**NBA Draft Discussion 2024**

[RexBoyWonder]

Read on Twitter

i want

[MettaWorldPanda]

Where is 2 years coming from? ACLs are 6-8 month injuries these days for professional athletes with being back to 100% performance within 12 months as if never even injured (especially players so young and afforded professional rehab resources). Even if it was a full ACL tear (which it's not), he should be back for part of his rookie season if he and the organization want him to start getting reps.

I mentioned two years cause the first actual NBA year is the learning curve year. Spo is also very stubborn with young players if they don’t come in with alot of experience.

Sounds like you're ready to forego drafting young players because they take time. With how the CBA is structured with drafting teams getting to effectively keep control of top talent for the first 6+ or so years of their career, you gotta eat the early developmental phases for top talent.

Half of Topic's game is his BBIQ. It shouldn't take him 2 years to learn how to run a NBA pick and roll and earn minutes over Alondes Williams and the next G League option in the pipeline. It doesn't have to be so complicated. There are no guarantees with any alternatives.

I mean sure I'm ok with drafting and developing young players but it all depends on the approach of the organization. Last year we went with a weathered 22 year old 4 year college player who was able to contribute right away over some other players that were younger and ranked ahead of him. We are also about to lose two players due to the cap in Martin and Highsmith. Most of the players I've been coveting in this draft are all siding on the older side in Devin Carter and Tristan da Silva. Players that seem obvious that can come in day one and get minutes under the very demanding Spo.

[RexBoyWonder]

3 new players added to the workout list

Zyon Pullin Florida PG Sr

Marcus Domask Illinois SG Sr

Jesse Edwards West Virginia C Sr

Very typical of us to workout the most obscure names nobody is talking about.

Hopefully it's for the undrafted 2 way deals.

Jesse Edwards is the most intriguing - elite size and surprisingly a great athlete.

Pullin looks kinda solid, I'd take him over Lowry.

[greg4012]

Where is 2 years coming from? ACLs are 6-8 month injuries these days for professional athletes with being back to 100% performance within 12 months as if never even injured (especially players so young and afforded professional rehab resources). Even if it was a full ACL tear (which it's not), he should be back for part of his rookie season if he and the organization want him to start getting reps.

I mentioned two years cause the first actual NBA year is the learning curve year. Spo is also very stubborn with young players if they don’t come in with alot of experience.

MWP is right. Its two year to "fully" recover. A player cleared to play doesnt mean he fully recovered. The second year when a player returns he is still rehabbing.

"Joint health and function is not indicated until two-years after ACLR. We advocate significantly delaying returning to sport to at least two years after ACLR. Anterior cruciate ligament reconstruction."

"Athletes passed return to sport criteria 232 ± 99 days after ACLR. One year after ACL reconstruction 95% had returned to sport, 78% at their preinjury level. Two years after ACL reconstruction all athletes had returned to sport, 95% at their preinjury level and only one athlete had a second ACL injury."

Can you provide the source and year (ideally the years of data that the study took from)?

The timeline has shifted a lot in the past 10+ years

For most people, full recovery can happen rather quickly. “Typically, by that 3-month mark you're pretty much back to your normal daily life,” says Vignona. However, for athletes and those looking to get back to a sport, recovery can take some time. For this group, 8 months to a year after surgery is the average timeline for getting back to their previous athletic level.

https://www.hss.edu/article_acl-surgery-recovery.asp#:~:text=%E2%80%9CTypically%2C%20by%20that%203%2D,to%20their%20previous%20athletic%20level.

It also largely depends on the caliber of athlete. But young professional athletes are increasingly getting back to 100% performance and explosion around 1 year post surgery (with ability to play and be 100% medically cleared before that).

This is a good comprehensive article on the matter (citing stuff mostly from a 2019 study, which is still a little stale):

https://www.learn.physio/p/blogposts-aclr-return-time

NBA athletes however were able to return to pre-injury levels of performance in seasons 2 and 3 following ACLR; whilst NFL players continued to see significant decreases in performance through seasons 2 and 3.

Most importantly, we're not talking about a full ACL tear here.

We don't know the details. That's why my original post was qualified with him getting medical clearance for anticipated full recovery.

