NBA Draft 2024

[Ghost of Kleine]

For everyone talking about JJ…. I really wonder how much JJ is running the show now…. Seems like Josh is Ishbias guy and running things now.

Could be a very different draft this year

About the same as before man! Meaning he's really only a puppet mouthpiece for Ishbia and Isaiah Thomas who are BOTH really calling the shots. But still, he has the responsibilities for trades and the draft, scouting etc, and constructing the framework to return value and clearly, he's done neither over the years. So either he's straight-up a lousy GM, or he's willingly deferring to those two and not professionally protecting his professional image by actually doing the legwork and making the key decisions himself. Neither outcome is really good or acceptable considering the outcome of those results. But there is always a chance for redemption, and hopefully, he'll take his job more seriously and take full accountability for decisions that ARE HIS TO MAKE!

[Crives]

Here’s how my board shaping up for guys potentially available at #22

#1 - Terrence Shannon Jr (assuming he gets cleared next week)
#2 Ware
#3 Holmes
#4 Carrington
#5 Edey

[Saberestar]

22. Phoenix Suns – C Yves Missi – Baylor

Yves Missi, Kyle Filipowski, and Tyler Kolek are the three players that make the most sense for the Phoenix Suns at 22nd overall, if they keep this pick.

Rival executives believe the Suns bringing in Bronny James for a workout recently was more gamesmanship than actual interest in LeBron James' son.

It is expected that the Suns will make Jusuf Nurkic available in trade talks this offseason, which is why Phoenix will need to address their frontcourt. Missi is a vertical center that has the chance to grow into the best rim protector in this draft class.

When you have Devin Booker, Kevin Durant, and Bradley Beal, having a center like Missi who can create second-chance scoring opportunities and clean things up on the interior is advantageous.

https://clutchpoints.com/2024-nba-mock-draft-3-0-donovan-clingan-to-rockets-amid-trade-rumors

[Stix]

Convinced we need a big here:
Ware (if he falls)
Missi

if neither available then pivot to Kolek/Collier.

Spoiler:

None of this matters, we are either trading or taking Bronny.

[lilfishi22]

Ware seems to be a good prospect in the early 20's. Has a budding modern NBA game with his 3PT shooting, interior defense and good size to guard on the switch. Still worried about his effort/focus (just done 5 years of that with DA) but I definitely prefer him over Missi

[Ghost of Kleine]

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A generational defender all over the court!!!

This is why I have Dunn at #1 (big board) at 22 interchangeably with Missi. Really either would be a huge win for us on draft night and elevate our competitive trajectory immensely through locking down opposing teams' abilities to score against us and make runs, while also taking defensive pressure/ energy off of our big three and allowing them to stay fresher and more potent/efficient heading into the 3rd and 4th quarter. Just let Missi or Dunn wear out opposing teams' star players with their relentless non-stop motors/energy and suffocating defensive play. And free up our big three to be even more dominant with full energy and focus on offense. Dunn seriously brings almost all of the most critical key attributes that our team has been missing for multiple seasons now. A relentless energizing non stop frenzied sense of urgency, extreme passion/heart, explosively elite athleticism, never-ending high motor, very high defensive IQ, game-changing defensive plays!

We've all seen how critically impactful high-end defensive playmaking can be in the postseason, first with the Timberwolves who absolutely crushed us with their defense and athleticism! even more so with Boston's defense that is dominating Dallas on their way to a championship! Dunn is the embodiment of these elite attributes that our team lacks, and so is Missi to a slightly lesser degree too. We severely lack the attributes of both of these players and could desperately use their suffocating defensive skillsets to level the playing field against the rest of the league!

If we don't land Dunn or Missi, or ideally both in some creative trades, we'll be regretting it significantly as their elite defensive abilities swing games for other teams that didn't ignorantly pass on them.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Convinced we need a big here:
Ware (if he falls)
Missi

if neither available then pivot to Kolek/Collier.

Spoiler:

None of this matters, we are either trading or taking Bronny.

