Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 2 : We Running it Back.. (WITH MITCHELL!)

[RexBoyWonder]

IF we don't send out ANY young players or picks -

I'm desperate enough to take Lavine and Caruso for Herro and Duncan.

It might not be smart - but I just really need some fresh vibs and see something different. I think the team does too.

Only if miss out on plan A, B and C. and even then I'll hold my nose while I nodding yes.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Herro isn't some useless player, he's just overpaid and overtaxed here.

If he was making 18Mil$ per and playing the 6th man role - I'd love to have him.

The problem was we gave him 29Mil per and he's been expected to be a leading man - he's not that guy.

His style of play and no defense are a detriment to the team at any dollar amount tbh. It’s no coincidence that this team goes to another level every time he’s out. He’s just not that guy, he’s not who he or the FO thinks he is

[Kobewade11]

Herro isn't some useless player, he's just overpaid and overtaxed here.

If he was making 18Mil$ per and playing the 6th man role - I'd love to have him.

The problem was we gave him 29Mil per and he's been expected to be a leading man - he's not that guy.

Ideally he’s no higher than your third scorer. He shouldn’t be expected to be a leading man, and those expectations only come because..well who else consistently brings a scorer mentality? Not sure why Bam’s personal security detail takes issue with that.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

IF we don't send out ANY young players or picks -

I'm desperate enough to take Lavine and Caruso for Herro and Duncan.

It might not be smart - but I just really need some fresh vibs and see something different. I think the team does too.

Only if miss out on plan A, B and C. and even then I'll hold my nose while I nodding yes.

Yea this is definitely plan D but it’s still a big improvement over what we have. With Caruso I believe we have a shot at the top defense in the league. With Lavine we can definitely jump back into the higher tier of offenses.

Might as well sign their vet teammate Torrey Craig too, he fits what Spo likes to play at the 4

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Herro thinks he’s in Luka’s tier as a player because Bam and Jimmy play the roles Spo has given them and don’t care about their PPG, it all makes sense now

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Herro said he’d be all nba this season if he didn’t get injured but it’s on the FO, Cosching staff, and Jimmy/Bam for making him think that

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Honestly Bulls have a lot of useful pieces that could plug into our lineup

[al bondiga]

Herro isn't some useless player, he's just overpaid and overtaxed here.

If he was making 18Mil$ per and playing the 6th man role - I'd love to have him.

The problem was we gave him 29Mil per and he's been expected to be a leading man - he's not that guy.

His style of play and no defense are a detriment to the team at any dollar amount tbh. It’s no coincidence that this team goes to another level every time he’s out. He’s just not that guy, he’s not who he or the FO thinks he is

Guys you're being too hard on just a kid... Everybody and his grandma knows he's not a leading guy on a team...but Anybody and his grandma also knows he is Pretty good and can be a little bit better once he settles down And learns how to use his team Or be used to by it

[AirP.]

Herro isn't some useless player, he's just overpaid and overtaxed here.

If he was making 18Mil$ per and playing the 6th man role - I'd love to have him.

The problem was we gave him 29Mil per and he's been expected to be a leading man - he's not that guy.

His style of play and no defense are a detriment to the team at any dollar amount tbh. It’s no coincidence that this team goes to another level every time he’s out. He’s just not that guy, he’s not who he or the FO thinks he is

Guys you're being too hard on just a kid... Everybody and his grandma knows he's not a leading guy on a team...but Anybody and his grandma also knows he is Pretty good and can be a little bit better once he settles down And learns how to use his team Or be used to by it

So why give him 30 mil a year after his rookie contract? If he's a negative on the defensive end to justify that amount of money you obviously have to think he's incredible on the offensive side.

Herro is probably looked at differently by everyone if he only got 20-24 mil per year instead of 27-33 mil per year. The FO should have let him enter RFA and matched whatever he got offered instead of extending him a year early. It was a bad move for the FO.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Herro isn't some useless player, he's just overpaid and overtaxed here.

If he was making 18Mil$ per and playing the 6th man role - I'd love to have him.

The problem was we gave him 29Mil per and he's been expected to be a leading man - he's not that guy.

His style of play and no defense are a detriment to the team at any dollar amount tbh. It’s no coincidence that this team goes to another level every time he’s out. He’s just not that guy, he’s not who he or the FO thinks he is

Guys you're being too hard on just a kid... Everybody and his grandma knows he's not a leading guy on a team...but Anybody and his grandma also knows he is Pretty good and can be a little bit better once he settles down And learns how to use his team Or be used to by it

He’s highly overrated, it is what it is. I can find Tyler Herros on just about any team if not all of them that if given the usage and shot attempts he gets could easily match his production and on top of that would be better defensively.

