More Trades and Transactions Ideas Thread

[thebuzzardman]

Burks, Bogs and Precious. Nothing else matters.

[Spree2Houston]

Thanks for providing the links. I recommend everybody watch this. The new CBA is super punitive and restrictive in many situations. Some take aways from this talk:

1)Bojan: If the Knicks guarantee his contract by 28th of june he will be a 19mill. expiring. If they partially guarantee his contract it will be a 2mill. contract. In any case, the knicks cannot aggregate Bojan's deal with any other deal--say for example Mitch's contract for a star player. They can only trade that contract by itself.

2)In Marks' opinion OKC is rather unlikely to offer Ihart a 4year/80mill. contract because in 2 years SGA and the rest will be looking for extensions and having Hart on the books could severely hamper them.

3)Knicks will likely keep OG with a deal approximating 4years/140mill. They will tend a qualifying offer to Precious and see if he comes up with something.

4)IHart is probably going to stay at 4/72. There is no opportunity for giving him an opt-out after 1 year. If he signs that deal the earliest opt-out would be after the second season.

5)Overall it is going to be much more difficult to assemble many attractive assets on a single team. The restrictions are crazy...for example if you are a second Apron team your draft pick will be frozen in the middle-term future, you can't use the MLE.....like the luxury tax will be the least of your problems.

6)Which brings me to the 6th a final conclusion: Getting someone like KAT should be almost out of the question. If you have a guy making 55mill. he better be a good defender, high IQ guy and true superstar. Same goes for Randle....he would only make sense to keep longterm if his contract is really modest. Essentially under the new CBA you can build a solid roster around a superstar duo but much more difficult under a trio. For example if the Knicks go after another all-star/superstar they would essentially have to trade Randle somewhere down the line if they don't want to be operationally crippled.

Basically what myself and a few others have been saying for a while. You can’t build with 3 stars anymore. The CBA won’t allow it. We can put those Donovan Mitchell and Brandon Ingram pipe dreams to rest now.

Brunson, OG and Mitchell can fit if they sign for less than the max. Bridges has 2 years left on a favorable deal at around 25M a year. Markenen has 1 year left at 18M. Murray has like 3 years around 25M. The issue is getting one of the 50M already a year players like KAT.

Brunson, OG, Mitchell is fine bc it would mean Randle is being traded but those Bojan, Mitch and draft picks trade proposals can end now lol

[sol537]

Aller and Rose will figure out a way to keep us out of the 2nd apron for now…

[douggood]

Thanks for providing the links. I recommend everybody watch this. The new CBA is super punitive and restrictive in many situations. Some take aways from this talk:

1)Bojan: If the Knicks guarantee his contract by 28th of june he will be a 19mill. expiring. If they partially guarantee his contract it will be a 2mill. contract. In any case, the knicks cannot aggregate Bojan's deal with any other deal--say for example Mitch's contract for a star player. They can only trade that contract by itself.

2)In Marks' opinion OKC is rather unlikely to offer Ihart a 4year/80mill. contract because in 2 years SGA and the rest will be looking for extensions and having Hart on the books could severely hamper them.

3)Knicks will likely keep OG with a deal approximating 4years/140mill. They will tend a qualifying offer to Precious and see if he comes up with something.

4)IHart is probably going to stay at 4/72. There is no opportunity for giving him an opt-out after 1 year. If he signs that deal the earliest opt-out would be after the second season.

5)Overall it is going to be much more difficult to assemble many attractive assets on a single team. The restrictions are crazy...for example if you are a second Apron team your draft pick will be frozen in the middle-term future, you can't use the MLE.....like the luxury tax will be the least of your problems.

6)Which brings me to the 6th a final conclusion: Getting someone like KAT should be almost out of the question. If you have a guy making 55mill. he better be a good defender, high IQ guy and true superstar. Same goes for Randle....he would only make sense to keep longterm if his contract is really modest. Essentially under the new CBA you can build a solid roster around a superstar duo but much more difficult under a trio. For example if the Knicks go after another all-star/superstar they would essentially have to trade Randle somewhere down the line if they don't want to be operationally crippled.