I really like Ware, and have him as my #2 center right behind Missi only because of his hot/cold motor issues, and finesse style of play, aversion to physicality concerns me a lot. Missi has a relentless frenetic nonstop motor and limitless energy and plays with aggressive physicality too! I'd ultimately be very happy with either at 22 and would consider it an A+ draft night walking away with any of
1- Yves Missi.
2- Ryan Dunn.
3- Kel' el Ware.

And while I also really like Kolek for his passing, cerebral in-game processing, and shooting, he measured in at 6'1-6'2 (in shoes), and I honestly have Ajay Mitchell in the late 30s' or even Zyon Pullin (undrafted range as equitable value with similar stability/ attributes. FWIW, given what the suns have been doing (tipping their hand) with their workouts, etc. I strongly believe they'll do something grotesquely stupid like trading back into the mid-round completely ignoring the extreme value ideal fit of any of the players we both mentioned around 22 and taking a very unathletic, mediocre low-tier player that has a high floor but very low/limited ceiling .

[Ghost of Kleine]

Ware seems to be a good prospect in the early 20's. Has a budding modern NBA game with his 3PT shooting, interior defense and good size to guard on the switch. Still worried about his effort/focus (just done 5 years of that with DA) but I definitely prefer him over Missi

I'm just not sure if using his 3 Pt shooting as a determinate to place him over Missi is really that much of a legitimate argument man given that his shooting is based off of maybe only 1.3 attempts per game. I mean I do like him, and even have him as my #2 on my centerboard for his length, defensive versatility, and mobility/length. And I'd be absolutely fine with either Missi or Ware honestly at 22. But for my part, I give Missi the edge (if even slightly) because Missi plays with a very high NON-STOP MOTOR and also plays with very willing physicality, passion, and an edge too. Also, Missi is already showing the initial abilities to put the ball on the deck and get downhill to the rim and is doing this at only 20 years old while also only playing basketball for maybe three years. And Missi also played soccer which gives him the advantage of advanced footwork which aids in his elite recovery and switchability abilities that allow him to successfully play in any defensive coverage, unlike other centers.

** I'm not as worried about the offensive /shooting aspects because we have three absolutely elite offensive weapons that'll require the ball in high usage. But these defensive specialists are low-usage utility options that won't require the ball much at all as they'll ideally play off of our scoring options supplementarily. And their value will be highly predicated upon their elite abilities to take significant defensive pressure off of our key players/starters. And lastly, there are numerous elite shooting coaches available throughout the league for hire even beyond our elite shooting stars who can also help coach/mentor those defense-oriented prospects. What we need most now is proper balance throughout our roster to provide the versatility to play more dynamically in various ways as opposed to being more one-dimensional.

[Stix]

This is kind of fun...
https://fanspo.com/nba/mock-draft-simulator

I just ran a mock draft sim, ended up picking Ware at 22, but did have Kolek and Dunn on board too.

Toronto picked Missi. Kolek went to NYK. Dunn went to WASH.

Edit: Just ran again with ESPN rankings and was able to get Missi

[lilfishi22]

Ware seems to be a good prospect in the early 20's. Has a budding modern NBA game with his 3PT shooting, interior defense and good size to guard on the switch. Still worried about his effort/focus (just done 5 years of that with DA) but I definitely prefer him over Missi

I'm just not sure if using his 3 Pt shooting as a determinate to place him over Missi is really that much of a legitimate argument man given that his shooting is based off of maybe only 1.3 attempts per game. I mean I do like him, and even have him as my #2 on my centerboard for his length, defensive versatility, and mobility/length. And I'd be absolutely fine with either Missi or Ware honestly at 22. But for my part, I give Missi the edge (if even slightly) because Missi plays with a very high NON-STOP MOTOR and also plays with very willing physicality, passion, and an edge too. Also, Missi is already showing the initial abilities to put the ball on the deck and get downhill to the rim and is doing this at only 20 years old while also only playing basketball for maybe three years. And Missi also played soccer which gives him the advantage of advanced footwork which aids in his elite recovery and switchability abilities that allow him to successfully play in any defensive coverage, unlike other centers.

