Official Trade Thread Part XLVI

[nate33]

Is there any way to trade Poole to Minnesota?

As preposterous as this sounds, is there any trade feasible involving Poole and Kuzma for Towns? Karl Anthony Towns is definitely overpaid, but I think with Vukcevic being an elite shooter and passer that they could instantly be a decent front court.

I don't like KAT that much, but I think he's a good buy low at the moment.

He may be buy low, but he is not buy THAT low!

[payitforward]

The Giddey/OKC situation is a perfect example of how good organizations operate. It would be organizational malpractice to let Giddey sabotage another playoff run. So the chances of Giddey getting an extension are next to none. Not after he was reduced to a bench player against the Mavs. The Mavs series drastically reduced to the trade value for Giddey. Over. the course of 7 games he's gone from a succesful draft pick who's still working on their jumper to disappointing draft pick who will not get an extension.

Regardless of the data set you dig up, the reality is that OKC - the team that sees him day-in and day-out, had so little faith in him that they benched him. They thought he was such a detriment to winning that they'd be better off benching him and destroying his trade value than playing him. Of course people on this board can't make sense of a reality where a team would rather have Kuzma than Giddey.

You can already here the frustated stammers, "Giddey's a better player look at the stats." Ignoring the fact that "better" in this situation is not an objective deterimination but rather based on the preconceived way they see the game. Nevertheless, OKC is simply trying to find a player who fits their current roster best. Fit is determined from both a money perspective, a skillset perspective, a personality perspective and an availability perspective.

Perhaps there are other players who would be better fits than Kuzma...but are they available? Are they on an affordable contract? If OKC thinks that Kuzma fits their team why wouldn't they trade 2 first round picks and Giddey? They have like a bajillion first round picks. They clearly can't use them all. And the roster is ready to win now. I've read reports that the Mavs were willing to give up two first round picks for Kuz. So yes, I stand by my initial statement.

Of course by now I don't remember what your initial statement was!

Wait...! I do remember -- & I would still rather you were right than I.

OTOH, I'm pretty sure that what Sam Presti says about Giddey is closer to reality than what you write here -- take a look & tell us what you think: https://www.si.com/nba/thunder/news/sam-presti-assesses-josh-giddey-s-performance-and-future-in-oklahoma-city-01hz123a0cd8

Of course Presti would say that. He doesn't want to diminish Giddey's trade value nor does he want to hurt his confidence in the event he remains in OKC....

Fair enough. But, it also makes sense; it's also a far more likely way of assessing a 21 year old player (who has been terrific in many ways) after an "up and down season."

Fact is that OKC has a greater need for Kuz's size and rebounding than they do for Giddey.... I actually think that OKC would give us Giddey and a late first round pick (or future first round pick) for Kuz.

Hey, may it be so! & if so, may it happen... soon!

[Ed Wood]

The sample sizes and dynamics of the playoffs can result in distorted narratives about players that I think most NBA organizations know better than to pay much attention to, but the issues with Giddey go somewhat beyond that - teams really were aggressively altering their defensive schemes in ways that hurt the Thunder pretty badly because of his limitations. That said, he's still very young and even if his offensive numbers are probably benefiting from the quality of the team around him and the relative lack of emphasis on him in defensive schemes, he's shown a lot already. So I kind of can't wrap my head around the discussions of his being traded with further incentive for Kuzma. Kuz has his own strengths and a solid value contract, but that just seems so short term focused when I wouldn't have any degree of confidence from OKC's perspective that Kuzma's contributions are really elevating that roster in a very impactful way.

That said, while I tend to think Giddey would be a pretty terrible fit with the rest of the more important developmental pieces on Washington's roster, that seems like too much value not to take a flyer on when the roster still isn't that deep in exciting building blocks despite better than expected recent progress.

[Ed Wood]

Trading KAT for two players who are much worse and don't seem to solve any problems is pretty incomprehensible to me. I don't necessarily think KAT is a problem that needs solving in the roster, but even if so I don't think that does and that would be some pretty intense operational malfeasance.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Trading KAT for two players who are much worse and don't seem to solve any problems is pretty incomprehensible to me. I don't necessarily think KAT is a problem that needs solving in the roster, but even if so I don't think that does and that would be some pretty intense operational malfeasance.

I think somehow sending them Poole could help.

I agree that trade sucked for Minnesota.

[Ed Wood]

A small part of me does also kind of balk at the idea of trading Poole - something that seems hard to do without really eating it - because he really was not the force for evil toward the end of the year that the general narrative about him maintains he was and (1) I do feel for him at least a little and that I think he's being done a little dirty in the degree to which he's viewed as a toxic asset and (2) I may be a fool to think so, but if there actually is an upside in retaining him which involves his being halfway decent it's so hard to imagine any trade that could possibly approach that outcome.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Okay. I know this will get killed, but here goes:

Draft Sarr.

Trade Sarr, Poole, Kuzma
For
Towns and a 2025 pick.