He’d be the same or worse other places, this isn’t on Spo or any of the players. It’s on him and his delusional view on himself that even surpasses the Herro Stan’s views of him. Confidence is great, everyone should be confident in themselves but you also can be confident to a fault which he is.

I don’t want to be right about the dude because it does nothing but hurt my team but he has yet to prove anyone wrong about him

[MettaWorldPanda]

His style of play and no defense are a detriment to the team at any dollar amount tbh. It’s no coincidence that this team goes to another level every time he’s out. He’s just not that guy, he’s not who he or the FO thinks he is

Guys you're being too hard on just a kid... Everybody and his grandma knows he's not a leading guy on a team...but Anybody and his grandma also knows he is Pretty good and can be a little bit better once he settles down And learns how to use his team Or be used to by it

So why give him 30 mil a year after his rookie contract? If he's a negative on the defensive end to justify that amount of money you obviously have to think he's incredible on the offensive side.

Herro is probably looked at differently by everyone if he only got 20-24 mil per year instead of 27-33 mil per year. The FO should have let him enter RFA and matched whatever he got offered instead of extending him a year early. It was a bad move for the FO.

Riley has been blinded by Tyler "SMOOOOOOOOOKIN" Herro for a while now. They continue to think they can pay these guys and easily move them willy nilly later on. That was always the thought process behind Duncan's deal but yet we are still here today with basically nobody even remotely interested in taking him off our hands. And that buyout next year is a joke as well. He's guaranteed 10 million of the 19 million. There's no way we buy him out unless we desperately need 9 million to come off the cap due to the aprons and repeater tax. In that case it would be another wasted asset down the drain as a potential expiring flip.

[AirP.]

Guys you're being too hard on just a kid... Everybody and his grandma knows he's not a leading guy on a team...but Anybody and his grandma also knows he is Pretty good and can be a little bit better once he settles down And learns how to use his team Or be used to by it

So why give him 30 mil a year after his rookie contract? If he's a negative on the defensive end to justify that amount of money you obviously have to think he's incredible on the offensive side.

Herro is probably looked at differently by everyone if he only got 20-24 mil per year instead of 27-33 mil per year. The FO should have let him enter RFA and matched whatever he got offered instead of extending him a year early. It was a bad move for the FO.

Riley has been blinded by Tyler "SMOOOOOOOOOKIN" Herro for a while now. They continue to think they can pay these guys and easily move them willy nilly later on. That was always the thought process behind Duncan's deal but yet we are still here today with basically nobody even remotely interested in taking him off our hands. And that buyout next year is a joke as well. He's guaranteed 10 million of the 19 million. There's no way we buy him out unless we desperately need 9 million to come off the cap due to the aprons and repeater tax. In that case it would be another wasted asset down the drain as a potential expiring flip.

The Duncan deal, 5 reasons said it wasn't a bad deal recently completely forgetting that Duncan lost his starting position the very first season to Strus then completely fell out of the rotation the next year (not too worried about the injury that year, it happens). So, he's had 1 good value year in the first 3 years of his contract, I'd have to say that was a huge waste of money. Had they let him walk, Miami would be paying a player (Strus) who started over him 4 million less per year and interesting enough, Strus is 2 years younger. I was completely fine at that time letting Robinson walk and replacing him with a lesser 3pt shooter like Strus although he played defense much better than Robinson.

[carnageta]

Personally I don't think Herro is overpaid by much, if any at all. I'm going to sound like a broken record because I keep repeating this lol. The problem is that ya'll are expecting him to be a star in this league. However, he does NOT earn star money, and he does NOT have a star-level contract. At 27m per season, Herro was the 52nd paid highest player in the NBA.

He's a 3rd/4th option on a true contender. Just take a look at how much most 3rd and 4th options on contenders are making nowadays. I.e. MPJ on Denver earns 34m - which is even higher than Bam. 3rd option Kristapz Porzingis earns 36m. 3rd option Kris Middleton earns 29m. You get the point.


Let's stop with these Herro is overpaid posts. He's a 24 year old who averages 20ppg on 44/39/90 shooting splits. He clearly has some holes in his game (defence and shot selection being a few of them) but his youth is why he is earning a slight premium. If Herro does not improve at all (which is unlikely) he will earn identical money with his next contract.


