** Official 2024 Make or Break Offseason Thread **

[76ciology]

I don't see the Wolves letting Reid go. Being able to pair Reid or Gobert with KAT is the biggest reason why the Wolves can hide KAT’s flaws, allowing him to focus on his strengths and transform into a winning player.

[NYSixersFan]

I bet the Wolves trade KAT.

[Mik317]

the key is to be creative

after "da big move", the FO needs to hit on a lot of Oubres in terms of signings fans hate but they end up being much better in context. As stated, we need to find the next Aaron Gordon, the next Bruce Brown, the new Gary Payton II, the next DJJ....which requires creativity and not just signing guys who USED to be good. Have said it for a while now, I want Biid (and probably da big move more than likely) be the oldest guys on the roster who gets major minutes, also the slowest...I want Maxey to be the smallest if possible. I want to field a TEAM that if everything goes just fine we don't have major physical weaknesses that are tough to over come or hide. Horford may be the worst athlete who gets minutes this finals and while I hate him, his old ass would have been top 5 on our team lol.

But more than anything I want to see this new roster have a different approach than Biid does everything on offense and takes care of everything on defense too..which means athletes that can hang on defense so he doesn't HAVE to play fire man all the time and a varied offense so we aren't always forcing the ball to him with 5 second on the clock. Perhaps that allows him to get to the playoffs without some new fangled illness lol but more importantly thats a team that can survive him being out, being hurt, and just being off. Tatum has been pretty mid this playoffs (for him of course) and Luka hasn't NEEDED to score 50 and get a triple double to just win a game either. Perhaps in the end its just not meant to be and Biid's playstyle, body, heart, luck, soul, whatever is never going to be able to win but I want the FO to at least attempt a different approach.

now the quiet part out loud is that we may just be **** due to previous mistakes as we are relying on FA and trades to do this and realistically that is hard to do in one offseason and thus the best move will to be patient and probably do the ole kick da can trick again but just once I want to have a roster in which I am at least happy with 7 of the players on it

[mjkvol]

now the quiet part out loud is that we may just be **** due to previous mistakes as we are relying on FA and trades to do this and realistically that is hard to do in one offseason and thus the best move will to be patient and probably do the ole kick da can trick again but just once I want to have a roster in which I am at least happy with 7 of the players on it

I hate the idea that it has to be done in one off season just because so many years were wasted. So the f***k what? Just do it the right way for once, even if it takes a couple of off seasons and trade deadlines to get it right. I don't foresee that kind of patience with a fan base that is frothing at the mouth for a winner at this point.

If the whole damn thing is about 2024-25 or bust, the odds are way stacked against getting where we need to be, but over 2-3 seasons working and tweaking a roster those odds become a lot better, especially if Embiid accepts the more limited type of role you were alluding to.

[76ciology]

I think Embiid is now mature enough to realize he needs to share his load. Danny Green mentioned this on his podcast at RTRS.

If Embiid has to share his load, it can’t be just with 3&D guys like DJJ. It needs to be with a player like Draymond Green or Rudy Gobert, who can handle the defensive load while Maxey carry the load on offense.

This situation is similar to LeBron’s journey. At his peak with the Cavs, he was surrounded by role players. Then he formed a “Big Three” with Wade and Bosh, where the superstar status and load were shared. Eventually, with the Lakers, he faded more into the background, with Anthony Davis taking on the alpha role.

..and now he fades back more playing that “Lavar Ball” role to Bronny James.

[Mik317]

i just want a plan and....uh process...beyond just hoping another star comes available and for some reason forces his way here.

like I said some creativity beyond the normal stack 3 guys and hope the flotsam of old washed players can not suck while said 3 guys have to play flawless ball.

Yes I agree that takes probably longer than most fans are willing to put up with and probably some of the FO peeps too lol...which makes it suck more because this ownership group has often been swayed by that very same impatient group lol

[Mik317]

I think Embiid is now mature enough to realize he needs to share his load. Danny Green mentioned this on his podcast at RTRS.

If Embiid has to share his load, it can’t be just with 3&D guys like DJJ. It needs to be with a player like Draymond Green or Rudy Gobert, who can handle the defensive load while Maxey carry the load on offense.

