Ayton to the Wizards

[Texas Chuck]

So Ayton is a talented player. But unfortunately he hasn't been interested in those things that actually add much value. Just putting up 20/10 has no inherit value. And when a guy doesn't want to defend or run PNR its just hard to justify a max contract to a center.

He's overpaid and thinking he will return multiple picks because he was part of the Dame trade is conflating two things with no relation.

And Kispert is a fine bench shooter. Limited. May not have a role in a playoff rotation. On a 2nd contract of any size is he going to be positive value? I think if I valued Ayton (I don't), I would never let Kispert be the hold up in adding my starting center.

I know we all want value for all our players. But sometimes they really just don't hold much. Again this is just my opinion and I know there are posters in both fanbases who feel I hate their team when I point this out. But this is true across the league. It has nothing to do with them being on your team I promise.

Nobody in this deal is valuable. Kispert might be worth a 2nd or two. Everyone else is a clear negative. So on value the Blazers should toss Washington some 2nds. But I think Washington should just pass instead. They have enough big contracts attached to non-difference makers already.

[BlazersBroncos]

I dont think the value is off really. Just would prefer PDX to key in on moving Simons and Grant. Keep Ayton around and let him walk, then promote whichever big we take in 2024 or 2025 to the starter.

[nate33]

Ayton has a skill set that translates to some impressive stats when given opportunity. But that skill set is one that you need to be way better than he is at it for that to ever be worth that much opportunity on a real competitive team. We saw that with him in Phoenix. He's not good enough to be a focal point on a non tanking team and he's not good enough in (or interested in) the "role player" type things.

POR has to move some salary to duck the tax. No way you can justify that for this team. But they're fans don't want to dump Thybulle - they value him for "defensive culture". Most don't want to dilute any asset return for Grant/Brogdon/Simons by prioritizing salary relief in the deals. They don't want to sell low on Rob Williams. Something has to give if they're going to duck the tax but not prioritize saving money in any deal.

If they move Ayton in a deal like this, they shed some salary on the face of it. And they break it down into easier to move players to shed salary. Kispert is a "meh" young player to add to the mix. They have to weigh this against other moves. It's inevitable they're going to dump salary somehow, just a matter of what move/combo of moves makes the most sense. Inevitably, it's going to cost them "value" sacrificed in some move.

For WAS, sure, why not? Kispert is "meh" and they can feature Ayton enough to try tricking someone into adding him. Particularly next year when he's an expiring. It's not a bad risk to take. They have the money and the opportunity for him (provided they don't take a C at #2 of course).

The Wizards wouldn't include Kispert. If the luxtax savings aren't enough motivation for Portland to unload Ayton, then so be it. This trade just won't happen.

Besides, the inclusion of Kispert doesn't make much sense for Portland if Portland is looking to get their team salary under control. Portland wouldn't be keeping Kispert around at MLE+ money anyhow, so he just doesn't provide any long term value. In short, Kispert is more valuable to Washington than he is to Portland, so his inclusion makes the deal less palatable for both sides.

POR, as things stand right now, wouldn't have trouble keeping Kispert at the MLE beyond next season. The other two salaries they're taking back in this deal (Holmes, Bagley) would be off the books. Brogdon would be as well.

Fair enough.

But still, the Wizards aren't doing this if they're giving up actual assets to make it happen.

I actually don't think they would do this at all. The Wizards are in total rebuild mode and will certainly plan to tank for one more full season, if not two. (Remember, they have a top 8 protected pick owed to NY. They'll probably tank through the 2025-26 season unless their young players get too good to facilitate tanking.) They'd rather draft and develop a center of the future rather than pay a ton of money for a 26-year-old.

[AaronB]

Ayton is criminally underrated on here. He was a 25 and 13 guy last 20 games and he messed up the tank. He's not a salary dump, he's the key piece of the dame trade. I'm not trading him for contract relief garbage. Let him average 21 and 12 next season and then move him for picks.

The Blazers finished the season 2-15, so he did not mess up the tank that badly.

[nate33]

Ayton is criminally underrated on here. He was a 25 and 13 guy last 20 games and he messed up the tank. He's not a salary dump, he's the key piece of the dame trade. I'm not trading him for contract relief garbage. Let him average 21 and 12 next season and then move him for picks.

