To tank or retool?

[One_and_Done]

I assume Masai will just wait to see how good the team is, adjust accordingly, and that will retrospectively be the plan.

[Clutch0z24]

No matter how bad some people want the team to be winners next season its just highly unlikely....We can't really retool in free agency when we are not a free agent destination, and we can't really retool with trades when we lack the assets...

We are stuck in a place right now where we just let BBQ/Dick get chemistry together even if we are not a winning team we just let them 4 grow....

Gotta make the right draft picks regardless if its a top 1-8 in the draft...We need to make the right picks and build up our assets and talent.

[bluerap23]

I am curious to see the boards view?

While the topic is almost always debated, if you want a temperature check I recommend a poll. I expect the plan is to proceed with much the same team as we had last year, unless there is some crazy opportunity for trade. There are no free agents that will move the needle. If Scottie and IQ take some crazy leap we may be good. More likely we will be in the lottery.

[JL2002]

If you have OG and Pascal, you can hope to retool, should've traded Scottie for KD if your plan was to retool. If you traded OG and Pascal 2 seasons ago for future draft picks mostly, then you can tank. We are neither, Our bets now is if Scottie turns into an elite superstar, or you somehow hit on this year's weak draft AND next year's draft, otherwise we are pretty much strapped into the current BBQ core with a prayer they will become elite, or good enough to trade for an Older superstar that wants out of their team, Giannis in like 3 years when he's like 33yo we're looking at.

[deeps6x]

No matter how bad some people want the team to be winners next season its just highly unlikely....We can't really retool in free agency when we are not a free agent destination, and we can't really retool with trades when we lack the assets...

We are stuck in a place right now where we just let BBQ/Dick get chemistry together even if we are not a winning team we just let them 4 grow....

Gotta make the right draft picks regardless if its a top 1-8 in the draft...We need to make the right picks and build up our assets and talent.

They really need a C more aligned with the ages of BBQ+Dick.

I think they should trade Poeltl to Memphis, as they are in a win now situation and need a C, and Poeltl wants to be on a win now team. I think a fair deal would be salary filler plus #9 and #39 for Poeltl.

Then we could draft whatever Masai finds more attractive at #9, a SF or a backup PG, (Holland/Castle/Knecht/Williams/Salaun/McCain/Carter), take Ware or Edey at #19, take Homes or Carrington (whichever drops) at #31, then use #39 on Sandfort or Scheierman, or even on Scottie's buddy Mogbo. Hell, I would even try to trade #31 to Portland for #34 and #40, just so I could land two of these three (or possibly Djurasic/Chomche).

Give all four picks decent minutes to grow with our core of BBQ+Dick, lose enough games to get a decent 2025 pick, and the rebuild will be complete.

The 2025 draft will be so stacked that people will be going back to college and stacking the 2026 draft as well, where we will also have 2 FRPs If Masai gets things right in this draft we will be set for future success. And will retain our financial flexibility as well.

But you've gotta move Poeltl now to make it all happen. And do NOT pick up Brown's option. It effectively nets us nothing. We don't need his crap contract to make a trade that will never happen. The fans don't want to watch him. Just dump that idea now Masai. And tell your lackey reporters to stop pushing the idea.

Man, if we came out of the draft with one of McCain/Carter/Knecht at #9 (the high floor, won't bust players).

With Ware or Edey at #19

With Homes or Carrington at #31 (or if neither are available, trade down with Portland and take...)

two of Sandfort/Scheierman/Mogbo/Djurisic/Chomche ....

Well lets just say I'd be super excited to watch this team grow together. With BBQ+Dick, these players, and the three FRPs in the next two stacked drafts, we'd very likely have a very good core of 7 players that every great team needs to win in the playoffs.

[bboyskinnylegs]

this team isn't solving its problems via free agency

[deeps6x]

this team isn't solving its problems via free agency

Definitely not. Gotta build it right through the draft.

[TimeForChange]

use cap space to collect picks for the 2025 and 2026 drafts.

definitely tank for 2025.

[ForeverTFC]

use cap space to collect picks for the 2025 and 2026 drafts.

definitely tank for 2025.

What do you mean when you say tank in 2025? Tanking is purposeful. For us to tank, we'd have to trade at least one of Scottie/IQ/Barrett/Poeltl for no on-court return.