Bogs can't be traded with other players????

If we go over the 2nd tax apron. I think there is a possibility we go over the 2nd arpon if we resign OG and Ihart to large deals and keep everyone else.

cap is $144 mil tax is $172 mil, first apron is $178, second apron is $188

6 players who are guaranteed for next season make $103, add in $54mil for OG + ihart, lets say that 8 players make $157

with bogs($19), precious ($6), draft picks #25/#26 ($6), that's 12 players making $188
fill out the roster and you easily end up over the 2nd apron.

[mpharris36]

Bogs can't be traded with other players????

If we go over the 2nd tax apron. I think there is a possibility we go over the 2nd arpon if we resign OG and Ihart to large deals and keep everyone else.

cap is $144 mil tax is $172 mil, first apron is $178, second apron is $188

6 players who are guaranteed for next season make $103, add in $54mil for OG + ihart, lets say that 8 players make $157

with bogs($19), precious ($6), draft picks #25/#26 ($6), that's 12 players making $188
fill out the roster and you easily end up over the 2nd apron.

Yeah obviously we would have to do some maneuvering. Ihart, Mitch, or Randle at least one of them is likely not to be here in the near future especially if we want to acquire another piece to the roster.

[WargamesX]

If we go over the 2nd tax apron. I think there is a possibility we go over the 2nd arpon if we resign OG and Ihart to large deals and keep everyone else.

cap is $144 mil tax is $172 mil, first apron is $178, second apron is $188

6 players who are guaranteed for next season make $103, add in $54mil for OG + ihart, lets say that 8 players make $157

with bogs($19), precious ($6), draft picks #25/#26 ($6), that's 12 players making $188
fill out the roster and you easily end up over the 2nd apron.

Yeah obviously we would have to do some maneuvering. Ihart, Mitch, or Randle at least one of them is likely not to be here in the near future especially if we want to acquire another piece to the roster.

I still disagree because Mitch is making so little and Randle is a player option next year. They don’t have to make a move, no would trading Mitch create cap space for IHart and neither IHart or Match brings what Randle brings.

I think we’re going to see them trade for more picks and make a stupid lopsided pick heavy offer for a player under a cost control contract that can be swapped for Bojan.

[mpharris36]

cap is $144 mil tax is $172 mil, first apron is $178, second apron is $188

6 players who are guaranteed for next season make $103, add in $54mil for OG + ihart, lets say that 8 players make $157

with bogs($19), precious ($6), draft picks #25/#26 ($6), that's 12 players making $188
fill out the roster and you easily end up over the 2nd apron.

Yeah obviously we would have to do some maneuvering. Ihart, Mitch, or Randle at least one of them is likely not to be here in the near future especially if we want to acquire another piece to the roster.

I still disagree because Mitch is making so little and Randle is a player option next year. They don’t have to make a move, no would trading Mitch create cap space for IHart and neither IHart or Match brings what Randle brings.

I think we’re going to see them trade for more picks and make a stupid lopsided pick heavy offer for a player under a cost control contract that can be swapped for Bojan.

I guess but finding a sub 20 MM difference making piece with a bunch of picks is harder than it looks.

Brunson extension will kick in soon. I also don't know if I trust Randle as the #2 option in playoffs. So I don't mind moving on from him from the right move. I'm not saying give him away but not sure I want to tie to him long term in extension talks.

[sol537]

If we go over the 2nd tax apron. I think there is a possibility we go over the 2nd arpon if we resign OG and Ihart to large deals and keep everyone else.

cap is $144 mil tax is $172 mil, first apron is $178, second apron is $188

6 players who are guaranteed for next season make $103, add in $54mil for OG + ihart, lets say that 8 players make $157

with bogs($19), precious ($6), draft picks #25/#26 ($6), that's 12 players making $188
fill out the roster and you easily end up over the 2nd apron.

