Heat/Kings/Pistons

[Texas Chuck]

Kings trade: Barnes/Huerter/#13
Kings get: Herro/Grimes

Heat trade: Herro/Orlando Robinson/#15
Heat get: Barnes/Stewart/#13

Pistons trade: Stewart/Grimes
Pistons get: Huerter/Orlando Robinson#15

Pistons combine two backup caliber players for a backup caliber shooter and a mid 1st
Heat brought in Rozier who can replace Herro, now they get a spacing center to backup Bam, they can share some minutes and a solid shooting forward in Barnes. Also move up a couple spots in the draft.
Kings upgrade Huerter/Monk into one player and pick up Grimes for more depth. Will obviously need to find a forward with their MLE, but their team is better.

[Kalamazoo317]

No interest in this one as a Pistons fan. We can't be in the business of getting rid of our few competent defenders. I have more belief in Stew and Grimes becoming reliable spacers (Stew already has the percentages, just not the volume; Grimes shot terribly last year but was quite good in prior years) than I do in Huerter or Robinson becoming competent defenders. And we desperately need players who are reliable on both sides of the ball.

[Texas Chuck]

No interest in this one as a Pistons fan. We can't be in the business of getting rid of our few competent defenders. I have more belief in Stew and Grimes becoming reliable spacers (Stew already has the percentages, just not the volume; Grimes shot terribly last year but was quite good in prior years) than I do in Huerter or Robinson becoming competent defenders. And we desperately need players who are reliable on both sides of the ball.

I guess my priority is probably different. I don't care about winning 27 games. I care about asset accumulation and developing the keepers on my roster. So I'm more worried about spacing on offense than I am defense.

I do understand that might not be the mentality in Detroit though I'm hoping with a regime change they can take the path that moves them forward sustainably rather than looking for the quick fix that was being talked about late this season.

But yeah if the mandate is to win more games this year this deal doesn't help with that. But so we are clear, that was not my intention.

[BBallFreak]

This is the very definition of meh. I feel like we're downgrading to move up two spots and yet I'm kinda okay with it. I like moving Herro for smaller parts. The problem is you're adding $3 million in salary to our cap situation and we're already right up against the second apron. For that reason, this is a pass.

[Kalamazoo317]

No interest in this one as a Pistons fan. We can't be in the business of getting rid of our few competent defenders. I have more belief in Stew and Grimes becoming reliable spacers (Stew already has the percentages, just not the volume; Grimes shot terribly last year but was quite good in prior years) than I do in Huerter or Robinson becoming competent defenders. And we desperately need players who are reliable on both sides of the ball.

I guess my priority is probably different. I don't care about winning 27 games. I care about asset accumulation and developing the keepers on my roster. So I'm more worried about spacing on offense than I am defense.

I do understand that might not be the mentality in Detroit though I'm hoping with a regime change they can take the path that moves them forward sustainably rather than looking for the quick fix that was being talked about late this season.

But yeah if the mandate is to win more games this year this deal doesn't help with that. But so we are clear, that was not my intention.

I think you're greatly miscasting my viewpoint if you think this is a "win now" argument. I see Stew and Grimes both as potential keepers on the roster because I see them both as having 3 and D potential (something I don't see out of Heurter or Robinson).

I honestly think this is more of a "win now" trade than an asset accumulation one, outside of the 13th pick being involved. Huerter is 25. Robinson is 30. Stew is 23. Grimes is 24. Getting Heurter and Robinson screams "sell off assets with higher ceilings for a win now move."

Maybe you don't see the potential for development in Stewart and Grimes? Stew's gotten better in some facet of his game every season, though, and I believe in his potential to continue to do so. Before last season, Grimes was shooting high percentages (I think some of his career shooting numbers are actually better than Heurter's) and he was playing injured a lot last season. They're younger and I think their potential is higher, so this trade is the opposite of a "sustained development" move, imo.

I also don't think player development is a one side of the ball kind of thing. We need to develop our players as offensive *and* defensive players.

[Texas Chuck]

Yeah its just I don't think of Stewart/Grimes as anything more than 5-9th men. So I'd rather get a pick and hope to do better. But I accept if Detroit values them much higher than I do.

I can chalk this up to a miss for Detroit.

[Godaddycurse]

feels like a big overpay for sacramento. doesn't address their need for a PF at all and i'm skeptical herro is worth this much

[MotownMadness]

I do this

[Texas Chuck]

Robinson is 30.

Orlando, not Duncan. And only in here to make the money match for Miami.

[oldncreaky]

No interest in this one as a Pistons fan. We can't be in the business of getting rid of our few competent defenders. I have more belief in Stew and Grimes becoming reliable spacers (Stew already has the percentages, just not the volume; Grimes shot terribly last year but was quite good in prior years) than I do in Huerter or Robinson becoming competent defenders. And we desperately need players who are reliable on both sides of the ball.

