Post Mortem 2023-24

[JonFromVA]

Source: Koby Altman's public press conference

If you click on the link, it sounds like this is coming from other teams. Now, maybe those teams are making lowball offers and the Cavs are simply shutting down discussions as a result.

or this is just a tactic to increase trade value for these guys to make it seem like a much better offer is needed to make us even listen

Or Koby is on vacation and he's not taking trade calls ...

First order of business should be to figure out who the coach is going to be and then they can start making decisions based on how they'd like the team to run. If they want to talk to JJ or there's a candidate that wants to hear back from the Lakers before deciding, they are going to have to wait for the finals to wrap.

Albeit we should be able to interview Micah Nori, now, but I suppose the question then is what was he doing while the Timberwolves melted down to the Mavs?

[toooskies]

If you click on the link, it sounds like this is coming from other teams. Now, maybe those teams are making lowball offers and the Cavs are simply shutting down discussions as a result.

or this is just a tactic to increase trade value for these guys to make it seem like a much better offer is needed to make us even listen

Or Koby is on vacation and he's not taking trade calls ...

First order of business should be to figure out who the coach is going to be and then they can start making decisions based on how they'd like the team to run. If they want to talk to JJ or there's a candidate that wants to hear back from the Lakers before deciding, they are going to have to wait for the finals to wrap.

Albeit we should be able to interview Micah Nori, now, but I suppose the question then is what was he doing while the Timberwolves melted down to the Mavs?

Draft prep too. NBA vacation isn't until late July/early August.

Assistants interview even while their teams are still playing, and both Dallas and Boston have long breaks where we could talk to their guys.

[JonFromVA]

or this is just a tactic to increase trade value for these guys to make it seem like a much better offer is needed to make us even listen

Or Koby is on vacation and he's not taking trade calls ...

First order of business should be to figure out who the coach is going to be and then they can start making decisions based on how they'd like the team to run. If they want to talk to JJ or there's a candidate that wants to hear back from the Lakers before deciding, they are going to have to wait for the finals to wrap.

Albeit we should be able to interview Micah Nori, now, but I suppose the question then is what was he doing while the Timberwolves melted down to the Mavs?

Draft prep too. NBA vacation isn't until late July/early August.

Assistants interview even while their teams are still playing, and both Dallas and Boston have long breaks where we could talk to their guys.

He literally took that weekend off, not much of a vacation, but you take what you can.

The thing is if these decisions all hinge on Mitchell, we may tread water until he can put pen to paper. You'd hope they could move forward without his consent and then sell him on their vision, but we're not run by a Pat Riley.

[JujitsuFlip]

https://clutchpoints.com/nba-rumors-cavs-stance-isaac-okoro-could-potentially-breakup

Idk how i feel about matching an offer sheet of $14 million AAV for Okoro.

[JonFromVA]

https://clutchpoints.com/nba-rumors-cavs-stance-isaac-okoro-could-potentially-breakup

Idk how i feel about matching an offer sheet of $14 million AAV for Okoro.

Well, in the context of a rising cap, a player who defends, who's shooting has improved and is still not in his prime ... perhaps not so bad.

Plus we can talk trade if someone really likes him.

[JujitsuFlip]

It also sucks that the Cavs can't extend Mitchell until July 6th. The draft and most of the big free agent moves will be done by then.

Edit: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39867627/nba-offseason-2024-schedule-deadlines-contract-details-all-30-teams

[jbk1234]

It also sucks that the Cavs can't extend Mitchell until July 6th. The draft and most of the big free agent moves will be done by then.

Edit: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39867627/nba-offseason-2024-schedule-deadlines-contract-details-all-30-teams

I see not being able to take back players from this draft as a good thing.

[JujitsuFlip]

It also sucks that the Cavs can't extend Mitchell until July 6th. The draft and most of the big free agent moves will be done by then.

Edit: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39867627/nba-offseason-2024-schedule-deadlines-contract-details-all-30-teams

I see not being able to take back players from this draft as a good thing.

Meh.

The entire bulk of the off-season being completed before the Cavs know if Mitchell is an expiring or signed for $200 million can't be spun as a good thing, in any regard.

[jbk1234]

It also sucks that the Cavs can't extend Mitchell until July 6th. The draft and most of the big free agent moves will be done by then.

Edit: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39867627/nba-offseason-2024-schedule-deadlines-contract-details-all-30-teams

I see not being able to take back players from this draft as a good thing.

Meh.

The entire bulk of the off-season being completed before the Cavs know if Mitchell is an expiring or signed for $200 million can't be spun as a good thing, in any regard.

There isn't a realistic outcome where we have cap space and the thing about the big free agents coming off the board is that those players are no longer an option for potential trade partners. If we end up trading Allen, teams can no longer tell themselves they can just sign Hartenstein or Claxton. They'll already be signed.

[JujitsuFlip]

I see not being able to take back players from this draft as a good thing.

Meh.

The entire bulk of the off-season being completed before the Cavs know if Mitchell is an expiring or signed for $200 million can't be spun as a good thing, in any regard.

There isn't a realistic outcome where we have cap space and the thing about the big free agents coming off the board is that those players are no longer an option for potential trade partners. If we end up trading Allen, teams can no longer tell themselves they can just sign Hartenstein or Claxton. They'll already be signed.

Sure but it would be nice to know who to draft, who to use the MLE on, who to let walk or trade (looking at Okoro and Bates), and who to hire as the next head coach.

[jbk1234]

Meh.

The entire bulk of the off-season being completed before the Cavs know if Mitchell is an expiring or signed for $200 million can't be spun as a good thing, in any regard.

There isn't a realistic outcome where we have cap space and the thing about the big free agents coming off the board is that those players are no longer an option for potential trade partners. If we end up trading Allen, teams can no longer tell themselves they can just sign Hartenstein or Claxton. They'll already be signed.

Sure but it would be nice to know who to draft, who to use the MLE on, who to let walk or trade (looking at Okoro and Bates), and who to hire as the next head coach.

I feel like the pick at 20 really shouldn't change. If there's a decent big or SF with size, take him. Okoro should get the Q.O. If he gets an offer sheet, the clock starts the same day Mitchell can sign, but really, if it's more than the MLE, it shouldn't matter. He's just so limited offensively, I don't know how you match it.

[toooskies]

Meh.

The entire bulk of the off-season being completed before the Cavs know if Mitchell is an expiring or signed for $200 million can't be spun as a good thing, in any regard.

There isn't a realistic outcome where we have cap space and the thing about the big free agents coming off the board is that those players are no longer an option for potential trade partners. If we end up trading Allen, teams can no longer tell themselves they can just sign Hartenstein or Claxton. They'll already be signed.

Sure but it would be nice to know who to draft, who to use the MLE on, who to let walk or trade (looking at Okoro and Bates), and who to hire as the next head coach.

The Cavs can talk to Mitchell about an extension as soon as the Finals end and come to an agreement then, even if it is not officially signed until July 6th. (Source: Windhorst on various outlets)

[jbk1234]

There isn't a realistic outcome where we have cap space and the thing about the big free agents coming off the board is that those players are no longer an option for potential trade partners. If we end up trading Allen, teams can no longer tell themselves they can just sign Hartenstein or Claxton. They'll already be signed.

Sure but it would be nice to know who to draft, who to use the MLE on, who to let walk or trade (looking at Okoro and Bates), and who to hire as the next head coach.

The Cavs can talk to Mitchell about an extension as soon as the Finals end and come to an agreement then, even if it is not officially signed until July 6th. (Source: Windhorst on various outlets)

Sure, but I'm probably waiting until it's actually signed.

[toooskies]

There isn't a realistic outcome where we have cap space and the thing about the big free agents coming off the board is that those players are no longer an option for potential trade partners. If we end up trading Allen, teams can no longer tell themselves they can just sign Hartenstein or Claxton. They'll already be signed.

Sure but it would be nice to know who to draft, who to use the MLE on, who to let walk or trade (looking at Okoro and Bates), and who to hire as the next head coach.

I feel like the pick at 20 really shouldn't change. If there's a decent big or SF with size, take him. Okoro should get the Q.O. If he gets an offer sheet, the clock starts the same day Mitchell can sign, but really, if it's more than the MLE, it shouldn't matter. He's just so limited offensively, I don't know how you match it.

Because $14m is pretty affordable for a guy you can have in your playoff rotation and spot start, even if you see no development moving forward. (A new coach might unlock him better on the offensive end, though.)

But if you won't match $14m, do you even offer the $12.7m QO for the rights to match an offer?

[JujitsuFlip]

There isn't a realistic outcome where we have cap space and the thing about the big free agents coming off the board is that those players are no longer an option for potential trade partners. If we end up trading Allen, teams can no longer tell themselves they can just sign Hartenstein or Claxton. They'll already be signed.

Sure but it would be nice to know who to draft, who to use the MLE on, who to let walk or trade (looking at Okoro and Bates), and who to hire as the next head coach.

The Cavs can talk to Mitchell about an extension as soon as the Finals end and come to an agreement then, even if it is not officially signed until July 6th. (Source: Windhorst on various outlets)

Are you positive about this? He's not a pending free agent, so there is some ambiguity there.

If you have a link to Windy saying/writing he can begin discussing his extension like he is a pending FA, please link it.

[jbk1234]

Sure but it would be nice to know who to draft, who to use the MLE on, who to let walk or trade (looking at Okoro and Bates), and who to hire as the next head coach.

I feel like the pick at 20 really shouldn't change. If there's a decent big or SF with size, take him. Okoro should get the Q.O. If he gets an offer sheet, the clock starts the same day Mitchell can sign, but really, if it's more than the MLE, it shouldn't matter. He's just so limited offensively, I don't know how you match it.

Because $14m is pretty affordable for a guy you can have in your playoff rotation and spot start, even if you see no development moving forward. (A new coach might unlock him better on the offensive end, though.)

But if you won't match $14m, do you even offer the $12.7m QO for the rights to match an offer?

Because it costs you nothing but the Q.O. to retain the option and that's only for one year. I happen to think $14M per is a lot for a guy who can get played off the floor in the playoffs because the other team doesn't even bother guarding him.

It's not just the playoffs either. He was brutal in March and teams barely bothered to guard him. He's not even effective as regular season injury insurance against good teams. You can't have your starting 2 guard averaging 8 points over the course of a month.

He's still afraid to shoot after 4 seasons and we don't get a better shot when he pulls the ball down and drives. He can't buy a call at the rim and he can't finish through contact. He's ineffective as a secondary creator because teams just protect the rim as he has no floater nor midrange game.

Despite all of that, how many times did he step on sidelines because he was looking to manufacture a first step rather than shoot in the playoffs? It gets to the point where Mitchell and Garland don't even pass him the ball in the 4th quarter when he's unguarded at the three point line. You're playing 4 on 5 on offense with him in the game.

The L.A. Times has him as a potential target for the Lakers on the TMLE.

[JonFromVA]

Sure but it would be nice to know who to draft, who to use the MLE on, who to let walk or trade (looking at Okoro and Bates), and who to hire as the next head coach.

The Cavs can talk to Mitchell about an extension as soon as the Finals end and come to an agreement then, even if it is not officially signed until July 6th. (Source: Windhorst on various outlets)

Are you positive about this? He's not a pending free agent, so there is some ambiguity there.

If you have a link to Windy saying/writing he can begin discussing his extension like he is a pending FA, please link it.

Yeah, there shouldn't be any limitations on our ability to talk to our own player. It's the pen to paper part that we'll all be waiting for, and then there will be a moratorium before he can ask for a trade if he doesn't like how things are going.

[JonFromVA]

I feel like the pick at 20 really shouldn't change. If there's a decent big or SF with size, take him. Okoro should get the Q.O. If he gets an offer sheet, the clock starts the same day Mitchell can sign, but really, if it's more than the MLE, it shouldn't matter. He's just so limited offensively, I don't know how you match it.