And before people take this out of context - I'm not saying we shouldn't trade him for a better fit / player. I'm just saying the narrative of Herro being on an 'absurd' contract is simply not true.

[MettaWorldPanda]

So why give him 30 mil a year after his rookie contract? If he's a negative on the defensive end to justify that amount of money you obviously have to think he's incredible on the offensive side.

Herro is probably looked at differently by everyone if he only got 20-24 mil per year instead of 27-33 mil per year. The FO should have let him enter RFA and matched whatever he got offered instead of extending him a year early. It was a bad move for the FO.

Riley has been blinded by Tyler "SMOOOOOOOOOKIN" Herro for a while now. They continue to think they can pay these guys and easily move them willy nilly later on. That was always the thought process behind Duncan's deal but yet we are still here today with basically nobody even remotely interested in taking him off our hands. And that buyout next year is a joke as well. He's guaranteed 10 million of the 19 million. There's no way we buy him out unless we desperately need 9 million to come off the cap due to the aprons and repeater tax. In that case it would be another wasted asset down the drain as a potential expiring flip.

The Duncan deal, 5 reasons said it wasn't a bad deal recently completely forgetting that Duncan lost his starting position the very first season to Strus then completely fell out of the rotation the next year (not too worried about the injury that year, it happens). So, he's had 1 good value year in the first 3 years of his contract, I'd have to say that was a huge waste of money. Had they let him walk, Miami would be paying a player (Strus) who started over him 4 million less per year and interesting enough, Strus is 2 years younger. I was completely fine at that time letting Robinson walk and replacing him with a lesser 3pt shooter like Strus although he played defense much better than Robinson.

Strus's build and skillset was perfect for what we needed at the two guard spot and we just let him walk out the door after developing him because we had impossible to trade Duncan and newly extended Herro already on the roster. Strus also had a special relationship with Butler and overall was just a dog here at 6'5 220 with a quick three point trigger. He played his role here to a tee and that's why he was able to beat out Duncan and also show during the most crucial times why he was more important then Herro. Thunder Max Strus was a real one.

[AirP.]

Personally I don't think Herro is overpaid by much, if any at all. I'm going to sound like a broken record because I keep repeating this lol. The problem is that ya'll are expecting him to be a star in this league. However, he does NOT earn star money, and he does NOT have a star-level contract. At 27m per season, Herro was the 52nd paid highest player in the NBA.

He's a 3rd/4th option on a true contender. Just take a look at how much most 3rd and 4th options on contenders are making nowadays. I.e. MPJ on Denver earns 34m - which is even higher than Bam. 3rd option Kristapz Porzingis earns 36m. 3rd option Kris Middleton earns 29m. You get the point.


Let's stop with these Herro is overpaid posts. He's a 24 year old who averages 20ppg on 44/39/90 shooting splits. He clearly has some holes in his game (defence and shot selection being a few of them) but his youth is why he is earning a slight premium. If Herro does not improve at all (which is unlikely) he will earn identical money with his next contract.


And before people take my out of context - I'm not saying we shouldn't trade him for a better fit / player. I'm just saying the narrative of Herro being on an 'absurd' contract is simply not true.

Let me ask you this... does a negative on the defensive end but a high-volume average at best NBA efficiency say 30 mil a year to you? Because that's what you're getting out of Herro and what's even worse about that, he's a very good high volume 3pt shooter, so to possibly be at best being an average NBA efficiency player should tell you his offensive game is lacking a bunch.

Gabe Vincent, who is better on defense shot a little worse than Herro while in Miami but he didn't get the shot attempts like Herro has gotten and that player was let go because he wasn't worth 11 mil a year while Herro is worth 30? I think both Herro and Vincent were helped greatly by Spoelstra.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Personally I don't think Herro is overpaid by much, if any at all. I'm going to sound like a broken record because I keep repeating this lol. The problem is that ya'll are expecting him to be a star in this league. However, he does NOT earn star money, and he does NOT have a star-level contract. At 27m per season, Herro was the 52nd paid highest player in the NBA.

He's a 3rd/4th option on a true contender. Just take a look at how much most 3rd and 4th options on contenders are making nowadays. I.e. MPJ on Denver earns 34m - which is even higher than Bam. 3rd option Kristapz Porzingis earns 36m. 3rd option Kris Middleton earns 29m. You get the point.


Let's stop with these Herro is overpaid posts. He's a 24 year old who averages 20ppg on 44/39/90 shooting splits. He clearly has some holes in his game (defence and shot selection being a few of them) but his youth is why he is earning a slight premium. If Herro does not improve at all (which is unlikely) he will earn identical money with his next contract.


