2024 Draft Thread - Part II

[J-Ves]

Oh the Spurs want Risacher that bad? Maybe we should just take him then

[Dat2U]

I understand Dat2U's argument for drafting Dillingham.

It's very much like the 2011 draft (without Kyrie) where the top prospects were guys like Derrick Williams, Enes Kanter, Valanciunas and Tristan Thompson. I remember Dat2U recommending that we draft Kemba Walker because he was clearly a good player in all respects except being so small. It turns out, Kemba was a much better choice than Jan Vesely (and many of the other top prospects), even if Kemba was never really the driver of a winning basketball.

I feel like Dillingham is the Kemba Walker of this draft. While other guys near the top of the draft have bust potential, it's a pretty sure bet that Dillingham will be a productive NBA player, albeit not necessarily a winning one.

All that said, I do not want the next Kemba Walker. I'd rather take on a higher risk of a bust in exchange for the upside of a guy who can be a reliable starter on a good team.

Kemba could have had success in playoffs ... he was just on a bad roster. As a 2nd or 3rd option in his prime he would have been absolutely fine.

In retrospect, Klay should have been the pick. Him & Wall would have been lethal.

What's crazy is that both Jimmy & Kawhi were in the same draft! I'm not sure either would have developed to level they did in DC although I'm sure both would still have been terrific picks.

[doclinkin]

Rumor mill so far:

*As SAS (and Wemby in particular) is set on Risacher, they are likely to approach first ATL and then us to trade up and secure his pick.
*ATL has not worked out Sarr yet, but we have which may demonstrate interest on our part. We have also worked out Clingan and Williams.
*ATL is also rumored to be very keen on Clingan, who has other suitors (e.g. POR and MEM).

Of course this may be all smoke screens, but if these rumors were true, this is how the top of draft might go: ATL trades #1 to SAS and gets #4 plus their 2025 1st back. At #1 SAS pick Risacher and at #2 WAS picks Sarr. ATL is then hoping HOU passes on Clingan at #3 so they can pick him at #4.

What if: Spurs and Atlanta trade. Hawks Pick Zacc for Spurs.
We pick Clingan knowing Atlanta wants him. We extort picks and player capital from SA and ATL both. If no deal then we have a fine defensive center. We worked him out, we like what he brings.
What sort of deal could we get from Atlanta and the Spurs to get in on the action?
LOL Maybe the Hawks fold and trade us Zacc for Clingan, figuring they have no real use for him. Outmaneuvered. Wiz do the Spurs trade.

[AFM]

What we have to do now is trade up to 1 so we can trade back with SAS. This is called giga brain thinking.

[doclinkin]

It's very much like the 2011 draft (without Kyrie) where the top prospects were guys like Derrick Williams, Enes Kanter, Valanciunas and Tristan Thompson. I remember Dat2U recommending that we draft Kemba Walker because he was clearly a good player in all respects except being so small. It turns out, Kemba was a much better choice than Jan Vesely (and many of the other top prospects), even if Kemba was never really the driver of a winning basketball.

Ha! I wanted Kawhi in the 2011 draft. Loved his D. But y'all argued that he couldn't shoot. This year I want another elite defender Castle. And y'all arguing that he can't shoot. Castle will learn to shoot just like Leonard did..

Ha! Went looking for yours and Dat's. Found mine:

Re: 2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3...
0
Post#11 » by doclinkin » Sat May 14, 2011 3:43 am

Kawhi Leonard will have a solid NBA career as a glue guy. He'll make his squad better when he's on the court and will add positive intensity in the locker room. He's one of those players who both understands the game and loves it with joy and determination, thus is a lock to continue to improve. He'd fit any Larry Brown team and become a team captain for him, whether starting or off the bench, since he plays defense with intuitive intelligence and dedication.

