2019 Raptors vs 2024 Celtics

[Roger Murdock]

I honestly think Celtic fans are living in the moment.

They'd be overrated when compared to other championship teams, but they are still a worthy championship team.

I say this simply because they are not as big of a juggernaut as they think they are.

Or to put this another way, I think the 2019 Raptors would put this Celtics team away in 6, however the 2008 Celtics team would beat us.

Yes, i'm saying the KG Celtics would most likely take this Celtics team in 5. This is why i'm saying they are not historical.

There isn't a single player on 'this' Celtics team that's on the level of prime Kawhi, but that 2008 Celtics team had prime KG.


Simply put if Celtics fans think the team is that great, compare it to other Celtic teams and take off the homer glasses when comparing.

The counterpoint is that Luka is better than Kawhi was and the Mavericks are still getting beat. This Boston team 1-8 is just much better than the Raptors were and Kawhi being a little better than Tatum doesnt swing it.

every time doncic met kawhi in the postseason he was obliterated with the only exception being this year but kawhi barely played.

Luka is 3/3 being the best player in the series in Clippers matchups

[brackdan70]

What are you basing that on?

Hopes and dreams

last year's playoffs

lol.

[greekman]

The counterpoint is that Luka is better than Kawhi was and the Mavericks are still getting beat. This Boston team 1-8 is just much better than the Raptors were and Kawhi being a little better than Tatum doesnt swing it.

every time doncic met kawhi in the postseason he was obliterated with the only exception being this year but kawhi barely played.

Luka is 3/3 being the best player in the series in Clippers matchups

2021 quarterfinals beat dallas kawhi 32/8/5 61% shooting

[ITYSL]

What are you basing that on?

Hopes and dreams

last year's playoffs

Lol. Different year, different teams. Like I said, your hypothetical is based on hopes and dreams.

[binjumper]

Raptors 2019 had the biggest scumbag fans ever. Cheering on an injury?

https://youtu.be/aFnFHX_XbWQ?si=xwMYpCO3H656bP_4

What does one individual fan have anything to do with the teams roster? are people really this clueless.

[greekman]

Hopes and dreams

last year's playoffs

Different year, different teams. Like I said, your hypothetical is based on hopes and dreams.

butler healthy, miami wins. same team butler, rozier not playing miami loses. that's the track record

[stillgotgame]

Raptors 2019 had the biggest scumbag fans ever. Cheering on an injury?

https://youtu.be/aFnFHX_XbWQ?si=xwMYpCO3H656bP_4

What does one individual fan have anything to do with the teams roster? are people really this clueless.

You can't hear the whole arena cheering on KD's injury? Can't you see how embarrassed Drake is?

[Duffman100]

White > Lowery

My mind has changed on white, but there is just no universe he's better than Lowry.

Player A- 14.2/4.8/8.7 TS% .562 Winshares 6.6 BPM 2.3 decent defender but nothing special.

Player B- 15.2/ 4.2/5.2 TS% .611 WS 8.5 BPM 3.8 exceptional defender.

I am taking player B in several universes.

Calling Lowry a"decent defender is ... ridiculous.

Lowry was also the 2nd best player on his title team. Derrick white is not.

[Vampirate]

Kyle Lowry: 14.2 points, 4.2 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 1.4 steals, 0.5 blocks, 2.8 turnovers, 0.558 TS
Derrick White: 15.2 points, 4.2 rebounds, 5.2 assists, 1 steal, 1.2 blocks, 1.5 turnovers, 0.612 TS
Verdict: White

Danny Green: 10.3 points, 4 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.7 blocks, 0.9 turnovers, 0.631 TS
Jrue Holiday: 12.5 points, 5.4 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.8 blocks, 1.8 turnovers, 0.599 TS
Verdict: Holiday

Kawhi Leonard: 26.6 points, 7.3 rebounds, 3.3 assists, 1.8 steals, 0.4 blocks, 2 turnovers, 0.607 TS
Jaylen Brown: 23 points, 5.5 rebounds, 3.6 assists, 1.2 steals, 0.5 blocks, 2.4 turnovers, 0.581
Verdict: Leonard

Pascal Siakam: 16.9 points, 6.9 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.7 blocks, 1.9 turnovers, 0.627 TS
Jayson Tatum: 26.9 points, 8.1 rebounds, 4.9 assists, 1 steal, 0.6 blocks, 2.5 turnovers, 0.605 TS
Verdict: Tatum

