All things Anfernee Simons

[orlando_joe]

Coles starts have gone down over the last 3 years while Simons have gone up, or at least been trending that way.

Why is that, do you suppose?

Portland is a crap team and tanking.

True.

And yet Cole, supposedly improving started less often on a team starved for guard talent.

magic like defense and franz and paolo play point foward

[JRoy]

Portland is a crap team and tanking.

True.

And yet Cole, supposedly improving started less often on a team starved for guard talent.

magic like defense

Does ORL like advancing in the playoffs?

Will need some offense to complement that defense. Will need to hope for internal improvement or make a move. Maybe both.

[RichCollab]

Coles starts have gone down over the last 3 years while Simons have gone up, or at least been trending that way.

Why is that, do you suppose?

portland got worse and magic got better?
they are really both 6th men yes simons better he had 2 yrs to just shoot 3s in gym and dam and cj to learn from
cole had fultz a non shooter and thrown into fire

Cole couldn’t start over Fultz, who ought not to start anywhere in the nba.

Cole is a microwave scorer. That’s a bench role. He had a great start to the season.

Cole isn’t a core player so whatever happens happens with him.

I’m focused on getting our other starting guard.

[Audi]

keep simons

cole in 4 yrs over 6 yrs of simons career numbers

cole 1168 to simons 784 rb
cole 1032 to simons 928 ast
cole 103 simons 43 blks
cole 177 simons 140 stl
simons 4489 to cole 3385 pts

so in 2 more yrs simons has 1104 pts or 552 pts for 2 more yrs
yes magic keep cole,black and 2 firsts no problem

Why are you comparing total career numbers with zero context? You realize Cole averaged 27mpg his rookie year, while Simons averaged 7mpg during his? How many assists do you think a kid playing 7mpg in the shadow of Lillard is going to put up in comparison to a guy playing on starters minutes?

ok say its 4 yrs ...take first 2 yrs off simons ...simons will have less the difference is even more?

Ok, so take first 2 years off, you are still comparing the total assist numbers of an SG to a PG, who have two different expectations.

Luckily, we know what Simons looks like as a PG, because that's the role he played last season in Portland for the first time. Even though he played less games than Cole due to injury, we can still use per36 or per100 to atleast get a general idea of how many assists they would put up on equal minutes and possessions.

Simons per36 - 5.8 ast
Cole per36 - 4.7 ast

Simons per100 - 8 ast
Cole per100 - 6.4 ast

Cole IS a better rebounder. Always has been very good at it for his size and position...but we aren't lacking in the ability to rebound the ball (it can be better, but we shouldn't be relying on small guards to get us there when we have the size that we do)...we are lacking reliable perimeter shooting to bend defenses and space the floor. That's where Simons thrives. To the tune of being 3x Gary Harris' out there as far as 3pt threat/gravity is concerned.

[JRoy]

portland got worse and magic got better?
they are really both 6th men yes simons better he had 2 yrs to just shoot 3s in gym and dam and cj to learn from
cole had fultz a non shooter and thrown into fire

Cole couldn’t start over Fultz, who ought not to start anywhere in the nba.

Cole is a microwave scorer. That’s a bench role. He had a great start to the season.

Cole isn’t a core player so whatever happens happens with him.

I’m focused on getting our other starting guard.

Doesn’t need to be Simons, but Simons would provide something ORL doesn’t have.

Trae Young provides more but would dominate the ball.

Garland might be a good pickup but will cost the earth.

There are a number of guys that might do the job.

The question is cost and fit.

[orlando_joe]

Coles starts have gone down over the last 3 years while Simons have gone up, or at least been trending that way.

Why is that, do you suppose?

portland got worse and magic got better?
they are really both 6th men yes simons better he had 2 yrs to just shoot 3s in gym and dam and cj to learn from
cole had fultz a non shooter and thrown into fire

Cole couldn’t start over Fultz, who ought not to start anywhere in the nba.

also suggs and harris were starting guards
mosley kept 2nd unit together even with injurys to starting 5 he would go to 3rd string to start

[Residual-Heat]

portland got worse and magic got better?
they are really both 6th men yes simons better he had 2 yrs to just shoot 3s in gym and dam and cj to learn from
cole had fultz a non shooter and thrown into fire

Cole couldn’t start over Fultz, who ought not to start anywhere in the nba.

also suggs and harris were starting guards
mosley kept 2nd unit together even with injurys to starting 5 he would go to 3rd string to start

This is true. WCJ injured, Mosley started Goga over Mo Wagner. Fultz injured, Mosley started Black over Cole. Cole did close most games though IIRC.

