Free Agency

[jars]

I know that stats are only part of the picture, but what is the major difference between these two players?

Player A
26 years old
72 games played
26.0 mpg
15.4 ppg
44.3 FG% (on 12.4 attempts per game)
35 3pt% (on 5.9 attempts per game)
2.9 rpg
5.1 apg
0.6 spg

Player B
22 years old
77 games played
28.8 mpg
15.4 ppg
42.9 FG% (on 12.6 attempts per game)
33.6 3pt% (on 4.8 attempts per game)
3.4 rpg
3.8 apg
0.7 spg

Player A is the guy the Pistons want us to be excited about paying $20-$25 million a year.
Player B is the guy half this board have said they want to trade and who is making $10 million next year: Jaden Ivey.

I have no problems if people want to move off Ivey, but thinking that Monk is going to come in and do much more than Ivey seems deluded to me. I'd prefer to keep Ivey while cost controlled and with more upside rather than gain the extra 3.5 wins that Monk is projected to bring. Ivey is also miles ahead of where Monk was at the same age.

[bstein14]

I know that stats are only part of the picture, but what is the major difference between these two players?

Player A
26 years old
72 games played
26.0 mpg
15.4 ppg
44.3 FG%
35 3pt%
2.9 rpg
5.1 apg
0.6 spg

Player B
22 years old
77 games played
28.8 mpg
15.4 ppg
42.9 FG%
33.6 3pt%
3.4 rpg
3.8 apg
0.7 spg

Player A is the guy the Pistons want us to be excited about paying $20-$25 million a year.
Player B is the guy half this board have said they want to trade and who is making $10 million next year: Jaden Ivey.

I have no problems if people want to move off Ivey, but thinking that Monk is going to come in and do much more than Ivey seems deluded to me. I'd prefer to keep Ivey while cost controlled and with more upside rather than gain the extra 3.5 wins that Monk is projected to bring. Ivey is also miles ahead of where Monk was at the same age.

We wouldn't have to trade Ivey at all if Monk was signed, but I do think Tyus Jones is a much more efficient player and a better shooter to pair with Cade than Monk. Monk I think was more possible for the Pistons to have interest in because Weaver did a ton of business with his agent (Cade, Wiseman, Bagley, Olynyk, etc) but now we have Langdon in I feel like our interest in Monk may be less. I actually think Tyus Jones (Duke Connection) makes a lot of sense but I could also see Washington overpaying since they are also a bottom feeding team that doesn't want to lose who I think is their best player, for nothing.

[theBigLip]

I know that stats are only part of the picture, but what is the major difference between these two players?

Player A
26 years old
72 games played
26.0 mpg
15.4 ppg
44.3 FG% (on 12.4 attempts per game)
35 3pt% (on 5.9 attempts per game)
2.9 rpg
5.1 apg
0.6 spg

Player B
22 years old
77 games played
28.8 mpg
15.4 ppg
42.9 FG% (on 12.6 attempts per game)
33.6 3pt% (on 4.8 attempts per game)
3.4 rpg
3.8 apg
0.7 spg

Player A is the guy the Pistons want us to be excited about paying $20-$25 million a year.
Player B is the guy half this board have said they want to trade and who is making $10 million next year: Jaden Ivey.

I have no problems if people want to move off Ivey, but thinking that Monk is going to come in and do much more than Ivey seems deluded to me. I'd prefer to keep Ivey while cost controlled and with more upside rather than gain the extra 3.5 wins that Monk is projected to bring. Ivey is also miles ahead of where Monk was at the same age.

I totally agree. Rookie deals are golden. And 20 year olds usually get better. Patience is a virtue.

[Pharaoh]

Any interest in Melton?

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

[jars]

Any interest in Melton?

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

In the same way I was interested in Alec Burks and Reggie Bullock in the past. Happy if they sign him, but not expecting much.

[7r5ur]

I know that stats are only part of the picture, but what is the major difference between these two players?