Physically, he's got the profile of a player who can rebound outsized to his position. Solid torso, no neck, long arms, wide chest, low center of gravity. Whether Paul Millsapp or Ron Artest, this sort of morphotype tends to be able to continue to show the same success at the next level that they demonstrated in college, holding their position on the block, sealing their man with a cement solid wall, but still rebounding outside their area with long arms and leverage.

What's better, as a small forward he's the best kind of tweener on defense. He'll be able to hold his ground against bigger players, is skinnyish now relative to his frame, though his frame is solid already. Which is to say he'll take weight well, and since his game is not based on above the rim balletics he can add strength anyway he wants. And those arms are practically Biyombo in length. Ridiculously long. He'll be able to challenge shots, steal, and surprise players with his length. He's the tweener that plays bigger than his position on defense.

On this squad, well, there's no immediate net positive or great synergy since he has no developed outside shot. His form has improved with practice apparently, but it's still deliberate and slow, not reflexive. And in games this year his form was pretty deliberate and slow (in addition to looking awkward). A big man like Enes can get away with a catapult-slow release, since his man will be more reluctant to chase him too far from the paint, but a SF benefits from a gunslingers quickdraw since their defensive match-ups are quite often both long and quick. Needs improvement an confidence. His decent FT% though suggests he won't suffer from the 'big hand curse'. Never understood that. MJ had hands like garbage can lids and dude could shoot the ball with finesse.

Still, the fact that Kawhi may take a minute to improve and won't account for immediate instant jump in the standings only means still we get decent draft position next year, when the draft may contain that difference maker.

In short: Kawhi Leonard builds the bench, adds good chemistry, improves defense, adds BBall IQ, good passing, toughness, the useful sort of athleticism: utilitarian more than highlight reel. He's Trevor Booker as an actual small forward. He adds no great impact in the win/loss column this year, though he passes the championship eyetest: you can easily see him earning playoff minutes on a championship team during his career. If we're stocking the bench with depth of toughness and versatility on defense, then we've got a player in Kawhi. If all we get this year is more foundation players, that's as much as you can ask.

I wouldn't mind trading up from 18 to pick him. Wouldn't complain if that's the best we got from a 6th pick if the lotto balls fell wrong. Would be happy to trade back and take him if we get bids-for-value on a 4th pick. Most drafts are full of reaches and hopefuls and upside guys, most of whom never pan out. If you can get a sure thing who will play a solid career, I'm happy. I'd be more comfortable taking Kawhi over a 'defender' like Jan Vesely who already can't rebound the ball in the Euroleague.

Kawhi Leonard is a baller. He can play on my team.

[DCZards]

^^^Well done doc!

[payitforward]

If Risacher or Clingan goes #1 and we are picking at #2 with Sarr still on the board, I wonder if Houston would offer anything to move up and land Sarr themselves? He makes sense for them because he can share the floor defensively with Sengun.

In that scenario, we move to to #3, pick up a little something extra, and still grab Sheppard.

That something extra could be a guy like Whitmore or Eason, or maybe a future FRP.

Whitmore or (especially) Eason would be a whole lot to give up for the difference between Sarr & whoever they'd take at 3. Truth be told, I'd rather have Eason than either the #2 or the #3 pick.

A protected future FRP might work however.

[payitforward]

It's very much like the 2011 draft (without Kyrie) where the top prospects were guys like Derrick Williams, Enes Kanter, Valanciunas and Tristan Thompson. I remember Dat2U recommending that we draft Kemba Walker because he was clearly a good player in all respects except being so small. It turns out, Kemba was a much better choice than Jan Vesely (and many of the other top prospects), even if Kemba was never really the driver of a winning basketball.

Ha! I wanted Kawhi in the 2011 draft. Loved his D. But y'all argued that he couldn't shoot. This year I want another elite defender Castle. And y'all arguing that he can't shoot. Castle will learn to shoot just like Leonard did..

