2019 Raptors vs 2024 Celtics

[PushDaRock]

Kyle Lowry: 14.2 points, 4.2 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 1.4 steals, 0.5 blocks, 2.8 turnovers, 0.558 TS
Derrick White: 15.2 points, 4.2 rebounds, 5.2 assists, 1 steal, 1.2 blocks, 1.5 turnovers, 0.612 TS
Verdict: White

Danny Green: 10.3 points, 4 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.7 blocks, 0.9 turnovers, 0.631 TS
Jrue Holiday: 12.5 points, 5.4 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.8 blocks, 1.8 turnovers, 0.599 TS
Verdict: Holiday

Kawhi Leonard: 26.6 points, 7.3 rebounds, 3.3 assists, 1.8 steals, 0.4 blocks, 2 turnovers, 0.607 TS
Jaylen Brown: 23 points, 5.5 rebounds, 3.6 assists, 1.2 steals, 0.5 blocks, 2.4 turnovers, 0.581
Verdict: Leonard

Pascal Siakam: 16.9 points, 6.9 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.7 blocks, 1.9 turnovers, 0.627 TS
Jayson Tatum: 26.9 points, 8.1 rebounds, 4.9 assists, 1 steal, 0.6 blocks, 2.5 turnovers, 0.605 TS
Verdict: Tatum

Serge Ibaka: 15 points, 8.1 rebounds, 1.3 assists, 0.4 steals, 1.4 blocks, 1.5 turnovers, 0.579 TS
Kristaps Porziņģis: 20.1 points, 7.2 rebounds, 2 assists, 0.7 steals, 1.9 blocks, 1.6 turnovers, 0.647 TS
Verdict: Porziņģis

VanVleet+Gasol+Powell+OG: 35.7 points, 14 rebounds, 11 assists, 3.2 steals, 1.7 blocks, 4.6 turnovers, 0.559 TS
Horford+Pritchard+Hauser+Kornet: 32.5 points, 17 rebounds, 8.1 assists, 2 steals, 2.4 blocks, 2.1 turnovers, 0.639 TS
Verdict: Boston bench

Toronto: 5th ORTG, 5th DRTG, 3rd NETRTG, 58 wins, 3rd SRS (5.49)
Boston: 1st ORTG, 3rd DRTG, 1st NETRTG, 64 wins, 1st SRS (10.74)
Verdict: Boston

I don't think using numbers is a good way to compare the 2 teams in this context. It's just 5 years ago, but the game has evolved a lot since then as well. League average TS% was 56% in 18-19 vs 58% this year. League average ORTG in 18-19 was 110.4 vs 115.3 this year. Offenses have just improved by a lot in the span of 5 years.

When comparing a fantasy match-up like this, I think we need to be leveling the playing field in some ways where we make the assumption that if that 2019 Raptors team were around in 2024, they would be more efficient than these numbers and vice versa, the 2024 Celtics would be less efficient than they are now playing in 2019.

The Playoffs are also about matchups and not just numbers and we have seen regular season dominance like the 73-9 Warriors not win a championship.

[Duffman100]

Ok he was a solid defender but nothing special.
Being the second best player on that team is a good argument for them not being better than whites team.

A solid defender who would take more charges than multiple teams combined. Mmmkay.

And 2nd best player means he faced more defensive attention.

Do you honestly believe if Derrick white was a teams best player, they'd win 50 games consistently like the Raptors did?

Who made that arguement that a White lead team would win 50 games.
Just saying 2024 White is a better player than 2019 Lowry and the facts back that up, regardless what your emotions feel.

Because Lowry was leading a 50 win team the season before and was the same level of player the next season.

This is why we actually watch games and not focus purely on stats.

[Vampirate]

Here's what Kawhi did in the 2019 playoffs over 24 games.



Just...unreal

[ajones9219]

Celtics sweep or 5 games absolute max. No offense but this Celtics team is literally one of the best teams of all time by most stats

On paper, the 73 win Warriors should have breezed through to a championship too and yet they ended up losing the same amount of games in the playoffs as they did in the entire regular season.

They also ran into the 2nd best player of All Time in his prime or near it....and even with that, the W's would have won if not for losing Draymond

[Vampirate]

Celtics sweep or 5 games absolute max. No offense but this Celtics team is literally one of the best teams of all time by most stats

On paper, the 73 win Warriors should have breezed through to a championship too and yet they ended up losing the same amount of games in the playoffs as they did in the entire regular season.