Player A
26 years old
72 games played
26.0 mpg
15.4 ppg
44.3 FG% (on 12.4 attempts per game)
35 3pt% (on 5.9 attempts per game)
2.9 rpg
5.1 apg
0.6 spg

Player B
22 years old
77 games played
28.8 mpg
15.4 ppg
42.9 FG% (on 12.6 attempts per game)
33.6 3pt% (on 4.8 attempts per game)
3.4 rpg
3.8 apg
0.7 spg

Player A is the guy the Pistons want us to be excited about paying $20-$25 million a year.
Player B is the guy half this board have said they want to trade and who is making $10 million next year: Jaden Ivey.

I have no problems if people want to move off Ivey, but thinking that Monk is going to come in and do much more than Ivey seems deluded to me. I'd prefer to keep Ivey while cost controlled and with more upside rather than gain the extra 3.5 wins that Monk is projected to bring. Ivey is also miles ahead of where Monk was at the same age.

Yep. We've got some major "grass is always greener on the other side" stuff going on with Monk/Ivey. Monk's got the same flaws that Ivey has. Terrible defense and streaky shooting. He also is better when he's on-ball. There's a reason teams always play him off the bench. We would look incredibly stupid in a hurry if we sign Monk to some huge contract and ship off Ivey for scraps.

Only way it makes any sense is if we're getting some amazing return for Ivey that I just don't see coming. Otherwise, you're getting basically the same type of guy at more than double the price and older, with a lot less room to grow.

[vege]

Any interest in Melton?

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

I've been posting about him for months. I'd love for us to get him. A very good defender, decent 3 point shooter and excellent passer. He's nothing to be excited about but he would fit like a glove next to Cade.

and because he only played 38 games in his contract year, he should be cheap.

Watch on YouTube

[LaSheed]

Any interest in Melton?

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

I've been posting about him for months. I'd love for us to get him. A very good defender, decent 3 point shooter and excellent shooter. He's nothing to be excited about but he would fit like a glove next to Cade.

and because he only played 38 games in his contract year, he should be cheap.

Watch on YouTube

Would love to get Melton.

[Mr Peanut]

Melton would be a good get. Brings three point shooting and perimeter defense, both of which we are sorely lacking. He has been a solid contributor to playoff teams over the past 4 seasons.

[Kalamazoo317]

I know that stats are only part of the picture, but what is the major difference between these two players?

Player A
26 years old
72 games played
26.0 mpg
15.4 ppg
44.3 FG% (on 12.4 attempts per game)
35 3pt% (on 5.9 attempts per game)
2.9 rpg
5.1 apg
0.6 spg

Player B
22 years old
77 games played
28.8 mpg
15.4 ppg
42.9 FG% (on 12.6 attempts per game)
33.6 3pt% (on 4.8 attempts per game)
3.4 rpg
3.8 apg
0.7 spg

Player A is the guy the Pistons want us to be excited about paying $20-$25 million a year.
Player B is the guy half this board have said they want to trade and who is making $10 million next year: Jaden Ivey.

I have no problems if people want to move off Ivey, but thinking that Monk is going to come in and do much more than Ivey seems deluded to me. I'd prefer to keep Ivey while cost controlled and with more upside rather than gain the extra 3.5 wins that Monk is projected to bring. Ivey is also miles ahead of where Monk was at the same age.

Monk isn't my favorite option, but he has a defensive rating of about 2 points better than Ivey, an effective FG% of about 3% better, and an assist to turnover ration about 1 better than Ivey. He shoots the three at higher volume and makes more. He's just a more effecient, more reliable player overall.

Is he going to tremendously raise our floor or ceiling by himself? No, of course not. We need more highly talented, top 100 players to do that, and that's not Ivey *or* Monk.

But improving around the margins makes sense too, and there's no metric where Ivey is a better player than Monk. He's just younger and cheaper (which matters, but matters less when your team is already so young and has so much cap space).