Ha! Went looking for yours and Dat's. Found mine:

Re: 2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3...
0
Post#11 » by doclinkin » Sat May 14, 2011 3:43 am

Kawhi Leonard will have a solid NBA career as a glue guy. He'll make his squad better when he's on the court and will add positive intensity in the locker room. He's one of those players who both understands the game and loves it with joy and determination, thus is a lock to continue to improve. He'd fit any Larry Brown team and become a team captain for him, whether starting or off the bench, since he plays defense with intuitive intelligence and dedication.

Physically, he's got the profile of a player who can rebound outsized to his position. Solid torso, no neck, long arms, wide chest, low center of gravity. Whether Paul Millsapp or Ron Artest, this sort of morphotype tends to be able to continue to show the same success at the next level that they demonstrated in college, holding their position on the block, sealing their man with a cement solid wall, but still rebounding outside their area with long arms and leverage.

What's better, as a small forward he's the best kind of tweener on defense. He'll be able to hold his ground against bigger players, is skinnyish now relative to his frame, though his frame is solid already. Which is to say he'll take weight well, and since his game is not based on above the rim balletics he can add strength anyway he wants. And those arms are practically Biyombo in length. Ridiculously long. He'll be able to challenge shots, steal, and surprise players with his length. He's the tweener that plays bigger than his position on defense.

On this squad, well, there's no immediate net positive or great synergy since he has no developed outside shot. His form has improved with practice apparently, but it's still deliberate and slow, not reflexive. And in games this year his form was pretty deliberate and slow (in addition to looking awkward). A big man like Enes can get away with a catapult-slow release, since his man will be more reluctant to chase him too far from the paint, but a SF benefits from a gunslingers quickdraw since their defensive match-ups are quite often both long and quick. Needs improvement an confidence. His decent FT% though suggests he won't suffer from the 'big hand curse'. Never understood that. MJ had hands like garbage can lids and dude could shoot the ball with finesse.

Still, the fact that Kawhi may take a minute to improve and won't account for immediate instant jump in the standings only means still we get decent draft position next year, when the draft may contain that difference maker.

In short: Kawhi Leonard builds the bench, adds good chemistry, improves defense, adds BBall IQ, good passing, toughness, the useful sort of athleticism: utilitarian more than highlight reel. He's Trevor Booker as an actual small forward. He adds no great impact in the win/loss column this year, though he passes the championship eyetest: you can easily see him earning playoff minutes on a championship team during his career. If we're stocking the bench with depth of toughness and versatility on defense, then we've got a player in Kawhi. If all we get this year is more foundation players, that's as much as you can ask.

I wouldn't mind trading up from 18 to pick him. Wouldn't complain if that's the best we got from a 6th pick if the lotto balls fell wrong. Would be happy to trade back and take him if we get bids-for-value on a 4th pick. Most drafts are full of reaches and hopefuls and upside guys, most of whom never pan out. If you can get a sure thing who will play a solid career, I'm happy. I'd be more comfortable taking Kawhi over a 'defender' like Jan Vesely who already can't rebound the ball in the Euroleague.

Kawhi Leonard is a baller. He can play on my team.

Well done!!

[SUPERBALLMAN]

I like this dude Hoop Intellect, he does a really nice job breaking down all of the prospects.

Watch on YouTube

[payitforward]

Didn't know where to put this, but Jerry West died today.

There are the greats, & there are the best of the greats. & then there is Jerry West.

[DCZards]

I like this dude Hoop Intellect, he does a really nice job breaking down all of the prospects.

Watch on YouTube

I like this guy’s short, rapid-fire analysis of players. Found it interesting that he has Holland and Dillingham at 2 & 3 respectively. Sarr at #1

[SUPERBALLMAN]

If Sarr is the pick at 2...

We essentially are putting in place our frontcourt with C Vukcevic age 21, C/PF Sarr age 19, PF/SF Avdija age 23, SG/SF Coulibaly age 19. In addition to a current potential foundation including C/PF Bagley age 25, and PF Baldwin age 21.

