Free Agency

[theBigLip]

Reportedly Hartenstein is expecting $20 million per year over four years. The Knicks can only give him 4/$72 with "early bird rights" so if another team is willing to go a bit higher to $20 million he maybe consider leaving. Nic Claxton is reportedly looking for a similar number from the Nets.

$20M isn’t bad. He could teach Duren how to play D.

[Crymson]

There are plenty of guys not of NBA caliber who can teach Duren how to play defense. If they sign the likes of Hartenstein, they'll be doing so as a contingency against the possibility of Jalen being terrible on defense again and, presumably, so that they have someone to push him.

[Snakebites]

There are plenty of guys not of NBA caliber who can teach Duren how to play defense. If they sign the likes of Hartenstein, they'll be doing so as a contingency against the possibility of Jalen being terrible on defense again and, presumably, so that they have someone to push him.

I don't want to sign any of those guys unless we're trading Duren and they are replacing him.

[flow]

Grimes might be worth a 2nd rounder in this draft. Ivey maybe pick #25 from New York or #26 from Washington. Stewart could still essentially get 23-24 MPG even if he's splitting minutes at PF with someone else. I don't think Stewart has shown he's good enough to be a 33 MPG guy and same goes to both should likely be 23-24 MPG guys (maybe both playing center).

Overall I don't think Grimes has much value he's a fringe rotation player with slight upside at this point. He's better than some of the non NBA calibur guys we've been playing for years but he's not like a 6th or 7th man like Font looks to be. Sasser is in the same boat he wasn't really a stand out on a 14 win team he's likely only worth a 2nd rounder at this point. If one of those guys works on their game and steps into being a solid rotation player its better than getting late first or early 2nd round picks at this point. That said, trading away one or two isn't a bad idea at some point so we don't end up just eventually having to get nothing like out of Sekou, Hayes, Livers, Saben Lee, Bruce Brown, Henry Elleson, KCP, Greg Monroe, Luke Kennard, Spencer Dinwiddie, Andre Drummond, Kyle SIngler, Brandon Knight, etc.... literally we've gotten almost zero value out of all of our draft picks from the past decade plus. Zero first round picks or good players came back for any of those guys.

I don’t think we got to see a healthy Grimes play last year. I’m hoping he’s not only rotation worthy, but pushes Ivey hard to start.

Grimes is the perfect archetype to start next to Cade at the 2. Defensive glove and low usage 3 point shooter. The question is - is he good enough. On current evidence sadly that is a not even close, but hey we’re due some luck - maybe it was the injury making him terrible?


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Disagree. The perfect fit next to Cade is a better ball-handler than Cade. Of course he's going to have the ball in his hands, but both he and the team are better off when he's not the primary ball-handler. That became evident this season.

.

[Crymson]

I don't want to sign any of those guys unless we're trading Duren and they are replacing him.

I'm of the opinion that the Pistons cannot afford to punt on the high-ceiling talent they've got. They're unlikely to get commensurate value in return -- particularly as they'd be selling Duren at a relative low -- and that talent is still the best shot this team has at building a contender.

For better or worse, this fortunes of this team are no less dependent upon the development of raw talent now than they were last summer.

[theBigLip]

I don't want to sign any of those guys unless we're trading Duren and they are replacing him.

I'm of the opinion that the Pistons cannot afford to punt on the high-ceiling talent they've got. They're unlikely to get commensurate value in return -- particularly as they'd be selling Duren at a relative low -- and that talent is still the best shot this team has at building a contender.

For better or worse, this fortunes of this team are no less dependent upon the development of raw talent now than they were last summer.

Totally agree. Why sell low? And most good teams have at least two serviceable bigs. Duren doesn’t have to go.

[7r5ur]

I don't really see which big on the market we can get. There's no big on the market that can shoot as far as I can see. Even if you consider Valanciunas a "Stretch big" (I wouldn't, he shot 30% last year and has never shot on any volume).

If you commit a bunch of money to another center that can't shoot and keep Duren, you're basically punting on Ausar. You can't really have 3 non-shooters in the rotation.