** I'm not as worried about the offensive /shooting aspects because we have three absolutely elite offensive weapons that'll require the ball in high usage. But these defensive specialists are low-usage utility options that won't require the ball much at all as they'll ideally play off of our scoring options supplementarily. And their value will be highly predicated upon their elite abilities to take significant defensive pressure off of our key players/starters. And lastly, there are numerous elite shooting coaches available throughout the league for hire even beyond our elite shooting stars who can also help coach/mentor those defense-oriented prospects. What we need most now is proper balance throughout our roster to provide the versatility to play more dynamically in various ways as opposed to being more one-dimensional.

The 3PT shooting is on low volume sure and it may not translate in the NBA (ie DA with his 1.1 3PA in college) but I like that he's been shooting them in both his freshmen and soph seasons. I also think he's got a solid stroke from range as well. I was never that high on Yves and mainly because I think his skillset is relatively lean. While I do like his motor and being that interior presence, he's also extremely foul prone. I remember looking at their stats a few weeks ago and thinking, you're getting quite a lot of Missi in those 20ish mpg compared to Ware in his 30ish mpg but when you dig in a layer deeper, you see how often he's in foul trouble then I look at the scouting and there's concern about his conditioning as well. That kinda tells me the guy is just super raw.

Being raw isn't the end all and be all. Yves could improve as the season rolls on but players who foul a lot in college, tend to bring the same proneness to fouling to the NBA and it's a real concern. At the end of the day, I just think Ware has a better set of skills, is probably more ready to contribute and imo someone with his profile is harder to find. Also interesting to note, Ware has better lane agility, shuttle run and standing vert numbers than Missi, who does have the better max vert at 38in. But Ware is also a bit taller, measurably longer wingspan and standing reach.

Ultimately, it may not matter because there's a better chance of Ware being gone vs Missi by the time it comes to our turn to pick

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

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A generational defender all over the court!!!

This is why I have Dunn at #1 (big board) at 22 interchangeably with Missi. Really either would be a huge win for us on draft night and elevate our competitive trajectory immensely through locking down opposing teams' abilities to score against us and make runs, while also taking defensive pressure/ energy off of our big three and allowing them to stay fresher and more potent/efficient heading into the 3rd and 4th quarter. Just let Missi or Dunn wear out opposing teams' star players with their relentless non-stop motors/energy and suffocating defensive play. And free up our big three to be even more dominant with full energy and focus on offense. Dunn seriously brings almost all of the most critical key attributes that our team has been missing for multiple seasons now. A relentless energizing non stop frenzied sense of urgency, extreme passion/heart, explosively elite athleticism, never-ending high motor, very high defensive IQ, game-changing defensive plays!

We've all seen how critically impactful high-end defensive playmaking can be in the postseason, first with the Timberwolves who absolutely crushed us with their defense and athleticism! even more so with Boston's defense that is dominating Dallas on their way to a championship! Dunn is the embodiment of these elite attributes that our team lacks, and so is Missi to a slightly lesser degree too. We severely lack the attributes of both of these players and could desperately use their suffocating defensive skillsets to level the playing field against the rest of the league!

If we don't land Dunn or Missi, or ideally both in some creative trades, we'll be regretting it significantly as their elite defensive abilities swing games for other teams that didn't ignorantly pass on them.

I am interested in Dunn...but he will be better than Okogie?

Okogie is a terrific defender. The guy is extremely good on defense but he is unplayable because of his lack of offense.

I am afraid of that with Dunn.

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

A generational defender all over the court!!!

This is why I have Dunn at #1 (big board) at 22 interchangeably with Missi. Really either would be a huge win for us on draft night and elevate our competitive trajectory immensely through locking down opposing teams' abilities to score against us and make runs, while also taking defensive pressure/ energy off of our big three and allowing them to stay fresher and more potent/efficient heading into the 3rd and 4th quarter. Just let Missi or Dunn wear out opposing teams' star players with their relentless non-stop motors/energy and suffocating defensive play. And free up our big three to be even more dominant with full energy and focus on offense. Dunn seriously brings almost all of the most critical key attributes that our team has been missing for multiple seasons now. A relentless energizing non stop frenzied sense of urgency, extreme passion/heart, explosively elite athleticism, never-ending high motor, very high defensive IQ, game-changing defensive plays!

We've all seen how critically impactful high-end defensive playmaking can be in the postseason, first with the Timberwolves who absolutely crushed us with their defense and athleticism! even more so with Boston's defense that is dominating Dallas on their way to a championship! Dunn is the embodiment of these elite attributes that our team lacks, and so is Missi to a slightly lesser degree too. We severely lack the attributes of both of these players and could desperately use their suffocating defensive skillsets to level the playing field against the rest of the league!

If we don't land Dunn or Missi, or ideally both in some creative trades, we'll be regretting it significantly as their elite defensive abilities swing games for other teams that didn't ignorantly pass on them.

I am interested in Dunn...but he will be better than Okogie?

Okogie is a terrific defender. The guy is extremely good on defense but he is unplayable because of his lack of offense.

I am afraid of that with Dunn.

Always a bit hard to know. Okogie was actually a decent 3PT shooter in college (38% on 4 attempts a game) and shot FT well but it just never translated at the NBA level. Funnily enough, Okogie's overall FG% was pretty bad in college (42%). Dunn, on the other hand, has never shot well and is an appalling FT shooter which doesn't bode well.

As I had responded to Ghost before regarding Missi, I just don't find unskilled but high motor guys particularly interesting. But that's just my personal feeling

[Ghost of Kleine]

Ware seems to be a good prospect in the early 20's. Has a budding modern NBA game with his 3PT shooting, interior defense and good size to guard on the switch. Still worried about his effort/focus (just done 5 years of that with DA) but I definitely prefer him over Missi

I'm just not sure if using his 3 Pt shooting as a determinate to place him over Missi is really that much of a legitimate argument man given that his shooting is based off of maybe only 1.3 attempts per game. I mean I do like him, and even have him as my #2 on my centerboard for his length, defensive versatility, and mobility/length. And I'd be absolutely fine with either Missi or Ware honestly at 22. But for my part, I give Missi the edge (if even slightly) because Missi plays with a very high NON-STOP MOTOR and also plays with very willing physicality, passion, and an edge too. Also, Missi is already showing the initial abilities to put the ball on the deck and get downhill to the rim and is doing this at only 20 years old while also only playing basketball for maybe three years. And Missi also played soccer which gives him the advantage of advanced footwork which aids in his elite recovery and switchability abilities that allow him to successfully play in any defensive coverage, unlike other centers.

** I'm not as worried about the offensive /shooting aspects because we have three absolutely elite offensive weapons that'll require the ball in high usage. But these defensive specialists are low-usage utility options that won't require the ball much at all as they'll ideally play off of our scoring options supplementarily. And their value will be highly predicated upon their elite abilities to take significant defensive pressure off of our key players/starters. And lastly, there are numerous elite shooting coaches available throughout the league for hire even beyond our elite shooting stars who can also help coach/mentor those defense-oriented prospects. What we need most now is proper balance throughout our roster to provide the versatility to play more dynamically in various ways as opposed to being more one-dimensional.

The 3PT shooting is on low volume sure and it may not translate in the NBA (ie DA with his 1.1 3PA in college) but I like that he's been shooting them in both his freshmen and soph seasons. I also think he's got a solid stroke from range as well. I was never that high on Yves and mainly because I think his skillset is relatively lean. While I do like his motor and being that interior presence, he's also extremely foul prone. I remember looking at their stats a few weeks ago and thinking, you're getting quite a lot of Missi in those 20ish mpg compared to Ware in his 30ish mpg but when you dig in a layer deeper, you see how often he's in foul trouble then I look at the scouting and there's concern about his conditioning as well. That kinda tells me the guy is just super raw.


Being raw isn't the end all and be all. Yves could improve as the season rolls on but players who foul a lot in college, tend to bring the same proneness to fouling to the NBA and it's a real concern. At the end of the day, I just think Ware has a better set of skills, is probably more ready to contribute and imo someone with his profile is harder to find. Also interesting to note, Ware has better lane agility, shuttle run and standing vert numbers than Missi, who does have the better max vert at 38in. But Ware is also a bit taller, measurably longer wingspan and standing reach.

Ultimately, it may not matter because there's a better chance of Ware being gone vs Missi by the time it comes to our turn to pick

I get that Ware is obviously further along in his skillset development, but it's also important to take into consideration that Missi again is so raw BECAUSE he's only been playing basketball for maybe 3 years in comparison to Wares' basketball career starting as early as 14 years old. So given that he's been playing for at least twice as long as Missi, maybe longer, I'd be more shocked if he wasn't further along than Missi in terms of overall development arch. But even so, it's fairly clear when watching the game tape that Missi has already been showing elements of putting the ball on the floor and getting to the rim. He's also already showing elements of spin moves, in & out dribble drive, reverse pivot, drop cross, shielding the ball, low crossover, elongated strides, etc which is very encouraging nevertheless. To illustrate what I'm talking about:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7z0UylSb2W/?utm_source=ig_web_button_native_share

In the end, to some degree, both will be long-term development prospects to anyways, so it's not like you're going into this draft expecting a finished product from the jump. I also get that he's more foul-prone, but even still, that can be attributed simply to the fact that in comparison to Ware, Missi plays with more energy, tenacity, and physicality than Ware does as more of a finesse physicality-averse player. But in looking at the current direction the league is trending in, Missis' style of play will fit better than Wares' with the level of promoted physicality and high motor play. AND Missis' PER 36 fouls of 3.7 to Wares' 2.3 is not some massive disparity, nor is it really concerning enough either when you consider the 6 fouls needed to foul out in the NBA. Unless you anticipate him playing over 40 minutes right away. Young players often play a bit more wreckless coming into the league, but in time settle down a bit once they adjust more to the overall speed of the game. So again, I'm not overly concerned here.

I agree that Ware simply has a better set of skills to date. And perhaps, depending upon the role you're expecting from either, War might be more ready to contribute by some small measure. However, Ware's aversion to physicality (as a center) as well as his motor issues/ inconsistencies may affect his overall impact in comparison to Missi who doesn't carry those concerns. And it's cool that Ware has slightly better measurables and combine metrics, they each have their own strengths and areas to improve upon of course, for instance, Missi has better blocks, steals, TS%, FG%, FT rate, OFWS/40, WS/40, ORTG, equal DWS/40. But overall it doesn't matter because both are really good to potentially elite defenders/ rim protectors that we could desperately use. Although it's somewhat funny you'd think Ware would be off the board before Missi considering that the consensus has Missi going around #16 and Ware not going until #22 6 picks later. Why would you suppose the consensus has Missi ranked 6 spots higher than Ware is man?

[Saberestar]

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A generational defender all over the court!!!

This is why I have Dunn at #1 (big board) at 22 interchangeably with Missi. Really either would be a huge win for us on draft night and elevate our competitive trajectory immensely through locking down opposing teams' abilities to score against us and make runs, while also taking defensive pressure/ energy off of our big three and allowing them to stay fresher and more potent/efficient heading into the 3rd and 4th quarter. Just let Missi or Dunn wear out opposing teams' star players with their relentless non-stop motors/energy and suffocating defensive play. And free up our big three to be even more dominant with full energy and focus on offense. Dunn seriously brings almost all of the most critical key attributes that our team has been missing for multiple seasons now. A relentless energizing non stop frenzied sense of urgency, extreme passion/heart, explosively elite athleticism, never-ending high motor, very high defensive IQ, game-changing defensive plays!

We've all seen how critically impactful high-end defensive playmaking can be in the postseason, first with the Timberwolves who absolutely crushed us with their defense and athleticism! even more so with Boston's defense that is dominating Dallas on their way to a championship! Dunn is the embodiment of these elite attributes that our team lacks, and so is Missi to a slightly lesser degree too. We severely lack the attributes of both of these players and could desperately use their suffocating defensive skillsets to level the playing field against the rest of the league!

If we don't land Dunn or Missi, or ideally both in some creative trades, we'll be regretting it significantly as their elite defensive abilities swing games for other teams that didn't ignorantly pass on them.

I am interested in Dunn...but he will be better than Okogie?

Okogie is a terrific defender. The guy is extremely good on defense but he is unplayable because of his lack of offense.

I am afraid of that with Dunn.

Always a bit hard to know. Okogie was actually a decent 3PT shooter in college (38% on 4 attempts a game) and shot FT well but it just never translated at the NBA level. Funnily enough, Okogie's overall FG% was pretty bad in college (42%). Dunn, on the other hand, has never shot well and is an appalling FT shooter which doesn't bode well.

As I had responded to Ghost before regarding Missi, I just don't find unskilled but high motor guys particularly interesting. But that's just my personal feeling

Yeah, Dunn's FT percentages are terrible and that's a big red flag because usually players that shoot bad from the 3p line AND FTs almost never develop a good shot in the NBA.

He is 6,6.25" without shoes, so I can't imagine him as a full time PF or smallball 5 in the NBA.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

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A generational defender all over the court!!!

This is why I have Dunn at #1 (big board) at 22 interchangeably with Missi. Really either would be a huge win for us on draft night and elevate our competitive trajectory immensely through locking down opposing teams' abilities to score against us and make runs, while also taking defensive pressure/ energy off of our big three and allowing them to stay fresher and more potent/efficient heading into the 3rd and 4th quarter. Just let Missi or Dunn wear out opposing teams' star players with their relentless non-stop motors/energy and suffocating defensive play. And free up our big three to be even more dominant with full energy and focus on offense. Dunn seriously brings almost all of the most critical key attributes that our team has been missing for multiple seasons now. A relentless energizing non stop frenzied sense of urgency, extreme passion/heart, explosively elite athleticism, never-ending high motor, very high defensive IQ, game-changing defensive plays!

We've all seen how critically impactful high-end defensive playmaking can be in the postseason, first with the Timberwolves who absolutely crushed us with their defense and athleticism! even more so with Boston's defense that is dominating Dallas on their way to a championship! Dunn is the embodiment of these elite attributes that our team lacks, and so is Missi to a slightly lesser degree too. We severely lack the attributes of both of these players and could desperately use their suffocating defensive skillsets to level the playing field against the rest of the league!

If we don't land Dunn or Missi, or ideally both in some creative trades, we'll be regretting it significantly as their elite defensive abilities swing games for other teams that didn't ignorantly pass on them.

I am interested in Dunn...but he will be better than Okogie?

Okogie is a terrific defender. The guy is extremely good on defense but he is unplayable because of his lack of offense.

I am afraid of that with Dunn.

Well first, Dunn is widely considered the best defender in all of college basketball by many, and also a generational defender. I can understand the concerns or apprehension over his lack of offensive two-way ability, and a lot of how people prospectively value prospects will be an "eye of the beholder" situation. But I personally think it can be attributed largely to his being an unselfish utility contributor who puts his teams' interests and winning above his personal successes. This is the role he embodies consistently in his role. HOWEVER, if you watch carefully his game tape and his shooting mechanics, form, etc, it's not at horribly ugly or completely broken, making you think he can't become a better shooter in a more expanded role and with proper development and reps/ slight adjustments. Currently, he just plays the role that gives his team the best opportunity to win. But to illustrate what I'm saying with Dunns' shooting mechanics/form, just check out these clips to see what I'm referring to:

Ryan Dunns' shooting form/ mechanics
(2-minute video). Hits some threes cleanly.

https://youtu.be/97tklFc1XH0?t=54
(54 seconds in).

https://youtu.be/yZqEk3XQU78?t=422
(7:02, 7:08, 7:35, 7:40, 7:46, 7:50, 7:53, 8:01).

Ryan Dunns' ELITE GENERATIONAL DEFENSE
https://youtube.com/shorts/8qTTf0DBUzI?si=IeukhnvzRO0eNq9X

https://youtube.com/shorts/tiWxXpQvklk?si=_qPiupZeVPpbeUlh

Ovrall to be successful in the NBA, you need a "bankable" or translatable skill that impacts games. Dunn already has that in his ELITE lockdown defensive abilities, ELITE athleticism, ELITE defensive IQ, ELITE quick twitch recovery and anticipation, ELITE slashing/cutting abilities, and Elite motor/ heart/passion. His shooting does have a long way to go, but even from the jump, Dunn can offer game-changing defense, a non-stop electric style of energizing play, and relentless competitive play. And what better environment to develop his shooting than possibly being mentored by three ELITE HOF-level scorers/shooters and also having a billionaire owner who can spend to hire the best shooting coaches available too?

Not at all bad for a late first selection in a relatively shallow draft. Pulling a 1st team all-defensive potential jumbo wing would be a clear win for us.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I am interested in Dunn...but he will be better than Okogie?

Okogie is a terrific defender. The guy is extremely good on defense but he is unplayable because of his lack of offense.

I am afraid of that with Dunn.

Always a bit hard to know. Okogie was actually a decent 3PT shooter in college (38% on 4 attempts a game) and shot FT well but it just never translated at the NBA level. Funnily enough, Okogie's overall FG% was pretty bad in college (42%). Dunn, on the other hand, has never shot well and is an appalling FT shooter which doesn't bode well.

As I had responded to Ghost before regarding Missi, I just don't find unskilled but high motor guys particularly interesting. But that's just my personal feeling

Yeah, Dunn's FT percentages are terrible and that's a big red flag because usually players that shoot bad from the 3p line AND FTs almost never develop a good shot in the NBA.

He is 6,6.25" without shoes, so I can't imagine him as a full time PF or smallball 5 in the NBA.

Well, players don't play games barefoot now do they...lol so in shoes, might as well add an inch or two since all players wear shoes in the NBA ........ right. And honestly, who needs to imagine him as a full time 4 or even a small ball 5 man? His role is and should be as an elite wing stopper because he's close to 6'8 (in shoes) and is a jumbo wing with ELITE athleticism and a 7'2 wingspan at 6/7-6'8. A defensive SF would be his role because there's plenty of actual big 4s and 4/5s available too in the draft as well as free agency. It'd be idiotic to try and go small positionally again after how Minnesota and other bigger and more athletic teams dominated us. We just need to let him play his proper role as a lockdown perimeter wing/forward at the 3, and he'll excel there in that capacity just fine.

I believe he'll develop a reliable shot because of his intense work ethic and high IQ, but to each their own on how they view him I suppose.

[Saberestar]

Always a bit hard to know. Okogie was actually a decent 3PT shooter in college (38% on 4 attempts a game) and shot FT well but it just never translated at the NBA level. Funnily enough, Okogie's overall FG% was pretty bad in college (42%). Dunn, on the other hand, has never shot well and is an appalling FT shooter which doesn't bode well.

As I had responded to Ghost before regarding Missi, I just don't find unskilled but high motor guys particularly interesting. But that's just my personal feeling

Yeah, Dunn's FT percentages are terrible and that's a big red flag because usually players that shoot bad from the 3p line AND FTs almost never develop a good shot in the NBA.

He is 6,6.25" without shoes, so I can't imagine him as a full time PF or smallball 5 in the NBA.

