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TEAM CANADA AT THE 2024 U18 FIBA AMERICAS

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Re: TEAM CANADA AT THE 2024 U18 FIBA AMERICAS 

Post#21 » by aminiaturebuddha » Tue Jun 4, 2024 4:07 am

TheLP wrote:
mihaic wrote:
TheLP wrote:
Jumping to dunk isn't the obstacle for him, it's catching the ball

Admittedly haven't seen him play in a year so I'm hoping the hand-eye improved but it's been pretty tough to watch in the past. Rioux is what non-Purdue college basketball fans think Zach Edey is

Interesting! Well, I haven't seen him play at all so thanks for the info. But, what do you mean by the bolded part about Edey? I don't want to jump to conclusions.


You know the college basketball narrative from Purdue haters the last 2 years.. "HE'S JUST TALL!!!"

Rioux is just tall. There isn't much else about his game that is noteworthy at this time


I was very disappointed in Rioux in this game today. I'll give him credit for working on his body. He's obviously added strength and moves a bit better than he did last year.

But he still has no idea what to do with his feet, and his hands are still awful. I would guess the success rate of getting the ball into him in the post in this game was about 20%.

He either had the ball poked away because he didn't squeeze it tightly enough or make his move quickly enough, or once he got the ball the slightest contact from a defender knocked him off balance because his feet got tangled up. Even if he had added a simple drop step in the past year he would be better served, but he's got no footwork whatsoever.

Not to always compare him to the other super tall Canadian (because it's unfair to compare him to one of the best college players of all time), but every single year Edey came back with more moves and better footwork. I just don't see anywhere near that kind of development with Rioux.
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Re: TEAM CANADA AT THE 2024 U18 FIBA AMERICAS 

Post#22 » by bozothepope » Tue Jun 4, 2024 5:24 am

Pretty brutal game. Hopefully we can bounce back in game 2.

Meanwhile…

Read on Twitter
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Re: TEAM CANADA AT THE 2024 U18 FIBA AMERICAS 

Post#23 » by Hair Canada » Tue Jun 4, 2024 5:43 am

bozothepope wrote:Pretty brutal game. Hopefully we can bounce back in game 2.

Meanwhile…

Read on Twitter
?s=46


Ye, Riley kind of rubbing it in with all these photos released. The Canadian team could sure use his offensive talents to bail them out.
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Re: TEAM CANADA AT THE 2024 U18 FIBA AMERICAS 

Post#24 » by Hair Canada » Tue Jun 4, 2024 5:49 am

aminiaturebuddha wrote:
TheLP wrote:
mihaic wrote:Interesting! Well, I haven't seen him play at all so thanks for the info. But, what do you mean by the bolded part about Edey? I don't want to jump to conclusions.


You know the college basketball narrative from Purdue haters the last 2 years.. "HE'S JUST TALL!!!"

Rioux is just tall. There isn't much else about his game that is noteworthy at this time


I was very disappointed in Rioux in this game today. I'll give him credit for working on his body. He's obviously added strength and moves a bit better than he did last year.

But he still has no idea what to do with his feet, and his hands are still awful. I would guess the success rate of getting the ball into him in the post in this game was about 20%.

He either had the ball poked away because he didn't squeeze it tightly enough or make his move quickly enough, or once he got the ball the slightest contact from a defender knocked him off balance because his feet got tangled up. Even if he had added a simple drop step in the past year he would be better served, but he's got no footwork whatsoever.

Not to always compare him to the other super tall Canadian (because it's unfair to compare him to one of the best college players of all time), but every single year Edey came back with more moves and better footwork. I just don't see anywhere near that kind of development with Rioux.


To be fair, Edey made these noticeable improvements when he was already in Purdue, while Rioux will just be joining Florida this summer. That said, Edey was already much better at this age (even when he just showed up at Purdue) and he's just a completely different player. For me, it starts with the mental makeup. Edey is a dog. Rioux is very soft. And yes, then there's the bad hands (as I said, I think it's mainly very slow processing), complete lack of footwork, etc. Maybe one more big difference: Edey has very good balance for a player his size. Rioux's balance is quite bad. Not sure if ther'es something about core strengh there or other elements involved.
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Re: TEAM CANADA AT THE 2024 U18 FIBA AMERICAS 

Post#25 » by bozothepope » Tue Jun 4, 2024 6:12 am

I thought Matt Dann had some nice moments in the 2nd half. I might rather see him and Akuentok play over Rioux.
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Re: TEAM CANADA AT THE 2024 U18 FIBA AMERICAS 

Post#26 » by TheLP » Tue Jun 4, 2024 3:05 pm

Hair Canada wrote:
aminiaturebuddha wrote:
TheLP wrote:
You know the college basketball narrative from Purdue haters the last 2 years.. "HE'S JUST TALL!!!"