[orlando_joe]

Why are you comparing total career numbers with zero context? You realize Cole averaged 27mpg his rookie year, while Simons averaged 7mpg during his? How many assists do you think a kid playing 7mpg in the shadow of Lillard is going to put up in comparison to a guy playing on starters minutes?

ok say its 4 yrs ...take first 2 yrs off simons ...simons will have less the difference is even more?

Ok, so take first 2 years off, you are still comparing the total assist numbers of an SG to a PG, who have two different expectations.

Luckily, we know what Simons looks like as a PG, because that's the role he played last season in Portland for the first time. Even though he played less games than Cole due to injury, we can still use per36 or per100 to atleast get a general idea of how many assists they would put up on equal minutes and possessions.

Simons per36 - 5.8 ast
Cole per36 - 4.7 ast

Simons per100 - 8 ast
Cole per100 - 6.4 ast

Cole IS a better rebounder. Always has been very good at it for his size and position...but we aren't lacking in the ability to rebound the ball (it can be better, but we shouldn't be relying on small guards to get us there when we have the size that we do)...we are lacking reliable perimeter shooting to bend defenses and space the floor. That's where Simons thrives. To the tune of being 3x Gary Harris' out there as far as 3pt threat/gravity is concerned.

last yr was cole worst yr we know he had something personal going on ...go to yr before..
also never said cole better? said simons not cole ,black and 2 top 5 protected first better and double the money
plus that is with simons as #1 option ball in hands all game...magic have franz and paolo
and ingles playing in 2nd unit

[Skybox]

portland got worse and magic got better?
they are really both 6th men yes simons better he had 2 yrs to just shoot 3s in gym and dam and cj to learn from
cole had fultz a non shooter and thrown into fire

Cole couldn’t start over Fultz, who ought not to start anywhere in the nba.

Cole is a microwave scorer. That’s a bench role. He had a great start to the season.

If Cole is a microwave...that would make Simons a nuclear reactor

[RichCollab]

Cole couldn’t start over Fultz, who ought not to start anywhere in the nba.

Cole is a microwave scorer. That’s a bench role. He had a great start to the season.

If Cole is a microwave...that would make Simons a nuclear reactor

Eh. Running up points playing on a terrible team. Not put much stock into it.

[Skybox]

Cole is a microwave scorer. That’s a bench role. He had a great start to the season.

If Cole is a microwave...that would make Simons a nuclear reactor

Eh. Running up points playing on a terrible team. Not put much stock into it.

that's a lot more impressive than NOT running up points on a terrible team. The guy can flat out shoot. Anybody clamoring for a Kennard should be looking a whole lot harder at a super-athletic, healthier, younger version who got 5.5 dimes per game and generally put up twice as many points.

[tiderulz]

ok say its 4 yrs ...take first 2 yrs off simons ...simons will have less the difference is even more?

Ok, so take first 2 years off, you are still comparing the total assist numbers of an SG to a PG, who have two different expectations.

Luckily, we know what Simons looks like as a PG, because that's the role he played last season in Portland for the first time. Even though he played less games than Cole due to injury, we can still use per36 or per100 to atleast get a general idea of how many assists they would put up on equal minutes and possessions.

Simons per36 - 5.8 ast
Cole per36 - 4.7 ast

Simons per100 - 8 ast
Cole per100 - 6.4 ast

Cole IS a better rebounder. Always has been very good at it for his size and position...but we aren't lacking in the ability to rebound the ball (it can be better, but we shouldn't be relying on small guards to get us there when we have the size that we do)...we are lacking reliable perimeter shooting to bend defenses and space the floor. That's where Simons thrives. To the tune of being 3x Gary Harris' out there as far as 3pt threat/gravity is concerned.

last yr was cole worst yr we know he had something personal going on ...go to yr before..
also never said cole better? said simons not cole ,black and 2 top 5 protected first better and double the money
plus that is with simons as #1 option ball in hands all game...magic have franz and paolo
and ingles playing in 2nd unit

you actually have said that before, just not in this thread

[tiderulz]

If Cole is a microwave...that would make Simons a nuclear reactor

Eh. Running up points playing on a terrible team. Not put much stock into it.

that's a lot more impressive than NOT running up points on a terrible team. The guy can flat out shoot. Anybody clamoring for a Kennard should be looking a whole lot harder at a super-athletic, healthier, younger version who got 5.5 dimes per game and generally put up twice as many points.

and shooting %s. its one thing to score points while being the main option on a bad team and shooting bad %s, but that isnt the case with Simons

[Rainwater]

That’s pretty close for me

I don’t think the Magic are moving AB. Our FO really commits to their draft picks once they select them.