This situation is similar to LeBron’s journey. At his peak with the Cavs, he was surrounded by role players. Then he formed a 'Big Three' with Wade and Bosh, where the superstar status and load were shared. Eventually, with the Lakers, he faded more into the background, with Anthony Davis taking on the alpha role.

as for the defense I really think just getting him a defensive stopper helps him on that end.

It was low key one of the few things about Ben that worked well together. Being able to stick him on the other teams best player to at least make it so he didn't need to always help felt like it made our defense even better because when he did help it would stonewall and throw the offense off.

Its funny that the IDEA of Ben and Fultz is exactly the two guys to put around Biid lol....do it all FORWARD and a shot creating guard.

lol we are **** cursed

[76ciology]

I think Embiid is now mature enough to realize he needs to share his load. Danny Green mentioned this on his podcast at RTRS.

If Embiid has to share his load, it can’t be just with 3&D guys like DJJ. It needs to be with a player like Draymond Green or Rudy Gobert, who can handle the defensive load while Maxey carry the load on offense.

This situation is similar to LeBron’s journey. At his peak with the Cavs, he was surrounded by role players. Then he formed a 'Big Three' with Wade and Bosh, where the superstar status and load were shared. Eventually, with the Lakers, he faded more into the background, with Anthony Davis taking on the alpha role.

as for the defense I really think just getting him a defensive stopper helps him on that end.

It was low key one of the few things about Ben that worked well together. Being able to stick him on the other teams best player to at least make it so he didn't need to always help felt like it made our defense even better because when he did help it would stonewall and throw the offense off.

Its funny that the IDEA of Ben and Fultz is exactly the two guys to put around Biid lol....do it all FORWARD and a shot creating guard.

lol we are **** cursed

LOL, I also just realized it after you mentioned it. The problem with Ben back then was that he didn’t want to play the Draymond Green role; he wanted to control our offense, which caused friction with Embiid and Jimmy.

I feel like the basketball gods decided to use us as an example to the league on why tanking and building around highly touted draft picks can be problematic. The ego and lifestyle of players groomed as the 'next big thing' make it hard for them to accept smaller roles and rarely have the maturity to see the long term realistically.

That said, I think this is the phase of Embiid’s career where he needs to ask for help on defense. Not just from 3&D players, but from those who can almost entirely take the defensive load off him, similar to how Maxey handles the offensive load.

[Eyeamok]

I think Embiid is now mature enough to realize he needs to share his load. Danny Green mentioned this on his podcast at RTRS.

If Embiid has to share his load, it can’t be just with 3&D guys like DJJ. It needs to be with a player like Draymond Green or Rudy Gobert, who can handle the defensive load while Maxey carry the load on offense.

This situation is similar to LeBron’s journey. At his peak with the Cavs, he was surrounded by role players. Then he formed a 'Big Three' with Wade and Bosh, where the superstar status and load were shared. Eventually, with the Lakers, he faded more into the background, with Anthony Davis taking on the alpha role.

as for the defense I really think just getting him a defensive stopper helps him on that end.

It was low key one of the few things about Ben that worked well together. Being able to stick him on the other teams best player to at least make it so he didn't need to always help felt like it made our defense even better because when he did help it would stonewall and throw the offense off.

Its funny that the IDEA of Ben and Fultz is exactly the two guys to put around Biid lol....do it all FORWARD and a shot creating guard.

lol we are **** cursed

LOL, I also just realized it after you mentioned it. The problem with Ben back then was that he didn’t want to play the Draymond Green role; he wanted to control our offense, which caused friction with Embiid and Jimmy.

I feel like the basketball gods decided to use us as an example to the league on why tanking and building around highly touted draft picks can be problematic. The ego and lifestyle of players groomed as the 'next big thing' make it hard for them to accept smaller roles and rarely have the maturity to see the long term realistically.

That said, I think this is the phase of Embiid’s career where he needs to ask for help on defense. Not just from 3&D players, but from those who can almost entirely take the defensive load off him, similar to how Maxey handles the offensive load.

Ben never felt the need to get better because he probably thought he was a finished product when he came into the league. And of course he knew better than everyone else. You are right when a player comes in with so much hype and has been told he is the next coming of so and so. It's hard to be humble and say coach you know best. Just help make me better. Humility and Ben do not go together.

