Garland to Orlando for depth from the Spurs

[jayu70]

How so ?

Amico tweeted that Atlanta is open to trading down to 3-4 for Clingan to net additional assets as they have him in the mix for #1. They get 4 & 8 from the Spurs. Also included is a Spurs FRP which is Atlanta's draft rights back for 1 of 3yrs which no other team can give them & a NO's first along with Keldon Johnson.

It's not quite what Atlanta gave up for Murray but it's close.

2 things Spurs possess that Hawks would want, #4 & their draft rights of which they get one year back.

Just a caveat, I would not mortgage the house to buy Sam Amico stock.

That was a mistake on my part.

Givony from draft express tweeted Atlanta & Quinn like Clingan & would trade down to 3-4 if it meant getting additional value.

Amico's tweet said Spurs are interested in Garland.

I'm curious as to what you think would be a better offer for Murray, #1.

What Hawks are getting in the trade based on the above

Keldon Johnson, #4 Clingan, #8, Spurs/Hawks 25 or 27 draft rights back & NO's/Lakers FRP.

Spurs can do what Nets can't, which is allow Atlanta to control one of their draft yrs. Nets would have to trade in at 3 where NO's trade in at 4 for Clingan, their trade down target range. Keldon straight up for Murray also saves Atlanta some cap space with them sitting near or in the tax & the Lakers were a PI team fully healthy with another year added to Lerbon's age where health could make them a lotto team for a projected lotto pick in 25.

The picks back is played out from my perspective.
If Hawks are trading 1 for 4 and 8...they'd have to be assured their guy is there at 4.
I'd then rather parlay 8 and Capela into something like 12 and a 2nd from OKC. Hawks address their tax concerns by moving down 4 spots, OKC addresses their center spot on an expiring contract.
I'd keep the Murray deal separate from the #1.
NOP is stealing value to get both Murray and #1.
Hawks can't trade both Murray and #1 and the best player coming back is Keldon Johnson, regardless of picks.

[Scoot McGroot]

Atl gets screwed in this trade.

How so ?

Amico tweeted that Atlanta is open to trading down to 3-4 for Clingan to net additional assets as they have him in the mix for #1. They get 4 & 8 from the Spurs. Also included is a Spurs FRP which is Atlanta's draft rights back for 1 of 3yrs which no other team can give them & a NO's first along with Keldon Johnson.

It's not quite what Atlanta gave up for Murray but it's close.

2 things Spurs possess that Hawks would want, #4 & their draft rights of which they get one year back.

Just a caveat, I would not mortgage the house to buy Sam Amico stock.

Remember, “if it’s Amick, it just might stick. If it’s Amico, just let it go”.

[jbk1234]

How so ?

Amico tweeted that Atlanta is open to trading down to 3-4 for Clingan to net additional assets as they have him in the mix for #1. They get 4 & 8 from the Spurs. Also included is a Spurs FRP which is Atlanta's draft rights back for 1 of 3yrs which no other team can give them & a NO's first along with Keldon Johnson.

It's not quite what Atlanta gave up for Murray but it's close.

2 things Spurs possess that Hawks would want, #4 & their draft rights of which they get one year back.

Just a caveat, I would not mortgage the house to buy Sam Amico stock.

That was a mistake on my part.

Givony from draft express tweeted Atlanta & Quinn like Clingan & would trade down to 3-4 if it meant getting additional value.

Amico's tweet said Spurs are interested in Garland.

I'm curious as to what you think would be a better offer for Murray, #1.

What Hawks are getting in the trade based on the above

Keldon Johnson, #4 Clingan, #8, Spurs/Hawks 25 or 27 draft rights back & NO's/Lakers FRP.

Spurs can do what Nets can't, which is allow Atlanta to control one of their draft yrs. Nets would have to trade in at 3 where NO's trade in at 4 for Clingan, their trade down target range. Keldon straight up for Murray also saves Atlanta some cap space with them sitting near or in the tax & the Lakers were a PI team fully healthy with another year added to Lerbon's age where health could make them a lotto team for a projected lotto pick in 25.