Yeah obviously we would have to do some maneuvering. Ihart, Mitch, or Randle at least one of them is likely not to be here in the near future especially if we want to acquire another piece to the roster.

Leon could decline Bogs' final season, let Precious/Burks walk, kick all the picks forward, and sign min guys for the last ~5 slots... then utilize the MLE and still, in theory, stay under the 2nd apron. Maybe they could convince OG to do an opt-in and extend like Hart did for DDV's MLE... who knows...

[sol537]

Bogs can't be traded with other players????

If we go over the 2nd tax apron. I think there is a possibility we go over the 2nd arpon if we resign OG and Ihart to large deals and keep everyone else.

cap is $144 mil tax is $172 mil, first apron is $178, second apron is $188

6 players who are guaranteed for next season make $103, add in $54mil for OG + ihart, lets say that 8 players make $157

with bogs($19), precious ($6), draft picks #25/#26 ($6), that's 12 players making $188
fill out the roster and you easily end up over the 2nd apron.

For the sake of argument... what if we keep OG/iHart and bring back Precious/Burks/Bogs... and make all our picks and run it back... and we end up in the 2nd apron this season or next... why is the 2nd apron such a terrible thing? I get there's restrictions... but are those restrictions really that devastating if you already have a squad you're content with for 3-5 seasons?

Someone break down the "penalties" besides the extra tax burden on Dolan.

[mpharris36]

cap is $144 mil tax is $172 mil, first apron is $178, second apron is $188

6 players who are guaranteed for next season make $103, add in $54mil for OG + ihart, lets say that 8 players make $157

with bogs($19), precious ($6), draft picks #25/#26 ($6), that's 12 players making $188
fill out the roster and you easily end up over the 2nd apron.

Yeah obviously we would have to do some maneuvering. Ihart, Mitch, or Randle at least one of them is likely not to be here in the near future especially if we want to acquire another piece to the roster.

Leon could decline Bogs' final season, let Precious/Burks walk, kick all the picks forward, and sign min guys for the last ~5 slots... then utilize the MLE and still, in theory, stay under the 2nd apron. Maybe they could convince OG to do an opt-in and extend like Hart did for DDV's MLE... who knows...

They got bogs $$$ to use in a future trade...would be a pretty worthless trade to lose his tradable salary.

[sol537]

Yeah obviously we would have to do some maneuvering. Ihart, Mitch, or Randle at least one of them is likely not to be here in the near future especially if we want to acquire another piece to the roster.

Leon could decline Bogs' final season, let Precious/Burks walk, kick all the picks forward, and sign min guys for the last ~5 slots... then utilize the MLE and still, in theory, stay under the 2nd apron. Maybe they could convince OG to do an opt-in and extend like Hart did for DDV's MLE... who knows...

They got bogs $$$ to use in a future trade...would be a pretty worthless trade to lose his tradable salary.

Unless they don’t foresee a great trade target materializing and they have a perfect MLE target waiting (like DDV)… also… if it takes sacrificing Bogs for an MLE player and a chance to stay under the 2nd apron… don’t doubt Leon =)

[Deeeez Knicks]

Mitch not going anywhere

Read on Twitter

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[KnixinSix]

Watch on YouTube

More quotes on Markenen interest

[douggood]

If we go over the 2nd tax apron. I think there is a possibility we go over the 2nd arpon if we resign OG and Ihart to large deals and keep everyone else.

cap is $144 mil tax is $172 mil, first apron is $178, second apron is $188

6 players who are guaranteed for next season make $103, add in $54mil for OG + ihart, lets say that 8 players make $157

with bogs($19), precious ($6), draft picks #25/#26 ($6), that's 12 players making $188
fill out the roster and you easily end up over the 2nd apron.

For the sake of argument... what if we keep OG/iHart and bring back Precious/Burks/Bogs... and make all our picks and run it back... and we end up in the 2nd apron this season or next... why is the 2nd apron such a terrible thing? I get there's restrictions... but are those restrictions really that devastating if you already have a squad you're content with for 3-5 seasons?