They also ran into the 2nd best player of All Time in his prime or near it....and even with that, the W's would have won if not for losing Draymond

I'll repeat this again.

Compare this Celtics team against the 2008 Celtics with KG/PP/Ray Allen/Rondo

Who wins?

If it's the best team of all time by most stats, then it should crush any other Celtic championship teams as well.

[ajones9219]

On paper, the 73 win Warriors should have breezed through to a championship too and yet they ended up losing the same amount of games in the playoffs as they did in the entire regular season.

They also ran into the 2nd best player of All Time in his prime or near it....and even with that, the W's would have won if not for losing Draymond

I'll repeat this again.

Compare this Celtics team against the 2008 Celtics with KG/PP/Ray Allen/Rondo

Who wins?

If it's the best team of all time by most stats, then it should crush any other Celtic championship teams as well.

The 08 team is also statistically a top 6 team of all time by net rating. (2024: 11.6, 2008: 11.3)

I would take the 2024 Celtics in 7.

[PushDaRock]

Celtics sweep or 5 games absolute max. No offense but this Celtics team is literally one of the best teams of all time by most stats

On paper, the 73 win Warriors should have breezed through to a championship too and yet they ended up losing the same amount of games in the playoffs as they did in the entire regular season.

They also ran into the 2nd best player of All Time in his prime or near it....and even with that, the W's would have won if not for losing Draymond

They also were down 3-1 to OKC and almost never even made it there.

[D.Brasco]

Here's what Kawhi did in the 2019 playoffs over 24 games.



Just...unreal

Kawhi left his heart in that city, should have stayed

[ITYSL]

Kyle Lowry: 14.2 points, 4.2 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 1.4 steals, 0.5 blocks, 2.8 turnovers, 0.558 TS
Derrick White: 15.2 points, 4.2 rebounds, 5.2 assists, 1 steal, 1.2 blocks, 1.5 turnovers, 0.612 TS
Verdict: White

Danny Green: 10.3 points, 4 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.7 blocks, 0.9 turnovers, 0.631 TS
Jrue Holiday: 12.5 points, 5.4 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.8 blocks, 1.8 turnovers, 0.599 TS
Verdict: Holiday

Kawhi Leonard: 26.6 points, 7.3 rebounds, 3.3 assists, 1.8 steals, 0.4 blocks, 2 turnovers, 0.607 TS
Jaylen Brown: 23 points, 5.5 rebounds, 3.6 assists, 1.2 steals, 0.5 blocks, 2.4 turnovers, 0.581
Verdict: Leonard

Pascal Siakam: 16.9 points, 6.9 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.7 blocks, 1.9 turnovers, 0.627 TS
Jayson Tatum: 26.9 points, 8.1 rebounds, 4.9 assists, 1 steal, 0.6 blocks, 2.5 turnovers, 0.605 TS
Verdict: Tatum

Serge Ibaka: 15 points, 8.1 rebounds, 1.3 assists, 0.4 steals, 1.4 blocks, 1.5 turnovers, 0.579 TS
Kristaps Porziņģis: 20.1 points, 7.2 rebounds, 2 assists, 0.7 steals, 1.9 blocks, 1.6 turnovers, 0.647 TS
Verdict: Porziņģis

VanVleet+Gasol+Powell+OG: 35.7 points, 14 rebounds, 11 assists, 3.2 steals, 1.7 blocks, 4.6 turnovers, 0.559 TS
Horford+Pritchard+Hauser+Kornet: 32.5 points, 17 rebounds, 8.1 assists, 2 steals, 2.4 blocks, 2.1 turnovers, 0.639 TS
Verdict: Boston bench

Toronto: 5th ORTG, 5th DRTG, 3rd NETRTG, 58 wins, 3rd SRS (5.49)
Boston: 1st ORTG, 3rd DRTG, 1st NETRTG, 64 wins, 1st SRS (10.74)
Verdict: Boston

Some flawed reasoning here.

As your aware we didn't play Kawhi the full season. If there ever was a thing as a Full season healthy Kawhi our regular season record and stats would be better. It's the same application of a full regular season Porgz tbh.

Anyways

I'm going off playoff stats/impact for the championship years

White vs Lowry - Edge White, my fandom aside, this isn't 2015 Lowry here, it's 2019. Lowry is the better player overall, but probably not at that year. I'll concede here.

