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Zatzman on Raps current situation

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Zatzman on Raps current situation 

Post#1 » by WuTang_CMB » Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:42 pm

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Which puts teams like the Raptors in a tough spot. They are young and improving, certainly. But simple improvement isn’t enough.

Toronto needs: more shooting, more initiation, more driving, more finishing in the paint, more point-of-attack defense, more rim protection, and more isolation defense. So … a star. A superstar. A megastar. Jayson Tatum would fit the bill. Wembanyama. Players of that nature. Simply recreating those skills in the aggregate won’t allow Toronto to compete with teams that are getting better and better, year over year. That was one of the defining lessons of the end of the Nick Nurse era. (That and relearning Goodhart’s Law.)

There are three ways to acquire a star. Three ways to acquire any player, really. You can trade for him. (Kawhi Leonard!) You can sign him. (DeMarre Car — err.) And you can draft him. When the Raptors traded for Leonard, they were coming off the best season in franchise history. They were ready for another star and had the depth to lose DeMar DeRozan and Jakob Poeltl and still have the institutional memory to support a new contributor. These Raptors need every contributor they have, and more. Were they to trade for an unhappy star (Trae Young?), the outgoing assets would likely be too significant a loss for the Raptors to be a contender. Signing is, unfortunately, out of the question. Which means Toronto almost has to draft its new star. This is nothing new.


So what does that mean for next year? Expect the Raptors to give plenty of minutes to youngsters who may not get that time on contending teams. Perhaps Dick starts to juice the offense (and bleeding points on the other end, given the star conundrum, would be a feature, not a bug). Maybe Toronto even gives a boatload of minutes to whomever it selects at 19. Maybe losing lineups just so happen to keep playing their minutes, game after game. Perhaps small injuries to players like Poeltl or Barnes, the nicks and bumps that always happen, result in a few weeks missed here and there. Maybe Quickley is force-fed pick-and-roll possessions even though he was not particularly successful there last year. Maybe he and Barnes actually develop chemistry together, and the team doesn’t mind the muddy possessions thrown down the drain in pursuit of that goal.

I doubt Toronto actively tanks the season. Not with a roster so young and in need of in-game development. But don’t expect Toronto to take a huge leap forward in 2024-25. The playoffs are exciting, and it’s always fun to dream of your own team playing those high-leverage and high-intensity moments. It happened recently in Toronto, I know. But don’t expect the Raptors to rush things to get back there anytime soon. Toronto still needs so much on the roster to ensure success when that time finally comes. And the best way to acquire those skills is to have (at least) one more year of losing.
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Re: Zatzman on Raps current situation 

Post#2 » by LoveMyRaps » Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:51 pm

The rebuild is off to a terrific start with Scottie, RJ, IQ, and Dick at the helm. Adding another top prospect from next year's stacked draft class would simply be perfect.
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Re: Zatzman on Raps current situation 

Post#3 » by WuTang_CMB » Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:54 pm

LoveMyRaps wrote:The rebuild is off to a terrific start with Scottie, RJ, IQ, and Dick at the helm. Adding another top prospect from next year's stacked draft class would simply be perfect.

and very much needed
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Re: Zatzman on Raps current situation 

Post#4 » by Jerry Lucas » Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:58 pm

Darko mentioned in the interview he did recently that has its own thread, the strength of the next 2 draft classes after this one in 2025 and 2026.

The comments that are getting the most attention from that interview are "we want to be competitive again in 2-3 years instead of 5-6 years," but they also line up with coach Darko's draft comments.

2-3 years from now it will be 2026-27, suggesting that the organization is already thinking about the at least the 2025 draft and possibly 2026 too, as their next realistic chance to get more star talent in the door.
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Re: Zatzman on Raps current situation 

Post#5 » by ArthurVandelay » Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:07 pm

You know what the problem with common sense is?

It’s not that common.

But refreshing to see it starting to show its head a little more.
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Re: Zatzman on Raps current situation 

Post#6 » by Reeko » Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:10 pm

Not sure what Zatzman is going on about, we've got Jakob Poeltl right NOW and we're ready to compete. Draft picks in next year's draft is so overrated, let's just trade for another Poeltl like player and championship here we come. Remember, there is no guarantee that next year's draft pick will be better than Jakob Poeltl or a player of his calibre.
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Re: Zatzman on Raps current situation 

Post#7 » by Tor_Raps » Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:11 pm

ArthurVandelay wrote:You know what the problem with common sense is?

It’s not that common.

But refreshing to see it starting to show its head a little more.


Lol exactly. A lot of us thought it was common sense to tank for Wemby when you actually have control of your own draft pick. BUT nope, lets tank in one of the worst drafts of all time when we don't have control of our own pick.

The process of this front office has been pretty damn stupid for the past few years so let's see where it goes. Pretty sure majority don't have the blind faith that we once did anymore.
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Re: Zatzman on Raps current situation 

Post#8 » by ArthurVandelay » Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:12 pm

Reeko wrote:Not sure what Zatzman is going on about, we've got Jakob Poeltl right NOW and we're ready to compete. Draft picks in next year's draft is so overrated, let's just trade for another Poeltl like player and championship here we come. Remember, there is no guarantee that next year's draft pick will be better than Jakob Poeltl or a player of his calibre.