If the paid evaluators are correct about Sarr, think No. 1 alone is worth 4 & 8. So then it comes down to what could the Hawks get for Murray, assuming Murray is the one they want to deal. Maybe Murray and Hunter get them Ingram and Daniels. If they build a better team around Trae, those picks that the Spurs hold don't matter as much.

I wouldn't build around Trae, I would move Trae for as much value as I could get, then I might have some interest in trading Murray for my picks back. But it's just very difficult to evaluate what makes sense for the Hawks without knowing what their options are.

[jayu70]

Just a caveat, I would not mortgage the house to buy Sam Amico stock.

That was a mistake on my part.

Givony from draft express tweeted Atlanta & Quinn like Clingan & would trade down to 3-4 if it meant getting additional value.

Amico's tweet said Spurs are interested in Garland.

I'm curious as to what you think would be a better offer for Murray, #1.

What Hawks are getting in the trade based on the above

Keldon Johnson, #4 Clingan, #8, Spurs/Hawks 25 or 27 draft rights back & NO's/Lakers FRP.

Spurs can do what Nets can't, which is allow Atlanta to control one of their draft yrs. Nets would have to trade in at 3 where NO's trade in at 4 for Clingan, their trade down target range. Keldon straight up for Murray also saves Atlanta some cap space with them sitting near or in the tax & the Lakers were a PI team fully healthy with another year added to Lerbon's age where health could make them a lotto team for a projected lotto pick in 25.

If the paid evaluators are correct about Sarr, think No. 1 alone is worth 4 & 8. So then it comes down to what could the Hawks get for Murray, assuming Murray is the one they want to deal. Maybe Murray and Hunter get them Ingram and Daniels. If they build a better team around Trae, those picks that the Spurs hold don't matter as much.

I wouldn't build around Trae, I would move Trae for as much value as I could get, then I might have some interest in trading Murray for my picks back. But it's just very difficult to evaluate what makes sense for the Hawks without knowing what their options are.

Assume the Hawks are retooling the team around Trae, Jalen Johnson and the (#1 pick or it's variant).

[Whole Truth]

That was a mistake on my part.

Givony from draft express tweeted Atlanta & Quinn like Clingan & would trade down to 3-4 if it meant getting additional value.

Amico's tweet said Spurs are interested in Garland.

I'm curious as to what you think would be a better offer for Murray, #1.

What Hawks are getting in the trade based on the above

Keldon Johnson, #4 Clingan, #8, Spurs/Hawks 25 or 27 draft rights back & NO's/Lakers FRP.

Spurs can do what Nets can't, which is allow Atlanta to control one of their draft yrs. Nets would have to trade in at 3 where NO's trade in at 4 for Clingan, their trade down target range. Keldon straight up for Murray also saves Atlanta some cap space with them sitting near or in the tax & the Lakers were a PI team fully healthy with another year added to Lerbon's age where health could make them a lotto team for a projected lotto pick in 25.

If the paid evaluators are correct about Sarr, think No. 1 alone is worth 4 & 8. So then it comes down to what could the Hawks get for Murray, assuming Murray is the one they want to deal. Maybe Murray and Hunter get them Ingram and Daniels. If they build a better team around Trae, those picks that the Spurs hold don't matter as much.

I wouldn't build around Trae, I would move Trae for as much value as I could get, then I might have some interest in trading Murray for my picks back. But it's just very difficult to evaluate what makes sense for the Hawks without knowing what their options are.

Assume the Hawks are retooling the team around Trae, Jalen Johnson and the (#1 pick or it's variant).

I don't have Murray down as a better player but he has a better contract value than BI. Daniels is by far the better defender with 1-4 versatility. If Murray is worth that, as a NO's fan I wouldn't do it. Daniels is 20 with offensive potential & the only thing worth swapping BI for Murray is their respective contracts as BI will sign an extension.

Depending on that extension, the financial gap is 15m with BI extended to the max. At your value asking point. I'd sooner look to shed CJ's salary & extend BI.