I guess my priority is probably different. I don't care about winning 27 games. I care about asset accumulation and developing the keepers on my roster. So I'm more worried about spacing on offense than I am defense.

I do understand that might not be the mentality in Detroit though I'm hoping with a regime change they can take the path that moves them forward sustainably rather than looking for the quick fix that was being talked about late this season.

But yeah if the mandate is to win more games this year this deal doesn't help with that. But so we are clear, that was not my intention.

I think you're greatly miscasting my viewpoint if you think this is a "win now" argument. I see Stew and Grimes both as potential keepers on the roster because I see them both as having 3 and D potential (something I don't see out of Heurter or Robinson).

I honestly think this is more of a "win now" trade than an asset accumulation one, outside of the 13th pick being involved. Huerter is 25. Robinson is 30. Stew is 23. Grimes is 24. Getting Heurter and Robinson screams "sell off assets with higher ceilings for a win now move."

Maybe you don't see the potential for development in Stewart and Grimes? Stew's gotten better in some facet of his game every season, though, and I believe in his potential to continue to do so. Before last season, Grimes was shooting high percentages (I think some of his career shooting numbers are actually better than Heurter's) and he was playing injured a lot last season. They're younger and I think their potential is higher, so this trade is the opposite of a "sustained development" move, imo.

I also don't think player development is a one side of the ball kind of thing. We need to develop our players as offensive *and* defensive players.

Strongly agree, particularly with the bolded. I've got Stewart and Grimes as better assets to have while in asset accumulation mode because they're far more likely to hold some value to Detroit in 2-3 years than players who are older and higher paid.

These kinds of trades for Detroit, shuffling around our (meagre) backup-level talents for marginally worse contracts and minor draft compensation, are well down the priority list of what to do with our cap space. I'd much rather take much worse contracts, and more draft compensation.

I want to use our $64M in cap space to acquire assets. The first choice would be to sign good FAs at reasonable salaries -- but I doubt that will be much of an option for Detroit this summer. Assuming that Detroit finds itself in mid-July with a ton of cap space they need to use and no good FAs left to spend it on, I'd rather go for trading what's left of that cap space for unwanted/bloated/unplayable contracts and take the draft compensation that goes with it.

[theBigLip]

No interest in this one as a Pistons fan. We can't be in the business of getting rid of our few competent defenders. I have more belief in Stew and Grimes becoming reliable spacers (Stew already has the percentages, just not the volume; Grimes shot terribly last year but was quite good in prior years) than I do in Huerter or Robinson becoming competent defenders. And we desperately need players who are reliable on both sides of the ball.

I guess my priority is probably different. I don't care about winning 27 games. I care about asset accumulation and developing the keepers on my roster. So I'm more worried about spacing on offense than I am defense.

I do understand that might not be the mentality in Detroit though I'm hoping with a regime change they can take the path that moves them forward sustainably rather than looking for the quick fix that was being talked about late this season.

But yeah if the mandate is to win more games this year this deal doesn't help with that. But so we are clear, that was not my intention.

I think you're greatly miscasting my viewpoint if you think this is a "win now" argument. I see Stew and Grimes both as potential keepers on the roster because I see them both as having 3 and D potential (something I don't see out of Heurter or Robinson).

I honestly think this is more of a "win now" trade than an asset accumulation one, outside of the 13th pick being involved. Huerter is 25. Robinson is 30. Stew is 23. Grimes is 24. Getting Heurter and Robinson screams "sell off assets with higher ceilings for a win now move."

Maybe you don't see the potential for development in Stewart and Grimes? Stew's gotten better in some facet of his game every season, though, and I believe in his potential to continue to do so. Before last season, Grimes was shooting high percentages (I think some of his career shooting numbers are actually better than Heurter's) and he was playing injured a lot last season. They're younger and I think their potential is higher, so this trade is the opposite of a "sustained development" move, imo.

I also don't think player development is a one side of the ball kind of thing. We need to develop our players as offensive *and* defensive players.

There is also opportunity costs in doing this. Pistons eat up roughly $20M of their cap space if they did this, so they are only getting two instead of three free agents this summer.

[Texas Chuck]

Guys its not Duncan Robinson. Not sure why that has continued even though I used Orlando in the OP and have clarified it since....

Not asking Detroit to give up cap space here.

[LightTheBeam]

I'm out on this one. I just am not a Herro guy whatsoever. I would much rather call up Utah and see what Clarkson is going to cost me (Huerter?) and then use BArnes + 13 elsewhere.

Maybe I'm crazy but on a team with Fox-Sabonis, I do not see Herro as the needed 3rd guy.

[oldncreaky]

Guys its not Duncan Robinson. Not sure why that has continued even though I used Orlando in the OP and have clarified it since....

Not asking Detroit to give up cap space here.