Rioux is just tall. There isn't much else about his game that is noteworthy at this time


I was very disappointed in Rioux in this game today. I'll give him credit for working on his body. He's obviously added strength and moves a bit better than he did last year.

But he still has no idea what to do with his feet, and his hands are still awful. I would guess the success rate of getting the ball into him in the post in this game was about 20%.

He either had the ball poked away because he didn't squeeze it tightly enough or make his move quickly enough, or once he got the ball the slightest contact from a defender knocked him off balance because his feet got tangled up. Even if he had added a simple drop step in the past year he would be better served, but he's got no footwork whatsoever.

Not to always compare him to the other super tall Canadian (because it's unfair to compare him to one of the best college players of all time), but every single year Edey came back with more moves and better footwork. I just don't see anywhere near that kind of development with Rioux.


To be fair, Edey made these noticeable improvements when he was already in Purdue, while Rioux will just be joining Florida this summer. That said, Edey was already much better at this age (even when he just showed up at Purdue) and he's just a completely different player. For me, it starts with the mental makeup. Edey is a dog. Rioux is very soft. And yes, then there's the bad hands (as I said, I think it's mainly very slow processing), complete lack of footwork, etc. Maybe one more big difference: Edey has very good balance for a player his size. Rioux's balance is quite bad. Not sure if ther'es something about core strengh there or other elements involved.


I think this is where being a multi-sport athlete is incredibly important.

Edey played hockey which obviously requires a lot better balance than basketball and requires some nifty footwork. He played baseball which requires very good hand eye coordination. You can zip a baseball at Edey and he's going to catch that little thing, a basketball with 2 hands is an easy transition.

I do agree about the mentality being totally different. Edey playing those 2 other sports is part of that dog, he wanted to prove he could do more than just basketball because everyone told him to play basketball. He could have been dunking on 5'1" opponents for years but instead developed athletic skills that translated to basketball and helped his quick development into colleges best player.
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Re: TEAM CANADA AT THE 2024 U18 FIBA AMERICAS 

Post#27 » by bozothepope » Tue Jun 4, 2024 4:51 pm

bozothepope wrote:I thought Matt Dann had some nice moments in the 2nd half. I might rather see him and Akuentok play over Rioux.


I got my wish of more Matt Dann in game 2 and he’s been great. I guess they’re being careful of Akuentok’s previous injury so he has the day off.
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Re: TEAM CANADA AT THE 2024 U18 FIBA AMERICAS 

Post#28 » by ItsDanger » Tue Jun 4, 2024 4:55 pm

Dann has a lot of intriguing potential. Still raw and behind the curve so needs more time to work on his game.
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Re: TEAM CANADA AT THE 2024 U18 FIBA AMERICAS 

Post#29 » by MEDIC » Tue Jun 4, 2024 7:43 pm

aminiaturebuddha wrote:
TheLP wrote:
mihaic wrote:Interesting! Well, I haven't seen him play at all so thanks for the info. But, what do you mean by the bolded part about Edey? I don't want to jump to conclusions.


You know the college basketball narrative from Purdue haters the last 2 years.. "HE'S JUST TALL!!!"

Rioux is just tall. There isn't much else about his game that is noteworthy at this time


I was very disappointed in Rioux in this game today. I'll give him credit for working on his body. He's obviously added strength and moves a bit better than he did last year.

But he still has no idea what to do with his feet, and his hands are still awful. I would guess the success rate of getting the ball into him in the post in this game was about 20%.

He either had the ball poked away because he didn't squeeze it tightly enough or make his move quickly enough, or once he got the ball the slightest contact from a defender knocked him off balance because his feet got tangled up. Even if he had added a simple drop step in the past year he would be better served, but he's got no footwork whatsoever.

Not to always compare him to the other super tall Canadian (because it's unfair to compare him to one of the best college players of all time), but every single year Edey came back with more moves and better footwork. I just don't see anywhere near that kind of development with Rioux.


I wouldn't have any expectations of Rioux. He is basically just a giant that plays basketball because of his height. He is super slow & uncoordinated. Reaction time extremely slow.