Serge Ibaka: 15 points, 8.1 rebounds, 1.3 assists, 0.4 steals, 1.4 blocks, 1.5 turnovers, 0.579 TS
Kristaps Porziņģis: 20.1 points, 7.2 rebounds, 2 assists, 0.7 steals, 1.9 blocks, 1.6 turnovers, 0.647 TS
Verdict: Porziņģis

VanVleet+Gasol+Powell+OG: 35.7 points, 14 rebounds, 11 assists, 3.2 steals, 1.7 blocks, 4.6 turnovers, 0.559 TS
Horford+Pritchard+Hauser+Kornet: 32.5 points, 17 rebounds, 8.1 assists, 2 steals, 2.4 blocks, 2.1 turnovers, 0.639 TS
Verdict: Boston bench

Toronto: 5th ORTG, 5th DRTG, 3rd NETRTG, 58 wins, 3rd SRS (5.49)
Boston: 1st ORTG, 3rd DRTG, 1st NETRTG, 64 wins, 1st SRS (10.74)
Verdict: Boston

Some flawed reasoning here.

As your aware we didn't play Kawhi the full season. If there ever was a thing as a Full season healthy Kawhi our regular season record and stats would be better. It's the same application of a full regular season Porgz tbh.

Anyways

I'm going off playoff stats/impact for the championship years

White vs Lowry - Edge White, my fandom aside, this isn't 2015 Lowry here, it's 2019. Lowry is the better player overall, but probably not at that year. I'll concede here.

Jrue Holiday vs Danny Green - Easy winner of Holiday here, there's no debate, none. This is probably the biggest gap for the Celtics.

Tatum vs Kawhi - Easy winner of the debate going to the Raptors, there's again no debate, you really need to see Kawhi's efficiency in those playoffs and the scoring bulk and then compare it to Tatum these playoffs, Kawhi is just on an entirely different level than anyone else.

Brown vs Siakam - Brown wins, and again this isn't current Siakam it's 2019 version, but not at his current offensive repertoire. I'd say Siakam has the better defense/passing, but not the better scoring.

All Hortford/(Porgz injured) vs Gasol - Gasol wins, let's put the injury part aside here but Gasol was a defensive nightmare to go up against. Gasol is the 2nd reason aside from Kawhi why i'd give the Raptors the edge. Porgz is the better offensive player, but has nowhere the defensive warping capabilities Gasol had.

Bench - Ibaka, Van Vleet, Powell, (OG injured)

vs

(Horford in the starting lineup), Pritchard, Hauser, Kornet

FVV would not be going nuclear like he did against Milwalkee, I see him struggling like he did vs the 76ers. Powell though is a consistent playoff performer for a roleplayer. Ibaka is also a quality playoff roleplayer.

As for the Celtics minus Hortford, you'd tell me better than I could their strengths and weaknesses.

In the end I think both teams could lock up each other's best player, except for 1, Kawhi.

[brackdan70]

My mind has changed on white, but there is just no universe he's better than Lowry.

Player A- 14.2/4.8/8.7 TS% .562 Winshares 6.6 BPM 2.3 decent defender but nothing special.

Player B- 15.2/ 4.2/5.2 TS% .611 WS 8.5 BPM 3.8 exceptional defender.

I am taking player B in several universes.

Calling Lowry a"decent defender is ... ridiculous.

Lowry was also the 2nd best player on his title team. Derrick white is not.

Ok he was a solid defender but nothing special.
Being the second best player on that team is a good argument for them not being better than whites team.

[Duffman100]

Player A- 14.2/4.8/8.7 TS% .562 Winshares 6.6 BPM 2.3 decent defender but nothing special.

Player B- 15.2/ 4.2/5.2 TS% .611 WS 8.5 BPM 3.8 exceptional defender.

I am taking player B in several universes.

Calling Lowry a"decent defender is ... ridiculous.

Lowry was also the 2nd best player on his title team. Derrick white is not.

Ok he was a solid defender but nothing special.
Being the second best player on that team is a good argument for them not being better than whites team.

A solid defender who would take more charges than multiple teams combined. Mmmkay.

And 2nd best player means he faced more defensive attention.

Do you honestly believe if Derrick white was a teams best player, they'd win 50 games consistently like the Raptors did?

[username_taken]

raptors played a healthy milwaukee and philly with butler. celtics would not have beaten a healthy heat or milwaukee team this year.

