Kings Pels (who adds)

[HornetJail]

Not that this would ever happen.

But in a vacuum, Pels add Herb, Daniel’s and the Lakers ‘25 pick and their own unprotected pick.

Let’s get this straight without personal ideas here. Any player that is top ten on the MVP ladder sees a haul like this. That’s just how it’s been going.

Hate to burst you or any Kings fans bubble, but if and when the Kings decide to trade Sabonis we aren't getting a package that looks like this. At least I would be very surprised if we do

I think you would, but it wouldn't be from the Pelicans

[Whole Truth]

Sabonis and Zion work IMO. Sabonis is able to play with a guy who wants to go the rim.

Kings would need more. Herb.

Fox/BI/Murray/Herb/defensive center

NO's value Herb after Zion, he's close to untouchable in trade for more reasons than just player value. Due to his low usage & role his value in trade is not what it should be. NO's would be selling very low to what Herb actually provides.

Ask any NO's fan, they will all tell you Herb is the player of the 2 mentioned everyone would keep. He's not getting traded short of getting a corner stone back in that trade. He's the teams defensive backbone & is shooting 40% on good volume. He's not & never will be, a throw in to trade as far as NO's are concerned.

Not asking for him as a throw-in. Valuing him about equal to two firsts. NO is getting a corner stone piece back.

Herb is a corner stone in NO's, they named a day after him.

[ADMVP]

Not that this would ever happen.

But in a vacuum, Pels add Herb, Daniel’s and the Lakers ‘25 pick and their own unprotected pick.

Let’s get this straight without personal ideas here. Any player that is top ten on the MVP ladder sees a haul like this. That’s just how it’s been going.

I don't value Sabonis this much over BI. Especially considering the fit with Zion.

So where is BI on that ladder?

And how many games a year does he average again?

Personally I have zero interest in him in any scenario. I value guys who can play and who aren’t faux “stars” with forever potential that isn’t realized. He is not a guy who can carry our team or make everyone else better.

How do you think we view Sabonis? He hasn't done anything in his career.

[SNPA]

NO's value Herb after Zion, he's close to untouchable in trade for more reasons than just player value. Due to his low usage & role his value in trade is not what it should be. NO's would be selling very low to what Herb actually provides.

Ask any NO's fan, they will all tell you Herb is the player of the 2 mentioned everyone would keep. He's not getting traded short of getting a corner stone back in that trade. He's the teams defensive backbone & is shooting 40% on good volume. He's not & never will be, a throw in to trade as far as NO's are concerned.

Not asking for him as a throw-in. Valuing him about equal to two firsts. NO is getting a corner stone piece back.

Herb is a corner stone in NO's, they named a day after him.

Cool.

Sabonis is an All NBA player who leads the league in rebounds, triple doubles, double doubles, screen assists and is a top tier assists guy too (6th in the whole league).

But, no day named after him so…



NO fans responses are like they aren’t getting the best player in this deal.

[ConSarnit]

Not asking for him as a throw-in. Valuing him about equal to two firsts. NO is getting a corner stone piece back.

Herb is a corner stone in NO's, they named a day after him.

Cool.

Sabonis is an All NBA player who leads the league in rebounds, triple doubles, double doubles, screen assists and is a top tier assists guy too (6th in the whole league).

But, no day named after him so…



NO fans responses are like they aren’t getting the best player in this deal.

It’s just not a good fit though. I don’t know why people are saying they think it would work. Would the team be decent? Sure. Would they be contenders? No. Why make trades that make the life of both guys harder? Who is the ideal C to pair with Zion? A floor spacer who protects the rim. The opposite of Sabonis. Who is the ideal PF to pair with Sabonis? A floor spacer to can protect the rim. The opposite of Zion. I get that Sabonis is maybe an upgrade to Ingram talent wise but I don’t think it moves the needle for New Orleans ceiling.

Why make a trade that is going to marginalize the talents of both Zion and Sabonis?

[Whole Truth]

Not asking for him as a throw-in. Valuing him about equal to two firsts. NO is getting a corner stone piece back.

Herb is a corner stone in NO's, they named a day after him.

Cool.

Sabonis is an All NBA player who leads the league in rebounds, triple doubles, double doubles, screen assists and is a top tier assists guy too (6th in the whole league).

But, no day named after him so…



NO fans responses are like they aren’t getting the best player in this deal.

lol,

My point was simple, value is not solely #'s.

Zero interest in Sabonis fit for NO's, especially for Herb.

Herb is only putting up 12ppg on 7 APG 14% usage because he plays with 4 offensive players that each can put up 20-30 on any given night, where offensive overlap was an issue. Put Herb on a non PO team, give him 18 APG, 25% usage like Murray & I'd put money he'd be considered in Bridges tier of value. He's going nowhere short of helping land a difference maker & that's not Sabonis for NO's.

Production might say otherwise because of usage but in terms of impact. I have the player that carried 4 offensive players to a top 6 defense while shooting 40% from 3, as pretty valuable to NO's.

