Sixers Offseason Thread Part 2

[NBD23]

don't feed the troll

It’s a fair point, I don’t comment a lot. I know I should ignore it but

I am looking forward to this offseason and I really hope we don’t go the aging vet route. For me I would love Lauri as option 1 but Ainge will take us over the coals so probably not.

In the realm of reality I actually do think Ingram could be a great number 3 and leave us with some ninety to fill out the roster.

I think there's a good chance it will be Ingram by default. I'm thinking they're first options are the aging stars. But all of the aging stars' teams want to keep them. Ingram is the only guy of the group who definitely will be on a new team next year.

My real hope is another option will present itself but a useful wing like Ingram isn’t the worst option

[76ciology]

For discussion purposes, isn't acquiring LaVine better than getting Ingram?

First off, LaVine is a better scorer than Ingram.

Second, we can be compensated for absorbing LaVine’s contract by either moving up in the draft and potentially being able to even acquire Caruso or Dosunmu. In contrast, we would need 2-3 first-round picks to outbid other teams for Ingram.

Third, while it's true that Ingram is a better rebounder and defender than LaVine, considering the overall return and the composition of the team, trading for LaVine allows us to obtain a stud defensive wing like Cody Williams and another power forward who can rebound and protect the rim, such as Jalen Smith. On the other hand, acquiring Ingram would place a significant defensive burden on the shooting guard and power forward positions, which would be difficult to fill given the draft picks we would have to give up to acquire him.

Fourth, while Ingram’s contract is better right now, imagine what it would look like with the max contract he’s asking for with more length once we have to extend him after acquiring him.

I think Ingram makes more sense for a team that is just missing a “final piece” rather than in our situation, where we have many positions to fill and limited assets.

[Foshan]

For discussion purposes, isn't acquiring LaVine better than getting Ingram?

Spoiler:

First off, LaVine is a better scorer than Ingram.

Second, we can be compensated for absorbing LaVine’s contract by either moving up in the draft and potentially being able to even acquire Caruso or Dosunmu. In contrast, we would need 2-3 first-round picks to outbid other teams for Ingram.

Third, while it's true that Ingram is a better rebounder and defender than LaVine, considering the overall return and the composition of the team, trading for LaVine allows us to obtain a stud defensive wing like Cody Williams and another power forward who can rebound and protect the rim, such as Jalen Smith. On the other hand, acquiring Ingram would place a significant defensive burden on the shooting guard and power forward positions, which would be difficult to fill given the draft picks we would have to give up to acquire him.

Fourth, while Ingram’s contract is better right now, imagine what it would look like with the max contract he’s asking for with more length once we have to extend him after acquiring him.

I think Ingram makes more sense for a team that is just missing a “final piece” rather than in our situation, where we have many positions to fill and limited assets.

I agree with your points, i would think it is a bad idea to combine our space + picks for a player at this point, unless it is an exceptional value... which Ingram is not, imo.

That said, if i'm looking at aquiring Lavine, I think i would have to be getting a pretty solid incentive. If it was only a small incentive, i think i would rather just offer DDR the three year deal that is being guessed at. 25-30Mfor DDR imo is better than 40 for Lavine.

[Jhawk03]

My number one choice is LeBron, it would be like when the NY Jets traded for Aaron Rodgers. Then we'd have our quarterback!

[zaz102]

For discussion purposes, isn't acquiring LaVine better than getting Ingram?

First off, LaVine is a better scorer than Ingram.

Second, we can be compensated for absorbing LaVine’s contract by either moving up in the draft and potentially being able to even acquire Caruso or Dosunmu. In contrast, we would need 2-3 first-round picks to outbid other teams for Ingram.

Third, while it's true that Ingram is a better rebounder and defender than LaVine, considering the overall return and the composition of the team, trading for LaVine allows us to obtain a stud defensive wing like Cody Williams and another power forward who can rebound and protect the rim, such as Jalen Smith. On the other hand, acquiring Ingram would place a significant defensive burden on the shooting guard and power forward positions, which would be difficult to fill given the draft picks we would have to give up to acquire him.