Well, players don't play games barefoot now do they...lol so in shoes, might as well add an inch or two since all players wear shoes in the NBA ........ right. And honestly, who needs to imagine him as a full time 4 or even a small ball 5 man? His role is and should be as an elite wing stopper because he's close to 6'8 (in shoes) and is a jumbo wing with ELITE athleticism and a 7'2 wingspan at 6/7-6'8. A defensive SF would be his role because there's plenty of actual big 4s and 4/5s available too in the draft as well as free agency. It'd be idiotic to try and go small positionally again after how Minnesota and other bigger and more athletic teams dominated us. We just need to let him play his proper role as a lockdown perimeter wing/forward at the 3, and he'll excel there in that capacity just fine.

I believe he'll develop a reliable shot because of his intense work ethic and high IQ, but to each their own on how they view him I suppose.

Truly information is really important when drafting an unknown and young player.

Some players/teams put their true height (barefoot) and some other players/teams put his height+shoes. It's important to know exactly how tall a player actually is because this is basketball not soccer lol.

Some players (or their agents) try to cheat with his actual height for obvious reasons and measuring them without shoes is the most effective way to avoid that.

At 6'7 with shoes (he doesn't wear heels) he is gonna have a tough time playing near the rim, and he will need to play next to the rim because he can't shoot at all.

His shooting form doesn't look bad but that's not a positive factor because that means that probably is a mental thing or some other aspect more difficult to correct than just the shooting release.

His numbers at the FT line are horrible:

50% as a freshman.
53% as a sophomore.

WOW. Those are Ben Wallace's numbers and we are talking about a perimeter player.

And what about his 3p shooting?

31% on 0.5 attemps in his first season.
20% on 1 attempt in his second season.

Can you give me an example of a perimeter player shooting that extremely bad in college and then being a solid player in the NBA?

Like I said I am interested in him because of his defense, intensity and athleticism BUT his absolute lack of shooting scares me a lot.

[sunsbg]

Really small chance of whoever we draft becoming a playoffs contributor like Lively did for the Mavs. Dunn sounds more like their other rookie drafted with 20+ pick for wing defender potential, who spent all season in G League. At least Suns now have a G league team though it's still most likely they trade the pick.

[Stix]

To chime in on Missi vs. Ware, I think Ware is a better fit overall for us. Basically he is Brook Lopez coming out of college. Sure, he has a long way to go before he reaches Brook's level as it took him years to develop his skillset. But under Coach Bud, if we can get a Brook Lopez-Lite from Ware on a rookie contract for 4 years, how could you not?

I think Missi has more potential though. But like JJ said, we aren't thinking 2031 and Missi will take a long time to develop. Can you imagine running out a line-up with Missi/Bol? YIKES

As for Dunn, I don't think he is on our radar for the simple fact that he can't shoot. But the idea of a bigger/longer Josh Okogie is intriguing.

Personally, I am sold on Ware. If not then I prefer taking a chance on a small school south paw Kolek.

[King4Day]

ESPN's latest mock draft:

22. Phoenix Suns

Givony's pick that fills the biggest need: Tyler Kolek | Marquette | PG | Age: 23.2

The Suns didn't have a legit point guard last season, a decision that seemed to backfire as they were swept in the first round of the playoffs. Kolek, 23, is more battle-tested than most draft prospects, bringing elite toughness, feel for the game and playmaking acumen operating out of pick-and-rolls. Kolek, ranked No. 26 in ESPN's Top 100, has shown he can play off the ball as well, making 39% of his 3-pointers the past two seasons, which is important considering the high-usage star power already on the roster in Kevin Durant, Devin Booker and Bradley Beal.

Woo's pick that gets the best value: George

George has many of the fundamental elements you want in a perimeter player -- he is a good passer and shooter with excellent size for a guard -- but he is going to have to successfully adjust to the speed and physicality of the NBA, which will take some time. There are safer bets on the board in the top 20, but after a certain point, I love the idea of what George can become.