Jrue Holiday vs Danny Green - Easy winner of Holiday here, there's no debate, none. This is probably the biggest gap for the Celtics.

Tatum vs Kawhi - Easy winner of the debate going to the Raptors, there's again no debate, you really need to see Kawhi's efficiency in those playoffs and the scoring bulk and then compare it to Tatum these playoffs, Kawhi is just on an entirely different level than anyone else.

Brown vs Siakam - Brown wins, and again this isn't current Siakam it's 2019 version, but not at his current offensive repertoire. I'd say Siakam has the better defense/passing, but not the better scoring.

All Hortford/(Porgz injured) vs Gasol - Gasol wins, let's put the injury part aside here but Gasol was a defensive nightmare to go up against. Gasol is the 2nd reason aside from Kawhi why i'd give the Raptors the edge. Porgz is the better offensive player, but has nowhere the defensive warping capabilities Gasol had.

Bench - Ibaka, Van Vleet, Powell, (OG injured)

vs

(Horford in the starting lineup), Pritchard, Hauser, Kornet

FVV would not be going nuclear like he did against Milwalkee, I see him struggling like he did vs the 76ers. Powell though is a consistent playoff performer for a roleplayer. Ibaka is also a quality playoff roleplayer.

As for the Celtics minus Hortford, you'd tell me better than I could their strengths and weaknesses.

In the end I think both teams could lock up each other's best player, except for 1, Kawhi.

I understand where you're coming from regarding just looking at the regular season and the Raptors having injuries then.

However, the Celtics net rating these playoffs has been +11.1, and that's without Porzingis for most of the run. The Raptors were +5.6.

The Celtics have lost two games all postseason. People talk about those two losses as if they're evidence that the Celtics are overrated. But the Raptors that postseason lost a game to the Magic that postseason, a team whose leading scorers that series were Aaron Gordon and Terrence Ross. They also got pushed to 7 games vs. the Sixers and 6 vs. the Bucks, so it's not like they were just a complete buzzsaw through the playoffs.

I think it would be a good series but Celtics are clearly the better historical squad.

[ajones9219]

On paper, the 73 win Warriors should have breezed through to a championship too and yet they ended up losing the same amount of games in the playoffs as they did in the entire regular season.

They also ran into the 2nd best player of All Time in his prime or near it....and even with that, the W's would have won if not for losing Draymond

They also were down 3-1 to OKC and almost never even made it there.

And the 73 win warriors are not statistically a Top 6 team of all-time. Both the 08 and 2024 Celtics are better by multiple metrics. 2017 Warriors are 3rd best by net rating though.

[Vampirate]

Here's what Kawhi did in the 2019 playoffs over 24 games.



Just...unreal

Kawhi left his heart in that city, should have stayed

You need to move on from it, he would be gone either way and either way his body would just disobey him.

2019 was the best possible outcome essentially. Clippers fans know this as we speak.

In terms of outcomes, unless he has another showing of 2019 and lasts that long they'd probably trade places with us.

[ITYSL]

Kyle Lowry: 14.2 points, 4.2 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 1.4 steals, 0.5 blocks, 2.8 turnovers, 0.558 TS
Derrick White: 15.2 points, 4.2 rebounds, 5.2 assists, 1 steal, 1.2 blocks, 1.5 turnovers, 0.612 TS
Verdict: White

Danny Green: 10.3 points, 4 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.7 blocks, 0.9 turnovers, 0.631 TS
Jrue Holiday: 12.5 points, 5.4 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.8 blocks, 1.8 turnovers, 0.599 TS
Verdict: Holiday

Kawhi Leonard: 26.6 points, 7.3 rebounds, 3.3 assists, 1.8 steals, 0.4 blocks, 2 turnovers, 0.607 TS
Jaylen Brown: 23 points, 5.5 rebounds, 3.6 assists, 1.2 steals, 0.5 blocks, 2.4 turnovers, 0.581
Verdict: Leonard

Pascal Siakam: 16.9 points, 6.9 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.7 blocks, 1.9 turnovers, 0.627 TS
Jayson Tatum: 26.9 points, 8.1 rebounds, 4.9 assists, 1 steal, 0.6 blocks, 2.5 turnovers, 0.605 TS
Verdict: Tatum