And before people take my out of context - I'm not saying we shouldn't trade him for a better fit / player. I'm just saying the narrative of Herro being on an 'absurd' contract is simply not true.

Let me ask you this... does a negative on the defensive end but a high-volume average at best NBA efficiency say 30 mil a year to you, because that's what you're getting out of Herro and what's even worse about that, he's a very good high volume 3pt shooter, so to possibly be at best being an average NBA efficiency player should tell you his offensive game is lacking a bunch.

Gabe Vincent, who is better on defense shot a little worse than Herro while in Miami but he didn't get the shot attempts like Herro has gotten and that player was let go because he wasn't worth 11 mil a year while Herro is worth 30? I think both Herro and Vincent were helped greatly by Spoelstra.

I would take Vincent and Strus back in trade for Herro right now. Like this second.

[AirP.]

Personally I don't think Herro is overpaid by much, if any at all. I'm going to sound like a broken record because I keep repeating this lol. The problem is that ya'll are expecting him to be a star in this league. However, he does NOT earn star money, and he does NOT have a star-level contract. At 27m per season, Herro was the 52nd paid highest player in the NBA.

He's a 3rd/4th option on a true contender. Just take a look at how much most 3rd and 4th options on contenders are making nowadays. I.e. MPJ on Denver earns 34m - which is even higher than Bam. 3rd option Kristapz Porzingis earns 36m. 3rd option Kris Middleton earns 29m. You get the point.


Let's stop with these Herro is overpaid posts. He's a 24 year old who averages 20ppg on 44/39/90 shooting splits. He clearly has some holes in his game (defence and shot selection being a few of them) but his youth is why he is earning a slight premium. If Herro does not improve at all (which is unlikely) he will earn identical money with his next contract.


And before people take my out of context - I'm not saying we shouldn't trade him for a better fit / player. I'm just saying the narrative of Herro being on an 'absurd' contract is simply not true.

Let me ask you this... does a negative on the defensive end but a high-volume average at best NBA efficiency say 30 mil a year to you, because that's what you're getting out of Herro and what's even worse about that, he's a very good high volume 3pt shooter, so to possibly be at best being an average NBA efficiency player should tell you his offensive game is lacking a bunch.

Gabe Vincent, who is better on defense shot a little worse than Herro while in Miami but he didn't get the shot attempts like Herro has gotten and that player was let go because he wasn't worth 11 mil a year while Herro is worth 30? I think both Herro and Vincent were helped greatly by Spoelstra.

I would take Vincent and Strus back in trade for Herro right now. Like this second.

With all this said, Herro probably would look very good in an offense like Indiana's or better yet Sacramento's. His game, his limitations just don't work in Miami or probably a lot of teams, he needs an opened-up court. One team that could take a chance on Herro would be San Antonio, if I were them, I'd consider trading for Herro if he's somewhat cheap.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Let me ask you this... does a negative on the defensive end but a high-volume average at best NBA efficiency say 30 mil a year to you, because that's what you're getting out of Herro and what's even worse about that, he's a very good high volume 3pt shooter, so to possibly be at best being an average NBA efficiency player should tell you his offensive game is lacking a bunch.

Gabe Vincent, who is better on defense shot a little worse than Herro while in Miami but he didn't get the shot attempts like Herro has gotten and that player was let go because he wasn't worth 11 mil a year while Herro is worth 30? I think both Herro and Vincent were helped greatly by Spoelstra.

I would take Vincent and Strus back in trade for Herro right now. Like this second.

With all this said, Herro probably would look very good in an offense like Indiana's or better yet Sacramento's. His game, his limitations just don't work in Miami or probably a lot of teams, he needs an opened-up court. One team that could take a chance on Herro would be San Antonio, if I were them, I'd consider trading for Herro if he's somewhat cheap.

No way they go for Herro. They already have Devin Vassell as there starting two guard making what Herro makes.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Those 3rd options you all are comparing to Herro are all better defenders, showed up in the playoffs, ajd were all 3 potentially key in championship runs (KP to be determined). Herro does none of those things

[3ammy3uck3ts]

After more thought Caruso/Lavine >>>>> Ingram if it’s going to be next to both Jimmy and Bam and I don’t feel it’s very close tbh. Caruso puts a Lavine deal over the top seeing as he’s an all nba defender who shoots 41% from 3 on 5 attempts.