Better to play Stewart as the backup 5 that he should be (or Duren as the backup). If Stewart were on the free agent market we'd be saying to bring him in to play the 5. Yet, somehow we seem to have just accepted that the coaching staff will play him out of position at the 4.

I think if you bring in a Claxton or a Hartenstein, a far more ideal backup would be Stewart. Having Duren as the backup would basically guarantee our spacing woes. And I do think Duren's trade value will naturally go down if we start playing him like 18-20mpg off the bench. That's how it goes. Ivey's trade value dropped the moment Monty benched him. Suddenly teams think they can come in and low-ball.

[Kp junior]

I don’t think we got to see a healthy Grimes play last year. I’m hoping he’s not only rotation worthy, but pushes Ivey hard to start.

Grimes is the perfect archetype to start next to Cade at the 2. Defensive glove and low usage 3 point shooter. The question is - is he good enough. On current evidence sadly that is a not even close, but hey we’re due some luck - maybe it was the injury making him terrible?


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Disagree. The perfect fit next to Cade is a better ball-handler than Cade. Of course he's going to have the ball in his hands, but both he and the team are better off when he's not the primary ball-handler. That became evident this season.

.

I dunno I reckon prime Clay Thompson would go great next to Cade and he’s that non ball handler, excellent defender, pure 3 point shooter. Just like Grimes


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[uncleoswald]

There are plenty of guys not of NBA caliber who can teach Duren how to play defense. If they sign the likes of Hartenstein, they'll be doing so as a contingency against the possibility of Jalen being terrible on defense again and, presumably, so that they have someone to push him.

I don't want to sign any of those guys unless we're trading Duren and they are replacing him.

why? i think the wolves have shown the benefits of investing in your frontcourt. i think we both agree duren isn't necessarily a finished product. i think it could - key word, could, possibly - be beneficial to sign a center and not ask duren to do too much. especially if the center could pick and pop.

[Snakebites]

There are plenty of guys not of NBA caliber who can teach Duren how to play defense. If they sign the likes of Hartenstein, they'll be doing so as a contingency against the possibility of Jalen being terrible on defense again and, presumably, so that they have someone to push him.

I don't want to sign any of those guys unless we're trading Duren and they are replacing him.

why? i think the wolves have shown the benefits of investing in your frontcourt. i think we both agree duren isn't necessarily a finished product. i think it could - key word, could, possibly - be beneficial to sign a center and not ask duren to do too much. especially if the center could pick and pop.

Towns and Gobert have proven to be complements both offensively and defensively. KAT has become a passable defender on the perimeter and was always one of the best outside shooting bigs of all time. That complements Gobert’s ability as a roll man and defensive backstop.

I don’t see Duren developing an outside shot nor do I see any big in the draft we could take becoming a stretch.

So no, I wouldn’t do it.

One team playing two bigs together effectively doesn’t mean any team can do it with any two bigs.

[Kalamazoo317]

Dallas also showed the value of a solid rotation of bigs.

[Snakebites]

Dallas also showed the value of a solid rotation of bigs.

They didn’t use multiple lottery picks to get them though.

I don’t meant to use the 5th pick on a backup center who can’t play with Duren and if we don’t think Duren projects as a starter we should trade him.

[Kalamazoo317]

Dallas also showed the value of a solid rotation of bigs.

They didn’t use multiple lottery picks to get them though.

I don’t meant to use the 5th pick on a backup center who can’t play with Duren and if we don’t think Duren projects as a starter we should trade him.

They got Lively at pick 12 (one higher than Duren), and traded Richaun Holmes and what turned out to be pick 26 this year for Gafford.

They also haven't gotten lottery picks for five years in a row (and six of them at that), so they haven't had the opportunity to put that much capital into it. In our position, given what assets they *did* give up, seems they might've been willing to.

[Kalamazoo317]

Also, we're now at Ivey, Cade, Ausar, and Duren for lottery picks on the team. Are we really thinking they're all locked in as starters just because we picked them high? Does it need to be start or trade for them?

[LaSheed]

Vege you are a legend.

