2024 Playoffs Discussion Thread 2

[ATLTimekeeper]

17/12 per 48 isn't great and functionally there's no versatility. It's not a good 3rd option. Lively and Gafford are finishers. They aren't 'options.' If the Mavs need a bucket the 3rd most trustworthy guy on that team is PJ Washington. If the Celtics need a bucket it's Jrue Holiday. Then it's Porzingis. Then it's White. Then it's Horford. Then it's Pritchard. Washington is closer to Pritchard in terms of being able to create an advantage for himself or his teammates with the ball. Lively and Gafford might be the 3rd/4th most "important" Mavs, much like Gobert was the most important Timberwolf, but the offense has to go through other players in order for them to be activated. This Mavs team stands little chance. It's just the west was not that strong this year. OKC was overrated and exposed as a one man team. Denver cheaped out on vets and lost their depth. MInnesota was like Dallas, they had 2 guys that can get buckets and then their 3rd option was 36 year old Mike Conley.

Dallas won't be able to get enough stops against Boston.

Do you really need PJ Washington to get a bucket for you though when you have possibly the most versatile offensive player in the league in Luka? Then you got Kyrie.

I'm not sure why he's even approaching the game like that. Why are you isoing your 3rd best player? Like you said if the Mavs ever need a bucket they're going to Luka n Kyrie. If they're getting doubled, then it's 4-3 after the pass is made.
I also disagree that 17/12 3blks per 48 is just meh, if a player avgs 17/12 n 3 blks a game they're gonna make hundreds of millions dollars.

We'll see soon enough tho

What player averages 48 minutes? If someone averaged 17/12/3blks in 32 minutes or whatever a typical C averages, then yeah. He's a rich man.

Approach the game like it's played by humans. They get tired, and when your entire offense is just two guys doing all the creating, it's exhausting and there will be lapses. That's why good teams tend to be loaded with past prime former big name players. In small bursts, a stick-a-fork-in-him Richard Jefferson can break a lull by getting a bucket.

[JB7]

Guys like PJ, Lively, Gafford or Jones Jr. don’t need to create offence themselves. With players like Luka and Kyrie, they just need to finish, whether that is hitting an open 3, or finishing a lob.

The Mavs have beat the LAC, OKC and Minny, all teams that have been thought of as contenders at some point this season.

I think the media are sticking to the Celtics for now because of the season record, but that will change quickly after the first couple of games.

Those teams are all 'contenders' because someone literally has to represent the west. They beat one good team, in Minnesota. OKC was exposed as having one scoring option in Shai. LAC was missing Kawhi. Minnesota was a legit rep from the West due to their defense, but they weren't a good offensive team. The Mavs are a little better on offense than the Wolves, but much worse defensively. And when the Mavs put in their defenders, they drop on offense.

Outside of Denver, the Mavs went through the best teams in a clearly superior Western conference. Any one of those teams would have been the 2nd best team in the East, and if healthy, they could have beaten the Celtics.

Celtics have not faced any real competition yet in the playoffs. Let’s see how they do against a real team.

The one advantage they might have had was if the finals started sooner, but this break will allow Luka to rest even more, which is not good news for the Celtics.

[DreamTeam09]

Guys like PJ, Lively, Gafford or Jones Jr. don’t need to create offence themselves. With players like Luka and Kyrie, they just need to finish, whether that is hitting an open 3, or finishing a lob.

The Mavs have beat the LAC, OKC and Minny, all teams that have been thought of as contenders at some point this season.

I think the media are sticking to the Celtics for now because of the season record, but that will change quickly after the first couple of games.

Those teams are all 'contenders' because someone literally has to represent the west. They beat one good team, in Minnesota. OKC was exposed as having one scoring option in Shai. LAC was missing Kawhi. Minnesota was a legit rep from the West due to their defense, but they weren't a good offensive team. The Mavs are a little better on offense than the Wolves, but much worse defensively. And when the Mavs put in their defenders, they drop on offense.

Outside of Denver, the Mavs went through the best teams in a clearly superior Western conference. Any one of those teams would have been the 2nd best team in the East, and if healthy, they could have beaten the Celtics.