Someone break down the "penalties" besides the extra tax burden on Dolan.

apron triggers when ever you exceed the apron, and if you do a move and drop under it then the restrictions are lifted.


for teams above 1st apron
- no getting players in s&t
- no BAE
- cannot use TPE
- cannot sign buyout player who made more than MLE salary.
- 100% or less in salary matching in trades. (cannot send out 35 mil player to get 40 mil players, but can send 40 mil to get 35 mil)

for teams above 2nd apron (all above plus)
- no tax MLE
- cannot aggregate outgoing players in trade, (cannot trade mitch, bogi and mcbride for ingram)
- cannot send cash
- 1st round in 7 years is locked and cannot be traded, plus if you stay in the apron for 2 out of 4 season, that pick automatically becomes pick 30th.

[sol537]

cap is $144 mil tax is $172 mil, first apron is $178, second apron is $188

6 players who are guaranteed for next season make $103, add in $54mil for OG + ihart, lets say that 8 players make $157

with bogs($19), precious ($6), draft picks #25/#26 ($6), that's 12 players making $188
fill out the roster and you easily end up over the 2nd apron.

For the sake of argument... what if we keep OG/iHart and bring back Precious/Burks/Bogs... and make all our picks and run it back... and we end up in the 2nd apron this season or next... why is the 2nd apron such a terrible thing? I get there's restrictions... but are those restrictions really that devastating if you already have a squad you're content with for 3-5 seasons?

Someone break down the "penalties" besides the extra tax burden on Dolan.

apron triggers when ever you exceed the apron, and if you do a move and drop under it then the restrictions are lifted.


for teams above 1st apron
- no getting players in s&t
- no BAE
- cannot use TPE
- cannot sign buyout player who made more than MLE salary.
- 100% or less in salary matching in trades. (cannot send out 35 mil player to get 40 mil players, but can send 40 mil to get 35 mil)

for teams above 2nd apron (all above plus)
- no tax MLE
- cannot aggregate outgoing players in trade, (cannot trade mitch, bogi and mcbride for ingram)
- cannot send cash
- 1st round in 7 years is locked and cannot be traded, plus if you stay in the apron for 2 out of 4 season, that pick automatically becomes pick 30th.

Thanks… definitely makes it tougher to make changes and improve though not impossible. Should lead to even more parity which is great.

[Ray Williams]

Yeah obviously we would have to do some maneuvering. Ihart, Mitch, or Randle at least one of them is likely not to be here in the near future especially if we want to acquire another piece to the roster.

Leon could decline Bogs' final season, let Precious/Burks walk, kick all the picks forward, and sign min guys for the last ~5 slots... then utilize the MLE and still, in theory, stay under the 2nd apron. Maybe they could convince OG to do an opt-in and extend like Hart did for DDV's MLE... who knows...

They got bogs $$$ to use in a future trade...would be a pretty worthless trade to lose his tradable salary.

No way they should cut Bogs, either use his salary in a trade to upgrade or keep him, he started fitting in great running the second unit.

[douggood]

For the sake of argument... what if we keep OG/iHart and bring back Precious/Burks/Bogs... and make all our picks and run it back... and we end up in the 2nd apron this season or next... why is the 2nd apron such a terrible thing? I get there's restrictions... but are those restrictions really that devastating if you already have a squad you're content with for 3-5 seasons?

Someone break down the "penalties" besides the extra tax burden on Dolan.

apron triggers when ever you exceed the apron, and if you do a move and drop under it then the restrictions are lifted.


for teams above 1st apron
- no getting players in s&t
- no BAE
- cannot use TPE
- cannot sign buyout player who made more than MLE salary.
- 100% or less in salary matching in trades. (cannot send out 35 mil player to get 40 mil players, but can send 40 mil to get 35 mil)

for teams above 2nd apron (all above plus)
- no tax MLE
- cannot aggregate outgoing players in trade, (cannot trade mitch, bogi and mcbride for ingram)
- cannot send cash
- 1st round in 7 years is locked and cannot be traded, plus if you stay in the apron for 2 out of 4 season, that pick automatically becomes pick 30th.