Why or why not?

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Brainstorming involves throwing everything out there .

Might take 1000 misses to get one hit.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I think the Wizards are a C and a PF from being a playoff team. They already have enough on the wings.

They're young. I'd rather not see young players brought up in a culture of losing. Instead of once again tanking, I think they should try to acquire a winner at both C and PF, in addition to drafting well.

[Ed Wood]

I'm definitely not upset to have all of the material to consider. Re: the second trade idea - the picks help me understand why the Wolves would consider the move, but I don't really think the Wizards are just a couple of players away from real relevance unless those players are going to be the best on the roster and probably by a margin (which Townes probably would be). I don't put a lot of stock in the idea of a losing culture if the team has a professional culture and I don't think having an all-nba player necessarily elevates the team or changes the trajectory of the roster except to get it back to some first round exits from the playoffs. The odds that Sarr will ever be as good as the next couple of years of KAT are quite remote, but I have a much easier time foreseeing an arc to improvement involving finding more core components by taking the opportunity to see if Sarr can be the defensive synergy piece to help create a strong defensive team identity along side Deni and Bilal if the team can add him.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

I’ve advocated for Jovic and that exact deal on a number of occasions. Sign me up.

15 gives you a great shot at our guy, Dadiet.

So I'm curious, how highly do you rate Jovic?

Would you do Jovic, Robinson, 15 for Kuzma & 26?

I'd want to work in a 3rd team to flip Robinson, like San Antonio for pick 35.

In that scenario, it would be essentially Kuzma for picks 15 & 35. And pick 26 for Jovic.

[NatP4]

I’ve advocated for Jovic and that exact deal on a number of occasions. Sign me up.

15 gives you a great shot at our guy, Dadiet.

So I'm curious, how highly do you rate Jovic?

Would you do Jovic, Robinson, 15 for Kuzma & 26?

I'd want to work in a 3rd team to flip Robinson, like San Antonio for pick 35.

In that scenario, it would be essentially Kuzma for picks 15 & 35. And pick 26 for Jovic.

I rate Jovic similarly to Avdija minus the team friendly extension. He was first on the Heat in On/Off differential (above Jimmy Butler), and ranked 4th in EPM among U21 players in the entire league behind only Wemby/Lively/Amen Thompson. Was starting on a playoff team at 20 years old.

Per 36: 14.1 points 7.7 rebounds 3.6 assists 1.0 steals 0.6 blocks 1.7 turnovers on 58.3% TS. Transformed his 3pt shot from 23% as a rookie, to 40% on 6.5 attempts this season.

He’s a terrific young player and another good example of elite talent from Serbia and the ABA league. So yes, I would do that deal.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

I’ve advocated for Jovic and that exact deal on a number of occasions. Sign me up.

15 gives you a great shot at our guy, Dadiet.

So I'm curious, how highly do you rate Jovic?

Would you do Jovic, Robinson, 15 for Kuzma & 26?

I'd want to work in a 3rd team to flip Robinson, like San Antonio for pick 35.

In that scenario, it would be essentially Kuzma for picks 15 & 35. And pick 26 for Jovic.

I rate Jovic similarly to Avdija minus the team friendly extension. He was first on the Heat in On/Off differential (above Jimmy Butler), and ranked 4th in EPM among U21 players in the entire league behind only Wemby/Lively/Amen Thompson. Was starting on a playoff team at 20 years old.

Per 36: 14.1 points 7.7 rebounds 3.6 assists 1.0 steals 0.6 blocks 1.7 turnovers on 58.3% TS. Transformed his 3pt shot from 23% as a rookie, to 40% on 6.5 attempts this season.

He’s a terrific young player and another good example of elite talent from Serbia and the ABA league. So yes, I would do that deal.

I could be very happy with a Sarr (2), Dadiet (15), Cam Christie (35), Zacharie Perrin (51) + Jovic outcome to this draft.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/8782581

Potential roster foundation:
C - Sarr, Vukcevic, Bagley
PF- Jovic, Baldwin, Perrin
SF- Avdija, Dadiet
SG- Coulibaly, Kispert, Christie
PG- Poole, Butler

[gambitx777]

Would anyone be down to try and extort LA.
Take bronny at 52. Tell LA give us 56 and two more seconds or we'll let this kid rot in Europe lol.

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[nate33]

Okay. I know this will get killed, but here goes:

Draft Sarr.

Trade Sarr, Poole, Kuzma
For
Towns and a 2025 pick.

Why or why not?

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The Wizards are rebuilding. They won 15 games last year. Let's generously assume that Towns would add another 15 wins to that total. But still, that's just a 30-win team. So you have just removed two future lotto picks from a 30-win team while saddling them with a $55M a year contract for the next 4 years. How exactly do you propose that the Wizards improve from 30 wins a year with no draft picks and no cap room until 2026?

It's honestly one of the worst idea's I've ever seen.

[Frichuela]

I’ve advocated for Jovic and that exact deal on a number of occasions. Sign me up.