[7r5ur]

I know that stats are only part of the picture, but what is the major difference between these two players?

Player A
26 years old
72 games played
26.0 mpg
15.4 ppg
44.3 FG% (on 12.4 attempts per game)
35 3pt% (on 5.9 attempts per game)
2.9 rpg
5.1 apg
0.6 spg

Player B
22 years old
77 games played
28.8 mpg
15.4 ppg
42.9 FG% (on 12.6 attempts per game)
33.6 3pt% (on 4.8 attempts per game)
3.4 rpg
3.8 apg
0.7 spg

Player A is the guy the Pistons want us to be excited about paying $20-$25 million a year.
Player B is the guy half this board have said they want to trade and who is making $10 million next year: Jaden Ivey.

I have no problems if people want to move off Ivey, but thinking that Monk is going to come in and do much more than Ivey seems deluded to me. I'd prefer to keep Ivey while cost controlled and with more upside rather than gain the extra 3.5 wins that Monk is projected to bring. Ivey is also miles ahead of where Monk was at the same age.

Monk isn't my favorite option, but he has a defensive rating of about 2 points better than Ivey, an effective FG% of about 3% better, and an assist to turnover ration about 1 better than Ivey. He shoots the three at higher volume and makes more. He's just a more effecient, more reliable player overall.

Is he going to tremendously raise our floor or ceiling by himself? No, of course not. We need more highly talented, top 100 players to do that, and that's not Ivey *or* Monk.

But improving around the margins makes sense too, and there's no metric where Ivey is a better player than Monk. He's just younger and cheaper (which matters, but matters less when your team is already so young and has so much cap space).

So if the differences are marginal today, wouldn't it make sense to keep the guy who projects to be the better player within the next couple of years and is a lot cheaper and spend that money elsewhere? Ideally on someone that doesn't just have all of the same weaknesses Ivey has? Both are terrible defenders. Both are below average & very streaky spot-up shooters. Both prefer to play on the ball to maximize their talent. Why would we spend $25M/year on another one of those when we're already worried about the fit of the first one?

Signing Monk would be Ben Gordon vibes all over again. Spending the money on the biggest money player that would come to your team just to spend it regardless of the fit. I would way rather sign cheaper guys that fit and play defense.

And there certainly are metrics where Ivey is currently better than Monk. Ivey has a significantly higher free throw rate, in the ballpark of where Shai was in his first few years. Ivey's also way better as an isolation scorer (Monk's in the 17th percentile, Ivey's in the 64th percentile, Cade's in the 27th percentile). Both of these things are big predictors of scoring upside.

Ivey averaged 17/4/4 and shot 35% from 3 once the front office forced Monty to put him in the starting lineup. Really, what is the big upgrade with Monk? If we decide Ivey isn't the guy, it's because that mold of player doesn't work with Cade.

[Skybox]

Surprised to hear of DET possibly pursuing Claxton & Monk…given your roster. I would’ve guessed Miles Bridges made a lot of sense.

Duren can’t play next to Claxton, so send him to ORL (assuming ORL doesn’t get Claxton).

Ivey and Monk seem very similar +/- to me, with Monk (just recently) finding himself as, basically, what you’d hope Ivey would become.

Send Duren & Ivey to ORL …just spitballing:

DET sends: Duren, Ivey, #5
ORL sends: Franz Wagner, Mo Wagner, Jett Howard or a future frp

*cant even suggest Franz trade on ORL board…they’re probably right to chase me out for it

[MotownMadness]

Surprised to hear of DET possibly pursuing Claxton & Monk…given your roster. I would’ve guessed Miles Bridges made a lot of sense.

Duren can’t play next to Claxton, so send him to ORL (assuming ORL doesn’t get Claxton).

Ivey and Monk seem very similar +/- to me, with Monk (just recently) finding himself as, basically, what you’d hope Ivey would become.