Fourth, while Ingram’s contract is better right now, imagine what it would look like with the max contract he’s asking for with more length once we have to extend him after acquiring him.

I think Ingram makes more sense for a team that is just missing a “final piece” rather than in our situation, where we have many positions to fill and limited assets.

1) We don't know if we would be getting anything in a trade for LaVine.

2) I don't think it's a given that Ingram gets a max contract.

[NBD23]

In a world where Zach nets you assets sure you would have to strongly consider that vs Ingram. I am pretty sure the Bulls think they are getting something for a guy that has big money coming to him and a big injury history.

Ingram may not really get the max but is also only 26 which means he has time to develop into something. On top of that he is slated for 36 million which means we could still get a Jalen Smith or Toppin type while keeping Oubre for the room exception. The upside with Ingram over Zach too is you can move on if you don’t like what you see.

At the end of the day I’m not going heavy asset on Ingram either, he should be a distressed asset and is not someone worth shelling out the clippers pick or more then say 2 1’s. If NOP is asking for more then that time to move on too the next plan.

[mjkvol]

My number one choice is LeBron, it would be like when the NY Jets traded for Aaron Rodgers. Then we'd have our quarterback!

Ferry, is that you?

[Negrodamus]

Bulls aren’t giving away LaVine for assets. I don’t think it’s as dire as some believe for the Bulls. His cost will still not be worth it. Ingram’s trade value will definitely not be worth his production. I still think trading for someone is a short sighted move. I suppose it only makes sense if everyone in FA is determined to stay with their current team or has no interest in us.

[SixersSince82]

But we need Embiid active as a screener to run our best offense in crunch time, even if he’s not the focal point of the offense. And he’s not going to be able to do that if we’re asking him to fully carry our defense & rebounding.

Keeping Embiid fresh & focused on the offensive end doesn’t mean running everything through him. It means that we reserve his energy so he can be part of a crisp & active late game offense. A big reason we stagnate during crunch time is because Embiid is too gassed to do anything other than post up at the top of the key.

We just see Embiid very differently.

I think being a defensive anchor and active screener is a pretty standard ask for starting caliber centers. Especially one's capable of what Joel is capable of on that end. There's no excuse for Joel not to do it.

Offensively I agree, he's gassed late games. But I dont think him being more fresh would create a crisp and active offense. Joel's not a facilitator. He's become the Carmelo of centers. Isos, pump fakes and jab steps into jumpers. We are one dimensional playing through him.

But yeah, if you're suggesting he take a step back to be "one part of the offense" I agree, absolutely. I think he should really be the 3rd option on offense and go win DPoY. Unless he can make a serious effort to become more of a facilitator.

That’s what I’m suggest - that he be a part of a competent late game offense. Not the entire offense but an important part of one.

I think it’s a pipe dream to imagine that he wins a DPOY in his 30s. That requires consistent high effort, elite conditioning, and durability. It’s just not gonna happen for him. Better to accept his limitations and build a team that can save him energy on the defensive end so he can spend it on offense.

We’ve asked him to carry some absolutely dreadful defensive teams (which he’s done) but maybe we should try something else for a change.

Rudy Gobert is about to turn 32. Joel, when engaged, is a similar level defender.

That said, I'm absolutely in favor of adding weak side shot blocking and more rebounding. I just don't think that's more important than figuring out how to effectively lower Joel's usage rate on offense.

Joel's penchant for playing iso ball, shooting over triple teams, slow offensive decision making and inability to facilitate consistently or effectively, hampers the ability to run a championship level, crunch time, well oiled offense. That has more to do with his mentality/ability than it does his injuries imo. And so the most likely way to overcome it is to take the ball out of his hands more. While I like Draymonds secondary facilitation abilities, I think the way you do that is with a player like PG (not advocating for him specifically, just using your example of an offensive "star") who has more scoring juice.

[youngcrev]

There's too much focus on wanting to feel like you are getting good value over actual team building.

If you don't think Zach LaVine is an answer, you don't go after him just because you think it's a good value play. He's still eating up that salary slot of a 3rd max and limiting your team.