I think we are all unanimous that we want to build with Scottie and IQ. Barrett isn't in a place right now to get you a decent draft return despite his good showing with us; needs at least one more year of that and one less year on his contract before he becomes a real asset. So to tank, we would have to trade Poeltl.

I'm not against it mid-season tbh, especially if we have a prospect behind him. But I think it would be a mistake to go into the season with no C in order to up our draft stock 3-5 positions. To me, IQ learning how to run the pick and roll and Scottie continuing his defensive learnings by not having to guard Cs and being able to roam has a higher expected value than a tank that moves you up 3-5 spots at best

[ruckus]

Said it multiple times, and discussed multiple times.
BBQ + Siakam + Poeltl is barely getting us to 500, so trading Siakam is clearly not going to put us above .500.
So what exactly is the expectation for retool with BBQ where we unlikely to make the play-in.

They played in 4 games/53 minutes together. Not sure how you came to the conclusion that that 5 man lineup is barely getting them to 0.500.

But if we're making conclusions off of small sample sizes, Poeltl, Barnes, Barrett, Trent and Quickley had a Net Rating of 10.3 (119.4/109.2) in 164 minutes over 10 games. A 119.4 ORTG wouldn't been good for 3rd in the league and a 109.2 DRTG would've been good for 2nd.

So if they resign Trent, they're going to the Finals?

[Scase]

With some cap space, the Raptors have the opportunity to get a free agent or two. If they were to add an free agent or two, the Raptors would get better. Darko and a revamp roster could make the playoffs but it might be on a path to the treadmill.

If the Raps don’t get any decent names and stay the course they could maybe get a decent pick next draft yeah but being patient; will it cause damage to the core? Will the kids understand? Feel betrayed or be disappointed with leaving them to be left to their own devices?

The FO has already chosen to retool, best just get used to it now.

[Flush]

I'm not against either option but it really depends on the circumstances

Something I haven't seen mentioned anywhere and I haven't had the chance to look into it too much but how much of our coaching/development staff from the Championship year (and previous years) still remain? How much turnover have we had since those early years where our bench mob were developing because it wouldn't matter if we tanked and had a bunch of prospects on hand if we don't have a good/consistent staff that can help them with that development

[TimeForChange]

use cap space to collect picks for the 2025 and 2026 drafts.

definitely tank for 2025.

What do you mean when you say tank in 2025? Tanking is purposeful. For us to tank, we'd have to trade at least one of Scottie/IQ/Barrett/Poeltl for no on-court return.

I think we are all unanimous that we want to build with Scottie and IQ. Barrett isn't in a place right now to get you a decent draft return despite his good showing with us; needs at least one more year of that and one less year on his contract before he becomes a real asset. So to tank, we would have to trade Poeltl.

I'm not against it mid-season tbh, especially if we have a prospect behind him. But I think it would be a mistake to go into the season with no C in order to up our draft stock 3-5 positions. To me, IQ learning how to run the pick and roll and Scottie continuing his defensive learnings by not having to guard Cs and being able to roam has a higher expected value than a tank that moves you up 3-5 spots at best

trade poeltl
don't bring back gary
take on bad contracts for picks

all 3 of those guarantee a top 10 pick in 2025

[ForeverTFC]

use cap space to collect picks for the 2025 and 2026 drafts.

definitely tank for 2025.

What do you mean when you say tank in 2025? Tanking is purposeful. For us to tank, we'd have to trade at least one of Scottie/IQ/Barrett/Poeltl for no on-court return.

I think we are all unanimous that we want to build with Scottie and IQ. Barrett isn't in a place right now to get you a decent draft return despite his good showing with us; needs at least one more year of that and one less year on his contract before he becomes a real asset. So to tank, we would have to trade Poeltl.

I'm not against it mid-season tbh, especially if we have a prospect behind him. But I think it would be a mistake to go into the season with no C in order to up our draft stock 3-5 positions. To me, IQ learning how to run the pick and roll and Scottie continuing his defensive learnings by not having to guard Cs and being able to roam has a higher expected value than a tank that moves you up 3-5 spots at best

trade poeltl
don't bring back gary
take on bad contracts for picks

all 3 of those guarantee a top 10 pick in 2025

Do you think we don't get a top 10 pick with Poeltl? Unless Scottie or IQ go past expectations, I think we are already pretty much guaranteed a top 10.