As far as I'm concerned Murray doesn't even have to be in the deal, just make it a trade down scenario for 4 & 8, NO's will take the Spurs FRP which is the Hawks draft rights for 25 or 27 & keep the Lakers 25 that has some lotto projection, they can get value for Murray elsewhere.

[jbk1234]

That was a mistake on my part.

Givony from draft express tweeted Atlanta & Quinn like Clingan & would trade down to 3-4 if it meant getting additional value.

Amico's tweet said Spurs are interested in Garland.

I'm curious as to what you think would be a better offer for Murray, #1.

What Hawks are getting in the trade based on the above

Keldon Johnson, #4 Clingan, #8, Spurs/Hawks 25 or 27 draft rights back & NO's/Lakers FRP.

Spurs can do what Nets can't, which is allow Atlanta to control one of their draft yrs. Nets would have to trade in at 3 where NO's trade in at 4 for Clingan, their trade down target range. Keldon straight up for Murray also saves Atlanta some cap space with them sitting near or in the tax & the Lakers were a PI team fully healthy with another year added to Lerbon's age where health could make them a lotto team for a projected lotto pick in 25.

If the paid evaluators are correct about Sarr, think No. 1 alone is worth 4 & 8. So then it comes down to what could the Hawks get for Murray, assuming Murray is the one they want to deal. Maybe Murray and Hunter get them Ingram and Daniels. If they build a better team around Trae, those picks that the Spurs hold don't matter as much.

I wouldn't build around Trae, I would move Trae for as much value as I could get, then I might have some interest in trading Murray for my picks back. But it's just very difficult to evaluate what makes sense for the Hawks without knowing what their options are.

Assume the Hawks are retooling the team around Trae, Jalen Johnson and the (#1 pick or it's variant).

Again, assuming the paid evaluators are correct about Sarr, he's got the highest ceiling, but he's a two years away from being two years away prospect. I don't see Trae being cool with drafting and developing Sarr. I'm not sure trading Sarr for 4 and 8 makes a lot of sense though as you've got two guys to develop instead of one. I'd take Sarr and look to trade him later this summer in a Wiggins for Love type swap.

[Whole Truth]

If the paid evaluators are correct about Sarr, think No. 1 alone is worth 4 & 8. So then it comes down to what could the Hawks get for Murray, assuming Murray is the one they want to deal. Maybe Murray and Hunter get them Ingram and Daniels. If they build a better team around Trae, those picks that the Spurs hold don't matter as much.

I wouldn't build around Trae, I would move Trae for as much value as I could get, then I might have some interest in trading Murray for my picks back. But it's just very difficult to evaluate what makes sense for the Hawks without knowing what their options are.

Assume the Hawks are retooling the team around Trae, Jalen Johnson and the (#1 pick or it's variant).

Again, assuming the paid evaluators are correct about Sarr, he's got the highest ceiling, but he's a two years away from being two years away prospect. I don't see Trae being cool with drafting and developing Sarr. I'm not sure trading Sarr for 4 and 8 makes a lot of sense though as you've got two guys to develop instead of one. I'd take Sarr and look to trade him later this summer in a Wiggins for Love type swap.

In Givony saying Quinn likes Clingan. Something to consider is how similar Okongwu & Sarr's skillsets are with the exception Okongwu is young but ready to start as you point out wanting to win now. Clingan gives Quinn a post option.

[jbk1234]

Assume the Hawks are retooling the team around Trae, Jalen Johnson and the (#1 pick or it's variant).

Again, assuming the paid evaluators are correct about Sarr, he's got the highest ceiling, but he's a two years away from being two years away prospect. I don't see Trae being cool with drafting and developing Sarr. I'm not sure trading Sarr for 4 and 8 makes a lot of sense though as you've got two guys to develop instead of one. I'd take Sarr and look to trade him later this summer in a Wiggins for Love type swap.

In Givony saying Quinn likes Clingan. Something to consider is how similar Okongwu & Sarr's skillsets are with the exception Okongwu is young but ready to start as you point out wanting to win now. Clingan gives Quinn a post option.