Serge Ibaka: 15 points, 8.1 rebounds, 1.3 assists, 0.4 steals, 1.4 blocks, 1.5 turnovers, 0.579 TS
Kristaps Porziņģis: 20.1 points, 7.2 rebounds, 2 assists, 0.7 steals, 1.9 blocks, 1.6 turnovers, 0.647 TS
Verdict: Porziņģis

VanVleet+Gasol+Powell+OG: 35.7 points, 14 rebounds, 11 assists, 3.2 steals, 1.7 blocks, 4.6 turnovers, 0.559 TS
Horford+Pritchard+Hauser+Kornet: 32.5 points, 17 rebounds, 8.1 assists, 2 steals, 2.4 blocks, 2.1 turnovers, 0.639 TS
Verdict: Boston bench

Toronto: 5th ORTG, 5th DRTG, 3rd NETRTG, 58 wins, 3rd SRS (5.49)
Boston: 1st ORTG, 3rd DRTG, 1st NETRTG, 64 wins, 1st SRS (10.74)
Verdict: Boston

I don't think using numbers is a good way to compare the 2 teams in this context. It's just 5 years ago, but the game has evolved a lot since then as well. League average TS% was 56% in 18-19 vs 58% this year. League average ORTG in 18-19 was 110.4 vs 115.3 this year. Offenses have just improved by a lot in the span of 5 years.

When comparing a fantasy match-up like this, I think we need to be leveling the playing field in some ways where we make the assumption that if that 2019 Raptors team were around in 2024, they would be more efficient than these numbers and vice versa, the 2024 Celtics would be less efficient than they are now playing in 2019.

The Playoffs are also about matchups and not just numbers and we have seen regular season dominance like the 73-9 Warriors not win a championship.

Fair enough, but I also used team rankings in ORTG, DRTG, NETRTG and SRS. Those are independent of era and simply look at how each team was that season in comparison to the rest of the league.

If you just want to look at the playoffs, the Celtics are 2nd in ORTG, 3rd in DRTG and 1st in NETRTG. The title-winning Raptors those playoffs were 7th in ORTG, 4th in DRTG, and 2nd in NETRTG.

If you're not willing to entertain any numbers comparing the two squads, then it's not really much of a conversation in my opinion. It's just an "eye test" debate, and biases come a lot more into play.

[ITYSL]

last year's playoffs

Different year, different teams. Like I said, your hypothetical is based on hopes and dreams.

butler healthy, miami wins. same team butler, rozier not playing miami loses. that's the track record

There is no track record. That's the point. You're creating hypotheticals and saying last year's playoffs with significantly different rosters for all three teams is somehow evidence of your hypothetical. It's not.

[D.Brasco]

Here's what Kawhi did in the 2019 playoffs over 24 games.



Just...unreal

Kawhi left his heart in that city, should have stayed

You need to move on from it, he would be gone either way and either way his body would just disobey him.

2019 was the best possible outcome essentially. Clippers fans know this as we speak.

In terms of outcomes, unless he has another showing of 2019 and lasts that long they'd probably trade places with us.

Had he stayed the Raptors would have had very good odds to repeat with the players they had that year in 2020. That probably would have been the last hurrah though.

[PushDaRock]

Kyle Lowry: 14.2 points, 4.2 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 1.4 steals, 0.5 blocks, 2.8 turnovers, 0.558 TS
Derrick White: 15.2 points, 4.2 rebounds, 5.2 assists, 1 steal, 1.2 blocks, 1.5 turnovers, 0.612 TS
Verdict: White

Danny Green: 10.3 points, 4 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.7 blocks, 0.9 turnovers, 0.631 TS
Jrue Holiday: 12.5 points, 5.4 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.8 blocks, 1.8 turnovers, 0.599 TS
Verdict: Holiday

Kawhi Leonard: 26.6 points, 7.3 rebounds, 3.3 assists, 1.8 steals, 0.4 blocks, 2 turnovers, 0.607 TS
Jaylen Brown: 23 points, 5.5 rebounds, 3.6 assists, 1.2 steals, 0.5 blocks, 2.4 turnovers, 0.581
Verdict: Leonard

Pascal Siakam: 16.9 points, 6.9 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.7 blocks, 1.9 turnovers, 0.627 TS
Jayson Tatum: 26.9 points, 8.1 rebounds, 4.9 assists, 1 steal, 0.6 blocks, 2.5 turnovers, 0.605 TS
Verdict: Tatum