I think by trading Poeltl without another a real C option, you stunt the growth of Scottie and IQ, and I would say that's not worth a couple more losses and a pick that's 2-3 spots higher.

[TimeForChange]

What do you mean when you say tank in 2025? Tanking is purposeful. For us to tank, we'd have to trade at least one of Scottie/IQ/Barrett/Poeltl for no on-court return.

I think we are all unanimous that we want to build with Scottie and IQ. Barrett isn't in a place right now to get you a decent draft return despite his good showing with us; needs at least one more year of that and one less year on his contract before he becomes a real asset. So to tank, we would have to trade Poeltl.

I'm not against it mid-season tbh, especially if we have a prospect behind him. But I think it would be a mistake to go into the season with no C in order to up our draft stock 3-5 positions. To me, IQ learning how to run the pick and roll and Scottie continuing his defensive learnings by not having to guard Cs and being able to roam has a higher expected value than a tank that moves you up 3-5 spots at best

trade poeltl
don't bring back gary
take on bad contracts for picks

all 3 of those guarantee a top 10 pick in 2025

Do you think we don't get a top 10 pick with Poeltl? Unless Scottie or IQ go past expectations, I think we are already pretty much guaranteed a top 10.

I think by trading Poeltl with a real C option, you stunt the growth of Scottie and IQ, and I would say that's not worth a couple more losses and a pick that's 2-3 spots higher.

i think the 2025 draft is very top heavy and I would do as much as I could to secure a top 10 pick.

i agree, even with poeltl they are a lotto team but I think about 1/2 way through the season we will see a lot of teams begin their tanks

[aminiaturebuddha]

Said it multiple times, and discussed multiple times.
BBQ + Siakam + Poeltl is barely getting us to 500, so trading Siakam is clearly not going to put us above .500.
So what exactly is the expectation for retool with BBQ where we unlikely to make the play-in.

BBQ + Siakam + Poeltl played in exactly 4 games together (and were 3-1). I'm not sure that's really enough of a sample size to determine what kind of a record they would have had over a season. A 4-game sample size shouldn't be a starting point for a discussion on that issue.

[WuTang_CMB]

Let the chips fall

[dohboy_24]

RE-TOOL.

Given the prospects we are developing, veterans we have in place and positional needs for the future, there is an opportunity to sell the assets we have who don't necessarily fit the same timeline as our core or currently occupy positions that will be replaced within the next few seasons.

CORE FOUR:
Guard - Immanuel Quickly
Guard - Gradey Dick
Wing - RJ Barrett
Forward - Scottie Barnes

VET C's: Jakob Poeltl & Kelly Olynyk

KEY BENCH PLAYERS:
Guards - Bruce Brown
Wings - Ochai Agbaji, Jalen McDaniels
Forwards - Chris Boucher

Since Yak, Bruce Brown, and Chris Boucher aren't going to help the Raptors make the playoffs or win a playoff series and they have more value to teams who will be making playoff runs in the same manner as OG for the Knicks and Spicy P for the Pacers, I expect them to be traded between now and the start of the season rather than wait until the trade deadline to allow the impending team to have a full season of development together rather than the turmoil of in-season moves.

Similar to the OG and Pascal trades we're likely to receive contract fillers, young prospects and/or future draft picks in exchange for Yak, Bruce Brown and Chris Boucher, but whomever they might be, the team they form will likely end up winning 30% to 40% of its games and end up back in the lottery for the 2025 draft - hopefully with a top 10 pick.

Considering the alternative would be making the play-in tournament and falling outside the top 10 of the draft to the back end of the lottery, I don't see the value in waiting until the season begins to make moves that will ultimately need to be made before the start of next season if we're truly committed to the long-term development and growth of Barnes, RJ, IQ, and Dick.

[Dyehardrapsfan]

How to add poll to this subject?

[Pointgod]

Let’s look at the teams in the finals and their best players.

Luka - #3 overall pick
Kyrie- #1 overall pick
Tatum - #3 overall pick
Brown - #3 overall pick

Let’s look at last year - an anomaly for sure but

Jokic - 41st pick
Murray - 7th pick
Gordon - 4th pick

Butler -30th pick
Bam - 14th pick

Pretty obvious that you need high end talent just to get in the conversation in this league and the easiest way to get it is in the draft. All it takes to develop players is to give them minutes, no one says those minutes have to go to vets to develop as a team.