I can see you mods behind the curtain saying, “no,no, no. That’s not trolling. Watch this!”
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Re: Zatzman on Raps current situation 

Post#9 » by Tor_Raps » Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:13 pm

Reeko wrote:Not sure what Zatzman is going on about, we've got Jakob Poeltl right NOW and we're ready to compete. Draft picks in next year's draft is so overrated, let's just trade for another Poeltl like player and championship here we come. Remember, there is no guarantee that next year's draft pick will be better than Jakob Poeltl or a player of his calibre.


Exactly, getting the 5th pick would be the same as getting the 15th pick next year anyways.

This message was brought you by Thad Young lol.
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Re: Zatzman on Raps current situation 

Post#10 » by mihaic » Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:15 pm

Reeko wrote:Not sure what Zatzman is going on about, we've got Jakob Poeltl right NOW and we're ready to compete. Draft picks in next year's draft is so overrated, let's just trade for another Poeltl like player and championship here we come. Remember, there is no guarantee that next year's draft pick will be better than Jakob Poeltl or a player of his calibre.

Warned for sarcasm ;)
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Re: Zatzman on Raps current situation 

Post#11 » by DelAbbot » Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:16 pm

Reeko wrote:Not sure what Zatzman is going on about, we've got Jakob Poeltl right NOW and we're ready to compete. Draft picks in next year's draft is so overrated, let's just trade for another Poeltl like player and championship here we come. Remember, there is no guarantee that next year's draft pick will be better than Jakob Poeltl or a player of his calibre.


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Re: Zatzman on Raps current situation 

Post#12 » by MainEvent » Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:17 pm

Agree that's why I'm down to deal Poeltl if the 8th or 9th are available or whatever, take a swing at someone with potential there and dip back in in 2025 before we are play-in or playoff bound
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Re: Zatzman on Raps current situation 

Post#13 » by DelAbbot » Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:17 pm

ArthurVandelay wrote:You know what the problem with common sense is?

It’s not that common.

But refreshing to see it starting to show its head a little more.


Common sense is: forget the casual fans, forget the suits, forget the bottom line for next 2 years - tank 2024/2025 and tank 2025/2026
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Re: Zatzman on Raps current situation 

Post#14 » by C_Money » Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:24 pm

Why bring in 33 year old Kelly Olynyk if this is the route they plan on going? My opinion is Masai will make win-now moves this summer. I don’t agree with it but thats what I think will happen.
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Re: Zatzman on Raps current situation 

Post#15 » by Merit » Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:32 pm

Reeko wrote:Not sure what Zatzman is going on about, we've got Jakob Poeltl right NOW and we're ready to compete. Draft picks in next year's draft is so overrated, let's just trade for another Poeltl like player and championship here we come. Remember, there is no guarantee that next year's draft pick will be better than Jakob Poeltl or a player of his calibre.


Let’s trade for another Poeltl like player and sit them out for the season to recoup their injuries. In this case, we crush our depth, are forced to play rookies (who develop). In other words, we stealth tank.
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Re: Zatzman on Raps current situation 

Post#16 » by ArthurVandelay » Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:32 pm

C_Money wrote:Why bring in 33 year old Kelly Olynyk if this is the route they plan on going? My opinion is Masai will make win-now moves this summer. I don’t agree with it but thats what I think will happen.


Right attitude.
Professional.
Has the skill set to play the way the team wants to play.
Wants to be in Toronto.

He’s a transitionary piece who isn’t going to derail the quest for lottery balls.
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Re: Zatzman on Raps current situation 

Post#17 » by duppyy » Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:33 pm

ArthurVandelay wrote:You know what the problem with common sense is?

It’s not that common.

But refreshing to see it starting to show its head a little more.


A vote for Pierre is a vote for common sense
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Re: Zatzman on Raps current situation 

Post#18 » by Indeed » Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:34 pm

MainEvent wrote:Agree that's why I'm down to deal Poeltl if the 8th or 9th are available or whatever, take a swing at someone with potential there and dip back in in 2025 before we are play-in or playoff bound


You sounded like Poeltl is in demand.
Back with the Spurs, only the Raptors and Celtics (seeing him as backup) were interested. I won't be surprised the Spurs isn't interested in taking him back (only Raptors fans think he is the only C available and Spurs would have jump on it).
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Re: Zatzman on Raps current situation 

Post#19 » by ForeverTFC » Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:36 pm

C_Money wrote:Why bring in 33 year old Kelly Olynyk if this is the route they plan on going? My opinion is Masai will make win-now moves this summer. I don’t agree with it but thats what I think will happen.


Masai went up on the podium and said another star needs to emerge, whether they are on this team now or not remains to be seen. He also went on the record to say the rebuild will take time.

They brought in Olynyk for on-court development. He was not bringing many wins to Utah and he won't be brining many wins here.
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Re: Zatzman on Raps current situation 

Post#20 » by Potential » Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:36 pm

We are no where near bad enough to tank with Scottie RJ Quickley Poeltl unless everyone is injured and gets shut down again. We need to find a way to orchestrate a heist on a clueless franchise where we can steal their pick and have them tank for us.

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