I'd move Okongwu for the best offer I could get if I ran the Hawks. I don't have him as a starter on a good team and he's coming off his rookie deal. He absolutely shouldn't impact who the Hawks draft.

[Whole Truth]

Again, assuming the paid evaluators are correct about Sarr, he's got the highest ceiling, but he's a two years away from being two years away prospect. I don't see Trae being cool with drafting and developing Sarr. I'm not sure trading Sarr for 4 and 8 makes a lot of sense though as you've got two guys to develop instead of one. I'd take Sarr and look to trade him later this summer in a Wiggins for Love type swap.

In Givony saying Quinn likes Clingan. Something to consider is how similar Okongwu & Sarr's skillsets are with the exception Okongwu is young but ready to start as you point out wanting to win now. Clingan gives Quinn a post option.

I'd move Okongwu for the best offer I could get if I ran the Hawks. I don't have him as a starter on a good team and he's coming off his rookie deal. He absolutely shouldn't impact who the Hawks draft.

I don't think Okongwu by himself would determine Hawks not taking Sarr but Okongwu is a good young switch defender with proven potential. Sarr's elite skill, is his switch ability at his length.

If Quinn thinks Clingan is close in potential .. it would give him some versatility. Taking Sarr to flip him not owning your draft for 3yrs IMO is a risky venture.

Like driving a new car off the lot. That #1 pick potential can lose value the minute he hits the court. Ask GS.

[jbk1234]

In Givony saying Quinn likes Clingan. Something to consider is how similar Okongwu & Sarr's skillsets are with the exception Okongwu is young but ready to start as you point out wanting to win now. Clingan gives Quinn a post option.

I'd move Okongwu for the best offer I could get if I ran the Hawks. I don't have him as a starter on a good team and he's coming off his rookie deal. He absolutely shouldn't impact who the Hawks draft.

I don't think Okongwu by himself would determine Hawks not taking Sarr but Okongwu is a good young switch defender with proven potential. Sarr's elite skill, is his switch ability at his length.

If Quinn thinks Clingan is close in potential .. it would give him some versatility. Taking Sarr to flip him not owning your draft for 3yrs IMO is a risky venture.

Like driving a new car off the lot. That #1 pick potential can lose value the minute he hits the court. Ask GS.

If Sarr has the highest ceiling, and is the consensus No. 1 pick, I don't see his value depreciating before he steps on the court.

Also, people get carried away with switchabilty out of the 5 spot. If a guy is undersized and can't protect the rim, the benefit is outweighed by the fact you have a smaller guy on a 7 footer cutting to the rim. Maybe Okongwu works with Chet or Wemby, but that's a short list.

[Whole Truth]

I'd move Okongwu for the best offer I could get if I ran the Hawks. I don't have him as a starter on a good team and he's coming off his rookie deal. He absolutely shouldn't impact who the Hawks draft.

I don't think Okongwu by himself would determine Hawks not taking Sarr but Okongwu is a good young switch defender with proven potential. Sarr's elite skill, is his switch ability at his length.

If Quinn thinks Clingan is close in potential .. it would give him some versatility. Taking Sarr to flip him not owning your draft for 3yrs IMO is a risky venture.

Like driving a new car off the lot. That #1 pick potential can lose value the minute he hits the court. Ask GS.

If Sarr has the highest ceiling, and is the consensus No. 1 pick, I don't see his value depreciating before he steps on the court.

Also, people get carried away with switchabilty out of the 5 spot. If a guy is undersized and can't protect the rim, the benefit is outweighed by the fact you have a smaller guy on a 7 footer cutting to the rim. Maybe Okongwu works with Chet or Wemby, but that's a short list.

That's the caveat of this draft. You're as likely to hit with the 5 pick as the first.

I don't view Sarr as a franchise target though potential is not an exact science. I view him as an ideal fit for Green wanting to switch defend & his future potential ability to draw his man out the paint to fit with Zion offensively & defensively with how Green wants to coach. The non clear consensus opinion made Sarr #1, if he were at 5, that's where I would be trading in.