I watched the All Canadian game live this year & watched him closely in warmup & in the game.

I want the best for the guy, but he is more of a sideshow than he is an athlete/ basketball player. I hope he can get the most out of his experience.
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Re: TEAM CANADA AT THE 2024 U18 FIBA AMERICAS 

Post#30 » by TheLP » Sat Jun 8, 2024 12:22 am

This tournament has been quite underwhelming for Canada
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Re: TEAM CANADA AT THE 2024 U18 FIBA AMERICAS 

Post#31 » by Hair Canada » Sun Jun 9, 2024 11:36 am

TheLP wrote:This tournament has been quite underwhelming for Canada


Indeed. But they did what had to be done.
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Re: TEAM CANADA AT THE 2024 U18 FIBA AMERICAS 

Post#32 » by Hair Canada » Mon Jun 10, 2024 7:56 am

TOURNAMENT SUMMARY

Canada finish with the bronze medal and a spot in next year’s U19 WC in Switzerland.

I still think that Canada was the second-best team in this tournament, but in regular fashion, we started the tournament uncoordinated , lacking any test trials, and not yet set on the right rotations. This resulted in a very poor first gameand an uset against the DR that set us up for a semi-final game against the US.

As expected, this team did have its challenges with creation and shooting (31% from 3 for the tournament and 66% from the line). Riley missing was really felt on that front.

No biggie. These tournaments are more important for seeing player development, assessing future prospects, bringing guys under the Team Canada umbrella, and securing the spot in next year’s WC.


A few quick thoughts on each prospect:


HIGH MAJOR + PROSPECTS

These are the guys on this roster who I think have some NBA potential, though none of them is a sure thing by any means.

Tristan Beckford led the team in both points and rebounds and showed his elite functional athleticism, with tremendous explosion. The nice thing about Beckford is that you can still see how raw he is and how much room for growgh his game still has. Tightening the handle, staying focused on defense (he’s already a decent one-on-one defender, but often lacks a degree of awareness and misses too many reads). The other thing is the shooting, which will be a make-or-break skill for him as an NBA prospect. He was willing to take them (3 attempts per game), which is good, but shot at just 21% (and 64% from the line). I do think he has decent touch and the shooting form certainly needs to be tweaked (little elevation and a weird release). But I think there’s room for hope on that front.

Efeosa Oliogu A somewhat disappointing tournament for Oliogu, who I thought without Riley would take over games and be a better facilitator. Struggled quite mightily in most games with turnovers and finishing in the paint, even against defenders who should not be able to bother him. Maybe a nagging injury or something of the sort was slowing him down? He did shoot 45% from 3, but on low volume and I don’t think his shot can be truster at this point (though it does look better than it did at an earlier age). Also doesn’t have much of a mid-range game to speak of. Clearly, there’s a lot to work on, tightening the handle, taking better care of the ball and valuing each possession. But he’s still a tremendous athlete with very good vision and passing chops, so I’m not quite ready to give up on him as an NBA prospect.

Marial Akuentok Akuentok came to the tournament injured, only played 6 minutes per game, and eventually succumbed to his injury and sat out in the last two games. But even in these few minutes he showed why I think he’s the most promising prospect in the paint we’ve had in years (since Edey). The combination of mobility, strength, rim running, and rim protection are what the modern NBA is looking for and he also flashed some post moves (seen more of these throughout the season). If he can add a somewhat reliable mid-range shot (also seen flashes of this during the high school season), improve his conditioning, and learn how to stay out of foul trouble, he’s clearly a high major prospect with NBA upside.


HIGH MAJOR PROSPECTS

Jalen Rougier-Roane Was Canada’s best shooter in this competition. The 3-point shooting looks really smooth and effortless, with a quick high release, and he can make them with regularity when he’s open. Still much room to improve in other areas of the game. The creation and finishing off the dribble are limited at this stage (only 26% from 2) and he also doesn’t create much for teammates (1 assist per game in almost 20 minutes of play). I’d still like to see him with the team next year and can see some high major potential there.

Jaion Pitt was one of the most consistent guys on the team. The maturity of his game stands out, as does the excellent footwork and soft touch around the rim. He was also very solid defensively and he’s a good rebounder. Pitt made a couple of 3-pointers and was more willing to take them than I’ve seen before, but it remains a weak point in his game (he made 30% of them but the misses were usually quite wide).