Serge Ibaka: 15 points, 8.1 rebounds, 1.3 assists, 0.4 steals, 1.4 blocks, 1.5 turnovers, 0.579 TS
Kristaps Porziņģis: 20.1 points, 7.2 rebounds, 2 assists, 0.7 steals, 1.9 blocks, 1.6 turnovers, 0.647 TS
Verdict: Porziņģis

VanVleet+Gasol+Powell+OG: 35.7 points, 14 rebounds, 11 assists, 3.2 steals, 1.7 blocks, 4.6 turnovers, 0.559 TS
Horford+Pritchard+Hauser+Kornet: 32.5 points, 17 rebounds, 8.1 assists, 2 steals, 2.4 blocks, 2.1 turnovers, 0.639 TS
Verdict: Boston bench

Toronto: 5th ORTG, 5th DRTG, 3rd NETRTG, 58 wins, 3rd SRS (5.49)
Boston: 1st ORTG, 3rd DRTG, 1st NETRTG, 64 wins, 1st SRS (10.74)
Verdict: Boston

I don't think using numbers is a good way to compare the 2 teams in this context. It's just 5 years ago, but the game has evolved a lot since then as well. League average TS% was 56% in 18-19 vs 58% this year. League average ORTG in 18-19 was 110.4 vs 115.3 this year. Offenses have just improved by a lot in the span of 5 years.

When comparing a fantasy match-up like this, I think we need to be leveling the playing field in some ways where we make the assumption that if that 2019 Raptors team were around in 2024, they would be more efficient than these numbers and vice versa, the 2024 Celtics would be less efficient than they are now playing in 2019.

The Playoffs are also about matchups and not just numbers and we have seen regular season dominance like the 73-9 Warriors not win a championship.

Fair enough, but I also used team rankings in ORTG, DRTG, NETRTG and SRS. Those are independent of era and simply look at how each team was that season in comparison to the rest of the league.

If you just want to look at the playoffs, the Celtics are 2nd in ORTG, 3rd in DRTG and 1st in NETRTG. The title-winning Raptors those playoffs were 7th in ORTG, 4th in DRTG, and 2nd in NETRTG.

If you're not willing to entertain any numbers comparing the two squads, then it's not really much of a conversation in my opinion. It's just an "eye test" debate, and biases come a lot more into play.

A hypothetical fantasy match-up is going to come down more to eye test in my opinion. Sure, it's possible we have more biases based off an eye test but If we use just numbers, the Celtics objectively had a far easier road to a Championship than the Raptors. That's going to obviously skew numbers more towards the Celtics favor as well. That Raptors team also took a while to peak, they struggled badly in the Sixers series and got down 2-0 to the Bucks before waking up. They played their best Basketball when it mattered the most.

I'm not saying the numbers don't matter at all but it's just really difficult for me to say this Celtics team is as great as the regular numbers say because of the lack of challenge they have faced these playoffs. You could say they are just that great but imo the teams they have faced just aren't that good along with missing key players to boot.

[brackdan70]

A solid defender who would take more charges than multiple teams combined. Mmmkay.

And 2nd best player means he faced more defensive attention.

Do you honestly believe if Derrick white was a teams best player, they'd win 50 games consistently like the Raptors did?

Who made that arguement that a White lead team would win 50 games.
Just saying 2024 White is a better player than 2019 Lowry and the facts back that up, regardless what your emotions feel.

Because Lowry was leading a 50 win team the season before and was the same level of player the next season.

This is why we actually watch games and not focus purely on stats.

We are taking 2018 Lowry and putting him on the the 2019 team.
Right here right now 2024 White is better than 2019 Lowry and the facts don’t lie. You can have an opinion that goes against the facts. That’s fine. But we are done with this argument.

[cupcakesnake]

Kyle Lowry: 14.2 points, 4.2 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 1.4 steals, 0.5 blocks, 2.8 turnovers, 0.558 TS
Derrick White: 15.2 points, 4.2 rebounds, 5.2 assists, 1 steal, 1.2 blocks, 1.5 turnovers, 0.612 TS
Verdict: White

Danny Green: 10.3 points, 4 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.7 blocks, 0.9 turnovers, 0.631 TS
Jrue Holiday: 12.5 points, 5.4 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.8 blocks, 1.8 turnovers, 0.599 TS
Verdict: Holiday