Green played Nance over Jonas in some circumstances to a detriment because he wanted to switch defend & not play drop coverage. ZIon is a hard fit to compliment, which is why I'm on board trading proven value to find what ZIon needs.

NO's option to build around ZIon by trading out BI. Is one Zion injury, as history says is almost certainty, from collapse of any direction chosen.

By targeting Sarr over say Allen for example, not saying he's available. If this happens, Allen has 2yrs before free agency, Sarr would be on rookie scale control. Zion would be 24, Murphy 24, Hawkins 23, Daniels 21 & Sarr 20 with a lotto pick in 25 to pivot.

I think Sarr's floor is a rim running switch defender. I'm trading proven in the attempt to raise the ceiling but with the risk of having an easy pivot to Zion not doing what he hasn't done to date, stay healthy.

[Whole Truth]

Just a side note to show the uncertainty of this draft. Other NO's fans want to trade in but for Sheppard, who I think is also a great spacing fit with Zion but think he's an easier find than the ideal C to pair Zion with.

I would like to get both but it's not attainable. If Spurs happened to trade #4 to NO's & Hawks didn't want to trade down, I would take Sheppard with that pick but Sarr is the goal as I see him as the tougher find for NO's & more specifically Zion.

[jbk1234]

I don't think Okongwu by himself would determine Hawks not taking Sarr but Okongwu is a good young switch defender with proven potential. Sarr's elite skill, is his switch ability at his length.

If Quinn thinks Clingan is close in potential .. it would give him some versatility. Taking Sarr to flip him not owning your draft for 3yrs IMO is a risky venture.

Like driving a new car off the lot. That #1 pick potential can lose value the minute he hits the court. Ask GS.

If Sarr has the highest ceiling, and is the consensus No. 1 pick, I don't see his value depreciating before he steps on the court.

Also, people get carried away with switchabilty out of the 5 spot. If a guy is undersized and can't protect the rim, the benefit is outweighed by the fact you have a smaller guy on a 7 footer cutting to the rim. Maybe Okongwu works with Chet or Wemby, but that's a short list.

That's the caveat of this draft. You're as likely to hit with the 5 pick as the first.

I don't view Sarr as a franchise target though potential is not an exact science. I view him as an ideal fit for Green wanting to switch defend & his future potential ability to draw his man out the paint to fit with Zion offensively & defensively with how Green wants to coach. The non clear consensus opinion made Sarr #1, if he were at 5, that's where I would be trading in.

Green played Nance over Jonas in some circumstances to a detriment because he wanted to switch defend & not play drop coverage. ZIon is a hard fit to compliment, which is why I'm on board trading proven value to find what ZIon needs.

NO's option to build around ZIon by trading out BI. Is one Zion injury, as history says is almost certainty, from collapse of any direction chosen.

By targeting Sarr over say Allen for example, not saying he's available. If this happens, Allen has 2yrs before free agency, Sarr would be on rookie scale control. Zion would be 24, Murphy 24, Hawkins 23, Daniels 21 & Sarr 20 with a lotto pick in 25 to pivot.

I think Sarr's floor is a rim running switch defender. I'm trading proven in the attempt to raise the ceiling but with the risk of having an easy pivot to Zion not doing what he hasn't done to date, stay healthy.

I mean you're assuming Sarr is developed enough in two years to make that tradeoff work. You're also assuming that Green leaves Sarr out there with the starters in his first two years while he's developing. Finally, you're assuming that Zion will be more open to waiting a couple years on Sarr than Trae will.

[Whole Truth]

If Sarr has the highest ceiling, and is the consensus No. 1 pick, I don't see his value depreciating before he steps on the court.

Also, people get carried away with switchabilty out of the 5 spot. If a guy is undersized and can't protect the rim, the benefit is outweighed by the fact you have a smaller guy on a 7 footer cutting to the rim. Maybe Okongwu works with Chet or Wemby, but that's a short list.

That's the caveat of this draft. You're as likely to hit with the 5 pick as the first.

I don't view Sarr as a franchise target though potential is not an exact science. I view him as an ideal fit for Green wanting to switch defend & his future potential ability to draw his man out the paint to fit with Zion offensively & defensively with how Green wants to coach. The non clear consensus opinion made Sarr #1, if he were at 5, that's where I would be trading in.