[Whole Truth]

Herb is a corner stone in NO's, they named a day after him.

Cool.

Sabonis is an All NBA player who leads the league in rebounds, triple doubles, double doubles, screen assists and is a top tier assists guy too (6th in the whole league).

But, no day named after him so…



NO fans responses are like they aren’t getting the best player in this deal.

It’s just not a good fit though. I don’t know why people are saying they think it would work. Would the team be decent? Sure. Would they be contenders? No. Why make trades that make the life of both guys harder? Who is the ideal C to pair with Zion? A floor spacer who protects the rim. The opposite of Sabonis. Who is the ideal PF to pair with Sabonis? A floor spacer to can protect the rim. The opposite of Zion. I get that Sabonis is maybe an upgrade to Ingram talent wise but I don’t think it moves the needle for New Orleans ceiling.

Why make a trade that is going to marginalize the talents of both Zion and Sabonis?

Herb carried NO's defense. You trade Herb out for Sabonis & the defense would be non existent unless Daniels takes an offensive leap to make him a viable starter.

He missed the point of my post. None was saying Sabonis doesn't have value, just not for NO's, especially for Herb. What NO's would gain offensively they will lose twice fold defensively.

[SNPA]

Sabonis can play with Zion. He does not just stand under the basket. He plays on the perimeter as a hub and crashes the boards. Between his offensive orchestration from the elbow extended and Zion’s downhill drive and kick game all you’d need is 3&D players (Murphy) and it works. Other teams either load up in the paint to try unsuccessfully to stop
Ziom/Sabonis from dominating but give up wide open threes or they try to play it straight up and get toasted. NO would be an interior beast. Winning the paint nightly, just make shots and it works.

FYI - a defensive rebound is the best way to stop an offensive possession besides a live ball steal. Sabonis is the best at that. He anchored a Kings defense that was quite good the second half of the season. Check the numbers.

[Whole Truth]

Sabonis can play with Zion. He does not just stand under the basket. He plays on the perimeter as a hub and crashes the boards. Between his offensive orchestration from the elbow extended and Zion’s downhill drive and kick game all you’d need is 3&D players (Murphy) and it works. Other teams either load up in the paint to try unsuccessfully to stop
Ziom/Sabonis from dominating but give up wide open threes or they try to play it straight up and get toasted. NO would be an interior beast. Winning the paint nightly, just make shots and it works.

FYI - a defensive rebound is the best way to stop an offensive possession besides a live ball steal. Sabonis is the best at that. He anchored a Kings dense that was quite good the second half of the season. Check the numbers.

I agree about your point about closing possession on defense.

I think efficiency & rebounding are big factors on a defense as Jonas has started on 3 separate teams that have made top 5 in defense, while not being a good individual defender.

Jonas > Sabonis as a defensive rebounder & they let his 15/10 on 15m value contract walk to get better defensively at the position.

[SNPA]

Sabonis can play with Zion. He does not just stand under the basket. He plays on the perimeter as a hub and crashes the boards. Between his offensive orchestration from the elbow extended and Zion’s downhill drive and kick game all you’d need is 3&D players (Murphy) and it works. Other teams either load up in the paint to try unsuccessfully to stop
Ziom/Sabonis from dominating but give up wide open threes or they try to play it straight up and get toasted. NO would be an interior beast. Winning the paint nightly, just make shots and it works.

FYI - a defensive rebound is the best way to stop an offensive possession besides a live ball steal. Sabonis is the best at that. He anchored a Kings dense that was quite good the second half of the season. Check the numbers.

I agree about your point about closing possession on defense.

I think efficiency & rebounding are big factors on a defense as Jonas has started on 3 separate teams that have made top 5 in defense, while not being a good individual defender.

Jonas > Sabonis as a defensive rebounder & they let his 15/10 on 15m value contract walk to get better defensively at the position.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defensive-rebounding?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=D&sort=DREB

Also…Sabonis moves his feet light years better. He is a better overall defensive player at this point.

[Whole Truth]

Sabonis can play with Zion. He does not just stand under the basket. He plays on the perimeter as a hub and crashes the boards. Between his offensive orchestration from the elbow extended and Zion’s downhill drive and kick game all you’d need is 3&D players (Murphy) and it works. Other teams either load up in the paint to try unsuccessfully to stop
Ziom/Sabonis from dominating but give up wide open threes or they try to play it straight up and get toasted. NO would be an interior beast. Winning the paint nightly, just make shots and it works.

FYI - a defensive rebound is the best way to stop an offensive possession besides a live ball steal. Sabonis is the best at that. He anchored a Kings dense that was quite good the second half of the season. Check the numbers.

I agree about your point about closing possession on defense.

I think efficiency & rebounding are big factors on a defense as Jonas has started on 3 separate teams that have made top 5 in defense, while not being a good individual defender.

