Brewers/Phillies Series

[Thunder Muscle]

Ashby starting today

Well that doesn’t inspire hope of avoiding a sweep.

[msiris]

I rest my case.

???????? Odds are the Brewers will never win a WS. Have they ever had a payroll higher than that 7.78 mark? I bet not. And there are more big market teams than the 4 you mentioned.

Wut.

If the AVERAGE is 7.79, that meets LOTS of teams below that mark have won it. Every team that has won it with a top-5 payroll has been offset by some team or combination of teams that won it with a lower payroll in order to average out to 7.79. Every team that won it with a top-3 payroll is offset by even more.

Teams are often better off with lower payrolls, too. The veterans making tons of money are literally often less productive than the future stars in arbitration now that older guys can't extend their prime with tons of PEDs. Markets with a lot of money are under pressure to make bad investments and fall flat on their face, which they do on a regular basis. It's far more important to be an intelligent, efficient organization than it is to have a huge payroll. That said, it would be nice to be both, like the Dodgers, but they still lose in the playoffs on a regular basis so...

Only 4 teams have won the WS in 29 years from the bottom half of the payroll ranks. Over the last 25 years the Brewers avg payroll rank is 20.72 Only once in 25 years have we been in the top 15. Just not great odds.

[coolhandluke121]

???????? Odds are the Brewers will never win a WS. Have they ever had a payroll higher than that 7.78 mark? I bet not. And there are more big market teams than the 4 you mentioned.

Wut.

If the AVERAGE is 7.79, that meets LOTS of teams below that mark have won it. Every team that has won it with a top-5 payroll has been offset by some team or combination of teams that won it with a lower payroll in order to average out to 7.79. Every team that won it with a top-3 payroll is offset by even more.

Teams are often better off with lower payrolls, too. The veterans making tons of money are literally often less productive than the future stars in arbitration now that older guys can't extend their prime with tons of PEDs. Markets with a lot of money are under pressure to make bad investments and fall flat on their face, which they do on a regular basis. It's far more important to be an intelligent, efficient organization than it is to have a huge payroll. That said, it would be nice to be both, like the Dodgers, but they still lose in the playoffs on a regular basis so...

Only 4 teams have won the WS in 29 years from the bottom half of the payroll ranks. Over the last 25 years the Brewers avg payroll rank is 20.72 Only once in 25 years have we been in the top 15. Just not great odds.

Fine, but you asked how many times the Brewers have been above the average WS champion payroll, which really has nothing to do with top-15. Also, bottom payroll teams often include deliberate rebuilding teams, so that skews the data because those teams aren't even trying to win.

I personally would much rather continue to have a low payroll and still be better than half the big spenders in baseball because the franchise is managed so much better, while most of the other half of the big spenders are just as disappointed as we are most years in the playoffs. Hell, I'd prefer to trade even more highly-paid late-arbitration veterans because we just keep getting more WAR out of the guys they acquire than our trade partners get out of the guys we trade away. It happens again and again and again and it's absolutely hilarious to me, yet we still have people getting mad every time we have to trade away a Burnes, no matter how many times it works in our favor. I mean, what the actual you-know-what is up with that?

[msiris]

I rest my case.

???????? Odds are the Brewers will never win a WS. Have they ever had a payroll higher than that 7.78 mark? I bet not. And there are more big market teams than the 4 you mentioned.

They don't need to have a payroll higher than 8th. Just going by average alone clearly they can win it all with a payroll a lot lower.

Like I said, you just need to get in to have a chance, and the Brewers have been in five of the last six years. The year they didn't make it they won 86 games and took 2nd in the division. They're probably going to make it in this season. Payroll and market size hasn't been an issue at all.

They've got a first place team and the 2nd best farm system in baseball. There's no reason for doom and gloom.

Its not all gloom and doom. Just because we hve a great farm team doesn't mean most will pan out. You said money spent doesn't matter and I proved otherwise. You know there are more big market teams than small market teams right? Love the Brewers but hate MLB because there is no salary cap and that is unfair. I am just realistic thats all.

[coolhandluke121]

Sorry, all this belongs in the transaction thread but it came because we're playing a big market team, whose ability to spend has caused them to be so much more successful than the Brewers for the last decade... oh wait.