Green played Nance over Jonas in some circumstances to a detriment because he wanted to switch defend & not play drop coverage. ZIon is a hard fit to compliment, which is why I'm on board trading proven value to find what ZIon needs.

NO's option to build around ZIon by trading out BI. Is one Zion injury, as history says is almost certainty, from collapse of any direction chosen.

By targeting Sarr over say Allen for example, not saying he's available. If this happens, Allen has 2yrs before free agency, Sarr would be on rookie scale control. Zion would be 24, Murphy 24, Hawkins 23, Daniels 21 & Sarr 20 with a lotto pick in 25 to pivot.

I think Sarr's floor is a rim running switch defender. I'm trading proven in the attempt to raise the ceiling but with the risk of having an easy pivot to Zion not doing what he hasn't done to date, stay healthy.

I mean you're assuming Sarr is developed enough in two years to make that tradeoff work. You're also assuming that Green leaves Sarr out there with the starters in his first two years while he's developing. Finally, you're assuming that Zion will be more open to waiting a couple years on Sarr than Trae will.

BI is more talented than Murphy but with Zion, Murphy's fit is productive. Those 2 have some proven court chemistry that Zion & BI don't. Paint gravity & deep spacing gravity. Herb is the defensive backbone at SG so where do you extend a large contract like BI to when CJ's 35m is at point ? NO's opted to build around ZIon at PF. This is the crux of why NO's are considering trading BI. Murphy can cheaply & effectively replace him because of fit. If fit lowers a players value, what exactly is going on with Murray & Young ?.

NO's are targeting a rim running defender to replace Jonas at any rate. The trade rumors for Allen is probably the best player of the bunch but he doesn't even attempt 3's more less make them where teams have 3-4 players in the paint walling off Zion opting to play off players shooting 40% on low volume because they're not threats. Reason Nance & CJ with the starters where -6.5 in 140 minutes. Though Nance is a defensive upgrade to Jonas & shooting 45% from 3, they weren't defending him. I assume, with Sarr's elite skillset being, his switch ability that defense like shooting translates & at worse NO's would get a cheap defensive rim runner with control to the risk of Zion not playing out the year. It's how Green wants to defend & he leans defense over offense even for rookies. See Herb starting in his rookie year despite not having adequate range & Hawkins being pinned to the bench because he can't defend though NO's needed offense. NO's fan will attest Green often sacrificed offense to not play drop coverage to a detriment. I'm not saying it will work but I'm catering to what Green wants to do. I fully expect Sarr to struggle with the zone defenses teams throw at Zion. Outside of NO's good shooting coach coaxing that 3pt shot out of him sooner than expected, I don't assume but expect the growing pains. Which is why, with this move, I also suggest, if they want to appease Zion, to get a veteran to bridge the gap from contention & development, Was suggesting resigning Jonas to a yr or 2, with a team option. As I think his post game would compliment .. Doubt with his new toy, Green would play Jonas though lol

Notice, I'm also against trading Daniels. At 20, Daniels is a proven elite wing defender with 1-4 switch ability, he finished 2nd in d-Lebron & is showing offensive potential. He's NO's best man defender & arguably more versatile on a team featuring Herb Jones. Problem with Daniels is spacing with ZIon. I would never trade that for Murray as I think Daniels will surpass Murray the moment he finds consistency in his shot which I believe will be sooner than later. My intent was for Murray's 2 way capability to bridge Daniels development. As he's already the better defender at 20 with more switch ability. What Green wants. At the deadline I was trying to turn CJ's offensive into Murray's defense so he could bridge Daniels development, not BI.

If Zion gets upset, I wouldn't care. While he's young this is what, year 5 or 6 that he couldn't remain healthy, I'm doing what's ultimately best. As NO's is going nowhere if their franchise player can't be on the court anyway. I'll build around Zion, I won't cater. The moment he says he wants out, I would tell him he was never in.

Zion would take NO's drafting Sarr better than Young would.