Spencer Ahrens A bit of a disappointing tournament for Ahrens, even though he finished as the team’s second-best scorer and third-best rebounder. The shot was not falling for him in most games (he did finish with 36% from 3 on almost 4 attempts, but much of it is thanks to the last game. This really held him back offensively. He’s still a smart player with good footwork, so he was able to do some nice things. But his best minutes were when he was playing center and able to space the game. The problem with that is that he’s not a strong enough rebounder or shot blocker to hold the position defensively so he's clearly a 4 at the next level.

Matt Dann The nice surprise for me in this tournament. Showed more than I've seen from him during the regular high school season. Still not a real offensive threat (though he did have that one game against Puerto Rico where he was perfect from the field on the way to 18 points), but the defense and rebounding were very solid. In only 15 minutes per game, he led the team with 1.5 blocked shots per game (no other player had more than 0.5) and the team looked much better with him on the court than with Rioux. Guess I owe him an apology for doubting he should even be on the roster (though I did say that if it’s a backup in case Akuentok is injured than it’s understandable). He has very good size and length and with improvements to his body (needs to put more weight and muscle) and offensive skill, I can see him as a high-major prospect. Since he’s a late bloomer (started playing basketball at a relatively old age), I think these are possible developments.


MID-LOW MAJOR / USPORTS PROSPECTS

Ramogi Nyagudi continues to show flashes of brilliance in a sea of questionable decisions and inexplicable misses. In terms of pure potential, there’s clearly a high-major player there, as a SF with size (6’8), shooting (shot the ball better in this tournament than what I’ve seen before), good athleticism, and some slashing and passing abilities. So maybe he does belong in the former group and I’m being too harsh. It’s just that at this point the combination of weak dribble, mediocre feel, inability to finish efficiently in the paint, and particularly poor defensive awareness (there were a couple of really glaring mistakes in the game against the US for example, which helped the American’s run away with it in the first half) all make me hesitant.

Tyrus Rathan-Mayes didn’t always get many opportunities, but when he did he wasn’t really able to capture them. It starts with the perimeter shooting, which should have been his calling card, but wasn’t falling (25% from 3 in the tournament), but he also couldn’t finish efficiently in the paint and even missed most of his free throws (29% TS for the tournament). Was also not able to make a mark in other aspects of the game, except maybe a bit of passing. Like Nyagudi, I do see some high major upside here if the shooting eventually works out, but right now it doesn’t look very good.

Justus Haseley was clearly Canada’s best PG in this tournament and had some nice moments in several games. He led the team in assists and steals and the team generally looked better with him on the court. That said, I think much of it is due to the lack of PG alternatives, and though I like some aspects of Haseley’s game, it’s a bit hard for me at this point to see him as an influential high major prospect, given his mediocre size, shooting, and half-court creation.

Olivier Rioux I guess it’s a bit strange to say that someone his size, who’s going to play for Florida next year is not a high major prospect. He’s only 18 and bigs are notorious for taking longer to develop. Still, I just can’t see him making the huge improvements needed to get to this level. Yes, he’s huge. But he has no idea how to use his size on both ends of the floor. Particularly, it’s disappointing on the defensive end, where 6’8 guys and even guards are not afraid to challenge him at the rim (usually successfully) and take rebounds over his head. His lack of mibility also means that players take advantage of his extreme slow-footedness to blow by him or make uncontested mid-rangers (not to speak of shooting completely open 3-pointers on the switch). Offensively, it’s not much better. He didn’t have many TOs registered to his name, but that’s mainly because whenever guys tried to find him in the paint, he mostly fumbled the ball before even catching it (has extremely bad hands) and the TO would register to his teammate. At some point they all realized it and stopped trying. Even when he does get the occasional touch in the paint (some from offensive rebounds that fall into his lap through his mere size), he has little idea what to do with it. Despite being almost 300 pounds, he lacks strength, has weak balance, and doesn’t finish with arms stretched or any elevation, leading to him being blocked more than once or just not reaching the rim. He also has fairly poor touch, and doesn’t try to dunk them (a mix of softness and lack of pop).

Okay, I see I’m running off here and maybe I shouldn’t be that harsh on Rioux, who’s a nice kid, working hard, and still only 18. But I do think it’s time to give other bigs a chance with the team next year, after Rioux has been part of 4 youth teams over the last 4 years (U16, U17, U19, and now U18). A rotation of Akunetok and Dunn, with Ahrens manning the 5 for some stretches, should be completely sufficient, and I’d even take guys like Char Yeiy or Dylan Homenick over him if one of the above bigs is unavailable.