Now with Embiid you use the word "mature" I'm on the fence about Embiid's maturity. He has never come off as the most mature player. Love him to death but I don't know how much he has grown as a person. And is he willing to take guidance from Nurse etc and take a reduced offensive role after being the focal point on offense for so long? that's a big ask, especially when he knows and everyone else knows, he is still very capable of putting up MVP type numbers on the offensive end.

As far as the basketball gods using the 76ers as an example, the one factor that doomed the team was poor management. I'm not going to go into all of the past history because I have done it before. But hopefully Morey can finally right the ship.

[PhillyFan11]

now the quiet part out loud is that we may just be **** due to previous mistakes as we are relying on FA and trades to do this and realistically that is hard to do in one offseason and thus the best move will to be patient and probably do the ole kick da can trick again but just once I want to have a roster in which I am at least happy with 7 of the players on it

I hate the idea that it has to be done in one off season just because so many years were wasted. So the f***k what? Just do it the right way for once, even if it takes a couple of off seasons and trade deadlines to get it right. I don't foresee that kind of patience with a fan base that is frothing at the mouth for a winner at this point.

If the whole damn thing is about 2024-25 or bust, the odds are way stacked against getting where we need to be, but over 2-3 seasons working and tweaking a roster those odds become a lot better, especially if Embiid accepts the more limited type of role you were alluding to.

My counterpoint is: how do you get the player we really need later on?

Once Maxey is maxed using bird rights it really cash straps us going forward.

Would your plan be to just sign a bunch of free agents to 1 year deals and hope to be able to flip them later?

I just struggle to see how a plan comes to fruition later on. I feel like that’s putting a lot of faith in us being able to offer the most/best 1st round picks if/when a player becomes available…which I wouldn’t count on. The $60 (or so) million in cap space we have is going to be the best asset we have for a long time. Without any young talent to offer in a trade I just fear that the 3 1st’s we can offer will come up short later.

I’m with you on not just handing out a max contract to the PG/Jimmy’s of the world…but I also think there are plenty of options between that and waiting it out Morey has to explore

[Embiid P]

now the quiet part out loud is that we may just be **** due to previous mistakes as we are relying on FA and trades to do this and realistically that is hard to do in one offseason and thus the best move will to be patient and probably do the ole kick da can trick again but just once I want to have a roster in which I am at least happy with 7 of the players on it

I hate the idea that it has to be done in one off season just because so many years were wasted. So the f***k what? Just do it the right way for once, even if it takes a couple of off seasons and trade deadlines to get it right. I don't foresee that kind of patience with a fan base that is frothing at the mouth for a winner at this point.

If the whole damn thing is about 2024-25 or bust, the odds are way stacked against getting where we need to be, but over 2-3 seasons working and tweaking a roster those odds become a lot better, especially if Embiid accepts the more limited type of role you were alluding to.

My counterpoint is: how do you get the player we really need later on?

Once Maxey is maxed using bird rights it really cash straps us going forward.

Would your plan be to just sign a bunch of free agents to 1 year deals and hope to be able to flip them later?

I just struggle to see how a plan comes to fruition later on. I feel like that’s putting a lot of faith in us being able to offer the most/best 1st round picks if/when a player becomes available…which I wouldn’t count on. The $60 (or so) million in cap space we have is going to be the best asset we have for a long time. Without any young talent to offer in a trade I just fear that the 3 1st’s we can offer will come up short later.

I’m with you on not just handing out a max contract to the PG/Jimmy’s of the world…but I also think there are plenty of options between that and waiting it out Morey has to explore

Yup, our cap space will be effectively gone once Maxey signs his extension. Thus we only have this offseason to use it. Obviously this isn't the best free agent class known to man as we're likely gonna have to either overpay for an older star who's on the wrong side of 35 or younger role players. Trade wise, we have nothing really to offer except picks and a TPE while most teams who are trading their younger stars are looking to add either another established young star or current player with star potential. The teams who are looking to rebuild via picks, have little to really offer us except older stars (i.e. the Heat with Butler).

Just hope that Morey can somehow get creative and land the piece(s) we need with the current assets we have likely via a 3 or 4 way trade.