Celtics have not faced any real competition yet in the playoffs. Let’s see how they do against a real team.

The one advantage they might have had was if the finals started sooner, but this break will allow Luka to rest even more, which is not good news for the Celtics.

When the Mavs put in their best defenders their offense drops, their starting lineup is their best defensive lineup that actually plays. Or if they sub in lively. lol when the Mavs go to their bench it's for a 3rd ball-handler in Exum or Hardy, or 3+D in green or maxi. Or maybe for some offensive shooting in THJ.
I see everyone is taking the bigger names & contracts that's on Boston, which is understandable, team wise I don't think they're as connected as the Mavs at the moment

[Pointgod]

Lively is an 8/7 player in these playoffs, shoots 50% from the FT line and yet plays crunch time minutes. We were told on here that Poeltl is unplayable in the playoffs. lol.

Like you said in your later post, it's about fit. Lively fits the team that Dallas has, particularly with a superstar in Doncic and star in Irving.

Poeltl is untested with our current roster in the playoffs. And may remain untested for at least another season or two lol. Oh well, at least we saw what he could do with SA in 2019 and our team with DD and Lowry in 2017 and 2018.

Oh yeah Lively is the better fit but Poeltl and Lively share a similar weakness in that they can’t hit FTs. Lively has played in 4th quarters and has played very well. And lively isn’t as good as Poeltl…right now.

You’re seriously comparing a rookie to a 9 year vet lol. Lively raised his game in the playoffs and if I’m not mistaken was leading his team in plus minus before he was injured. Even if you don’t believe that Lively is better than Poeltl now, the majority of teams would take Lively because of his athleticism, he’s already an elite lob threat, can develop into an elite pick and roll player and has yet to unlock his passing which is probably the most underrated part of his game. Even if they were both the same age, the Lively archetype just fits what more teams need from a Center while Poeltl would do well on a team like Phoenix who play at a slower pace and are mostly a jump shooting team.

[mdenny]

This playoff has been very very bad for the nba. Worst one in recent memory.

I find it strange that noone is talking about the elephant In the room: injuries.

The NBA doesn't want ppl to talk about it so that's why you won't hear about it on the main media outlets. Why aren't ppl even talking about that on this board? Ppl talk about what the nba wants them to talk about.

I can't pretend that I have any theories. But i watched a podcast with kevin garnett and paul pierce who both had VERY strong opinions on it. It's notable that they aren't beholden to the league in any way too.

Anyone else see it? They said that the teams don't scrimmage, they don't play 3 on 3, they don't play 1 on 1 during practise. The entirety of what they now call 'practise' are individual drills performed by individual trainers.

Apparently this is connected to what alot of NBA vets are saying behind the scenes about basketball development in the USA. From the time they are 14 and 15 years old.....young prospects are taken out of team practices by agent scouts and are put into regiments of individual skill training. No focus on actually producing wins for a high-school or college team. They are golden gooses that are prepped for nba....essentially skipping past all the game-play experience it takes to learn how to play fundamental ball.

Garnett and Peirce said that during their time...scrimmages were the most important part of practise time. Also....players would consistently challenge each other to one on one's. It was a matter of pride in camp and in practices. (They also did alot of betting)

So would scrimmages make a difference in injuries? There is an argument that's says if all you do in practise is drills that perfect footwork/getting to your spot....well you aren't accustomed to the chaos of real game play. Loose balls create chaos. Sharp turns and sudden movements that aren't simulated in repetitive drills. Avoiding dangerous landing spots. Gamesmanship and reading the floor.

Another aspect of this issue is player power. If none of the teams are holding scrimmages and players are allowed to focus on their individual drills run by trainers....what happens if a coach insists on scrimmages? Do players say "the scrimmage isn't gonna help my step back 3 drill that opens up my future earnings".

It's also been said that this same trend (no scrimmages/no gameplay) is offered up as a reason for why so many non-american players are starting to dominate the league too.