Torian Lee showed a few flashes, especially defensively, but wasn’t able to create much on offense or shoot the ball efficiently (20% from the field and 11% from 3). I still like him as a player, but there should be better options at PG next year (see below).


A LOOK AHEAD TO NEXT YEAR’S U19 WC

Unlike two years ago, I think this team has a good base and would keep most of the guys in. At the very least, there’s a core of 8 players who I think earned their spot for next year and should be there: Haseley, Roane, Oliogu, Beckford, Akuentok, Ahrens, Pitt, and Dan. Nyagudi and Rathan-Mayes are more borderline for me, but could also be a part of the team if there are no better alternatives.

But hopefully, they can also make a few adjustments before next year’s tournament to have an even stronger team.

Riley is the big question mark, and the guy who could really be the big difference maker in terms of this team’s ceiling. He could turn them into a medal contender and should join the team if he doesn’t explode in college next year and becomes a one-and-done.

A healthy Akuentok with additional development could also go a long way and would be a massive upgrade to the rotation in the paint.

Beyond these two, I would probably also bring another PG, probably instead of Lee, who has a hard time scoring and creating at this level. I mentioned a few options in the first post, but I mainly have my eyes on a few guys from the class of 2026. Miles Sadler is I think the best player in that class and brings a nice combination of shooting and creation. TJ Wal could be another interesting option, with strong shooting, depending on how he looks like in the U17 this summer. And there’s also Kamai Samuels, who was our leading PG last summer at the U16 (a terrific athlete, but more limited in terms of shooting.

Finally, I’d be happy to see Tunde Durodola there (instead of Rioux) and maybe also a pure shooter like Andrew Urosevic (probably a better situational shooter than Rathan-Mayes, but likely a worse player overall, so it’s close).
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Re: TEAM CANADA AT THE 2024 U18 FIBA AMERICAS 

Post#33 » by aminiaturebuddha » Mon Jun 10, 2024 7:59 pm

Things fluctuated a lot from game to game, but the two most consistent players in my eyes were Beckford and Pitt. I'm still not quite sure what Pitt's game will be at higher levels, but he was a very important player for this team, and likely will be next year as well.

For me there were two guys that were very interesting because I hadn't seen them much before this tournament - Nyagudi and Haseley.

Hair is definitely right that Nyagudi was all over the place, and I think that's true both in a good and bad sense. When he was good he was flying around the court, playing tremendous on-ball defence, crashing the boards, playing unselfish basketball and making the right reads, and hitting shots from the corner. When he was bad he was dribbling the ball off his foot, leaning into wild drives to the hoop that didn't go anyway, and forgetting where he was supposed to be on defence.

I think he's got the most variance of anyone on the team. There's a good chance that he never puts it all together and flames out in college as a guy that coaches just can't trust to play big minutes. But I think there's also a small chance that we could look up 5 years from now and he's become the best player from this team, as the epitome of a 3-and-D guy who also makes the right connective passes and crashes the boards. He's an enigma.

Haseley was just way more solid than I realized. For the most part he kept things under control, I felt more comfortable with the ball in his hands than anyone else on the team, and he often made the right decision in terms of when to try for his own offence versus get others involved. He also had some moments defensively, although obviously that was a mixed bag like any young point guard. I don't see star in his future, but I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes a Trae Bell-Haynes or Kenny Chery type PG who we end up seeing quite a bit on the senior men's team in qualifying games down the road.

As for the two guys who I thought would be the best players on the team, Oliogu and Ahrens, both disappointed me in different ways. Oliogu has loads of talent, but just plays so damn sloppy all the time on both ends of the court. He just doesn't seem to value possessions, which became a glaring problem in a tournament setting such as this. Maybe some good college coaching can get him to focus and make the most of his talents, but right now he's a long way from making good on his potential.

Ahrens just didn't seem to impact the game as much as I thought he would. His offensive skill set is still very rudimentary, much more so than I previously believed. For example, he has this weird habit of taking a little jab step before he dribbles or shoots, but often, even if it gets the defender off balance, he ends up dribbling right to the spot where the defender is instead of using that to cross them up. I'm not sure if it's a matter of pre-determining his moves, or if he just needs a lot of work on his footwork, but it might be both. For right now he's an inconsistent shooter and that's about it.

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