Jonas > Sabonis as a defensive rebounder & they let his 15/10 on 15m value contract walk to get better defensively at the position.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defensive-rebounding?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=D&sort=DREB

Also…Sabonis moves his feet light years better. He is a better overall defensive player at this point.

Sabonis averages 36 minutes a game, Jonas 25. I'm not claiming Sabonis can't rebound, I'm saying Jonas, minute for minute, is better if you want to contend that opinion, fine they're both effective closing possession.

Fact is they let Jonas efficiency & rebounding walk because Green wants to switch defend. If Sabonis can effectively do that, then I withdraw my contention of his potential fit. Still wouldn't trade Herb to find out.

[tbhawksfan1]

Pel's fans are trying so hard to get a good BI deal but it ain't happening

[Whole Truth]

Pel's fans are trying so hard to get a good BI deal but it ain't happening

IMO Pelicans are better off keeping BI & trading CJ. Regardless of their respective trade markets.

CJ is the reason Jonas was let go & he will be the reason BI will be seen & traded as a poor fit.

Book mark the thread. The team that trades for BI will get a better player than the one seen in NO's.

[tbhawksfan1]

Pel's fans are trying so hard to get a good BI deal but it ain't happening

IMO Pelicans are better off keeping BI & trading CJ. Regardless of their respective trade markets.

CJ is the reason Jonas was let go & he will be the reason BI will be seen & traded as a poor fit.

Book mark the thread. The team that trades for BI will get a better player than the one seen in NO's.

He's averaging less than 60 games a season over his last 7 seasons and want to get paid the max. You will not get much value in a BI trade

[Whole Truth]

Pel's fans are trying so hard to get a good BI deal but it ain't happening

IMO Pelicans are better off keeping BI & trading CJ. Regardless of their respective trade markets.

CJ is the reason Jonas was let go & he will be the reason BI will be seen & traded as a poor fit.

Book mark the thread. The team that trades for BI will get a better player than the one seen in NO's.

He's averaging less than 60 games a season over his last 7 seasons and want to get paid the max. You will not get much value in a BI trade

Fair assessment & opinion, most large contracts come with financial risk known & unknown. As far as I'm concerned. I think all NO's have to really to do is open cap space by trading CJ & extend BI, they will ultimately save on their dead/risky money. Move Murphy in over CJ who's also not a PG but playing a role instead of BI. Turn to point Zion as they have been wanting to do for a while now, without the offensive overlap of BI & CJ taking 30 APG, with more defensive comp having Murphy's added length or maybe even Daniels versatility, if there's progression in his offensive game.

Maybe for NO's, Daniels (20), takes an offensive leap over the summer. He'd immediately be a better defensive option than Murray with more versatility 1-4 on rookie scale & all of a sudden Murray's 25-30m, doesn't look as appealing with that option. If Daniels can provide adequate spacing. He & Herb would be less than 20m combined starting, which would offset any financial risk of adding 15m of CJ's 30m to BI's extension.

Agree or disagree, NO's fans see BI as the better more versatile player than Murray but have Murray's value in fit & contract. With CJ not blocking Daniels with his 30m, an offensive leap & CJ dumped for cap space addresses BI's extension/financial risk

CJ + Murray = 60-65m
BI extended 50m, Herb 12m, Daniels 6m = 65-70m

[Whole Truth]

I have more interest in trading BI to get to the #1 pick than Murray.

Up to me Daniels would have continued to start after the games he started with CJ injured

Jonas - Zion - BI - Herb - Daniels +20

Wins over Denver, Minnesota, Kings 2x, Clippers, Mavs, in a 10 game sample. With no bench & all the shooters injured. CJ, Murphy, Jose, Ryan, Nance, all sidelined during those 10 games started.

No back C, PG & shooting outside of BI. Herb has not yet started to shoot like he did to close the year.

[OGSactownballer]

Pel's fans are trying so hard to get a good BI deal but it ain't happening

IMO Pelicans are better off keeping BI & trading CJ. Regardless of their respective trade markets.

CJ is the reason Jonas was let go & he will be the reason BI will be seen & traded as a poor fit.

Book mark the thread. The team that trades for BI will get a better player than the one seen in NO's.

He's averaging less than 60 games a season over his last 7 seasons and want to get paid the max. You will not get much value in a BI trade

Always my point.

It’s not about the talent factor. Of course he has great talent.

But the biggest talent is endurance and availability. Sabonis plays 80+ game per year. BI STARTED HIS CAREER INJURED and had never not had an issue with that.

[BoogieTime]

Not only does Sabonis take precedence over Fox but as for the question if it’s either/or of them:

1. Sabonis doesn’t initiate in the paint and was sought out during the Hali trade as a synergistic fit with Fox

2. Fox needs to get his TS%/efficiency up as primarily a non spacing scorer without great other attributes, otherwise the Kings will have to think long and hard about his next contract. Hopefully it wasn’t just a honeymoon first year under Brown and his efficiency returns to 2023 levels