The Blazers finished the season 2-15, so he did not mess up the tank that badly.

Which is it?

Is Ayton good? That would screw up the tank.

Or does Ayton suck? Which means the Wizards shouldn't want to acquire him at pay him $34M a year.

[JRoy]

Ayton is criminally underrated on here. He was a 25 and 13 guy last 20 games and he messed up the tank. He's not a salary dump, he's the key piece of the dame trade. I'm not trading him for contract relief garbage. Let him average 21 and 12 next season and then move him for picks.

The Blazers finished the season 2-15, so he did not mess up the tank that badly.

Which is it?

Is Ayton good? That would screw up the tank.

Or does Ayton suck? Which means the Wizards shouldn't want to acquire him at pay him $34M a year.

The answer is yes. And no.

Ayton is a strange player. Shies from contact but grabs rebounds, pretty solid mid range shooter but hesitates pulling the trigger on an open catch until the defense comes.

[gswhoops]

The Blazers finished the season 2-15, so he did not mess up the tank that badly.

Which is it?

Is Ayton good? That would screw up the tank.

Or does Ayton suck? Which means the Wizards shouldn't want to acquire him at pay him $34M a year.

The answer is yes. And no.

Ayton is a strange player. Shies from contact but grabs rebounds, pretty solid mid range shooter but hesitates pulling the trigger on an open catch until the defense comes.

I think the thing with Ayton is that he's good, but he's not as good as he thinks he is, and because he thinks he's a star he's not really willing to do the dirty work that defines the center position in the NBA outside of true superstar offensive centers like Jokic and Embiid.

[JRoy]

Which is it?

Is Ayton good? That would screw up the tank.

Or does Ayton suck? Which means the Wizards shouldn't want to acquire him at pay him $34M a year.

The answer is yes. And no.

Ayton is a strange player. Shies from contact but grabs rebounds, pretty solid mid range shooter but hesitates pulling the trigger on an open catch until the defense comes.

I think the thing with Ayton is that he's good, but he's not as good as he thinks he is, and because he thinks he's a star he's not really willing to do the dirty work that defines the center position in the NBA outside of true superstar offensive centers like Jokic and Embiid.

That might be part of it.

[louc1970]

Add the value of swapping 14 and 26. Washington gets a center in Ayton, Risacher at 3, get Collier at 14.

[Myth]

Add the value of swapping 14 and 26. Washington gets a center in Ayton, Risacher at 3, get Collier at 14.

Blazers have no business downgrading picks. Heck, there are now rumors Blazers are aiming to get a 2nd top 10 pick.

[Wizenheimer]

as a Blazer fan, I really want the Blazers to dump Ayton. Trading for him was stupid. He's an empty-calorie player in my view

[the_process]

Paul Reed to Portland
Deandre Ayton to Utah
John Collins to Philly

[Myth]

Paul Reed to Portland
Deandre Ayton to Utah
John Collins to Philly

I’m not a believer in purely dumping Ayton, so pass. Taking a lesser, cheaper player is the goal, but not this level of a downgrade. My mind may shift if we draft Clingan and he shows promise. Though OP shows at least a little talent coming back.

[R-DAWG]

Disgusting for the Wizards. No need to take Ayton for no comp.

With Atyon your basically getting a free look at a 26 year old who showed some real promise early on but has regressed over the past few years. In my opinion, this is the kind of buy low opportunities that the Wizards should be rolling the dice on. Best case he rebounds to the guy he was in 2021, worst case it's an expiring contract next summer.

Not sure that I would throw Kispert in the deal, but I see the rationale of rolling the dice here.

[daoneandonly]

Wizards already have 2 massively overpaid guysvwho have zero self awareness in how good/bad they are. Adding a 3rd seems rather fruitless

[Myth]

Wizards already have 2 massively overpaid guysvwho have zero self awareness in how good/bad they are. Adding a 3rd seems rather fruitless

Could be a fun experience

[daoneandonly]

Wizards already have 2 massively overpaid guysvwho have zero self awareness in how good/bad they are. Adding a 3rd seems rather fruitless

Could be a fun experience

Ha, as someone who despises the abortion and car jacking capital of America, I'd be happy to see it