My focus for the rest of the draft would be the backcourt, and my targets are PG/SG Bub Carrington age 18 and SG Cam Christie age 18, to add to PG Poole age 24. In addition to a current potential foundation including SG/SF Kispert age 25 and PG/SG Butler age 23.

Christie is pretty consistently mocked early 2nd round, occasionally & lately more frequently late 1st, so he would be slotted to our pick at 26.

Getting Carrington will be the trickier one. He's been regularly mocked lately mid 1st. So this would require acquiring another pick, and the likely deal would involve Kuzma. The trade scenario I've been on is Kuzma + 51 to Sacramento for PF Vezenkov, SG Duarte, 13 & 45. I've seen other trade proposals that are a bit more beneficial to the Wizards, and the Wizards reportedly want 2 1st rounders. But this trade benefits both teams, the Kings have been linked to Kuzma, and this allows them to keep players like Barnes, Huerter, Mitchell, Lyles for their win-now aspirations. It provides them with an outlet for Vezenkov, who reportedly wants out of Sacramento. The Wizards benefit from 2 expiring contracts to get off Kuzma's money sooner to focus on long term financials, the pick at 13 and moving up in the 2nd round to 45.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/8784495

At 45 I'd be looking to add a Wing with offensive upside... My primary target (assuming Dadiet is long gone by now) is Trentyn Flowers age 19. Others I would be looking at include Nikola Djurisic age 20, Justin Edwards age 20, and Jaylen Wells age 20.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

With this outcome, the roster looks like this:

Vukcevic, Bagley, Holmes
Sarr, Vezenkov, Baldwin
Avdija, Kispert, Flowers
Coulibaly, Duarte, Christie
Poole, Butler, Carrington


Then, next draft we look to draft top 5 ...

NBA DRAFTROOM:

1 Cooper Flagg PF – Duke – HT: 6-8 – WT: 200 – WING: NA – C’24 – Flagg is a unique prospect; a dominant defensive player who has a massive impact on the game, even when he’s not scoring the ball. He’s a complete offensive player who can dribble, pass and shoot, but doesn’t necessarily project as a first option or an elite scorer.

2 Nolan Traore PG – France – HT: 6-4 – WT: 184 – WING: 6-6 – Int.06 – An elite level point guard prospect who can do it all, pass the rock, push the pace, hit the 3 and defend on the ball and excels at getting in the lane and finishing. Has really been coming on strong as a prospect and flying up the 2025 draft rankings.

3 Dylan Harper SG – Rutgers – HT: 6-5 – WT: 190 – WING: NA – C’24 – Harper plays with advanced skill and feel for the game. He isn’t an elite athlete but is a big time offensive talent who just knows how to play and how to win. He’s an alpha dawg who could challenge for the top pick in the 2025 draft.

4 Airious “Ace” Bailey SF – Rutgers – HT: 6-9 – WT: 200 – WING: NA – C’24 – Ace has as much upside as any player in his class. He has awesome size for a wing and big time ability. He’s a tough shot taker and a tough shot maker – but needs to improve his shot selection and not fall in love with the jumper.

5 VJ Edgecombe SF – Baylor (Bahamas) – HT: 6-5 – WT: 188 – WING: 6-6 – C’24 – An elite talent at the SG position with all the physical tools and intangibles to be great. Edgecombe glides on the court and is the type of athlete that is hard to look away from. He gets above the rim effortlessly, plays with a ton of intensity and seems to have all the intangibles that make the great ones great.

[dobrojim]

I like what I have read on Christie. I would add, don't sleep on Kolek.

[FarBeyondDriven]

This regime clearly believes in Poole and the only way to make it work with him is to protect him defensively and free him up so he has more off-ball opportunities off movement. Stephon Castle is the perfect player to do so. Let Coulibaly keep developing into a 3 and D Klay/Mikal at SF. Let Avdija have his sets as the offensive initiator and also playing off-ball as he's earned it and he starts at PF.