It just comes off as entitled to scoff at all the success the Brewers have had since 2016, especially with most of that success coming precisely because they are willing to make the moves that so many people say are holding them back. It's mind-numbing.

[msiris]

Wut.

If the AVERAGE is 7.79, that meets LOTS of teams below that mark have won it. Every team that has won it with a top-5 payroll has been offset by some team or combination of teams that won it with a lower payroll in order to average out to 7.79. Every team that won it with a top-3 payroll is offset by even more.

Teams are often better off with lower payrolls, too. The veterans making tons of money are literally often less productive than the future stars in arbitration now that older guys can't extend their prime with tons of PEDs. Markets with a lot of money are under pressure to make bad investments and fall flat on their face, which they do on a regular basis. It's far more important to be an intelligent, efficient organization than it is to have a huge payroll. That said, it would be nice to be both, like the Dodgers, but they still lose in the playoffs on a regular basis so...

Only 4 teams have won the WS in 29 years from the bottom half of the payroll ranks. Over the last 25 years the Brewers avg payroll rank is 20.72 Only once in 25 years have we been in the top 15. Just not great odds.

Fine, but you asked how many times the Brewers have been above the average WS champion payroll, which really has nothing to do with top-15. Also, bottom payroll teams often include deliberate rebuilding teams, so that skews the data because those teams aren't even trying to win.

I personally would much rather continue to have a low payroll and still be better than half the big spenders in baseball because the franchise is managed so much better, while most of the other half of the big spenders are just as disappointed as we are most years in the playoffs. Hell, I'd prefer to trade even more highly-paid late-arbitration veterans because we just keep getting more WAR out of the guys they acquire than our trade partners get out of the guys we trade away. It happens again and again and again and it's absolutely hilarious to me, yet we still have people getting mad every time we have to trade away a Burnes, no matter how many times it works in our favor. I mean, what the actual you-know-what is up with that?

That is funny indeed. But in all reality the whole point of playing baseball is to win it all right? Hard to do that when the odds are really stacked against you.

[msiris]

Sorry, all this belongs in the transaction thread but it came because we're playing a big market team, whose ability to spend has caused them to be so much more successful than the Brewers for the last decade... oh wait.

It just comes off as entitled to scoff at all the success the Brewers have had since 2016, especially with most of that success coming precisely because they are willing to make the moves that so many people say are holding them back. It's mind-numbing.

I am not saying the Brewers are holding back. They are trying but they are at a huge disadvantage. Philly fans can brag al they want but it must be nice to be able to buy anyone you want and keep all your studs even when your bad. We cant do that.

[coolhandluke121]

But in all reality the whole point of playing baseball is to win it all right? Hard to do that when the odds are really stacked against you.

The odds are stacked against EVERYONE. It's baseball. The ability to overspend is little more than the ability to be taken advantage of by over-priced free agents for many teams. I can hardly remember a time where I wished the Brewers had spent more. It means little compared to scouting, development, market sense, analytics, the pitching and catching labs, etc - all of which the Brewers have in spades.

[JimmyTheKid]

Back to my ongoing "why pinch hit for Chourio in every late game, high leverage situation" complaint. Can someone more baseball reference/analytics savvy than me find out how those (mostly AAAA) pinch hitters have fared?

[MickeyDavis]

Back to the Phillies series topic.

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[Turk Nowitzki]

The pitching has actually held together alright. The offense has just been completely nonexistent this series but the judging by their record and the ERA's of the guys the Phillies are throwing out there, they've been doing this to everyone.

[blazza18]

How many outs at home is that for us the last week or so?

[Turk Nowitzki]

"Just don't get swept" was my only request of this series. Too big of an ask apparently.

[Thunder Muscle]

"Just don't get swept" was my only request of this series. Too big of an ask apparently.

Same. The disappointing thing is all are going to be close losses too. Going to need to take 2 in Detroit to get some good vibes back.

[ReasonablySober]

Well that sucked.

[blazza18]

Never had the big hit that would’ve made a difference in any of the three games

[MickeyDavis]

How many outs at home is that for us the last week or so?

4 in this series, 12 for the season

[msiris]

"Just don't get swept" was my only request of this series. Too big of an ask apparently.

Same. The disappointing thing is all are going to be close losses too. Going to need to take 2 in Detroit to get some good vibes back.

I am not down on them. That Philly team is stacked pitching wise.