Send Duren & Ivey to ORL …just spitballing:

DET sends: Duren, Ivey, #5
ORL sends: Franz Wagner, Mo Wagner, Jett Howard or a future frp

*cant even suggest Franz trade on ORL board…they’re probably right to chase me out for it

Yeah they won't move Franz

[Kalamazoo317]

So if the differences are marginal today, wouldn't it make sense to keep the guy who projects to be the better player within the next couple of years and is a lot cheaper and spend that money elsewhere? Ideally on someone that doesn't just have all of the same weaknesses Ivey has? Both are terrible defenders. Both are below average & very streaky spot-up shooters. Both prefer to play on the ball to maximize their talent. Why would we spend $25M/year on another one of those when we're already worried about the fit of the first one?

I'd argue that Monk projects to be the better player within the next couple of years.

But I agree that I'd rather spend that money elsewhere and agree witht the focus on defense. But I'd also trade Ivey, personally.

[Kalamazoo317]

Surprised to hear of DET possibly pursuing Claxton & Monk…given your roster. I would’ve guessed Miles Bridges made a lot of sense.

Fit matters, but there's a threshold of talent and character to consider before even getting to fit, imo.

[Snakebites]

Surprised to hear of DET possibly pursuing Claxton & Monk…given your roster. I would’ve guessed Miles Bridges made a lot of sense.

Duren can’t play next to Claxton, so send him to ORL (assuming ORL doesn’t get Claxton).

Ivey and Monk seem very similar +/- to me, with Monk (just recently) finding himself as, basically, what you’d hope Ivey would become.

Send Duren & Ivey to ORL …just spitballing:

DET sends: Duren, Ivey, #5
ORL sends: Franz Wagner, Mo Wagner, Jett Howard or a future frp

*cant even suggest Franz trade on ORL board…they’re probably right to chase me out for it

Yeah they won't move Franz

Yeah I'm surprised to see that pitched by a Magic fan. Can't imagine them dealing him away.

[Kalamazoo317]

Most Magic fans consistently tell us Franz is better than Cade and it's not close. Though I think Duren + Ivey + #5 is a solid trade package.

[Snakebites]

Most Magic fans consistently tell us Franz is better than Cade and it's not close. Though I think Duren + Ivey + #5 is a solid trade package.

Yeah, I'm not saying it's not.

Just didn't get the impression Magic fans were interested in dealing him.

[7r5ur]

So if the differences are marginal today, wouldn't it make sense to keep the guy who projects to be the better player within the next couple of years and is a lot cheaper and spend that money elsewhere? Ideally on someone that doesn't just have all of the same weaknesses Ivey has? Both are terrible defenders. Both are below average & very streaky spot-up shooters. Both prefer to play on the ball to maximize their talent. Why would we spend $25M/year on another one of those when we're already worried about the fit of the first one?

I'd argue that Monk projects to be the better player within the next couple of years.

But I agree that I'd rather spend that money elsewhere and agree witht the focus on defense. But I'd also trade Ivey, personally.

I'd still way rather see Cade and Ivey with a coach other than Monty before I hand a very comparable player in Monk a hundred million dollar contract. Monty made zero attempt to make them work well together, and still Ivey's numbers are in the ballpark. Just seems like really terrible value and a high likelihood of looking very bad almost immediately.

If you can land a clear 2-way guy like Mikal Bridges, sure. It solves a lot of issues that both Monk and Ivey have.

[Skybox]

Most Magic fans consistently tell us Franz is better than Cade and it's not close. Though I think Duren + Ivey + #5 is a solid trade package.

Yeah, I'm not saying it's not.

Just didn't get the impression Magic fans were interested in dealing him.

Just spitballing…not signing anything yet

Is there a pkg that doesn’t include Paolo, Franz, Suggs that DET would consider?
Picks, Jett Howard, WCJ, Cole Anthony, maybe even Isaac…figure you can’t use Anthony Black as you have Thompson