Kawhi Leonard: 26.6 points, 7.3 rebounds, 3.3 assists, 1.8 steals, 0.4 blocks, 2 turnovers, 0.607 TS
Jaylen Brown: 23 points, 5.5 rebounds, 3.6 assists, 1.2 steals, 0.5 blocks, 2.4 turnovers, 0.581
Verdict: Leonard

Pascal Siakam: 16.9 points, 6.9 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.7 blocks, 1.9 turnovers, 0.627 TS
Jayson Tatum: 26.9 points, 8.1 rebounds, 4.9 assists, 1 steal, 0.6 blocks, 2.5 turnovers, 0.605 TS
Verdict: Tatum

Serge Ibaka: 15 points, 8.1 rebounds, 1.3 assists, 0.4 steals, 1.4 blocks, 1.5 turnovers, 0.579 TS
Kristaps Porziņģis: 20.1 points, 7.2 rebounds, 2 assists, 0.7 steals, 1.9 blocks, 1.6 turnovers, 0.647 TS
Verdict: Porziņģis

VanVleet+Gasol+Powell+OG: 35.7 points, 14 rebounds, 11 assists, 3.2 steals, 1.7 blocks, 4.6 turnovers, 0.559 TS
Horford+Pritchard+Hauser+Kornet: 32.5 points, 17 rebounds, 8.1 assists, 2 steals, 2.4 blocks, 2.1 turnovers, 0.639 TS
Verdict: Boston bench

Toronto: 5th ORTG, 5th DRTG, 3rd NETRTG, 58 wins, 3rd SRS (5.49)
Boston: 1st ORTG, 3rd DRTG, 1st NETRTG, 64 wins, 1st SRS (10.74)
Verdict: Boston

I don't think using numbers is a good way to compare the 2 teams in this context. It's just 5 years ago, but the game has evolved a lot since then as well. League average TS% was 56% in 18-19 vs 58% this year. League average ORTG in 18-19 was 110.4 vs 115.3 this year. Offenses have just improved by a lot in the span of 5 years.

When comparing a fantasy match-up like this, I think we need to be leveling the playing field in some ways where we make the assumption that if that 2019 Raptors team were around in 2024, they would be more efficient than these numbers and vice versa, the 2024 Celtics would be less efficient than they are now playing in 2019.

The Playoffs are also about matchups and not just numbers and we have seen regular season dominance like the 73-9 Warriors not win a championship.

Fair enough, but I also used team rankings in ORTG, DRTG, NETRTG and SRS. Those are independent of era and simply look at how each team was that season in comparison to the rest of the league.

If you just want to look at the playoffs, the Celtics are 2nd in ORTG, 3rd in DRTG and 1st in NETRTG. The title-winning Raptors those playoffs were 7th in ORTG, 4th in DRTG, and 2nd in NETRTG.

If you're not willing to entertain any numbers comparing the two squads, then it's not really much of a conversation in my opinion. It's just an "eye test" debate, and biases come a lot more into play.

There's numbers you can use to compare playoff teams, but these ones don't capture a good picture for a couple reasons.

1. Hard to compare the Raps and Celts in the regular season because the Raptors made a big trade deadline deal for Gasol, and also went from resting Kawhi to having him play every game. The 2019 regular season Raps are not an accurate picture of the 2019 playoff Raps.

2. The playoffs are so specific because you play max 4 opponents so it REALLY matters who those opponents are. The Celtics are +11 against some historically weak opponents with a high level of injury. The injuries prevent us from even being able to use relative net rating based on opponent because- as just one example- the Heat are a +5 team with Jimmy Butler, but a -2 team without him. Now obviously I still think Boston beats all those opponents healthy, but it's not unreasonable to assume it might have been a little tougher and the Celtics aren't a whopping +11 coming out of it. They even had stronger opponents fall out early and not get a chance to play them. This cuts both ways too because the Raptors might have had a negative net rating against a healthy version of the Warriors. You just can't really compare Boston's opponents overall to the Raptors playing those version of Phili and Milwaukee.

You can and should use numbers, but we can't just post the numbers without thinking about how those numbers were produced, and lean on them as evidence in this theoretical matchup.

[ItsDanger]

Those who are familiar with Kawhi's record when healthy know the answer to this question.

[GeorgeMarcus]

The "not close" arguments on both sides are pretty silly

Personally I'm torn

[KingofTheClay]

There’s no way I’m betting against a healthy Kawhi when his opposition consists of perennial choker Jayson Tatum and chronically injured Porzingis.

Raps in a close 6.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk