Caitlin Clark left off USA Roster

[madskillz8]

The fact that this thread exists and is nearing 300 posts shows that most of you all don't give a crap about the WNBA and it's couple hundred players all of a sudden. You're just a member of the Caitlin Clark cult where it's all her all the time.

There are some that are legit CC fans and are disappointed.

There are some that just don’t get it from the business impact perspective and are kinda baffled there, and I can understand that.

Then there are too many who are the 2nd, but where they’re not just here to express their surprise. They’re here happy to have a chance to take a crap on the WNBA.

I think you (as an old WNBA fan) are trying hard to create artificial CC fans to justify your dislike towards her. There are 20-25 posters here criticizing the decision, and I would be very surprised if 2-3 of them are CC fans. Actually, most of us are just basketball fans who don't really like (or haven't tried) watching women's basketball at all, now checking some WNBA games here and there just because of the hype CC generated. You should ask yourself why you are extremely unhappy with the new audience who never watched a WNBA game before.

Do you know I've just purchased 5 tickets to Saturday's Dallas Wings game to go with my gf and her family? This is a consequence of CC's hype - which you are hating on... I'm sorry but as azcat11 just pointed out, it is so evident and does not look good. What's the other way to make WNBA more relevant, considering frequent complaining of its players about the salaries, without new fans? Do you really want to reject new fans and prefer irrelevant, non-profitable, very-cheap-tickets-but-still-empty-arenas organization?

I mean, I can't believe how many times I saw negative mentions of "people who never watched WNBA before CC". Why are you unhappy with people watching WNBA for the first time just because of the hype? Of course people need to start watching somewhere, right? Don't forget, at some point you were also a new WNBA fan while there were old WNBA fans...

[Billy Goat]

You all realize players can have accomplishments outside of the WNBA, right?

All these WNBA players played college, right? Are any as accomplished as Clark at age 22?

The rookies that make the Olympic team were better at basketball and/or fit better than CC at 22.

Taurasi: 3rd in MVP voting as a rookie
Parker: MVP
Stewie: 6th in MVP voting, 2nd in DPOY
Fowles: First team all defensive team center


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Per game, Clark has more points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocked shots than Taurasi had during her rookie year, while also having a higher TS %, and while also being blitzed more than any other player in the WNBA. Taurasi did take care of the ball a lot better, which is important, but otherwise there's no case for saying she was a better rookie than Clark.

In short, you don't want to bring up Taurasi if you are defending the decision to leave Clark off the team.

Clark’s wnba career to date is really irrelevant to the discussion as she’s only played 12 games. She’s currently the most popular female athlete on the planet playing a sport that’s more or less still in its startup phase because of revenue shortfalls. Other players not recognizing this is very petty but the ship has sailed at this point and if they don’t want her around no reason to belabor it.

[EmperorLocky]

My only question.

How is the WNBA growing when all the talk is about Clarke?

Best player in the WNBA is A'ja Wilson. Not a single topic has been made about her Nationally.

If you ask me this just feels like a player who should have went and created her own league. The WNBA is not growing it's growing for 1 player. She doesn't even have to be the best player to be the #1 topic.

Lost in all this her team sucks! That's the funny part. This has become a hate topic more than anything.

People are superfans for her and they want her to earn everything overnight.

How is the WNBA growing?
- Charter flights for all teams in the regular season and post season (heard theres been some issues at times or to start)
- Viewership is up.
- The players can opt out of current CBA after this year to renegotiate.
- The current rookie class has visibility: Clark, Reece, Cardoso, Cameron Brink etc.

Everything isn't going to happen for the league as a whole 'overnight' or in one season. Caitlin Clark is the start.
- Paige Bueckers is next years top prize potentially
- The new WNBA team in the Bay Area stated they have passed 12,000 season ticket deposits for 2025.

It's up to the WNBA and players to either embrace it or hate it.

Can't wait to see this league develop over the next decade. CC's influence already will be the reason so many young girls pick up a basketball and dream.

Salty players will only be remembered in future CC documentaries.

[JustBuzzin]

My only question.

How is the WNBA growing when all the talk is about Clarke?

Best player in the WNBA is A'ja Wilson. Not a single topic has been made about her Nationally.

If you ask me this just feels like a player who should have went and created her own league. The WNBA is not growing it's growing for 1 player. She doesn't even have to be the best player to be the #1 topic.

Lost in all this her team sucks! That's the funny part. This has become a hate topic more than anything.

People are superfans for her and they want her to earn everything overnight.

How is the WNBA growing?
- Charter flights for all teams in the regular season and post season (heard theres been some issues at times or to start)
- Viewership is up.
- The players can opt out of current CBA after this year to renegotiate.
- The current rookie class has visibility: Clark, Reece, Cardoso, Cameron Brink etc.

Everything isn't going to happen for the league as a whole 'overnight' or in one season. Caitlin Clark is the start.
- Paige Bueckers is next years top prize potentially
- The new WNBA team in the Bay Area stated they have passed 12,000 season ticket deposits for 2025.

It's up to the WNBA and players to either embrace it or hate it.

Can't wait to see this league develop over the next decade. CC's influence already will be the reason so many young girls pick up a basketball and dream.

Salty players will only be remembered in future CC documentaries.

Bro got an entire vision for Clarke.

[Doctor MJ]

So I can see this thread is contentious. I like the passion, but would urge some emotional distance.

I am going to give my 2 cents here:

I think the debate over whether Clark should have been included is a good one, and depending on your priorities, you'll have different a different answer.

For the record, in terms of making the best team possible, I don't see it as any kind of a given that Clark should have been on the team. Anyone who believe that Clark just isn't quite that good yet, seems totally reasonable that they wouldn't pick Clark for the team.

With that said:

1. Giving a young player a spot even though they haven't proved it professionally is something that Team USA did in the past, so let it be known that if there is no other reason involved here, then apparently there's been a philosophy shift happening between 2016 and now.

2. Taurasi is on the team. I think it's hard to argue that Taurasi is good enough to deserve a place on this team at this advanced age. She's on there because it allows her to be a record 6-timer, and if you're doing that, then you're going based on sentiment, and so sentiment is then part of the reason Clark isn't there. And that's makes things really strange.

It's worth remembering that Taurasi was on the 2004 Olympic team when she was a rookie on a losing team. Taurasi's getting the chance to play in 2024 over Clark because she's eligible to break a record because she got to play in 2004...when she was Clark.

And of course you can say "Whatever, the past is the past, Taurasi's earned this", but when we talk about sentiment, it's worth noting the orientation of that sentiment. Sentiment for Taurasi is about further hyping her based on what she used to be. Sentiment for Clark is about further hyping her based on what she might be. If you're making a decision based on sentiment while trying to grow a sport, in the past the choice has been to focus on the future rather than the past. Yet now, this seems to have reversed.

3. So given that I don't think the explanation for Clark missing the team can be attributed solely to her not being good enough, what explains it? Hard not to think that people are getting nervous about bitterness of WNBA veterans toward the attention Clark is getting.

To be clear: I don't think there was any kind of boycott against Clark that caused her to be left off the team Isiah-style... but I do think the fear of being seen as giving Clark more than she'd earned was in discussion by people associated with Team USA.

[cdubbz]

So I can see this thread is contentious. I like the passion, but would urge some emotional distance.

Yes Jedi Master!

[JustBuzzin]

Read on Twitter

Stephen A Smith came with the straight facts for why Team USA should have had Clark on the roster.

Imagine going to Stephen A for validation.

[azcatz11]

Read on Twitter

?s=46

[cdubbz]

Read on Twitter

Stephen A Smith came with the straight facts for why Team USA should have had Clark on the roster.

Imagine going to Stephen A for validation.

I mean if I agree with him then what’s the deal lol.

I’m not a SAS fan by any means but he made good points about marketing the league.

[BigGargamel]

How is the WNBA growing?
- Charter flights for all teams in the regular season and post season (heard theres been some issues at times or to start)
- Viewership is up.
- The players can opt out of current CBA after this year to renegotiate.
- The current rookie class has visibility: Clark, Reece, Cardoso, Cameron Brink etc.

Everything isn't going to happen for the league as a whole 'overnight' or in one season. Caitlin Clark is the start.
- Paige Bueckers is next years top prize potentially
- The new WNBA team in the Bay Area stated they have passed 12,000 season ticket deposits for 2025.

It's up to the WNBA and players to either embrace it or hate it.

Can't wait to see this league develop over the next decade. CC's influence already will be the reason so many young girls pick up a basketball and dream.

Salty players will only be remembered in future CC documentaries.

Bro got an entire vision for Clarke.

I'm gonna bow out of this thread man. We got people not knowing who the biggest superstar in the WNBA is, what she looks like or what team she plays for (A'Ja Wilson, she's on potato chip bags with Jayson Tatum and LeBron, Vegas is a dynasty). Marketing and the media basically told some of these dudes who to follow and worship, and they're gladly marching along to what they've been told. I mean, a poster literally said he doesn't care about the WNBA, doesn't know who their best player is, and is just all about CC because of marketing and media. I mean, at least he can admit it.

Someone brought up Eminem in this thread, and the comparison makes sense. I'm 44 and have been a hip hop fan since the late 80's. When Eminem came along he converted a ton of suburban white kids who never cared about the music into rap fans. Even 20 years later, you can't tell Eminem fanboys anything. He remains their golden child and can do absolutely no wrong, and any conversation about hip hop that doesn't involve him as an absolute GOAT, they just lose it (ah ah ah ah ah). I see the same thing here. If it's not all CC all the time, they can't think independently. Just gotta shrug your shoulders and move on. That's just the way people are.

[JustBuzzin]

Can't wait to see this league develop over the next decade. CC's influence already will be the reason so many young girls pick up a basketball and dream.

Salty players will only be remembered in future CC documentaries.

Bro got an entire vision for Clarke.

I'm gonna bow out of this thread man. We got people not knowing who the biggest superstar in the WNBA is, what she looks like or what team she plays for (A'Ja Wilson, she's on potato chip bags with Jayson Tatum and LeBron, Vegas is a dynasty). Marketing and the media basically told some of these dudes who to follow and worship, and they're gladly marching along to what they've been told. I mean, a poster literally said he doesn't care about the WNBA, doesn't know who their best player is, and is just all about CC because of marketing and media. I mean, at least he can admit it.

Someone brought up Eminem in this thread, and the comparison makes sense. I'm 44 and have been a hip hop fan since the late 80's. When Eminem came along he converted a ton of suburban white kids who never cared about the music into rap fans. Even 20 years later, you can't tell Eminem fanboys anything. He remains their golden child and can do absolutely no wrong, and any conversation about hip hop that doesn't involve him as an absolute GOAT, they just lose it (ah ah ah ah ah). I see the same thing here. If it's not all CC all the time, they can't think independently. Just gotta shrug your shoulders and move on. That's just the way people are.

The main people saying she's growing the game are the same people who can't even name you 5 WNBA players.

This has become political more than anything.

[Wingy]

The fact that this thread exists and is nearing 300 posts shows that most of you all don't give a crap about the WNBA and it's couple hundred players all of a sudden. You're just a member of the Caitlin Clark cult where it's all her all the time.

There are some that are legit CC fans and are disappointed.

There are some that just don’t get it from the business impact perspective and are kinda baffled there, and I can understand that.

Then there are too many who are the 2nd, but where they’re not just here to express their surprise. They’re here happy to have a chance to take a crap on the WNBA.

I think you (as an old WNBA fan) are trying hard to create artificial CC fans to justify your dislike towards her.

Huh? Why are you replying to me with this?

My “WNBA profile” would read as follows…
-Fan since: 2024
-Favorite player: Caitlin Clark
-Favorite team: I suppose the Indiana Fever, I think I may root a little bit for the Chicago Sky too (Bulls fan, historically I’d read more Sky posts on the RGM Bulls board than watched seconds of Sky basketball)

There are 20-25 posters here criticizing the decision, and I would be very surprised if 2-3 of them are CC fans. Actually, most of us are just basketball fans who don't really like (or haven't tried) watching women's basketball at all, now checking some WNBA games here and there just because of the hype CC generated. You should ask yourself why you are extremely unhappy with the new audience who never watched a WNBA game before.

It sounds like you are describing the same thing I did. Re-read what I wrote. Are you fired up at BigG here?

I wrote “There are some that just don’t get it from the business impact perspective and are kinda baffled there, and I can understand that.”

I think that aligns with the ‘most of us [who] are just basketball fans’ you describe, and as I said, I totally get it. In fact as time wanes, I’m leaning more and more toward thinking that they are right. That she should’ve been included. But yet, from a basketball standpoint, I still maintain it wouldn’t be the right choice and I personally hate the token young player and I’ve always disliked it all the way back to Christian Flippin Laettner. Despite being a Clark fan, end of the day I just have zero issue with the decision and her exclusion. Better players, and former MVPs were snubbed. No one’s targeting poor Caitlin. Her struggles are real. They will get better over time, and all rookies struggle under circumstances that are objectively much tougher than the men’s game.

Do you know I've just purchased 5 tickets to Saturday's Dallas Wings game to go with my gf and her family? This is a consequence of CC's hype - which you are hating on... I'm sorry but as azcat11 just pointed out, it is so evident and does not look good. What's the other way to make WNBA more relevant, considering frequent complaining of its players about the salaries, without new fans? Do you really want to reject new fans and prefer irrelevant, non-profitable, very-cheap-tickets-but-still-empty-arenas organization?

I mean, I can't believe how many times I saw negative mentions of "people who never watched WNBA before CC". Why are you unhappy with people watching WNBA for the first time just because of the hype? Of course people need to start watching somewhere, right? Don't forget, at some point you were also a new WNBA fan while there were old WNBA fans...

I’m not rejecting new fans since, uh…I am a new fan.

I do speak up when people make obvious dumb proclamations when saying things like - “I haven’t watched…but ….this is the way that xyz should be” “I don’t know the players, but…there’s no way that…some bla bla uneducated conclusion.”

I also think it’s a load of crap that so many can’t see or refuse to consider why some of the players are jealous and talk about them with such contempt. You know…great generalizations that all women are just a certain, negative way.

It’s an ugly mirror for some deep and serious issues in our country, and really humanity. Not Caitlin’s fault. Not the veteran players’ fault. It is everyone’s fault who refuses to recognize it though. That puts their head in the sand and refuses to recognize some of the reasons behind the frustrations of many of the current players.

An enormous part of the reason the current players don’t get as much attention as they deserve is because of race. Because of sexual orientation. Because of looks. Abilities and basketball talent alone aren’t marketed in this world. They are largely ignored. Then all of a sudden a white, straight woman shows up who some think is pretty to boot (in b4 some jerk says she’s ugly too. my opinion doesn’t matter here, but I’ll note in general I hate how shallow and asshole-ish people are about other people’s looks) and she is marketed to no end. That’s not to deny her immense talents or hard work, and yes, unique shooting ability.

But is she that far head and shoulders beyond everyone else that she gets the hype and attention she does, and people have never even heard of an A’ja - the best player in the world?

Another example. I had never even heard of her current teammate Kelsey Mitchell…ever…until I looked at the Fever roster due to having the Caitlin pick. Then I found out she was 4th all time in NCAA scoring!!

Caitlin has the figurative key to the entire country. These other great players don’t even exist. People should pause for a moment and truly consider the enormity of that disparity, and why that is.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy the game. You’ll get to see a big Olympic snub in Arike.

Caitlin’s not going to disappear because she’s not on the Olympic team. The long term impact of CC is really going to depend on her become a star in the W, and elevating her team into contention. I’m sure healthy provided that over the years, she’ll get there…and it’ll be really cool seeing her debut on the senior squad on home soil in LA 2028.

Note: Credit to Duck for a lot of these thoughts highlighting the issues at hand.He pointed it out on my “home” board much more succinctly and clearly then I did.

[madskillz8]

Can't wait to see this league develop over the next decade. CC's influence already will be the reason so many young girls pick up a basketball and dream.

Salty players will only be remembered in future CC documentaries.

Bro got an entire vision for Clarke.

I'm gonna bow out of this thread man. We got people not knowing who the biggest superstar in the WNBA is, what she looks like or what team she plays for (A'Ja Wilson, she's on potato chip bags with Jayson Tatum and LeBron, Vegas is a dynasty). Marketing and the media basically told some of these dudes who to follow and worship, and they're gladly marching along to what they've been told. I mean, a poster literally said he doesn't care about the WNBA, doesn't know who their best player is, and is just all about CC because of marketing and media. I mean, at least he can admit it.

Someone brought up Eminem in this thread, and the comparison makes sense. I'm 44 and have been a hip hop fan since the late 80's. When Eminem came along he converted a ton of suburban white kids who never cared about the music into rap fans. Even 20 years later, you can't tell Eminem fanboys anything. He remains their golden child and can do absolutely no wrong, and any conversation about hip hop that doesn't involve him as an absolute GOAT, they just lose it (ah ah ah ah ah). I see the same thing here. If it's not all CC all the time, they can't think independently. Just gotta shrug your shoulders and move on. That's just the way people are.

Hey BigGargamel, next time I'll ask your permission to write about this thread since I won't watch WNBA at all, because I am a mediocre dude who is told by marketing and the media to follow and worship CC, and I'm gladly marching along to what I've been told.

That's all good. But if you check my favorite teams you will see Galatasaray.

Spoiler:

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Spoiler:

Can I criticize Caitlin's snub now? Am I eligible? I am waiting to hear from you like her:

Spoiler:

[KembaWalker]

My only question.

How is the WNBA growing when all the talk is about Clarke?

Best player in the WNBA is A'ja Wilson. Not a single topic has been made about her Nationally.

If you ask me this just feels like a player who should have went and created her own league. The WNBA is not growing it's growing for 1 player. She doesn't even have to be the best player to be the #1 topic.

Lost in all this her team sucks! That's the funny part. This has become a hate topic more than anything.

People are superfans for her and they want her to earn everything overnight.

Despite what you laid out, some people are somehow confused and astounded that jealousy exists.

Like these players and elite-level competitors are supposed to be some super robots that can just cast aside the reality of natural emotion.

The nerve of the veteran players to be human.

These brand new WNBA/Clark fans have the audacity to say with a (I assume) straight face that these veteran players need to roll over and let Clark take over because it would be "good for the league". Like they literally said they should not guard her tough or double team her. How delusional of a take is that?

I've never seen anything like this. Of course there's going to be push back from the veteran players. Imagine getting hired on your job as an intern, working your way up for years just for the CEO's grandson to come in and get all of the money, perks and great parking spot. Of course you're going to hate it. It's called being a human being. It's natural.

Caitlin Clark isn’t a benefactor of nepotism lol, if anything it’s the complete opposite. She’s better than Taurasi right now, who’s bitter washed up geezer self won’t move on but is getting a spot on the roster for some stupid legacy/veteran thing.

[madskillz8]

Huh? Why are you replying to me with this?

Sorry, I wasn't specifically replying to your post at all.

And yes, I am tired of being looked down by old WNBA fans here considering my arguments (missed opportunity) have nothing to with way the game played in WNBA or knowing much about other WNBA stars like A'ja Wilson.

[RickVanExel]

Rebecca Lobo added some context to the issue today. All of the players selected have been apart of the team usa process for the last 3 years. That includes practices and learning the coaches system. It would be unusual to select someone that is out of the loop.

So what you have is the correct basketball choice that happens to be a poor business decision.

For sure.

But Bird and Magic in 92 were no longer 2 of the best 12 players in the world when they were selected for the Dream Team in 92,but the Usa were such overwhelming favorites they were able to realize for the growth of the game internationally picking them over say a data driven based pick of Olajuwon,Rodman, Kevin Johnson etc

[euroleague]

Are you upset because it means you won’t watch and support the women’s team without her on the roster or are you upset because it means that the USA women’s team is weaker and can’t win a metal without Clarke?

We are upset because she deserves to be on it and is exciting to watch. They will win regardless, this move is pure idiocy. It would be like not including Michael Jordan on the olympic team when he was a rookie - he wasn't the best player in the league, but omitting him would've been crazy.

[shrink]

Rebecca Lobo added some context to the issue today. All of the players selected have been apart of the team usa process for the last 3 years. That includes practices and learning the coaches system. It would be unusual to select someone that is out of the loop.

2017 FIBA U16 Women's Americas Championship
2019 FIBA U19 Women's Basketball World Cup
2021 FIBA U19 Women's Basketball World Cup. (At 18, she had 5.6 APG, 5.3 RPG, 14.3 PPG on 16.4 EFF!)

Lobo Swooped us.

[shrink]

It's worth remembering that Taurasi was on the 2004 Olympic team when she was a rookie on a losing team. Taurasi's getting the chance to play in 2024 over Clark because she's eligible to break a record because she got to play in 2004...when she was Clark.

Exactly. And including Taurasi at age 22, and excluding Clark at age 22 means this is going to be a record Taurasi has that doesn’t get broken by Clark, unlike most of Taurasi’s college records.

[durden_tyler]

Stupid decision by USA basketball. She's the only reason why most people would have watched the women's games. LOL