[mjkvol]

now the quiet part out loud is that we may just be **** due to previous mistakes as we are relying on FA and trades to do this and realistically that is hard to do in one offseason and thus the best move will to be patient and probably do the ole kick da can trick again but just once I want to have a roster in which I am at least happy with 7 of the players on it

I hate the idea that it has to be done in one off season just because so many years were wasted. So the f***k what? Just do it the right way for once, even if it takes a couple of off seasons and trade deadlines to get it right. I don't foresee that kind of patience with a fan base that is frothing at the mouth for a winner at this point.

If the whole damn thing is about 2024-25 or bust, the odds are way stacked against getting where we need to be, but over 2-3 seasons working and tweaking a roster those odds become a lot better, especially if Embiid accepts the more limited type of role you were alluding to.

My counterpoint is: how do you get the player we really need later on?

Once Maxey is maxed using bird rights it really cash straps us going forward.

Would your plan be to just sign a bunch of free agents to 1 year deals and hope to be able to flip them later?

I just struggle to see how a plan comes to fruition later on. I feel like that’s putting a lot of faith in us being able to offer the most/best 1st round picks if/when a player becomes available…which I wouldn’t count on. The $60 (or so) million in cap space we have is going to be the best asset we have for a long time. Without any young talent to offer in a trade I just fear that the 3 1st’s we can offer will come up short later.

I’m with you on not just handing out a max contract to the PG/Jimmy’s of the world…but I also think there are plenty of options between that and waiting it out Morey has to explore

Agree completely. Maybe I put it wrong, but my primary point is to only make moves that will help the team not just this year and next year, but beyond, either with their performance or potential trade value. But I would rather sign a bunch of 1-year FA's than max a Paul George and fill out the roster with vet mins, because that is not winning a championship.

There are going to be multiple options beyond what the media hacks are harping on, and it is on Morey to be creative and piece together a group that compliments our two stars and gives us quality depth. Impossible? Well, if it's going to be the 'max and vet min' route, I'd just prefer to tear it all down now instead of 2-3 years from now.

[LeonJordanJr24]

Oubre is a nice fit here. Resign the man.

[Ferry Avenue]

As soon as you organize the team around a "reduced offensive role" for Embiid, Embiid is no longer the focal point of the team, and you don't build the team around him with his particular style of play guiding the effort. If you're asking a player to take a more peripheral role, why then would you consider him first and foremost in determining the kinds of players you're adding to the team?

The inherently contradictory effort here reflects some sort of deep emotional tie to Embiid and the remnants of "The Process," as though we somehow have to make good on that personnel effort and see it through till the bitter end, even if it involves jamming a square peg in a round hole. Embiid shouldn't be guiding the present-day personnel efforts of this organization. The effort to "build around Embiid" has been a catastrophic failure and very likely would be in the future as well.

You don't build around a running back in the NFL. You build around a quarterback. This team needs a quarterback. Not only is Embiid the equivalent of a running back, but now you're reducing his role as well, at the same time you're asking the organization to build around him!

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

^This isn't football

This isn't a Joel Embiid thread/topic

The mods already shut down your attempt at trolling in the other thread

Please don't come here on this one and start stuff again.

[Mik317]

the moment you realize that lessoning the load doesn't mean turning Biid into Gobert is the moment we can have a real discussion about things.

The idea is that by having different things the defense has to worry about and better athletes on defense it makes it much harder to gameplan against what Biid does. The Knicks sold out to stop Maxey in game 6, and that left Biid with 1 on 1 coverage most of the time...and he won. Thats the idea beyond getting more creators and more consistent threats on offense. I mention it often but Giannis only won a chip because teams couldn't just build a wall anymore thanks to Jrue and Middleton and on defense Giannis was able to wreck havoc because of Pre-Washed PJ and Brook Lopez.

Its about maximizing what Biid does well via making it harder for other teams to just throw bodies at him. He has flaws as a player. I also don't think you can win with an everything biid all the time system and that requires Biid to realize that too but that doesn't mean that he suddenly has to become Gobert on offense either.

i know your main point is that we should trade Biid no matter what because of dawg energy or that he's a runningback or whatever but thats not happening so the best bet is to see how you can negate his flaws and use his strengths... to use your football comp (which doesn't work) its liek building a dominant defense a consistant running game and seeing if you can either catch a time when your game manager qb can either manage the game or have a Foles esque run. The point is that there is not one way to do this and if you don't have that way you don't just quit.