Thanks… definitely makes it tougher to make changes and improve though not impossible. Should lead to even more parity which is great.

what hollinger wrote about the aprons and parity today.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5525723/2024/06/02/is-the-nba-in-the-middle-of-a-new-age-of-parity-or-is-it-about-to-exit-one/

In particular, the new collective bargaining agreement seems set up to make the current environment continue a while longer. The rules on the second apron are designed to rein in the big spenders and force elite teams to make hard decisions at every level of the roster once their stars graduate from rookie deals to supermax extensions. We’ll see how teams play their hands in the coming years, but the rules seem to incentivize even the most free-spending teams to limit themselves to a two-year run above the second apron before pulling back and avoiding the most severe penalties.

[aggo]

Quentin Grimes

[KnixinSix]

apron triggers when ever you exceed the apron, and if you do a move and drop under it then the restrictions are lifted.


for teams above 1st apron
- no getting players in s&t
- no BAE
- cannot use TPE
- cannot sign buyout player who made more than MLE salary.
- 100% or less in salary matching in trades. (cannot send out 35 mil player to get 40 mil players, but can send 40 mil to get 35 mil)

for teams above 2nd apron (all above plus)
- no tax MLE
- cannot aggregate outgoing players in trade, (cannot trade mitch, bogi and mcbride for ingram)
- cannot send cash
- 1st round in 7 years is locked and cannot be traded, plus if you stay in the apron for 2 out of 4 season, that pick automatically becomes pick 30th.

Thanks… definitely makes it tougher to make changes and improve though not impossible. Should lead to even more parity which is great.

what hollinger wrote about the aprons and parity today.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5525723/2024/06/02/is-the-nba-in-the-middle-of-a-new-age-of-parity-or-is-it-about-to-exit-one/

In particular, the new collective bargaining agreement seems set up to make the current environment continue a while longer. The rules on the second apron are designed to rein in the big spenders and force elite teams to make hard decisions at every level of the roster once their stars graduate from rookie deals to supermax extensions. We’ll see how teams play their hands in the coming years, but the rules seem to incentivize even the most free-spending teams to limit themselves to a two-year run above the second apron before pulling back and avoiding the most severe penalties.

Guys like Markenen, DeJounte and Bridges. All contracts under 25M a year are going to have even greater value now. This is why it surprised me we didn't give up two picks for DeJounte Murray. He is locked up at 25M a year for the next 3 years.

Think DeJounte would have made a HUGE difference in the playoffs personally especially when we had all those injuries.

[mpharris36]

Thanks… definitely makes it tougher to make changes and improve though not impossible. Should lead to even more parity which is great.

what hollinger wrote about the aprons and parity today.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5525723/2024/06/02/is-the-nba-in-the-middle-of-a-new-age-of-parity-or-is-it-about-to-exit-one/

In particular, the new collective bargaining agreement seems set up to make the current environment continue a while longer. The rules on the second apron are designed to rein in the big spenders and force elite teams to make hard decisions at every level of the roster once their stars graduate from rookie deals to supermax extensions. We’ll see how teams play their hands in the coming years, but the rules seem to incentivize even the most free-spending teams to limit themselves to a two-year run above the second apron before pulling back and avoiding the most severe penalties.

Guys like Markenen, DeJounte and Bridges. All contracts under 25M a year are going to have even greater value now. This is why it surprised me we didn't give up two picks for DeJounte Murray. He is locked up at 25M a year for the next 3 years.

Think DeJounte would have made a HUGE difference in the playoffs personally especially when we had all those injuries.

I really don't Dejounte as a good fit next to brunson. He hasn't been a good fit next to high usage guard like Brunson...and he hasn't been an impactful defender. Not sure he's willing to take an off ball backseat role to Brunson and not sure he does the off ball stuff we would need from that roll.

Markenen and Bridges make more sense just don't know what it would take to get either from Utah or the Nets respectively.