[greg4012]

I mentioned two years cause the first actual NBA year is the learning curve year. Spo is also very stubborn with young players if they don’t come in with alot of experience.

Sounds like you're ready to forego drafting young players because they take time. With how the CBA is structured with drafting teams getting to effectively keep control of top talent for the first 6+ or so years of their career, you gotta eat the early developmental phases for top talent.

Half of Topic's game is his BBIQ. It shouldn't take him 2 years to learn how to run a NBA pick and roll and earn minutes over Alondes Williams and the next G League option in the pipeline. It doesn't have to be so complicated. There are no guarantees with any alternatives.

I mean sure I'm ok with drafting and developing young players but it all depends on the approach of the organization. Last year we went with a weathered 22 year old 4 year college player who was able to contribute right away over some other players that were younger and ranked ahead of him. We are also about to lose two players due to the cap in Martin and Highsmith. Most of the players I've been coveting in this draft are all siding on the older side in Devin Carter and Tristan da Silva. Players that seem obvious that can come in day one and get minutes under the very demanding Spo.

It all depends on the priority. Is the priority to serve the next 2 seasons? Or is the priority to maximize the overall benefit and contribution of the pick.

Some players can somewhat serve both. Every player is different. I want the best possible player that can benefit Miami for the next 5-10 years.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Sounds like you're ready to forego drafting young players because they take time. With how the CBA is structured with drafting teams getting to effectively keep control of top talent for the first 6+ or so years of their career, you gotta eat the early developmental phases for top talent.

Half of Topic's game is his BBIQ. It shouldn't take him 2 years to learn how to run a NBA pick and roll and earn minutes over Alondes Williams and the next G League option in the pipeline. It doesn't have to be so complicated. There are no guarantees with any alternatives.

I mean sure I'm ok with drafting and developing young players but it all depends on the approach of the organization. Last year we went with a weathered 22 year old 4 year college player who was able to contribute right away over some other players that were younger and ranked ahead of him. We are also about to lose two players due to the cap in Martin and Highsmith. Most of the players I've been coveting in this draft are all siding on the older side in Devin Carter and Tristan da Silva. Players that seem obvious that can come in day one and get minutes under the very demanding Spo.

It all depends on the priority. Is the priority to serve the next 2 seasons? Or is the priority to maximize the overall benefit and contribution of the pick.

Some players can somewhat serve both. Every player is different. I want the best possible player than can benefit Miami for the next 5-10 years.

Will definitely be an interesting decision to be made if the opportunity does arise. I've had Topic going in my self made mock drafts before the injury news to the Jazz and if the prognosis is not as bad as it seems I would probably still peg the Jazz to take him at 10. That team with all it's little guards are begging for a big PG like him and they definitely would have no problem bringing him along slowly.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Read on Twitter

[twix2500]

I mentioned two years cause the first actual NBA year is the learning curve year. Spo is also very stubborn with young players if they don’t come in with alot of experience.

MWP is right. Its two year to "fully" recover. A player cleared to play doesnt mean he fully recovered. The second year when a player returns he is still rehabbing.

"Joint health and function is not indicated until two-years after ACLR. We advocate significantly delaying returning to sport to at least two years after ACLR. Anterior cruciate ligament reconstruction."

"Athletes passed return to sport criteria 232 ± 99 days after ACLR. One year after ACL reconstruction 95% had returned to sport, 78% at their preinjury level. Two years after ACL reconstruction all athletes had returned to sport, 95% at their preinjury level and only one athlete had a second ACL injury."

Can you provide the source and year (ideally the years of data that the study took from)?

The timeline has shifted a lot in the past 10+ years

For most people, full recovery can happen rather quickly. “Typically, by that 3-month mark you're pretty much back to your normal daily life,” says Vignona. However, for athletes and those looking to get back to a sport, recovery can take some time. For this group, 8 months to a year after surgery is the average timeline for getting back to their previous athletic level.

https://www.hss.edu/article_acl-surgery-recovery.asp#:~:text=%E2%80%9CTypically%2C%20by%20that%203%2D,to%20their%20previous%20athletic%20level.

It also largely depends on the caliber of athlete. But young professional athletes are increasingly getting back to 100% performance and explosion around 1 year post surgery (with ability to play and be 100% medically cleared before that).

This is a good comprehensive article on the matter (citing stuff mostly from a 2019 study, which is still a little stale):

https://www.learn.physio/p/blogposts-aclr-return-time

NBA athletes however were able to return to pre-injury levels of performance in seasons 2 and 3 following ACLR; whilst NFL players continued to see significant decreases in performance through seasons 2 and 3.

Most importantly, we're not talking about a full ACL tear here.

We don't know the details. That's why my original post was qualified with him getting medical clearance for anticipated full recovery.

I can provide links but much of where I get info from you have to have an account. I am sure the articles are posted elsewhere for free but it will take me a little search to find the article. However, I am a former athlete with knee issues (I currently need two lateral patellar release) and work in the medical field and unfortunately have tons of friends who are former atheletes with all these injuries. When a surgeon says " normal daily life" or when they are cleared to play it doesnt mean fully recovered. Going back to your daily ativities is part of your rehab, and much of the thought is that is the point where the surgery healed enough that you will not cause any damage utilizing their repaired area for work. You will still have soreness and swelling, stiffness and lack of flexibility because scar tissue growth needs to be broken down etc that takes a while.

As soon as I get time I will find a good breakdown on the healing process of ACL surgery and post it for you.

[greg4012]

MWP is right. Its two year to "fully" recover. A player cleared to play doesnt mean he fully recovered. The second year when a player returns he is still rehabbing.

"Joint health and function is not indicated until two-years after ACLR. We advocate significantly delaying returning to sport to at least two years after ACLR. Anterior cruciate ligament reconstruction."

"Athletes passed return to sport criteria 232 ± 99 days after ACLR. One year after ACL reconstruction 95% had returned to sport, 78% at their preinjury level. Two years after ACL reconstruction all athletes had returned to sport, 95% at their preinjury level and only one athlete had a second ACL injury."

Can you provide the source and year (ideally the years of data that the study took from)?

The timeline has shifted a lot in the past 10+ years

For most people, full recovery can happen rather quickly. “Typically, by that 3-month mark you're pretty much back to your normal daily life,” says Vignona. However, for athletes and those looking to get back to a sport, recovery can take some time. For this group, 8 months to a year after surgery is the average timeline for getting back to their previous athletic level.

https://www.hss.edu/article_acl-surgery-recovery.asp#:~:text=%E2%80%9CTypically%2C%20by%20that%203%2D,to%20their%20previous%20athletic%20level.

It also largely depends on the caliber of athlete. But young professional athletes are increasingly getting back to 100% performance and explosion around 1 year post surgery (with ability to play and be 100% medically cleared before that).

This is a good comprehensive article on the matter (citing stuff mostly from a 2019 study, which is still a little stale):

https://www.learn.physio/p/blogposts-aclr-return-time

NBA athletes however were able to return to pre-injury levels of performance in seasons 2 and 3 following ACLR; whilst NFL players continued to see significant decreases in performance through seasons 2 and 3.

Most importantly, we're not talking about a full ACL tear here.

We don't know the details. That's why my original post was qualified with him getting medical clearance for anticipated full recovery.

I can provide links but much of where I get info from you have to have an account. I am sure the articles are posted elsewhere for free but it will take me a little search to find the article. However, I am a former athlete with knee issues (I currently need two lateral patellar release) and work in the medical field and unfortunately have tons of friends who are former atheletes with all these injuries. When a surgeon says " normal daily life" or when they are cleared to play it doesnt mean fully recovered. Going back to your daily ativities is part of your rehab, and much of the thought is that is the point where the surgery healed enough that you will not cause any damage utilizing their repaired area for work. You will still have soreness and swelling, stiffness and lack of flexibility because scar tissue growth needs to be broken down etc that takes a while.

As soon as I get time I will find a good breakdown on the healing process of ACL surgery and post it for you.

Good stuff. Happy to learn more.

I never made it past college athletics, but fortunately I only had one knee surgery and it was arthroscopic. But I've definitely been around a ton of ACL tears and seen the recoveries unfold and I'm constantly impressed by the more recent performances after 12+ months of top level athletes

[MettaWorldPanda]

MWP is right. Its two year to "fully" recover. A player cleared to play doesnt mean he fully recovered. The second year when a player returns he is still rehabbing.

"Joint health and function is not indicated until two-years after ACLR. We advocate significantly delaying returning to sport to at least two years after ACLR. Anterior cruciate ligament reconstruction."

"Athletes passed return to sport criteria 232 ± 99 days after ACLR. One year after ACL reconstruction 95% had returned to sport, 78% at their preinjury level. Two years after ACL reconstruction all athletes had returned to sport, 95% at their preinjury level and only one athlete had a second ACL injury."

Can you provide the source and year (ideally the years of data that the study took from)?

The timeline has shifted a lot in the past 10+ years

For most people, full recovery can happen rather quickly. “Typically, by that 3-month mark you're pretty much back to your normal daily life,” says Vignona. However, for athletes and those looking to get back to a sport, recovery can take some time. For this group, 8 months to a year after surgery is the average timeline for getting back to their previous athletic level.

https://www.hss.edu/article_acl-surgery-recovery.asp#:~:text=%E2%80%9CTypically%2C%20by%20that%203%2D,to%20their%20previous%20athletic%20level.

It also largely depends on the caliber of athlete. But young professional athletes are increasingly getting back to 100% performance and explosion around 1 year post surgery (with ability to play and be 100% medically cleared before that).

This is a good comprehensive article on the matter (citing stuff mostly from a 2019 study, which is still a little stale):

https://www.learn.physio/p/blogposts-aclr-return-time

NBA athletes however were able to return to pre-injury levels of performance in seasons 2 and 3 following ACLR; whilst NFL players continued to see significant decreases in performance through seasons 2 and 3.

Most importantly, we're not talking about a full ACL tear here.

We don't know the details. That's why my original post was qualified with him getting medical clearance for anticipated full recovery.

I can provide links but much of where I get info from you have to have an account. I am sure the articles are posted elsewhere for free but it will take me a little search to find the article. However, I am a former athlete with knee issues (I currently need two lateral patellar release) and work in the medical field and unfortunately have tons of friends who are former atheletes with all these injuries. When a surgeon says " normal daily life" or when they are cleared to play it doesnt mean fully recovered. Going back to your daily ativities is part of your rehab, and much of the thought is that is the point where the surgery healed enough that you will not cause any damage utilizing their repaired area for work. You will still have soreness and swelling, stiffness and lack of flexibility because scar tissue growth needs to be broken down etc that takes a while.

As soon as I get time I will find a good breakdown on the healing process of ACL surgery and post it for you.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32271529/no-one-knows-frame-kawhi-leonard-return-acl-injury-say-la-clippers

Kawhi was also diagnosed at the time with a partial ACL tear. The preliminary rosy outlook did not turn out as planned.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/clippers-kawhi-leonard-says-recovery-from-acl-injury-a-two-year-process-after-first-game-in-nearly-a-month/

[greg4012]

Can you provide the source and year (ideally the years of data that the study took from)?

The timeline has shifted a lot in the past 10+ years



https://www.hss.edu/article_acl-surgery-recovery.asp#:~:text=%E2%80%9CTypically%2C%20by%20that%203%2D,to%20their%20previous%20athletic%20level.

It also largely depends on the caliber of athlete. But young professional athletes are increasingly getting back to 100% performance and explosion around 1 year post surgery (with ability to play and be 100% medically cleared before that).

This is a good comprehensive article on the matter (citing stuff mostly from a 2019 study, which is still a little stale):

https://www.learn.physio/p/blogposts-aclr-return-time



Most importantly, we're not talking about a full ACL tear here.

We don't know the details. That's why my original post was qualified with him getting medical clearance for anticipated full recovery.

I can provide links but much of where I get info from you have to have an account. I am sure the articles are posted elsewhere for free but it will take me a little search to find the article. However, I am a former athlete with knee issues (I currently need two lateral patellar release) and work in the medical field and unfortunately have tons of friends who are former atheletes with all these injuries. When a surgeon says " normal daily life" or when they are cleared to play it doesnt mean fully recovered. Going back to your daily ativities is part of your rehab, and much of the thought is that is the point where the surgery healed enough that you will not cause any damage utilizing their repaired area for work. You will still have soreness and swelling, stiffness and lack of flexibility because scar tissue growth needs to be broken down etc that takes a while.