Did you just say the HEAT? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[brackdan70]

Calling Lowry a"decent defender is ... ridiculous.

Lowry was also the 2nd best player on his title team. Derrick white is not.

Ok he was a solid defender but nothing special.
Being the second best player on that team is a good argument for them not being better than whites team.

A solid defender who would take more charges than multiple teams combined. Mmmkay.

And 2nd best player means he faced more defensive attention.

Do you honestly believe if Derrick white was a teams best player, they'd win 50 games consistently like the Raptors did?

Who made that arguement that a White lead team would win 50 games.
Just saying 2024 White is a better player than 2019 Lowry and the facts back that up, regardless what your emotions feel.

[PushDaRock]

Celtics sweep or 5 games absolute max. No offense but this Celtics team is literally one of the best teams of all time by most stats

On paper, the 73 win Warriors should have breezed through to a championship too and yet they ended up losing the same amount of games in the playoffs as they did in the entire regular season.

[Roger Murdock]

People are focusing too much on names

Basketball is about a combination of skillsets

Celtics / Raptors league rank

PP100: 1/5
3pt%: 2/6
2pt%: 2/7
TOs: 1/15
FT%: both 80.5%

Defensive Stats:
PP100: 3/5
3pt%: 4/9
2pt%: 2/6
TOs: 27/7
DRB%: 11/15

So the Celtics are better at scoring, defending, rebounding, and avoiding turnovers. Raptors are better at forcing turnovers, but neither teams systems prioritized it much. Celtics did way better in the regular season, and baring something crazy, way better in the playoffs.

[Vampirate]

Ok he was a solid defender but nothing special.
Being the second best player on that team is a good argument for them not being better than whites team.

A solid defender who would take more charges than multiple teams combined. Mmmkay.

And 2nd best player means he faced more defensive attention.

Do you honestly believe if Derrick white was a teams best player, they'd win 50 games consistently like the Raptors did?

Who made that arguement that a White lead team would win 50 games.
Just saying 2024 White is a better player than 2019 Lowry and the facts back that up, regardless what your emotions feel.

And 2019 playoff Kawhi is on a much higher level than anyone else that's on either roster, and the facts back that up, regardless what your emotions feel.

As i've said, both teams are capable of shutting down each other, but nether has the capability of shutting down 2019 playoff Kawhi.

He alone basically gives the Raptors the edge for that exact reason.

[bovice]

Bucks and 76ers that year were better than any team Boston beat this year. I don't know who the better team is but the 2019 is a much tougher ring to earn.

[r0drig0lac]

I give TOR the edge because of Kawhi. But on TOR’s depth, important to establish that FVV and OG were not the players they grew to be then. FVV wouldn’t make an all star team until 3 years later. OG’s game has expanded a ton. Siakam and Norm grew their games as well.

Raps had a lot of young players who have gone to grow their games, but it’s inaccurate to just assume that they were their fully developed selves sitting on the bench there. Again, I still take TOR because of Kawhi but important to call that out.

I honestly think Celtic fans are living in the moment.

They'd be overrated when compared to other championship teams, but they are still a worthy championship team.

I say this simply because they are not as big of a juggernaut as they think they are.

Or to put this another way, I think the 2019 Raptors would put this Celtics team away in 6, however the 2008 Celtics team would beat us.

Yes, i'm saying the KG Celtics would most likely take this Celtics team in 5. This is why i'm saying they are not historical.

There isn't a single player on 'this' Celtics team that's on the level of prime Kawhi, but that 2008 Celtics team had prime KG.


Simply put if Celtics fans think the team is that great, compare it to other Celtic teams and take off the homer glasses when comparing.

The counterpoint is that Luka is better than Kawhi was and the Mavericks are still getting beat. This Boston team 1-8 is just much better than the Raptors were and Kawhi being a little better than Tatum doesnt swing it.

lol

[Anticon]

It would be a good series. Don't think you can compare the seasons as the Raps didn't have great regular season and their playoff opponents were much harder.

I don't think Boston would have anyone to handle Gasol and he would've been strong against Horford and KP.

Tatum would be less of an issue with Kawhi and Green. But Brown and Jrue would be a problem to deal with. Raps bench (Ibaka, Norm, FVV) was better.

So a close series. My bias says Raps but you might have to go Celtics given they were stronger and more consistent.

[SFour]

if Kawhi is 100% healthy in this hypothetical situation then Raptors hands down....he would be toying with them. Tatum and Brown would be in awe at what real greatness looks like.