15 gives you a great shot at our guy, Dadiet.

So I'm curious, how highly do you rate Jovic?

Would you do Jovic, Robinson, 15 for Kuzma & 26?

I'd want to work in a 3rd team to flip Robinson, like San Antonio for pick 35.

In that scenario, it would be essentially Kuzma for picks 15 & 35. And pick 26 for Jovic.

I rate Jovic similarly to Avdija minus the team friendly extension. He was first on the Heat in On/Off differential (above Jimmy Butler), and ranked 4th in EPM among U21 players in the entire league behind only Wemby/Lively/Amen Thompson. Was starting on a playoff team at 20 years old.

Per 36: 14.1 points 7.7 rebounds 3.6 assists 1.0 steals 0.6 blocks 1.7 turnovers on 58.3% TS. Transformed his 3pt shot from 23% as a rookie, to 40% on 6.5 attempts this season.

He’s a terrific young player and another good example of elite talent from Serbia and the ABA league. So yes, I would do that deal.

I wonder if our front office could convince Miami to part with Robinson+Jovic+15 for Kuzma and then trade Robinson + #26 to Chicago for the corpse of Lonzo Ball +#11.

In this scenario, we would end up with #2, #11 and #15...

[prime1time]

So I'm curious, how highly do you rate Jovic?

Would you do Jovic, Robinson, 15 for Kuzma & 26?

I'd want to work in a 3rd team to flip Robinson, like San Antonio for pick 35.

In that scenario, it would be essentially Kuzma for picks 15 & 35. And pick 26 for Jovic.

I rate Jovic similarly to Avdija minus the team friendly extension. He was first on the Heat in On/Off differential (above Jimmy Butler), and ranked 4th in EPM among U21 players in the entire league behind only Wemby/Lively/Amen Thompson. Was starting on a playoff team at 20 years old.

Per 36: 14.1 points 7.7 rebounds 3.6 assists 1.0 steals 0.6 blocks 1.7 turnovers on 58.3% TS. Transformed his 3pt shot from 23% as a rookie, to 40% on 6.5 attempts this season.

He’s a terrific young player and another good example of elite talent from Serbia and the ABA league. So yes, I would do that deal.

I wonder if our front office could convince Miami to part with Robinson+Jovic+15 for Kuzma and then trade Robinson + #26 to Chicago for the corpse of Lonzo Ball +#11.

In this scenario, we would end up with #2, #11 and #15...

Why would Chicago want Robinson? Miami is probably going to hold off on trading anything until it's clear that they can't get one of the major stars on the market.

[Jay81]

Brainstorming involves throwing everything out there .

Might take 1000 misses to get one hit.

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sorta like Morris Almonds shooting %

[Frichuela]

I rate Jovic similarly to Avdija minus the team friendly extension. He was first on the Heat in On/Off differential (above Jimmy Butler), and ranked 4th in EPM among U21 players in the entire league behind only Wemby/Lively/Amen Thompson. Was starting on a playoff team at 20 years old.

Per 36: 14.1 points 7.7 rebounds 3.6 assists 1.0 steals 0.6 blocks 1.7 turnovers on 58.3% TS. Transformed his 3pt shot from 23% as a rookie, to 40% on 6.5 attempts this season.

He’s a terrific young player and another good example of elite talent from Serbia and the ABA league. So yes, I would do that deal.

I wonder if our front office could convince Miami to part with Robinson+Jovic+15 for Kuzma and then trade Robinson + #26 to Chicago for the corpse of Lonzo Ball +#11.

In this scenario, we would end up with #2, #11 and #15...

Why would Chicago want Robinson? Miami is probably going to hold off on trading anything until it's clear that they can't get one of the major stars on the market.

Chicago was the 20th in 3pt percentage last season and they lack wings. Perhaps they are keen to dump the corpse of Ball for a proven 3pt threat at the wing for the cost of swapping #11 for #26. Robinson was quite good last season.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Okay. I know this will get killed, but here goes:

Draft Sarr.

Trade Sarr, Poole, Kuzma
For
Towns and a 2025 pick.

Why or why not?

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The Wizards are rebuilding. They won 15 games last year. Let's generously assume that Towns would add another 15 wins to that total. But still, that's just a 30-win team. So you have just removed two future lotto picks from a 30-win team while saddling them with a $55M a year contract for the next 4 years. How exactly do you propose that the Wizards improve from 30 wins a year with no draft picks and no cap room until 2026?

It's honestly one of the worst idea's I've ever seen.

Sarr for a 2025 pick and Towns for Poole and Kuzma is the worst idea?

How do you know this year wouldn't be yet another lottery year?

Also, what about the extra pick in next season's strong draft?

I don't understand how this removes two future lottery picks.

I didn't consider it wrecking the cap.

After all these years, I still don't know crap about the cap. When it comes to me understanding the salary cap, it's like Dexter Manley having a copy of the Wall Street Journal in his face.



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