If you're going for a 3rd max guy, that 3rd guy better at least be a top 40 player. Otherwise you're just paying for one but not actually getting one.

[Monix]

here's my outside-the-box FA target: Mario Hezonja

I saw a report where he was unhappy at Real Madrid, see if if wants to give the NBA another shot in a role like Fontecchio played with Utah & Detroit

[Negrodamus]

here's my outside-the-box FA target: Mario Hezonja

I saw a report where he was unhappy at Real Madrid, see if if wants to give the NBA another shot in a role like Fontecchio played with Utah & Detroit

He’s one of those guys that I’m always down to let him hurt me. Never ending faith in his potential, lol.

[FireMorey]

All the names analyzed and discussed, I still think it'll come down to either PG, Jimmy, or Ingram. After those 3 I think the drop off in likelihood moves to a whole other tier.

[Arsenal]

All the names analyzed and discussed, I still think it'll come down to either PG, Jimmy, or Ingram. After those 3 I think the drop off in likelihood moves to a whole other tier.

The only impactful stars potentially available are PG, Jimmy, and LeBron. Ingram has never made a major impact statistically. If we burn assets to trade for him, we'd be hoping he makes a big leap. Not impossible since he's only 26, but still speculative.

We're almost guaranteed to get more impact from the other 3 guys the next couple of years at least.

[NBD23]

All the names analyzed and discussed, I still think it'll come down to either PG, Jimmy, or Ingram. After those 3 I think the drop off in likelihood moves to a whole other tier.

The only impactful stars potentially available are PG, Jimmy, and LeBron. Ingram has never made a major impact statistically. If we burn assets to trade for him, we'd be hoping he makes a big leap. Not impossible since he's only 26, but still speculative.

We're almost guaranteed to get more impact from the other 3 guys the next couple of years at least.

Again leading with the cost part, Ingram is a guy that I think will be better without Williamson. I also think he has been stuck as a #1 option in New Orleans vs being a #3 here and once in a while a #2 in the regular season. No one is coming in here willing to be the 3rd option that can take you to the finals if Embiid gets hurt in the playoffs again. The older guys, you can get enough depth around them. I think trading for Ingram or going really big overpay with the picks and trying Lauri or Bridges is a better option as it leaves much more to fill out the roster depth.

[Monix]

the theory of Ingram has always been greater than the reality

[ProcessDoctor]

I would’ve loved LaVine in a not-so-dark Ben Simmons timeline where we just needed to add pure scoring to the roster.

With Embiid and Maxey, we need playmaking, rebounding, and defending more than anything (ironically, all the stuff Ben brought). LaVine’s value to this core is pretty low imo.

[76ciology]

Brandon Ingram’s contract includes a 15% trade kicker. This means that if he is traded, his salary will increase by 15% of the remaining value of his contract. For the this season, his salary is $36,016,200, so a trade would increase his salary by approximately $5.4 million, bringing it to about $41.4 million for next season, roughly only $2M less compared to Lavine after the trade.

If Brandon Ingram only makes it as an All-Star and does not qualify for the higher tier of the max contract (35% of the cap), his maximum annual salary based on today’s salary cap would be approximately $40.8 million. Over a four-year contract, which starts in 2025-2026 to 2028-2029, this would total about $163.2 million. While Lavine’s contract ends in 2027.

By 2025-2026 season, Lavine’s contract would be an expiring contract that we can use as a trade asset. While Ingram’s gonna be a lot harder to trade.

Contract wise and TS%, I can see why Morey likes Lavine. He’s also a very distressed asset. Once the new season kicks in and he starts wowing the league with his scoring, that window wont be open anymore. Specially that 11th pick in the upcoming draft.

[NYSixersFan]

I'd rather trade for Dejounte Murray than Ingram.

[PhillyFan11]

I think people are underestimating how bad of an owner Jerry Reinsdorf is. No way the Bulls are going to trade LaVine + assets to get much worse. Would it benefit the Bulls long term? Probably. But Reinsdorf is more than happy to see his team stay as the 6-9 seed and collect revenue, LaVine helps that.