Because $14m is pretty affordable for a guy you can have in your playoff rotation and spot start, even if you see no development moving forward. (A new coach might unlock him better on the offensive end, though.)

But if you won't match $14m, do you even offer the $12.7m QO for the rights to match an offer?

Because it costs you nothing but the Q.O. to retain the option and that's only for one year. I happen to think $14M per is a lot for a guy who can get played off the floor in the playoffs because the other team doesn't even bother guarding him.

It's not just the playoffs either. He was brutal in March and teams barely bothered to guard him. He's not even effective as regular season injury insurance against good teams. You can't have your starting 2 guard averaging 8 points over the course of a month.

He's still afraid to shoot after 4 seasons and we don't get a better shot when he pulls the ball down and drives. He can't buy a call at the rim and he can't finish through contact. He's ineffective as a secondary creator because teams just protect the rim as he has no floater nor midrange game.

Despite all of that, how many times did he step on sidelines because he was looking to manufacture a first step rather than shoot in the playoffs? It gets to the point where Mitchell and Garland don't even pass him the ball in the 4th quarter when he's unguarded at the three point line. You're playing 4 on 5 on offense with him in the game.

The L.A. Times has him as a potential target for the Lakers on the TMLE.

If Isaac accepts the TMLE from another team, we'll say thank you.

It's funny given how awful Isaac was offensively in the playoffs that he finished with the Cavs 3rd best playoff on-court and 4th best playoff on-off.

It seems there are worse things than playing hard on defense and not taking too many shots away from Mitchell (see Niang, Georges).

[JujitsuFlip]

The Cavs can talk to Mitchell about an extension as soon as the Finals end and come to an agreement then, even if it is not officially signed until July 6th. (Source: Windhorst on various outlets)

Are you positive about this? He's not a pending free agent, so there is some ambiguity there.

If you have a link to Windy saying/writing he can begin discussing his extension like he is a pending FA, please link it.

Yeah, there shouldn't be any limitations on our ability to talk to our own player. It's the pen to paper part that we'll all be waiting for, and then there will be a moratorium before he can ask for a trade if he doesn't like how things are going.

Well of course their *shouldn't* be but the NBA is stupid lol i mean they do their draft before free agency which doesn't make a lick of sense. They allow UFA to start talking to other teams a full 6 hours before RFA can.

The 1 day after the Finals specifically states for pending FA. Koby obviously said he can't talk to Mitchell about the extension yet (but when?)

I read Windy said in 3 weeks they can talk to Mitchell. If he is lumped into that same category, I will feel better because the Cavs will have a good idea of if Mitchell will extend in advance of the draft, FA opening, and most likely hiring their new head coach. However, if they can't even begin discussions until the 6th or heck even the 1st, different ball game.

[JonFromVA]

Are you positive about this? He's not a pending free agent, so there is some ambiguity there.

If you have a link to Windy saying/writing he can begin discussing his extension like he is a pending FA, please link it.

Yeah, there shouldn't be any limitations on our ability to talk to our own player. It's the pen to paper part that we'll all be waiting for, and then there will be a moratorium before he can ask for a trade if he doesn't like how things are going.

Well of course their *shouldn't* be but the NBA is stupid lol i mean they do their draft before free agency which doesn't make a lick of sense. They allow UFA to start talking to other teams a full 6 hours before RFA can.

The 1 day after the Finals specifically states for pending FA. Koby obviously said he can't talk to Mitchell about the extension yet (but when?)

I read Windy said in 3 weeks they can talk to Mitchell. If he is lumped into that same category, I will feel better because the Cavs will have a good idea of if Mitchell will extend in advance of the draft, FA opening, and most likely hiring their new head coach. However, if they can't even begin discussions until the 6th or heck even the 1st, different ball game.

Collusion is a slippery slope in the NBA, the Cavs wouldn't want to instill thoughts that they colluded with Mitchell and came to an agreement on an extension before they are legally allowed to negotiate an extension.