Now here's where the fun begins. You send Kuzma and #25 to CLE for Allen and #20. This addresses huge needs for both teams as they can't run it back with Allen and Mobley and Kuzma shouldn't be getting minutes on a rebuilding team over Avdija and Vukcevic. With the #20 pick you draft Dadiet to give Coulibaly a french buddy.

Seriously, is this not a potentially fun team to look forward to? And let's say none of these players develops. Well, now you've got a high pick in a loaded draft! But honestly, I think if the young guys get a little better and Castle is the real deal, you could be flirting with a play-in.

Castle
Poole-Kispert
Coulibaly-Dadiet
Avdija-Vukcevic
Allen-Bagley

[gesa2]

This regime clearly believes in Poole and the only way to make it work with him is to protect him defensively and free him up so he has more off-ball opportunities off movement.

Disagree from the get go, sorry. I like how the org speaks positively and works to help Poole. That doesn’t mean he should have any influence on the team we develop around him.

[DCZards]

This regime clearly believes in Poole and the only way to make it work with him is to protect him defensively and free him up so he has more off-ball opportunities off movement. Stephon Castle is the perfect player to do so. Let Coulibaly keep developing into a 3 and D Klay/Mikal at SF. Let Avdija have his sets as the offensive initiator and also playing off-ball as he's earned it and he starts at PF.

Now here's where the fun begins. You send Kuzma and #25 to CLE for Allen and #20. This addresses huge needs for both teams as they can't run it back with Allen and Mobley and Kuzma shouldn't be getting minutes on a rebuilding team over Avdija and Vukcevic. With the #20 pick you draft Dadiet to give Coulibaly a french buddy.

Seriously, is this not a potentially fun team to look forward to? And let's say none of these players develops. Well, now you've got a high pick in a loaded draft! But honestly, I think if the young guys get a little better and Castle is the real deal, you could be flirting with a play-in.

Castle
Poole-Kispert
Coulibaly-Dadiet
Avdija-Vukcevic
Allen-Bagley

Thanks for posting farbeyonddriven. Don’t necessarily agree with all of your ideas (like the drafting of Dadiet) but overall your approach to team building is sound.

[closg00]

If Sarr is the pick at 2...

We essentially are putting in place our frontcourt with C Vukcevic age 21, C/PF Sarr age 19, PF/SF Avdija age 23, SG/SF Coulibaly age 19. In addition to a current potential foundation including C/PF Bagley age 25, and PF Baldwin age 21.
>snip<

Dunno how how-much weight Vuk will pack-on over the next few years, but I'm not sure I would pencil-in Vuk at C, he is horrific on D and will have to get coached-up, he may be better suited as a stretch 4. We need some beef/strength in the middle eventually, I would love to get Edey on this team somehow...

[J-Ves]

Regarding discussion about Poole and Vuk…

Poole needs the ball in his hands and he needs to play with plus defenders. If he’s part of our future he’s an on ball PG

Vuk’s only path forward is at center. His foot speed doesn’t allow him to defend on the perimeter. There’s hope he can get stronger and become a quality rebounder/drop coverage guy

[dckingsfan]

I would like Castle as well but... in a trade down scenario.

But I think it would be

Poole (because he will be untradeable without attaching assets for some time); Butler
Castle
Deni
Bilal; Baldwin
Rookie (this year or next or an FA); Vuk (and I am not necessarily sold on him moving forward as a starting C, but he is still very young).

Then

Kuz, Holmes, Bagley, Kispert become trade assets and Davis just disappears. And eventually Poole becomes a trade asset (starting him will hopefully make that sooner rather than later).

If we are trading down, then we would assume we would have at least two more rookies this off-season.

[dckingsfan]

Vukcevic, Bagley, Holmes
Sarr, Vezenkov, Baldwin
Avdija, Kispert, Flowers
Coulibaly, Duarte, Christie
Poole, Butler, Carrington

I think I have a beef with this. Coulibaly is going to be a PF, IMO. Vuk isn't really a starting C at this point either. And Kispert has shown he is better off at SG.

Thoughts?