To go on the trade board and call other teams players complete garbage was absolutely hilarious to read. I almost 100% disagree with you but it still made my night.

[LaSheed]

Dallas also showed the value of a solid rotation of bigs.

They didn’t use multiple lottery picks to get them though.

I don’t meant to use the 5th pick on a backup center who can’t play with Duren and if we don’t think Duren projects as a starter we should trade him.

I'm with Snakebites here. I want Clingan. He's actually my favorite prospect on the board but I also am not giving up on a 20 year old prospect in Duren. Completely have to get spending the #5 pick on a Center out of my head. In no way shape or form do I want Hartenstein or Claxton. I'm simply not investing in the Center position again until I know what I have on the wings.

The return we would get isn't nearly what the rewards would be if Duren gets it together.

[TPA]

Duren gets bodied by the bigger centers in the league and he doesn't seem to have the fight in him to use his athleticism to battle. Clingan would be a solution. We'll need a C with size and rim protection who can bang with the 7+ footers. I'd rather roll the dice on him as a cost-controlled prospect vs. spending big on a crop of established FA's with similar ceilings.

[bstein14]

Clingan would be a solid pick at #5 and I'm fine with him and Duren splitting minutes to start this season and then eventually going more minutes to whoever shows they are playing better. They are both 20 year olds with pretty big upside still at this point.

This would keep us from having to spend any money in FA on a center. NBA.com has him as our pick right now. I agree just because we pick him at #5 (or whoever we pick) it doesn't mean they need to play huge minutes as a starter right away I'm fine with any of our picks being 18-20 MPG backups we aren't picking at the top of a stacked draft loaded with future stars if you get a long term starting center at #5 that's great even if it takes a few years before they are a starter.

That said, If Clingan is gone I'm fine with getting Jonas V to split time with Duren at center as well or pushing Stew to backup center and getting a new 3/4 to pair on the wings with Ausar and Font.

[WuTang_CMB]

james edwards

The Detroit Pistons’ busy offseason made some ground a few weeks ago with the hiring of Trajan Langdon as president of basketball operations. While that decision was the most pivotal move to come this summer, it’s not the final tough decision Detroit will have to make.

Per team sources, owner Tom Gores has given Langdon the ability to make changes to the front office and coaching staff as he sees fit. The first domino to fall in that regard came last week when The Athletic reported that the team and general manager Troy Weaver were parting ways. It is believed that the organization is now evaluating the coaching staff, including head coach Monty Williams, who signed a six-year, $73 million contract this time last year.

The 2024 NBA Draft is this month, and the Pistons hold the No. 5 pick despite having an NBA– and franchise-worst 14 wins this past season. Could they trade the pick? Free agency is not far away, either, and Detroit is projected to have $65 million in cap space, which is the most in the league. Will the Pistons use the space to take on bad contracts for assets and continue to build with the youth as the top priority? Will they trade to spend big to add more proven NBA talent?

All of these questions will be answered eventually.

In the meantime, I’ve decided to put out a call for questions to try and provide insight and some of my thoughts on these particular situations. Part 2 of this mailbag will be out Friday. Let’s get into it.


Langdon is clearly qualified and deserving, but with the Pistons needing to show much improvement (and quickly), wouldn’t it have been better to hire someone proven, who’s already been successful? (Dennis Lindsey, John Hammond?) — @Nick_Nice21

I get where you’re coming from as Langdon has never been the head decision-maker running an NBA team, but I don’t think it is fair to say he’s not “proven.”

Langdon has been with the New Orleans Pelicans since 2019, and, to my knowledge, has had a very powerful voice when it comes to basketball decisions in New Orleans, despite being under David Griffin, who relied upon Langdon heavily. The Pelicans made the postseason three times in the five years that Langdon was general manager, and that is with Zion Williamson missing big chunks of seasons, including an entire season due to injuries. New Orleans also won 40-plus games twice in those five years. Langdon helped build a sustainable product off the heels of trading Anthony Davis, and, while the Pelicans haven’t won anything significant, it has been a legitimately solid team with and without Williamson while still building for the future at the same time.