As soon as I get time I will find a good breakdown on the healing process of ACL surgery and post it for you.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32271529/no-one-knows-frame-kawhi-leonard-return-acl-injury-say-la-clippers

Kawhi was also diagnosed at the time with a partial ACL tear. The preliminary rosy outlook did not turn out as planned.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/clippers-kawhi-leonard-says-recovery-from-acl-injury-a-two-year-process-after-first-game-in-nearly-a-month/

Dude was 30 and is notoriously difficult with injury recovery. Devil is in the details for if surgery is needed and the type of surgery needed. We don't have the details lol.

Is the point that Miami shouldn't want to draft Topic even if they feel comfortable with the details of his injury and recovery timeline and believe he is the best prospect? Or just that he won't be the best prospect? Or that no one should feel comfortable with the injury prospects for him?

A lot of low grade ACL tears don't require surgery and have much faster recovery timelines back to 100% than full repairs. I can't pretend to know details of how partial vs full ACL tear surgeries compare.

I simply stated I'm down for Miami drafting Topic if they feel comfortable with the medicals.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Information about a partially torn ACL not coming out until NBA doctors inspecting the knee at Euro combine not coming out until now. Original injury happened May 14th and all reports came out that he avoided a serious injury. He'll be coming to states next to get surgery performed by Dr Neal El Attrache. Topic's handlers going to be like nothing to see here he'll be good in 3 months lol.

https://www.si.com/nba/draft/newsfeed/nba-draft-nikola-topic-avoids-major-injury-01hxwnk9r9mf

Reported as left knee sprain originally.

[Wiltside]

If Topic slips due to the partially torn ACL, I would 100% be taking him. It’s a Porter Jr type situation, IMO. Worth taking a shot on him at 15 if he’s on the table, we can develop him and get him on the Heat conditioning program while he rehabs and he might be ready post ASB to have an impact. Kid turns 19 in August, I’m not worried about him having no availability for the first half of the year.

[greg4012]

Information about a partially torn ACL not coming out until NBA doctors inspecting the knee at Euro combine not coming out until now. Original injury happened May 14th and all reports came out that he avoided a serious injury. He'll be coming to states next to get surgery performed by Dr Neal El Attrache. Topic's handlers going to be like nothing to see here he'll be good in 3 months lol.

https://www.si.com/nba/draft/newsfeed/nba-draft-nikola-topic-avoids-major-injury-01hxwnk9r9mf

Reported as left knee sprain originally.

To be fair every sprain is a partial tear lol

Gotta play the game

[MettaWorldPanda]

Information about a partially torn ACL not coming out until NBA doctors inspecting the knee at Euro combine not coming out until now. Original injury happened May 14th and all reports came out that he avoided a serious injury. He'll be coming to states next to get surgery performed by Dr Neal El Attrache. Topic's handlers going to be like nothing to see here he'll be good in 3 months lol.

https://www.si.com/nba/draft/newsfeed/nba-draft-nikola-topic-avoids-major-injury-01hxwnk9r9mf

Reported as left knee sprain originally.

To be fair every sprain is a partial tear lol

Gotta play the game

true true. Gotta protect that draft status as long as you possibly can.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Read on Twitter

Looks like some other fan bases have the same idea lol. I hope they do let Carter slide please. Chicago does have the largest serbian community in the US. Could be a popular pick for them with Caruso heading into his free agent year.

[twix2500]

Just want to remind you all. Reece Beekman the best defensive point guard in this draft by far

Watch on YouTube

[Kobewade11]

Just want to remind you all. Reece Beekman the best defensive point guard in this draft by far

Watch on YouTube

Impressive defender. Hows his offense?

[lastb1ckman]

Read on Twitter

Looks like some other fan bases have the same idea lol. I hope they do let Carter slide please. Chicago does have the largest serbian community in the US. Could be a popular pick for them with Caruso heading into his free agent year.

What the Bulls need to do (besides blowing it up 2 years ago) is not get another guard. They have too many, and not enough big men.

[Wiltside]

Read on Twitter

Looks like some other fan bases have the same idea lol. I hope they do let Carter slide please. Chicago does have the largest serbian community in the US. Could be a popular pick for them with Caruso heading into his free agent year.

Can the Bulls afford to take another injured guard after the Ball fiasco? Not sure.