[76ciology]

As soon as you organize the team around a "reduced offensive role" for Embiid, Embiid is no longer the focal point of the team, and you don't build the team around him with his particular style of play guiding the effort. If you're asking a player to take a more peripheral role, why then would you consider him first and foremost in determining the kinds of players you're adding to the team?

The inherently contradictory effort here reflects some sort of deep emotional tie to Embiid and the remnants of "The Process," as though we somehow have to make good on that personnel effort and see it through till the bitter end, even if it involves jamming a square peg in a round hole. Embiid shouldn't be guiding the present-day personnel efforts of this organization. The effort to "build around Embiid" has been a catastrophic failure and very likely would be in the future as well.

You don't build around a running back in the NFL. You build around a quarterback. This team needs a quarterback. Not only is Embiid the equivalent of a running back, but now you're reducing his role as well, at the same time you're asking the organization to build around him!

I believe it's more realistic to acknowledge that Embiid can't anchor both ends of the floor at a high level.

Luka Doncic has Kyrie Irving to support him on offense and a group of role players to bolster the defense. They carry him because of his limitations and because he's human—no one has unlimited endurance.

Offensively, Maxey has shown the ability to carry our offense when needed. We just need to add some players who can help Maxey during the non-Embiid minutes, as Maxey's offense heavily relies on the two-man game.

Defensively, Jojo needs someone who can carry our defense, similar to how Maxey supports our offense. This, for me, is the missing link in all our roster construction.

It's not about Embiid turning into Gobert. Every great player needs someone to carry a significant part of the load. Jamal Murray can carry the Nuggets' offense, while Aaron Gordon can carry their defense. Dame can carry the Bucks' offense, with Brook Lopez anchoring their defense. And so forth.

[elchengue20]

That's what i've been saying, you need to find the next Naz Reid, Derrick White, Derrick Jones Jr, Aaron Gordon. Players who can play B+ basketball level in certain role and are earning a mid/low salary. Those are the real value guys.

The secret is to get them before they explode....or have a system and give them a role that make them better than they were before.


That's the key in building a championship team nowadays....not signing a way past his prime Paul George to form a "Big 3" and fill the rest with guys like Paul Reed and Cameron Payne.

[76ciology]

That's what i've been saying, you need to find the next Naz Reid, Derrick White, Derrick Jones Jr, Aaron Gordon. Players who can play B+ basketball level in certain role and are earning a mid/low salary. Those are the real value guys.

The secret is to get them before they explode....or have a system and give them a role that make them better than they were before.


That's the key in building a championship team nowadays....not signing a way past his prime Paul George to form a "Big 3" and fill the rest with guys like Paul Reed and Cameron Payne.

Not necessarily.

You can also sign Paul George. Then find 2 guys “who can play B+ basketball level in certain role” with around $10M of cap space remaining and our 16th pick.

At worst, you can also trade for Zach Lavine. Then find 2 guys “who can play B+ basketball level in certain role” with around $20M of cap space remaining and possibly trading up to 11th pick.

And these 3 guys would round up our starting 5 with Maxey and Embiid.

There are different ways to skin the cat as they say.

[Jhawk03]

That's what i've been saying, you need to find the next Naz Reid, Derrick White, Derrick Jones Jr, Aaron Gordon. Players who can play B+ basketball level in certain role and are earning a mid/low salary. Those are the real value guys.

The secret is to get them before they explode....or have a system and give them a role that make them better than they were before.


That's the key in building a championship team nowadays....not signing a way past his prime Paul George to form a "Big 3" and fill the rest with guys like Paul Reed and Cameron Payne.

Not necessarily.

You can also sign Paul George. Then find 2 guys “who can play B+ basketball level in certain role” with around $10M of cap space remaining and our 16th pick.

At worst, you can also trade for Zach Lavine. Then find 2 guys “who can play B+ basketball level in certain role” with around $20M of cap space remaining and possibly trading up to 11th pick.

And these 3 guys would round up our starting 5 with Maxey and Embiid.

There are different ways to skin the cat as they say.

If it's possible to sign a couple of B+ role players with around 10M of the cap then I suppose I can get on board with signing Paul George. What's bothering me personally, is the the growing belief that said role players will be overpaid THIS OFFSEASON, which is typical considering the cap we have available.

As far as Lavine goes, I'd prefer not, only because the Bulls need to save themselves in the same way this franchise has been forced to do, for example Ben Simmons and Markelle.