Fair enough

From a value perspective, it's OK for Detroit. From an asset accumulation perspective, i think it's the wrong direction

[Texas Chuck]

Guys its not Duncan Robinson. Not sure why that has continued even though I used Orlando in the OP and have clarified it since....

Not asking Detroit to give up cap space here.

Fair enough

From a value perspective, it's OK for Detroit. From an asset accumulation perspective, i think it's the wrong direction

Yeah sounds like its a universal miss. I just want it to be a miss for what it is, not what it isn't.

[tmorgan]

On a historically awful team, the one guy (that isn’t a lotto pick with some kind of “potential”) that gets brought up all the time in trade ideas is Isaiah Stewart. There’s a reason for that, and it’s apparent if you ended up watching a Pistons game or two accidentally last year.

Although I understand the sentiment of freeing Beef Stew, because no one deserves to lose like this, he’s locked in long term at a MLE level deal, and he’s a playable rotation big on literally any team in the league. Can shoot wide open, defend in space to some extent, defend down low, rebound, and doesn’t take any isht. He’s the VP of the locker room in Detroit behind President Cade, and he works hard all the time.

I don’t think Detroit trades him. Ever. But he deserves better.

[theBigLip]

On a historically awful team, the one guy (that isn’t a lotto pick with some kind of “potential”) that gets brought up all the time in trade ideas is Isaiah Stewart. There’s a reason for that, and it’s apparent if you ended up watching a Pistons game or two accidentally last year.

Although I understand the sentiment of freeing Beef Stew, because no one deserves to lose like this, he’s locked in long term at a MLE level deal, and he’s a playable rotation big on literally any team in the league. Can shoot wide open, defend in space to some extent, defend down low, rebound, and doesn’t take any isht. He’s the VP of the locker room in Detroit behind President Cade, and he works hard all the time.

I don’t think Detroit trades him. Ever. But he deserves better.

Agreed. He’s not our problem. Need to use our cap space to get some good 2way players. I would consider picking up Herro and DRob (I know neither is great at D) but not giving up big assets to do that.

[DetroitDon15]

On a historically awful team, the one guy (that isn’t a lotto pick with some kind of “potential”) that gets brought up all the time in trade ideas is Isaiah Stewart. There’s a reason for that, and it’s apparent if you ended up watching a Pistons game or two accidentally last year.

Although I understand the sentiment of freeing Beef Stew, because no one deserves to lose like this, he’s locked in long term at a MLE level deal, and he’s a playable rotation big on literally any team in the league. Can shoot wide open, defend in space to some extent, defend down low, rebound, and doesn’t take any isht. He’s the VP of the locker room in Detroit behind President Cade, and he works hard all the time.

I don’t think Detroit trades him. Ever. But he deserves better.

Agreed. He’s not our problem. Need to use our cap space to get some good 2way players. I would consider picking up Herro and DRob (I know neither is great at D) but not giving up big assets to do that.

I agree that both (Herro and Robinson) would be good fits. I do understand that we need two way players but also need shooter. Maybe Ivey for the two would work. I think that Herro would be a better backcourt fit with Cade.

[Sactowndog]

Kings trade: Barnes/Huerter/#13
Kings get: Herro/Grimes

Heat trade: Herro/Orlando Robinson/#15
Heat get: Barnes/Stewart/#13

Pistons trade: Stewart/Grimes
Pistons get: Huerter/Orlando Robinson#15

Pistons combine two backup caliber players for a backup caliber shooter and a mid 1st
Heat brought in Rozier who can replace Herro, now they get a spacing center to backup Bam, they can share some minutes and a solid shooting forward in Barnes. Also move up a couple spots in the draft.
Kings upgrade Huerter/Monk into one player and pick up Grimes for more depth. Will obviously need to find a forward with their MLE, but their team is better.

I hate this trade for a couple reasons.

1) as a Kings (shared) season ticket holder Keon Ellis to me is the ideal 3 and D backcourt partner with Fox. Yes Herro is a 43% C&S 3 point percentage but Ellis had a 42.4% C&S 3 point percent. I think he will keep getting better with time. Herro is a step back defensively and much more expensive.


2) we desperately need forward help. Assuming we use 13 on a small forward, we actually get weaker at the small forward spot loosing both Barnes and 13. We need to get longer and this trade takes us backwards.

[Mr Peanut]

Appreciate the creativity of the trade. From Detroit's perspective I'd be less inclined to accept. I'm probably higher on Grimes than most - I think if he can get over his knee problems and continue on an upward trajectory from his second season with the Knicks then he has very high end 3+D potential and is a potential starter next to Cade. Stewart is a quality backup big and currently our best defender.

Huerter is overpaid for what he provides, and #15 in this draft might be closer to a pick in the 20s in most drafts. Just doesn't feel like enough value is coming back to Detroit.