changed their opinion on trading KAT from their posts at the deadline? I feel like people on both sides are looking for facts to justify their feelings, not using facts to form their feelings.

I’m also curious if the “Trade Towns” people think that is what Connelly will do, or what they want to do as a fan?

People’s opinions are their opinions, so I’m not trying to be accusatory or make people feel defensive - I am legitimately curious.

[minimus]

Honest question: how many of us do really believe that next season we will be better by running back? I mean I have a few concerns that dont allow me to answer instantly "run it back! we will be better" I name some of these concerns:

1) we probably lose Anderson, who has been critical part of our success in regular season and was our emergency "break glass" player who played exceptionally well when Towns or Gobert were down. Kyle also has high basketball IQ, can rebound, defend and pass. It has been a luxury to have him as bench player

2) can Towns stay healthy? My heart will stop if he is injured again

3) can Gobert stay healthy AND productive another season as 32yo?

4) can Conley stay healthy as 36yo?

5) can Morris be an answer as backup PG? if Anderson leaves and Conley has increasing number of load management games, who will can share this load?

Any of issues above can put our "run it back" season in jeopardy. Any combination of two issues above would make it a disaster. Let say we lose KA, Towns or Gobert miss a game with load management. Who is our bigman from bench? Or let say we lose KA, Conley misses a game with load management. Who is our backup PG?

[Dewey]

Keep either Towns or Gobert … currently too much $$$$ and not enough ROI. McD had more impact than both of these guys. I could talk myself into moving Kat and starting Reid…

Acquire PG of the future … Connelly proved he is unwilling to raise his game for playoffs, but he’s a perfect backup.

NAW was horrible down the stretch … replacement needed off the bag for defense.

PG trade options?
Durant?
Isaac?
Etc…

[Note30]

Back in a days when DAL traded for Kyrie, it was considered a risky move because of Kyrie personality, off court issues and injuries. It was a risky move that paid dividends. If I think about player in similar situation (obvious not so talented, but still) it is Jonathan Isaac:

- another DPOY caliber defensive player
- injury prone
- off court issues

ORL IN: Towns, Minott
ORL OUT: Isaac, Suggs, WCJ, #18 2024 pick

Why for ORL: build around Towns-Banchero-Wagner frontcourt

MIA IN: WCJ, #27 2024 MIN pick
MIA OUT: Duncan Robinson, #15 2024 pick

Why for MIA: get a big on descending contract, improve frontcourt depth, balance roster

MIN IN: Isaac, Suggs, Robinson, #15, #18 2024 pick
MIN OUT: Towns, Moore, Minott, #27 2024 pick

Why for MIN: TC wants a roster with five All-NBA Defense caliber players. Try to get a steal with 15th and 18th pick (Jaime Jaquez Jr, Brandin Podziemsk were drafted in this range). Let say we draft De Silva and Kyshawn George.

Gobert/Reid/Isaac/Garza
Reid/Isaac/Da Silva/Miller
McDaniels/Robinson/George
Edwards/NAW/Clarke
Conley/Suggs/Morris

What is intriguing me in this scenario is potential versatility, because Isaac can defend as msall ball C.

Read on Twitter

Also I believe that Robinson can thrive as secondary ballhandler, passer next to Suggs/NAW

Watch on YouTube

It means MIN coaching staff can go absolutely crazy by putting defensive minded lineup Gobert-Isaac-McDaniels-Edwards-Suggs/NAW or all-in offensive minded Reid-McDaniels-Robinson-Edwards-Conley.

Isaac-Robinson-Suggs-NAW would give MIN more interesting options than everything that Finch could do with Reid-Anderson-NAW-McLaughlin as enforcers in Game 5 of Western Conference Finals

Kyrie has a mental problem, Jonathan Isaacs body is made of lint. One puff and he's gone.