I don't know if there's any truth to this stuff....but it seems to me highly unlikely that the league has NOT mandated it's affiliated media outlets to stay quiet about the issue of injuries. That means all the major podcasts.

I mean....this playoff has been unprecedented regarding injuries. Why is noone talking about it on a macro level?

It would be very simple. Take the top 100 money makers in the league and add up how many games they missed. Compare it to previous seasons.

Joel embiid
Giannis
Dame
Haliburton
Zion
Kawhi
Donovan mitchell
Randle
OG (doesn't really count)
Porzingus
Butler
Brunson
Jarret Allen
Levert
Rozier
Josh Richardson
Jamie Jaquez Jr
Mathurin
Mitchell Robinson
Bogdanovic
Tim Hardaway Jr
Caldwell-pope



I'm sure I'm forgetting some guys too. Ypu could make 3 contending squads with that list lol

[JB7]

This playoff has been very very bad for the nba. Worst one in recent memory.

I find it strange that noone is talking about the elephant In the room: injuries.

The NBA doesn't want ppl to talk about it so that's why you won't hear about it on the main media outlets. Why aren't ppl even talking about that on this board? Ppl talk about what the nba wants them to talk about.

I can't pretend that I have any theories. But i watched a podcast with kevin garnett and paul pierce who both had VERY strong opinions on it. It's notable that they aren't beholden to the league in any way too.

Anyone else see it? They said that the teams don't scrimmage, they don't play 3 on 3, they don't play 1 on 1 during practise. The entirety of what they now call 'practise' are individual drills performed by individual trainers.

Apparently this is connected to what alot of NBA vets are saying behind the scenes about basketball development in the USA. From the time they are 14 and 15 years old.....young prospects are taken out of team practices by agent scouts and are put into regiments of individual skill training. No focus on actually producing wins for a high-school or college team. They are golden gooses that are prepped for nba....essentially skipping past all the game-play experience it takes to learn how to play fundamental ball.

Garnett and Peirce said that during their time...scrimmages were the most important part of practise time. Also....players would consistently challenge each other to one on one's. It was a matter of pride in camp and in practices. (They also did alot of betting)

So would scrimmages make a difference in injuries? There is an argument that's says if all you do in practise is drills that perfect footwork/getting to your spot....well you aren't accustomed to the chaos of real game play. Loose balls create chaos. Sharp turns and sudden movements that aren't simulated in repetitive drills. Avoiding dangerous landing spots. Gamesmanship and reading the floor.

Another aspect of this issue is player power. If none of the teams are holding scrimmages and players are allowed to focus on their individual drills run by trainers....what happens if a coach insists on scrimmages? Do players say "the scrimmage isn't gonna help my step back 3 drill that opens up my future earnings".

It's also been said that this same trend (no scrimmages/no gameplay) is offered up as a reason for why so many non-american players are starting to dominate the league too.

I don't know if there's any truth to this stuff....but it seems to me highly unlikely that the league has NOT mandated it's affiliated media outlets to stay quiet about the issue of injuries. That means all the major podcasts.

I mean....this playoff has been unprecedented regarding injuries. Why is noone talking about it on a macro level?

It would be very simple. Take the top 100 money makers in the league and add up how many games they missed. Compare it to previous seasons.

Joel embiid
Giannis
Dame
Haliburton
Zion
Kawhi
Donovan mitchell
Randle
OG (doesn't really count)
Porzingus
Butler
Brunson
Jarret Allen
Levert
Rozier
Josh Richardson
Jamie Jaquez Jr
Mathurin
Mitchell Robinson
Bogdanovic
Tim Hardaway Jr
Caldwell-pope



I'm sure I'm forgetting some guys too. Ypu could make 3 contending squads with that list lol

I have heard a few podcasts talk about injuries this year, but the link they make is to the new 65 game rule for awards (usual financial incentives in contracts). I think they have not talked much about it because the league imposed the 65 game rule to get players into more season games, along with the in season tournament to sell the tv rights. So for this year, because the negotiation on the tv deals was before the playoffs, I guess the league was prepared to sacrifice the playoffs for better season attendance by the players.