What about Brogdon for our pick (#18)?

If the right move is there, I believe AB will be moved. The only untouchable pieces are Suggs, Paolo, and Franz.

[Rainwater]

come on this is crazy unneeded trade..i would put a lot of money magic would not give this up for 2 yrs of overpaid 6th man and 1 yr of injury prone role player...really both are injury prone...this is way overboard

Interesting profile of Brogdon and Simons yeah a couple of nobodies. Hang on to Cole and that DEN pick, ORLNo

for sure i hold black and the 26 first...before i make that trade

Do you realize how bad the Magic perimeter/backcourt is? It would be crazy not to take Brogdon and Simons. I would do that in a heartbeat.

[Rainwater]

Portland becomes crazy skilled and long with a back court of AB and Sharpe.... like at some level I feel like we are gifting them a ridiculous back court regardless of the return. Thats two 6'7 guards with perfect complimentary skill sets.

Im not even overvaluing AB really... I just think his potential is a lot higher than people even imagine on this board.

Hopefully I am wrong, but I think he is just a role player.

[Rainwater]

Portland is a crap team and tanking.

True.

And yet Cole, supposedly improving started less often on a team starved for guard talent.

magic like defense and franz and paolo play point foward

You and RichCollab are making some unsensible, disingenuous arguments. I have no clue why you are comparing total career stats instead of viewing trends and comparing year to year stats showing that Simons is clearly out playing Cole. Question Simons' defense, question Simons' size but there is no question Simons is better than Cole. Most of this forum would trade Cole for a ham sandwich, lol.

Yes, Simons plays on a crappy team but he still shot the ball decently even as the main focus against every team. And he still shot the ball well when playing next to a star in Dame. In the last 4 years respectively he shot 43%, 41%, 38%, and 39%. It seems like he shot the ball better next to a star so I would love to see what he does next to Franz and Paolo. In addition, he can create for himself and others.

I feel like you are blaming the issues of Portland on Simons and his talents when Portland is clearly not trying to win and are built poorly. I really feel like what Simons might be to Orlando could be like what AG is to Denver. While AG was in Orlando the Magic were bad. They weren't bad because of AG and his talent; AG is the same exact player he was Orlando even though Denver is winning. AG just found a team that could needed his skills and could use them correctly. I feel that will be the same for Simons if he is traded here.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Simons is a taller & a bit better scorer than Cole. Orlando needs to aim higher regardless IMO.

[Skybox]

Simply put...and I think this is talking floor, not ceiling...Simons is a bigger Cole, who shot .389 on 8.5 3pta's per game over the last 3 years. Even if you ignore the 4.5 apg over the same period. 5.54 apg last season...this IS a fit.

Even if he's ONLY a super-athletic young guy who happens to shoot 3's like feeble Luke Kennard...this is a fit. But, I think he's capable of a lot more in this role...and I also value that he's NOT a Trae-level guy who will warp the whole offensive hierarchy, payroll, and locker room.

[orlando_joe]

Ok, so take first 2 years off, you are still comparing the total assist numbers of an SG to a PG, who have two different expectations.

Luckily, we know what Simons looks like as a PG, because that's the role he played last season in Portland for the first time. Even though he played less games than Cole due to injury, we can still use per36 or per100 to atleast get a general idea of how many assists they would put up on equal minutes and possessions.

Simons per36 - 5.8 ast
Cole per36 - 4.7 ast

Simons per100 - 8 ast
Cole per100 - 6.4 ast

Cole IS a better rebounder. Always has been very good at it for his size and position...but we aren't lacking in the ability to rebound the ball (it can be better, but we shouldn't be relying on small guards to get us there when we have the size that we do)...we are lacking reliable perimeter shooting to bend defenses and space the floor. That's where Simons thrives. To the tune of being 3x Gary Harris' out there as far as 3pt threat/gravity is concerned.

last yr was cole worst yr we know he had something personal going on ...go to yr before..
also never said cole better? said simons not cole ,black and 2 top 5 protected first better and double the money
plus that is with simons as #1 option ball in hands all game...magic have franz and paolo
and ingles playing in 2nd unit

you actually have said that before, just not in this thread

maybe after last season? after cole 3rd and simons 5th? the only think simons beat him on was less then 2% on 3s and took way more atg for points ...and made 4 mil to simons 26?cole playing 25 min and simons playing 35 without a care no pressure with 100 mill guarenteed money on bad team.. cole with better d yea i could have said it...lol