Furthermore, Langdon was an assistant general manager for the Brooklyn Nets prior to going to New Orleans. He has the proper experience you’d want in a president of basketball operations. Also, he’s fairly young and could be around for a long time if things go well.

The Pistons tend to gravitate toward decision-makers, coaches who are headline-grabbing names, people who have had success elsewhere. It’s understandable, but it hasn’t worked out well for them yet. I like the idea of going after someone with something to prove.

Langdon has been preparing for this moment since he stopped playing. Every job he’s had along the way sets him up perfectly for what he’s about to embark on in Detroit. Just because he hasn’t done it, doesn’t mean he can’t.

Think about the first “big boy” job you tried to get. You probably didn’t have the experience yet to get it, but you know you’d crush it if given the opportunity. Then, you got the job and crushed it.

I’m all for giving someone new a chance.

This is the $1 million question right now, yeah?

I’m 50-50 on Williams returning. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Langdon’s introductory press conference hasn’t yet been announced and Williams’ future is still a swirling question. I don’t know this for a fact, but I can’t imagine Langdon would be trotted out in front of the media until Williams’ future is determined, one way or another.

Williams currently has two things working in his favor: he’s owed a lot of money, and he did not have a good roster last season. He’s not absent of blame for what happened this past year. But it isn’t disputable that Detroit’s roster wasn’t very balanced … or good. Over 3o players suited up. Thirty!

Now, on the flip side, Williams has some stuff working against him. The head coach got 62 games out of Cade Cunningham, who had a statistical season almost identical to that of All-Star Paolo Banchero, and still only managed to win 14 games (which included a historic 28-game losing streak). The year before, Dwane Casey won 17 games as head coach. He only got 12 games of Cunningham due to injury, had a lesser-experienced Jaden Ivey and Jalen Duren, and it was clear the organization was trying to win the Victor Wembanyama sweepstakes after Cunningham underwent season-ending shin surgery. Casey’s team still won more games than the one Williams coached — and Williams’ Pistons were trying to win. That’s a hard truth to swallow. When you didn’t think it could get worse, it somehow did.

As for other realistic free-agent options, I think Detroit goes heavily after the likes of Malik Monk, Nic Claxton and Gary Harris. Monk feels like someone the Pistons will heavily prioritize due to the team’s need for legitimate 3-point shooting and off-the-dribble shot creation. Claxton would address the rim protection woes. Harris, despite usually missing several games a season due to injury, is the exact type of 3-and-D role player the Pistons could desperately use.

If the Pistons decide to keep the No. 5 pick, who is your best-case scenario at five (not including Sarr)? — @PeteyMac84

Earlier this week, I looked at prospects who fit the type of mold Langdon may prioritize in a player by looking at how New Orleans drafted during his time there. I came away feeling that, if Detroit were to keep its No. 5 pick, that it would prioritize a tall wing who has a good shooting base and potential defensive upside.

With all that said, “the best-case scenario” is probably France’s Zaccharie Risacher. I don’t believe he’ll be there at No. 5, but who knows. This draft is a crapshoot all up and down the board. Risacher is a 6-foot-8 (although he only has a 6-foot-7 wingspan) wing and feels like a connective offensive piece with upside defensively because of how well he moves his feet. His shooting this season overseas is promising, but he has to prove the improvements are real at the next level. Risacher has been lights out as a 3-point shooter in the top French league this season, but he was mediocre-to-bad previously and is shooting in the low 70s on his free throws this year.

There are concerns about Risacher’s finishing around the rim in the half court, but if his shooting has legitimately turned a corner, that and the spacing of the NBA could improve those numbers.

[zeebneeb]

^^^to the above, I fully expect the Pistons to sign Monk. He would be a great, and much needed scorer on the team. As for drafting Clingan, eh, I wouldn't count on it. Looking at draft history of the Pels, and Trajons history, I would start looking at shooting, defending, wing types. Would not surprise me if he tries to move up to nab Risacher.

I want in order;

Sheppard
Knecht
Cligan

I'd be happy with any of them, but Trajon may have his eye on someone not even on our radar.